Mule deer
- Thread starter Riley7/08
- Start date
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-18 AT 10:37AM (MST)[p]Yes, we have did that before on the points side. Apply for high demand or no tag unit 1st choice. Then try the one you want for second choice.
Edit to say:
If you draw on random side as second choice you dont use points.
You may want to look at last years info/odds to get an idea what side of the draw you want to put in for.
Edit to say:
If you draw on random side as second choice you dont use points.
You may want to look at last years info/odds to get an idea what side of the draw you want to put in for.
wytex
Very Active Member
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- 1,143
If you draw a random tag as your first choice you lose those PP, apply carefully as you have a chance to draw any tag in the random draw, don't put an area as your first choice you don't want to hunt.
Many regions have general tags that can be drawn with 0 PP.Apply for one of those as your second choice, you might pick up a tag in the leftover draw also.
Many regions have general tags that can be drawn with 0 PP.Apply for one of those as your second choice, you might pick up a tag in the leftover draw also.
Like Wytex mentioned, you have to be very careful putting in for a first choice unit to keep your PPS and a second choice so you can hunt it instead. In Wyoming everyone, regardless of PP totals, goes into the PP Draw first for their first choice. All those that don't draw tags then go into the Random Draw where there is always a chance at a tag since PPs aren't used and if you draw that tag in it you lose your PPs. That's why he said to never put a unit down as a first choice that you wouldn't want to or couldn't hunt because of dates, etc. I read of one guy that did that and he drew the only random tag that was offered in his first choice unit. That tag had different season dates than the second choice he had planned to hunt and he already had his vacation time set with the company he worked for for that second choice. They wouldn't let him change his vacation days, so he lost the big license fee, his PPs and the money he had invested in them, and didn't get to hunt at all, so be careful!
grosventrehunter
Very Active Member
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- 1,806
I could be wrong, but is there not a few areas that don't issue random tags? I thought 130 was one of them.
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-18 AT 06:38PM (MST)[p]>I could be wrong, but is
>there not a few areas
>that don't issue random tags?
>I thought 130 was one
>of them.
You're correct in that there were 5 units last year that had no Type 1 tags in the Random Draw. They were 101,105,116,119,and 130. There were quite a few others that only had 1 or 2 tags in that draw.
>there not a few areas
>that don't issue random tags?
>I thought 130 was one
>of them.
You're correct in that there were 5 units last year that had no Type 1 tags in the Random Draw. They were 101,105,116,119,and 130. There were quite a few others that only had 1 or 2 tags in that draw.
grosventrehunter
Very Active Member
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Thanks top, I believe if he just applies for one of those tags he "should" be ok drawing his second choice.
>Thanks top, I believe if he
>just applies for one of
>those tags he "should" be
>ok drawing his second choice.
>
The problem with that is that a member on another thread recently said that the G&F has now set up the application setup to not even allow a person with no PPs to apply for one of those units where no random tags are available. I haven't gone into my account to do a dry run and try to see if that's a fact, but it would be simple to do and see if that's true and then just leave the system without applying if it will let you do it.
>just applies for one of
>those tags he "should" be
>ok drawing his second choice.
>
The problem with that is that a member on another thread recently said that the G&F has now set up the application setup to not even allow a person with no PPs to apply for one of those units where no random tags are available. I haven't gone into my account to do a dry run and try to see if that's a fact, but it would be simple to do and see if that's true and then just leave the system without applying if it will let you do it.
LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-18 AT 02:13AM (MST)[p]
You can apply for any open hunt, regardless of points and whether there ends up being a random license. The computer doesn't know if there will be random licenses because the nr quotas are constantly changing. The only point in time where there is a hard nr quota for a given hunt is when the nr quota is split 75/25 for the LO drawing. After that initial split the Special draw quota can change depending on what LO's draw and after that, the Regular quotas change depending on how the Special draw went.
You can also look right at the demand reports and see there is no restriction.
You can apply for any open hunt, regardless of points and whether there ends up being a random license. The computer doesn't know if there will be random licenses because the nr quotas are constantly changing. The only point in time where there is a hard nr quota for a given hunt is when the nr quota is split 75/25 for the LO drawing. After that initial split the Special draw quota can change depending on what LO's draw and after that, the Regular quotas change depending on how the Special draw went.
You can also look right at the demand reports and see there is no restriction.
>You can apply for any open
>hunt, regardless of points and
>whether there ends up being
>a random license. The computer
>doesn't know if there will
>be random licenses because the
>nr quotas are constantly changing.
>The only point in time
>where there is a hard
>nr quota for a given
>hunt is when the nr
>quota is split 75/25 for
>the LO drawing. After that
>initial split the Special draw
>quota can change depending on
>what LO's draw and after
>that, the Regular quotas change
>depending on how the Special
>draw went.
>
>You can also look right at
>the demand reports and see
>there is no restriction.
All I'm telling you is what the guy stated in a thread recently when we were talking about quotas that are so low that there is never a random tag available. I have no idea if the G&F has it set up that way now, but it would make sense if there is only one or two tags in the PP Draws that would go to a max PP holder and the guy would have no chance in either PP Drawing or the Random if it had no tags.
>hunt, regardless of points and
>whether there ends up being
>a random license. The computer
>doesn't know if there will
>be random licenses because the
>nr quotas are constantly changing.
>The only point in time
>where there is a hard
>nr quota for a given
>hunt is when the nr
>quota is split 75/25 for
>the LO drawing. After that
>initial split the Special draw
>quota can change depending on
>what LO's draw and after
>that, the Regular quotas change
>depending on how the Special
>draw went.
>
>You can also look right at
>the demand reports and see
>there is no restriction.
All I'm telling you is what the guy stated in a thread recently when we were talking about quotas that are so low that there is never a random tag available. I have no idea if the G&F has it set up that way now, but it would make sense if there is only one or two tags in the PP Draws that would go to a max PP holder and the guy would have no chance in either PP Drawing or the Random if it had no tags.
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-18
>AT 03:41?AM (MST)
>
>Thanks for all the info guys.
>I'm wanting to try region
>C but don't want to
>use my points for it.
>
Inbhunter-
FYI- In 2017, there was a 39.34% chance of drawing a Region C General tag as a first choice in the NR PP draw, with zero points. In the NR random draw, there were 933 first choice applicants for 397 available tags. There were no tags available for second choice applicants in either draw.
T
>AT 03:41?AM (MST)
>
>Thanks for all the info guys.
>I'm wanting to try region
>C but don't want to
>use my points for it.
>
Inbhunter-
FYI- In 2017, there was a 39.34% chance of drawing a Region C General tag as a first choice in the NR PP draw, with zero points. In the NR random draw, there were 933 first choice applicants for 397 available tags. There were no tags available for second choice applicants in either draw.
T
Riley7/08
Active Member
- Messages
- 166
LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-18 AT 06:30PM (MST)[p]I'll pay a little extra money to get a tag and gain a point, so I have to pick a unit I can't draw in the special draw with 7 points so I can draw region c as a 2nd choice. What units do you guys think I absolutely have no chance at in the special draw as a first choice ?
LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-18 AT 07:04PM (MST)[p]Look at the pp demand report, it will have license quota and 1st choice apps. Just remember, everybody that didn't draw in the op side drops to the random draw for the 25% and your 1st choice is still valid. You could draw in the random with your 1st choice, a stretch but it is possible. Look at the random demand report to see that 25% quota and how many remaining 1st choice guys are there. Then, use that random report to see how many licenses remain after the 1st choice guy's are done and will be available for the 2nd choice apps. Compare that remainder to the 2nd choice apps to get your rough 2nd choice odds.
LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-18 AT 08:24PM (MST)[p]>Oh boy. I thought I
>understood the WY draw process
>until I read this post!
> Good thing I don't
>have enough points to worry
>about it!!
The WY draws are really not that difficult if you just take your time and read what Bob said. PP draws are held first for 75% of the total tags for each unit. The Regular Draw gets 60% and the Special Draw gets 40% of those tags. After those draws are done all the people that didn't draw their first choice go into the Random Draw for the remaining 25% of the tags and no PPs are used in it, but if you draw in that one you still lose your PPs since it was your first choice. Then if you still didn't draw you have a chance to draw your second choice, but only if there are still tags left and that is where you have to look closely at what Bob said to see if there are.
>understood the WY draw process
>until I read this post!
> Good thing I don't
>have enough points to worry
>about it!!
The WY draws are really not that difficult if you just take your time and read what Bob said. PP draws are held first for 75% of the total tags for each unit. The Regular Draw gets 60% and the Special Draw gets 40% of those tags. After those draws are done all the people that didn't draw their first choice go into the Random Draw for the remaining 25% of the tags and no PPs are used in it, but if you draw in that one you still lose your PPs since it was your first choice. Then if you still didn't draw you have a chance to draw your second choice, but only if there are still tags left and that is where you have to look closely at what Bob said to see if there are.
rocky2track
Active Member
- Messages
- 316
OP,
Check out area 101 in Region W... Maybe it could be your sacrificial first pick.
Check out area 101 in Region W... Maybe it could be your sacrificial first pick.
Joe2Kool
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,744
I studied it a bit more and understand. Just make your first choice a tag you can't draw with PP's that does not have tags in the random draw, like 101 that R2T suggested below.
One question, how can you tell if a unit will have zero tags in the random draw before applying? If I understand, tag allocation can change year-to-year. Just because it had zero the previous year does not mean it will have zero this year.
Thanks guys.
One question, how can you tell if a unit will have zero tags in the random draw before applying? If I understand, tag allocation can change year-to-year. Just because it had zero the previous year does not mean it will have zero this year.
Thanks guys.
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