Bison

Muleyears

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Anyone hunting bison this year? Got a buddy with a tag, might head up one of these weekends and give it an early shot. Curious if there are any headed for the forest or even refuge yet? I believe he has an any bison tag. No refuge tag as of yet. Thanks for the help

-ME
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-18 AT 09:01AM (MST)[p]Early? If he's waiting to hunt the refuge, he's missing the whole point to bison hunting for bulls.
 
Not on the refuge. I call about every day looking for the cows to cross the border.

It has been quite warm and I do not expect that to end anytime soon.
 
>Not on the refuge. I call
>about every day looking for
>the cows to cross the
>border.
>
>It has been quite warm and
>I do not expect that
>to end anytime soon.

Cows are best late Dec to early Jan usually. Hope it's not like last year for you. Keep calling, I called almost every 3 days and those office gals were awesome.
I also checked the Kelly, Wy webcam and could see when bison moved down close to the river at Kelly.
 
So when the "migration" begins, do they just head south for the refuge or do they push east as well? Just trying to figure this thing out before making the long trek up there. I've heard spread creek for bulls but does that pertain to migration time as well? Thanks,
 
Spread Creek usually has bulls. Need to have a GPS if you're hunting there and be the first one there. Bulls have an uncanny knowledge of where the boundary lies. There are always a few big bulls that winter in that area and never migrate towards Jackson.
Good Luck!
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-29-18 AT 12:55PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-29-18 AT 12:45?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Oct-29-18 AT 09:36?AM (MST)

I had a bull tag in 2012. One of the most interesting/frustrating/time consuming hunts I've been part of. Make no mistake, this late in the season it is a boundary hunt. I wasn't able to start hunting until mid November and that year the bulls were not cooperating and had moved off those bigger forest land areas they like. Spread Creek is a good area. Go up the bottom and park at the mouth of the canyon and cross the creek. There's a trail that is on forest. After the first run you won't need a GPS. The national park boundary is signed and marked about every 60-100' up through the timber. You KNOW where it is at.

One morning I had 8 bulls coming to me up there on the ridge. I was standing 20 feet from the boundary. They stopped 30 feet from the boundary 45 yards away from me and proceeded to wallow around and hit each other for 45 minutes. Wind in my face. Big fuggin' bulls grunting around doing there thing; man, one was a big long curved giant...I was carrying a .338 win mag and thought I might be undergunned there for a couple minutes...lol. Then, they just turned and walked the direction they came from. I stood there with my jaw dropped just shaking my head. They KNOW where the boundary is as enough of them have experienced bad things once they get to a certain spot. There where old skeletons up there under 20 yards from the boundary and one on the other side which was investigated and that fella was caught the year I hunted.

Go up there first thing in the morning and just hang out. I would climb a big spruce up there to see over all the aspen stands and farther north. Multiple times those bulls would wander a hundred yards or so onto the forest side then just wander back just before daylight as I'd find fresh tracks in the snow. Very frustrating being just behind them. Learn where the USFS boundaries are in relation to the hwy in Grand Teton national park. There's a corner that bulls like to hang out on that's forest but your truck is in Grand Teton. You can legally walk across national park with your rifle to get to USFS land, but then you need to find a Grand Teton ranger and ask if you can carry your bull across the national park. Better yet, if you can talk to a National Park ranger before the better. The ranger we met was as nice as could be and really wanted to help us. We were just late one morning here and another hunter was parked before us. We went in together and the hunter got one of the three bulls. The other two ran hard back to the park, not a shot I wanted to take. Anyways, the park ranger allowed them to drag the bull across national park to the Spread Creek road but it had to be whole so they hired one of the drag services.

I also hunted that area behind the Hatchet Resort a few days. You'd see bulls within 200-400 yards of the boundary, again, don't worry the National Park boundary is signed well. That area appeared to be a better early season spot but worth looking at. However, it'll be a hell of a pack getting one of those big bastards back to the two track road if your in there a couple miles as its all back up hill.

I ended up killing my bull 150 yards from the Gros Ventre River on the refuge after 12 days of hunting over a period of 3 weeks. It was like a switch was flipped and in two days that big herd of buffalo just moved south from spread creek and it only snowed a 3-4". The bulls will wander around more than the cows which is a good thing. Go introduce yourself to the ladies at the front desk of the Jackson G&F office as they usually have current info to share, sometimes red hot info...! Good luck with your buddies hunt and when you get one of those big suckers to hit the ground its an amazing sight to walk up to them. From tip of nose to tip of tail my bull was 13' long. The hide squares about 11'...lol.

76798dsc0463.jpg
 
Thanks for the info. Do we need waders to cross spread creek or will muck boots get it done? Looks like some weather in the area this week, not sure if that's a good thing or not
 
I just crossed it in good goretex boots and knee high waterproof gaiters and hauled ass at a shallower spot in the creek. FYI, if you hunt the refuge and cross the Gros Ventre, you will need waders. Much deeper and swifter than it looks.
 
>Thanks for the info. Do we
>need waders to cross spread
>creek or will muck boots
>get it done? Looks like
>some weather in the area
>this week, not sure if
>that's a good thing or
>not


Last time I was there we drove in through the Park to the north side of Spread Cr. There is a road from the highway at Moran or the old Elk Ranch Meadows road ties in also. Not much Forest there to hunt though.
 
Yes, that road is open to drive and the corner of forest area in the section I'm referring to is not big. But, you need to hunt that from the south because of a stipulation that we were made aware of from the NP park ranger halfway through my hunt. If your going after buffalo by first walking through the national park lands, the buffalo need to be on US forest land first. The Grand Teton ranger we worked with was all for us hunting and using NP lands to access forest, but the buffalo had to be on USFS lands prior to us walking across NP lands. Seems silly but that's what the rules where at the time so ok that's what we'll do. People driving through the Elk Meadows areas just kept those small groups of bulls up on the ridges and would push those bulls near these small pockets of USFS land.

In the bison regs packet it said all bison killed on USFS land had to be packed out on USFS lands. Well on the small corner areas near the major visitor roads NP would give us permission to take a buffalo out through NP lands, but it had to be whole so it would be removed as quickly as possible. Maybe NP didn't want park visitors watching hunters butcher a buffalo up into 12 pieces and packing it out over a period of a couple days. I thought this was pretty cool, but like I said, you need to go meet a NP ranger first, get their contact information if you get in a bind or need help determining a boundary you can call them. The lower end of Spread Creek where the road is is all USFS but those bison would stay a healthy distance north of Spread Creek out in the sagebrush and aspen ridges on NP land. If they crossed Spread Creek it was in the dark early early morning hours.

These tag-n-drag services have these rangers on speed dial...believe me. I was waiting for 3 bulls to walk onto USFS land for 3 hours one afternoon as they were napping within 30 yards of the boundary. The NP ranger said, you can go when they walk onto USFS land....great, ok. Well word got out about the bulls and guess who shows up, one of the outfitting services with a client...great, this is going to be ##### show now. So the guide/outfitter is a hungry bastard right, suddenly decides he's the one calling the shots cause his client is paying big money...whatever, lets just go when he bulls hit the USFS land. An hour later, ok, bulls are up and walk into legal ground, now, all 3 of us go. Bulls see us and walk 10-20' inside the legal boundary. Well this sucks I'm thinking. So now you got these 3 bulls way to close to the boundary and quartering away walking down the USFS boundary. They finally turn just a little bit and the outfitter says shoot to his hunter...I'm think F that, 2000# bull within feet of the boundary...he shoots the lead bull on a hard quartering shot and hits way too high with a 7 mag. I pass on the others... The bull walks back onto NP land and stops 20 yards into park lands...this is where it got funny...client asked his guide...should I shoot..no..he says.. bull is on NP lands. No #####, within seconds this outfitter has the NP ranger on his cell phone and within 20 minutes 2 rangers showed up and they went tracking this bull through the park with the rangers leading the way packing .45's...for buffalo.. Remember, if you shoot one on USFS land and they walk back onto NP land, you cannot go recover them without a NP ranger with you even if they fall within sight. Me, I unloaded my rifle, went and got back in my truck and went back to looking for buffalo. LOL...next day these two yahoos are riding horses through Grand Teton NP looking for his bull and a ranger is following them on the nearest road in a vehicle.. Four days later 3 more bulls showed up in the same spot. I arrived at 5:30 in the morning, a really nice lady and her husband arrived at 4:30. We went in at first light and the bulls were 100 yards on forest. I let her go the last 50 yards and she got a nice 5 year bull. I gave them the NP ranger info, he showed up in about an hour and let them drag the bull out whole across NP a half mile to Spread Creek.

Like I said, this turns into a boundary hunt this time of year. I tried like hell to get one on USFS land, but in the end if you can find one on any legal area its a win. I killed mine by riding horses across the Gros Ventre on the very northern portion of the refuge once they moved down overnight one day and caught him moving back towards the NP boundary. All the cows were still west of Kelly in the park. I was able to avoid the major ##### show that occurs when the buffalo are smack dab in the middle of the refuge thank goodness and actually had a really enjoyable hunt on the northern portion of the refuge, however I couldn't be very selective on the bull I wanted to shoot, for me, the time that ended up being involved, I took the first shot I got after 12 days.
 
Not going to question what you say the Ranger told you, but you can walk across or drive on open roads on the Park to access NF whether there is a bison on forest or not. That was all decided in the courts, they cannot stop an armed citizen that wants to go through the Park.

Something else, out of eight bull bison hunts I have been on in the Jackson Hole area, only one took us a second day to find shootable bulls on NF. Knowing the best time to go is helpful.

And I didn't need to write a book to say this. ;)
 
>Not going to question what you
>say the Ranger told you,
>but you can walk across
>or drive on open roads
>on the Park to access
>NF whether there is a
>bison on forest or not.
>That was all decided in
>the courts, they cannot stop
>an armed citizen that wants
>to go through the Park.
>
>
>Something else, out of eight bull
>bison hunts I have been
>on in the Jackson Hole
>area, only one took us
>a second day to find
>shootable bulls on NF. Knowing
>the best time to go
>is helpful.
>
>And I didn't need to write
>a book to say this.


LOL...yeah I was pretty wordy...lol Guess I took some 6 year pent up frustration out on the keyboard..lol. The early season is gone now. The late part of the season was a tough go that year. I surely would have like to hunted September, but a mule cancelled my plans until later when I had strength back in my right leg...lol. Perhaps there's different info out there now with park rules, but even the outfitter that got in the middle of me that one afternoon wasn't walking across the park until the bulls were on national forest and those guys hunt it every day or perhaps he was just ill informed too.
 
Looks like it's supposed to get colder up there for the weekend and early next week. Does that usually get them moving around more, or does it take snow to do that?
 
Went over deer hunting again yesterday morning in the dark. Probably dodged 60-80 elk along the road between Blacktail and Moran Jct.

Just came back thru there from Dubois this morning. 17 degrees in town, and it was 14 degrees coming over the pass. There was 8-10" of fresh snow on top (maybe 20" total now), and white all the way to the Valley. Elk moving all over up high, saw a nice bull moose, and a single mule deer buck. Took a few minutes to glass different places like MH, Triangle X, and Buffalo. Never saw a single bison.
 
I had an elk refuge permission slip this weekend.

I went up to see where the bison were at during one of the days.

There is a herd of 8 bulls north of Kelly about a mile or two.

There is another herd of 8 bulls flirting with the boundary of the national forest in the shadow mountain area.

A bigger herd with cows, calves, and bulls are hanging to the north of blacktail butte. Without any snowfall, I do think they have a reason to move onto the refuge. Lots of feed still poking out of the snow.
 
Get the feeling the refuge hot line isn't gonna be updated through the holiday weekend. I have a refuge permit ending on the 26th. Any chance anyone is in the area that could let me know if the dinosaurs are headed for the refuge? I can get my buddy headed that way at a moments notice when it's time. Thanks
 
I was up all last week


Like stated above, some hanging around but not in legal shooting area's


Maybe that herd around Mormon Row will slip across the Gros Ventre into the NER?


Robb
 
>Get the feeling the refuge hot
>line isn't gonna be updated
>through the holiday weekend. I
>have a refuge permit ending
>on the 26th. Any chance
>anyone is in the area
>that could let me know
>if the dinosaurs are headed
>for the refuge? I can
>get my buddy headed that
>way at a moments notice
>when it's time. Thanks


No need to wait for them to go to the refuge, go hunt. I know a local who went up the latter part of November and got a dandy bull in two days.

The refuge is a joke anyway.
 
Check out the Kelly webcam, you can see if they are along the road or east of Blacktail butte.

The refuge is almost a guarantee if they are there, no joke.
 
Does the gros ventre ever freeze in slow sections enough to walk across? Waders at 20 below don't sound like a ton of fun but I guess I'll do it if we have to
 
You may not have to worry about it this year. Snow seems to be avoiding Jackson.

What I would do is get some some waders, some rope, and a carabiner. Then make a zip line across the river and back across the river. Then put your waders in the truck and Zipline across and back.

Either that or get some light weight breathable waders and just hang them in a tree after you cross and change into your hunting gear. Neoprene waders are sweat producing machines if you have to hike a ton.
 
I would recommend packing your waders. It's big country south of the river and with any snow at all its hard to travel. Good chance you won't be coming out the same way. Been there done that and it's not fun??
 
Hit the gate entrance along the highway just before the river. It's a hike in but very doable, did it last cow hunt. Have some snow shoes. The horseback hunters will push them south along the river, some will cross back but be ready for a running shot. The gap is a good spot to wait for them.
Some cross over up by Kelly and can be accessed from the plowed retrieval road up the draw on the refuge.
River is usually low enough to cross but ice can be the issue on the shoreline.
By late season the guides were offering pretty cheap horseback access, $100-150 for a day. I post holed for 3 days then turned them down. Worked out for me but for some it would be the way to go.
Good luck, they will come over eventually, hopefully during the open season.
 
>With the Government shut down the
>hotline isn't updated and is
>down.
>
>Nothing looks close to the refuge
>on the webcam (https://www.alltravelcams.com/webcams/grand_teton_national_park/kelly_wy_west.php)
>
>3-6 inches of snow on Wednesday
>through Friday (https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/jackson-wy/83001/weather-forecast/336564)
>
>It makes a man wonder what
>are the chances the bison
>wonder over this week.
>
>Or, will it be a year
>of tag soup.
>
>It is getting down to the
>wire.
>
>Fingers crossed.

Considering buffalo have been hitting the ground on the refuge the past few days... some people wont be having tag soup.
 
How many kills are they up to now? Haven't heard anything since my buddy tagged out a couple of weeks ago. Hope those cows make a move before the end of the month, I know there was a pile of cow hunters waiting when we were up there
 
>How many kills are they up
>to now? Haven't heard anything
>since my buddy tagged out
>a couple of weeks ago.
>Hope those cows make a
>move before the end of
>the month, I know there
>was a pile of cow
>hunters waiting when we were
>up there

A guy from work has been up several times trying to fill his cow tag. He went up on Thursday again. His comment before he left on Wed was that he just wanted it to be over. Not quite the hunt he had envisioned. Anther friends husband also has the tag and he is regretting it as well.
 
I'll be up here until the close of season.

The Moran group of 250 disappeared this morning, so they are on the move somewhere.

There is a group on around 30-50 on south side of black tail butte towards the top of the mountain, out of site from the road. They were the same group that was on the refuge last Friday and was shot off the refuge .

There is another group of 30-50 next to kelly that may cross or not before the end.

Right now it is more of the same , bison not on the elk refuge.

The snow is knee deep plus , but it doesn't seem to effect the bison. Hopefully with the government reopening they do not decide to feed before the end of the season .

If you are looking to put in, in the future I think the bull tag is the way to go.
 
>How many kills are they up
>to now? Haven't heard anything
>since my buddy tagged out
>a couple of weeks ago.
>Hope those cows make a
>move before the end of
>the month, I know there
>was a pile of cow
>hunters waiting when we were
>up there

All this and you haven't posted a picture of his bison?
 
>I'll be up here until the
>close of season.
>
>The Moran group of 250 disappeared
>this morning, so they are
>on the move somewhere.
>
>There is a group on around
>30-50 on south side of
>black tail butte towards
>the top of the mountain,
>out of site from the
>road. They were the same
>group that was on the
>refuge last Friday and was
>shot off the refuge .
>
>
>There is another group of 30-50
>next to kelly that may
>cross or not before the
>end.
>
>Right now it is more of
>the same , bison not
>on the elk refuge.
>
>The snow is knee deep plus
>, but it doesn't seem
>to effect the bison. Hopefully
>with the government reopening they
>do not decide to feed
>before the end of the
>season .
>
>If you are looking to put
>in, in the future I
>think the bull tag is
>the way to go.



We found my last cow up Long Hollow after they crossed over way up above Kelly. We just happened to see them from the Highway and watched them disappear towards the upper Refuge boundary. GW Stephens told us where he thought they would go and they did.

I think the cow tag is better for residents and NR that live close enough to go on call when they move across. Worked for us both times.
They are definitely learning boundaries and timing I believe.
Snow shoes worked great for me, I posted holed 2 days before putting them on, never again.
 
Maybe this year is just an outlier, but more than a few of the hunters I have conversed with have spent more money coming up on different weeks and weekends than it would cost to hire tag & drag.

Today is another bust. The bison did not cross, hopefully with the cold coming tonight they decide they want to cross .

The black tail butte herd and kelly herd appear to have combined.

The Moran bigger herd is still lost.

4 more days after today,
 
I drew cow bison this year. This was a good thread. If anyone has any more recent data please let me know. I understand the NER is not the best experience but it might be my only option.

When did the bison come on in 2021/2022? Cows? If I show up in January am I sure to get on the NER? I know they closed bison hunting early a few years ago has it happened again?
 
I drew cow bison this year. This was a good thread. If anyone has any more recent data please let me know. I understand the NER is not the best experience but it might be my only option.

When did the bison come on in 2021/2022? Cows? If I show up in January am I sure to get on the NER? I know they closed bison hunting early a few years ago has it happened again?
Get in touch with Ralph Greene at Tag and Drag. He can give you the details on it but I wouldn’t expect any cows on the refuge until the last few days of Jan. It’ll be fast and furious if/when they show. I filled my bull tag the second week of January but it was the only bull on the refuge, there weren’t any cows even close at that time. I hired Ralph and that allowed refuge access, not sure how it works if you go DIY other then try to get a refuge permit for the absolute last few days of January.
 
I hired Ralph and that allowed refuge access, not sure how it works if you go DIY other then try to get a refuge permit for the absolute last few days of January.
Curious as to what you mean here about hiring Ralph and getting refuge access.
 
Curious as to what you mean here about hiring Ralph and getting refuge access.
I guess I was under the impression you needed to draw a spot to hunt the refuge, I believe he is permitted to guide on there and if you’re with him that’s your permit. I could be wrong on that though.
 
I guess I was under the impression you needed to draw a spot to hunt the refuge, I believe he is permitted to guide on there and if you’re with him that’s your permit. I could be wrong on that though.
The hunter needs the refuge permit allowing access. It can be obtained through a drawing or issued later depending on how many hunters are on the refuge. I bet Ralph knows the process rather well.
 
Thanks guys! I understand access and will call Jackson G&F several times to see what is going on. I will apply for access in December just in case. I am anxious to see data from 2021 hunt. 2019 & 2020 for the most part all cows are killed on the refuge and in January.
 

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