NR moose dilemma

MuddyBoots · Feb 8, 2018

LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-18 AT 03:06PM (MST)[p]Currently sitting on 9 moose points and I'm at a crossroads of whither or not to keep in the game given the $150 bonus points now and the nearly $2,000 tag IF I'm lucky enough to draw. I got out of the Montana sheep, moose, and goat game when they changed it a few years ago and just flushed those points away. Best case scenario, I'm only half way to a decent tag right now, and that's only if point creep wasn't a factor! I'm sure there's a thousand other guys in the same boat. Seriously should've just done a Canadian hunt all those years ago with the same money I'll have had invested in the Wyoming system.

TOPGUN · Feb 8, 2018

I'd either bail or see if you can draw a cow tag in one or two of the units where your 9 PPs might be good enough! No way would I keep putting in the money for points, especially along with the huge license fee they have increased it to when you only have 9 PPs.

WapitiBob · Feb 8, 2018

Nr points for 2018;

9, 464
10, 462
11, 447
12, 472
13, 537
14, 653
15, 616
16, 547
17, 418
18, 274
19, 42
20, 22
21, 7
22, 7
23, 3

oilcan · Feb 8, 2018

Well that pretty much answers that I think I'd be out.

rocky2track · Feb 8, 2018

>LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-18
>AT 03:06?PM (MST)
>
>Currently sitting on 9 moose points
>and I'm at a crossroads
>of whither or not to
>keep in the game given
>the $150 bonus points now
>and the nearly $2,000 tag
>IF I'm lucky enough to
>draw. I got out
>of the Montana sheep, moose,
>and goat game when they
>changed it a few years
>ago and just flushed those
>points away. Best case
>scenario, I'm only half way
>to a decent tag right
>now, and that's only if
>point creep wasn't a factor!
> I'm sure there's a
>thousand other guys in the
>same boat. Seriously should've
>just done a Canadian hunt
>all those years ago with
>the same money I'll have
>had invested in the Wyoming
>system.

I remember a time about 10-12 years ago or so when it was easier for nonresidents to draw certain areas than residents. How quickly things change. I PM'd you. Check your inbox...

MuddyBoots · Feb 8, 2018

Holy smokes! Guess I was off by only a few thousand applicants ahead of me. Kind of discouraging to see that. Curious how many will say screw it and bail. Sent a message back to you rocky2track.

mdbrown · Feb 8, 2018

I'm at 13 nr
Seems like when I started it took 5-6 to draw average unit if I remember correctly.

Every year I am still 2-3 years behind.
Probably going to be out. If I could realistically draw in 4-5 more years I might stay in , but I don't think us with 13 points will ever catch up

TOPGUN · Feb 8, 2018

>I'm at 13 nr
>Seems like when I started it
>took 5-6 to draw average
>unit if I remember correctly.
>
>
>Every year I am still 2-3
>years behind.
>Probably going to be out.
>If I could realistically draw
>in 4-5 more years I
>might stay in , but
>I don't think us with
>13 points will ever catch
>up

I would definitely be looking at a cow tag if I had 13 NR PPs, rather than dropping out completely like you're thinking about doing.

rocky2track · Feb 8, 2018

LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-18 AT 08:53PM (MST)[p]>I'm at 13 nr
>Seems like when I started it
>took 5-6 to draw average
>unit if I remember correctly.
>
>
>Every year I am still 2-3
>years behind.
>Probably going to be out.
>If I could realistically draw
>in 4-5 more years I
>might stay in , but
>I don't think us with
>13 points will ever catch
>up

Research your 4-5 yr goal..

Homer · Feb 8, 2018

wtf wants to shoot a cow???....even with zero points...

have at the cows topgun...they are all yours

mdbrown · Feb 8, 2018

Not into cow hunting
I will do plenty of research for sure
But when I had 9 points I could have drawn with 11, the target keeps moving, and it's farther way.

WapitiBob · Feb 8, 2018

Water under the bridge now but you gotta look at the number of people ahead of you and the number of licenses issued.

TOPGUN · Feb 9, 2018

>wtf wants to shoot a cow???....even
>with zero points...
>
>have at the cows topgun...they are
>all yours

Lots of people shoot females of many different species if it benefits the herd. If it's not your cup of tea, then it's no harm no foul! I was just trying to give these two guys an option with all the money they have invested in PPs to still go on a hunt and take home so fantastic meat for the table!

2_Point · Feb 9, 2018

80 years of waiting until you get a tag. if half the people drop out you are 40 years away. do you want to hunt moose in 2058? will the draw be the same in 2038?

bowhuntinnut · Feb 11, 2018

I've got 15 now and not sure how long it will take to get a decent tag! The wolves sure screwed us!

huntin50 · Feb 12, 2018

A brother and cousin has 14 Non res moose points. They are out. Likely 4-6 years for a 15-16 point unit. WY sure does like to move the goal post a lot. Just when you thought you were on the 10 yard line they push you back to the 50 and charge you so much that you feel guilty to continue. Family and kids could use the money a lot more than a 4-5,000 K moose tag.

TOPGUN · Feb 12, 2018

>A brother and cousin has 14
>Non res moose points.
>They are out. Likely 4-6
>years for a 15-16 point
>unit. WY sure does
>like to move the goal
>post a lot. Just
>when you thought you were
>on the 10 yard line
>they push you back to
>the 50 and charge you
>so much that you feel
>guilty to continue. Family
>and kids could use the
>money a lot more than
>a 4-5,000 K moose tag.
>

There were a decent number of units last year where guys drew tags with 15 points. I think I'd wait one more year to see how many bail out for the 2018 season before I'd give that many points up. Wyoming also hasn't "moved the goal posts a lot" as you put it and in your state there aren't even any goal posts to be seen, so I wouldn't diss on Wyoming!

flycrewsupe · Feb 12, 2018

I'm sitting at 17 NR points. I'm in it for the long haul. I would like to think I'm in the game for several units.

OchocoKid · Feb 12, 2018

I wouldn't shoot a cow if they gave me points.

You didn't say how old you are. if you're young enough and you want to spend the money it may pay off someday.

In my opinion for moose I'd bag it and spend the money on a sure thing in Canada whenever you're ready. for Sheep I'd stay in if you're not too old to have a realistic chance at drawing years from now. different game altogether.

Stay Thirsty My Friends

TOPGUN · Feb 13, 2018

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-18 AT 08:51AM (MST)[p]>I wouldn't shoot a cow if
>they gave me points.
>
> You didn't say how old
>you are. if you're
>young enough and you want
>to spend the money it
>may pay off someday.
>
> In my opinion for moose
>I'd bag it and spend
>the money on a sure
>thing in Canada whenever you're
>ready. for Sheep I'd
>stay in if you're not
>too old to have a
>realistic chance at drawing years
>from now. different game
>altogether.

***Who really cares whether you would shoot a cow or not, as we're not talking about what you would or wouldn't do! The stats are very simple on both sheep and moose in case you can't even do simple math! The number of people that have 15 or more points that are ahead of everyone else will be lucky to draw even if they live long enough and are in a rocking chair. It's just simple math that there are way too many people in line ahead of ones that only have single digit points and not enough tags each year to cut the numbers down to where a person doesn't even have a 10% chance at a tag in their lifetime---sad, but true!

huntin50 · Feb 13, 2018

Top,
Bonus points were 7 dollars for a few years for moose. Then they went to 75 dollars, now 150 dollars.

I have shot a WY moose. I hunted last year with a friend who had a moose tag. He had 15 points, with a 30% chance of drawing he lucked out. There are 3 non res moose permits in this easier units to draw.

653 non res with 14 points
616 non res with 15 points
547 non res with 16 points

This is 1,816 non residents. Some will drop out because of the price increase.

Many of the 15 and 16 point holders will try to cash in their points to lesser units. The unit that I have hunted twice.

My brother and cousin make a good living. A lot Better than average.

It could take 10 more years to draw. It is not worth having 4-5 thousand into a moose tag to them. Wyoming is pricing out people who make a good living, but not rich.

TOPGUN · Feb 13, 2018

>Top,
>Bonus points were 7 dollars for
>a few years for moose.
> Then they went to
>75 dollars, now 150 dollars.
>
>
>I have shot a WY moose.
> I hunted last year
>with a friend who had
>a moose tag. He
>had 15 points, with a
>30% chance of drawing he
>lucked out. There are 3
>non res moose permits in
>this easier units to draw.
>
>
>653 non res with 14 points
>
>616 non res with 15 points
>
>547 non res with 16 points
>
>
>This is 1,816 non residents.
>Some will drop out because
>of the price increase.
>
>Many of the 15 and 16
>point holders will try to
>cash in their points to
>lesser units. The unit
>that I have hunted twice.
>
>
>My brother and cousin make a
>good living. A lot
>Better than average.
>
>It could take 10 more years
>to draw. It is
>not worth having 4-5 thousand
>into a moose tag to
>them. Wyoming is pricing
>out people who make a
>good living, but not rich.
>

I don't know why you made that post to me when I have said the same thing you have on how few people will draw tags based on the number of tags issued and the massive number of people who have a lot of points. The stats were very bad before those price increases as far as most people not being able to draw a tag within their huntable lifetime unless they started buying points at 12 years old, are still fairly young, and have double digits in points right now. These PP and license fee increases will obviously cause a number of people at all levels to drop out and the odds of drawing may get a little better, but IMHO if a guy doesn't have double digit points and is more than 50 years old I'd be getting out of the rat race.

huntin50 · Feb 13, 2018

Top,
Your are willing to help others and I appreciate this.
In post number 16 you said that WY wasn't moving the goal post. You said we might want to wait for another year. I just pointed out how far behind my Brother and cousin were and they are dropping out with 14 points.

It is too bad WY didn't keep bonus points at 75 dollars or maybe bump them to 100. But 150 for a point and 600 more for a tag is making it a rich man game.

Thanks for your willingness to help others on this site. I hope your health is doing better.

TOPGUN · Feb 13, 2018

>Top,
>Your are willing to help others
>and I appreciate this.
>In post number 16 you said
>that WY wasn't moving the
>goal post. You said
>we might want to wait
>for another year. I
>just pointed out how far
>behind my Brother and cousin
>were and they are dropping
>out with 14 points.
>
>It is too bad WY didn't
>keep bonus points at 75
>dollars or maybe bump them
>to 100. But 150
>for a point and 600
>more for a tag is
>making it a rich man
>game.
>
>Thanks for your willingness to help
>others on this site.
>I hope your health is
>doing better.

I do my best to help others, so thanks for that and also your last comment about my health! FYI my surgery and biopsies last month went well and found that the cancer had not spread from the lump on my forehead to the lymph nodes, so I'm now cancer free and raring to go for 2018! My comment about not moving the goal posts was meant to mean the time and points it's taking to get the sheep and moose tags no matter what the price of the points and fees are, but you're right that raising the fees also screwed those that just can't afford that kind of increase wit the low rate of return. Those increases certainly hurt a lot of people that will have to drop out and I'm not arguing that at all. IMHO a random draw system with a waiting time after you draw a hard to draw tag would be the best system. Until that waiting time is up the person could apply for easier to draw tags. I'm not buying PPs anywhere, as I was smart enough to see that it's mostly a con game that I didn't want to get involved in because of my age (70) and the fact that I'm happy just drawing easy tags every year and getting outdoors as much as I can.

rambopup4 · Feb 14, 2018

MuddyBoots - I've posted repeatedly about this topic. Some understand the mathematical shell game the WGFD is hosting for a NR moose tag. Most do not. Unless you are at or near the top with 18 - 20 points or so the odds to draw do not merit the investment over time. And the odds for tags allocated via the random pool are even worse. Once they doubled the pref point fee and raised the tag fee from about $1400 to about $1975 I came to my senses and said enough is enough. Despite sitting on 16 points they'll never get another dime from me!

rambopup4 · Feb 14, 2018

Ocho - you are absolutely correct about the Canada moose thing. I should have just booked a Shiras moose hunt in southern British Columbia 17 years ago instead of investing in the WGFD moose shell game!

TOPGUN · Feb 15, 2018

>MuddyBoots - I've posted repeatedly about
>this topic. Some understand
>the mathematical shell game the
>WGFD is hosting for a
>NR moose tag. Most
>do not. Unless you
>are at or near the
>top with 18 - 20
>points or so the odds
>to draw do not merit
>the investment over time.
>And the odds for tags
>allocated via the random pool
>are even worse. Once
>they doubled the pref point
>fee and raised the tag
>fee from about $1400 to
>about $1975 I came to
>my senses and said enough
>is enough. Despite sitting
>on 16 points they'll never
>get another dime from me!
>

IMHO you're making a big mistake with 16 points in the bank when there were a number of tags that went with 15 and 16 points in the draw last year. Those might not be the top units, but with a decent amount of time spent hunting I'd bet you could be successful. I'll bet when people read that you're dropping out with 16 PPs they are jumping for joy and hoping that more like you do the same!