Middle Fork Zone Help (Units 20a, 26 & 27)

NPHunter · Apr 13, 2015

I have been a lurking member here for two years but this is my first thread and first post.

First a little about myself;

I am 33 years old and married with two boys 5 & 8 years old. I was born in Lagrande Oregon and raised in North Powder. I still live in North Powder and so do my parents and grand parents. I have been hunting every since I can remember. My first buck I shot when I was 12 was a white tail that scored 148 1/8 and was #8 in Oregon at the time. My biggest passion besides my wife and kids is elk hunting, I have killed dozens of cows and spikes but have only killed one decent branch bull. My wife also hunts and killed her fist deer the year before last.

I moved to Washington for work about 8 years ago. I only lived there for a couple years before i was able to find a good job back home. I started archery hunting elk a few years ago because of the points system and will probably never hunt another elk with a rifle here in Oregon.

This year my Christmas present from my wife is a Middle fork zone B tag for 2015. I am not 100% sure where I will be hunting yet. Either way it should be a good adventure and hunt but I am sure i will be going because I already have the tag.

If anyone has hunted the Frank Church and has any advice it would be very much appreciated. This will be my first trip hunting out of state and I will be taking the first two weeks of the season off.

I have some info on the hunt but don't want to put all of my eggs in one basket. I will have two full weeks to find a bull and buck to shoot. I plan on being mobile so if I am not getting into elk I can pack up and move locations. I am sure it will be a very awesome hunt and I have a several more months to gather as much info as possible to hopefully up my odds on a successful hunt.

I bought the deer tag so I will be able to change tactics if the elk aren't bugling yet. I would love to kill a big old high country buck so I will be actively looking for both while I am out. I think Sept. will be an awesome time to find a big buck up in the high basins and I'm possibly more excited to hunt muleys during Sept. with a rifle than elk!!!

Any help or tips would be greatly appreciate.

PM's Welcome

Thanks in advance for your time

mickeymouseoutfitters · Apr 13, 2015

Nice to meet you. I have hunted that area a few times and I love it. There is plenty of elbow room, but the game seems to be just as spread out. I never seem to be in good enough shape when I go, so unless you have just finished the "Iron Man Triathlon" your not in good enough shape either. I would recommend horses.
There are a few nice deer in that area, but it might take a few months to find them. Hunting is secondary to the awesomeness of that area. And don't forget your wolf tag!

________________________________________
A law against nature would be impossible to enforce. For instance, what good would a vote against the law of gravity do?

davis5 · Apr 13, 2015

sent u pm

boise · Apr 13, 2015

LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-15 AT 10:27PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-15 AT 10:04?PM (MST)

Look at the mentor youth program in Oregon your son can start building 2 points a year by putting in for draw and getting a point thru program. Don't know how well elk numbers are but you should have no trouble getting a buck. Head out of Challis on sleeping deer road f.s. 086. Once you get past twin peaks your in Church. You will see a fair amount of traffic on road because it's a road going thru a wilderness area! Lots of burned areas 15x's and spotting scope are a must glass from road. I will also hike out a few of the flat ridges to look at stuff I can't see from road. Bring chains in case it snows and 100qt coolers with ice in case it's in the 80's. If it rains at the end of summer the drive is worth it just to see the wild flowers. If you like it bring your son back with you in a couple years our nr juniors tags are dirt cheap and they get to hunt A and B on single tag. Good luck.. Have you ever hunted sled springs in Oregon?

NPHunter · Apr 14, 2015

Thanks for the info guys, keep it coming. I am defiantly not a Iron man athlete but I have been out hiking/shed hunting a bit and have been working out every morning before work since Jan.

I defiantly plan on using the Oregon mentor youth program, I didn't realize you could get double points? Can I buy them a licence when they are 9?? Then do I just put in for point savers and sign up for the mentor program???

Thanks for the info on the hunt also, I plan on doing lots of glassing, I don't have 15x binos but I have some good 10x and a 20-60 Viper HD scope that will be used extensively. I do a fair amount of glassing up bucks in the sage brush here in the summer hopefully I can spot them in the burned off timber also. It seems like once you start seeing them it gets easier and easier, it is like your eyes auto pick them out after a while.

Not familiar with sled springs, I've hunted, Starkey, Keating, Catherine Creek, Imnaha, Mt. Emily and Sumpter units. I archery hunt here in Oregon due to the point system and normally use my deer points to get my wife a tag. I am saving up for a few years now and going to do and early season SE OR archery hunt. I see a ton of huge bucks while archery hunting the high country here in Oregon for elk, I have not been able to close the deal on a whopper yet but have been close. With a rifle up there in Sept. I would have several wall hangers both deer and elk. I would have to imagine that the Idaho wilderness or edges of hold more elk and deer then the ones here in NE Oregon.

boise · Apr 14, 2015

Yes license and with point saver for each series 100,200,600 and the one mentor point which u can assign to one of those series when you ready to cash in. The area i mentioned is 100's of square miles. You don't have to have 15x's but sure makes it nice. If they drop price on second tags again this year squirrel away a couple hundred bucks for second tag just in case! You can always drive in to town and pick one up if you fill your first one.

customweld · Apr 14, 2015

I have spent quite a bit of time in 26. It's big, beautiful and miserable. As stated earlier, the game is spread out. You would think that lack of roads,lack of pressure and good habitat would result in good numbers. That has not been my experience. My family has a lodge in Big Creek and I used to hunt out of there quite a bit, there used to be a decent herd of elk in there, however the big canines have decimated it. Not trying to be Debby Downer, that has been my experience since 1999. The scenery is incredible and is worth the trip.

mickeymouseoutfitters · Apr 17, 2015

I've been thinking since you started this thread. I've been putting in for a mountain goat for the last few years off and on and haven't drawn yet. And it's been awhile since I've been in that area. If I draw or not, I think I will have to go back. Just something about that area keeps me wanting to go back. A big contrast when I leave, swearing I never will return.

________________________________________
A law against nature would be impossible to enforce. For instance, what good would a vote against the law of gravity do?

ID_MW · Apr 26, 2015

Hey NPHunter- The other commenters are pretty spot on concerning this hunt- It is one of the uniquely opportunistic hunts in the country; with the ability to rifle hunt elk in the rut and double down on a buck during a season usually reserved for bowhunters. Tagging both a bull and a buck in this extremely steep and rugged country will be difficult at best.

The access to these units is rough, time consuming and not conducive to pulling camp and relocating if you plan on driving the perimeter of this roadless (non-motorized) wilderness. The majority of the Frank Church is extremely rugged and physically demanding, it will test even very seasoned backpack or pack-stock hunters. It is deceivingly dry in the high country- and more than likely even drier this year due to the impending drought. Identifying and locating water sources is imperative if you plan on sustaining a backpack trip in the FC.

Most of the game will be located at high elevation in September; barring fires- NOT down low in the creek bottoms or down on the river (Middle Fork). I really don't know of any guys who have consistent success on deer during this season, but that said- quite a few guys I know shoot their bulls with this tag (they are all long-range guys to boot). The Population is pretty low back there, both deer and elk, mostly from decline in habitat due to devastating fires and early unrestricted wolf predation before the state took over management. You might honestly look to an outfitter here- you can fly into one of their camps and have them spike you out. This will cost you a bit more, but you will have water and detailed scouting info as well as a responsible means of returning your meat during what may be a very hot season. Flying in to an airstrip, even if your trip is DIY, will more than likely provide you access to less-hunted areas and a more enjoyable and memorable wilderness experience.

I would refute the comment of one poster who recommended you having the ability to "Run back in to town to pick up your second tags." You would have to give up at least one whole day and a lot of gas if you planned on driving out to a town for services. If you plan on driving and hunting from the perimeter or a trail head- make sure you have lots of food/water/extra fuel for this trip- not to mention cooler space and plenty of ice to responsibly handle your meat. It will be a LONG drive back to any town.

I, like many other posters to this thread do not want to discourage you from experiencing this hunt- quite to the contrary; I hope all public land hunters attempt (at least once) to hunt our few remaining true wilderness areas in the west; to experience the land like our pioneer forefathers did generations before us. You will not regret hunting in the Frank Church, but it does not favor the unprepared.

I am from LaGrande originally as well- so I sincerely do wish you the best of luck out there- MW

mntnguide · Apr 27, 2015

What is posted above is a great statement...The Frank is an unbelievable place and has its special allure, but dont expect it to be game rich.. I spent 4 years guiding in the heart of 26, and left because i was absolutely tired of having to guide client upon client seeing very little game during 8 day hunts. . We covered 10-20+ miles daily on horseback looking over immense amount of country, that i knew damn well. And there would be times we could go days without seeing anything. So if you go, dont get frustrated if you spend days without seeing animals, but i would also suggest if your gut tells you there are no animals there, move on and find another spot if possible. The Frank is pretty open country and optics will save your legs a lot of pointless walking. Its steeper than hell and try to save your stamina for when you find something to go after. Best of luck, no matter what you decide its an amazing area...Dont forget a WOLF TAG!!

NPHunter · Apr 30, 2015

Thanks for the input fellas. I am pretty excited about the hunt, I know it will not be a slam dunk so to speak but I am very optimistic that I can find a deer and elk. I will be 17 days straight in the woods which is a long time to find a critter or two. I have seen some of the bucks and bulls that come from that country so I know they are there, it is just a matter of finding them. There will most likely be 3-4 of us and we all have good spotters and binos and if we spread out a little we should be able to cover a lot of ground (glass lots of country).

muleyhunter413 · May 27, 2015

Great tips people! Thanks a lot. This is what I was hoping for. Keep em coming.

AJEmerick · Jun 28, 2015

Im curious to hear a little more about this unit also. I just drew by accident or coincidence the 20A controlled deer tag and considered hunting it. Ide hate to waste a tag. Does anyone have any more input on deer hunting specifically 20A area? any good input from local bios?

broomd · Jul 14, 2015

20-a...As brutal a unit as one will ever hunt.
Steep is an understatement...hot, dry, smokey, (depending on time of year) desolate... .

That is all I will share on an open forum especially to a new poster here.

Educate yourself with self-earned info and get back to me via pm for more.

Finnhunter · Jul 9, 2016

Hey man,

Looking to do this hunt this year and waning to see how it turned out for you last year? Good I hope! Any light you can shed? Thanks

IdaMatt · Jul 12, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Jul-12-16 AT 10:46AM (MST)[p]I've hunted 20a my entire life. Someone posted above about it being a brutal unit, this is an understatement. Steep, steep and steep. I don't hunt it anymore, we have cabins close by, the elk population has been hit hard. But with that said, there are still elk in there, just have to spend a lot of time looking. The deer in the Frank Church are smaller, with smaller antlers as well. It has poor nutrients, but there have been some big bucks killed, about 1 every 5-8 years breaks the 185" mark. Sent me pm and I can share a little more info.

broomd · Jul 16, 2016

Yep, that was me that referred to that area as brutal. All boot leather movement, unless one has horses and that country can be very dicey for stock too.
I've read several sources where horses were killed in that unit due to dangerous switchbacks and trails...

It's a last ditch unit for quality or quantity, both are sparse.

broomd · Jul 16, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Jul-16-16 AT 10:15AM (MST)[p]Go down and scout, Finn...do your homework.

NPHunter · Jul 26, 2016

I would go somewhere else. Saw more wolves than deer or elk up there, we were in 20a along the river. I might consider hunting it again some day but it would be 100% backpacking hunt so I could cover enough ground to get into the animals. The ones we were seeing were too far to make day hunts on (7-8 miles hike away and 3000 feet of elevation below us into the wilderness).

We didn't hear a single bugle but that is because we were to far from the elk. We did see bulls chasing cows in a few spots they were just to deep for us to get to them. If you do plan on going and will be backpacking be prepared for snow up there, it snowed on us several days and we had 4" of snow on our tent by the end of the 3rd day. We were there the opening week of the Sept. season.

I would never give up my bow season to do that hunt again, might go back someday with the A tag in Oct. though?

>Hey man,
>
>Looking to do this hunt this
>year and waning to see
>how it turned out for
>you last year? Good I
>hope! Any light you
>can shed? Thanks

IdaMatt · Jul 26, 2016

NPhunter, sent you a PM.

powderfinger · Jul 26, 2016

Hey NPH,
You say you were by the river in 20a, but the animals were 3k below you so I assume you did come in from the top. Which means they were about mid slope and very inaccessible. Correct? That has been my experience in the Frank. Been some great accurate info in this thread. We hunt from the bottom up which has been just as stupid, hard, seldom productive yet always rewarding. At least the fishing floating and camping is good.

Powder

IdaMatt · Jul 27, 2016

Powerderfinger,

You are so correct, the elk in there are almost always mid slope, they are there for a reason. I've had my most painful moments trying to get to elk in the Frank. It is beautiful country, but I've been scratching my head for the past 4 years since I starting hunting another unit that is far easier to kill elk in. Bottom line is you will remember hunting in there forever, but if you want to kill elk on a regular basis I would advise moving North, South, East or West 50 miles and you can get it done with some work.

NPHunter · Jul 27, 2016

Yes we were hunting from the top down and the elk were closer to the river that the top. If I had it to do over again I would backpack in and hunt off of my back from the river up. I think a person could do well hunting this way and also all the packing would be downhill.

I wouldn't say they were very inaccessible we just weren't prepared for hunting them were they were. They were in a very good spot to get a shot at them once you got close enough. If you could spend a day getting to the elk and plan on the next several days getting them out it would be very doable. We were not prepared to spike camp out in the snow that we had and they were to far in to make a day hunt out of it. About 8 miles one way walking to get to where the elk were and several thousand feet. That doesn't sound that far as I easily do 8 mile day hunts here in NE Oregon chasing elk but 8 miles in the Frank Church is not comparable to anything else I have ever seen.

I may go back someday and if i do it will defiantly be from the bottom up and i will be doing a lightweight backpack hunt.

>Hey NPH,
>You say you were by the
>river in 20a, but the
>animals were 3k below you
>so I assume you did
>come in from the top.
>Which means they were about
>mid slope and very inaccessible.
>Correct? That has been my
>experience in the Frank. Been
>some great accurate info in
>this thread. We hunt from
>the bottom up which has
>been just as stupid, hard,
>seldom productive yet always rewarding.
>At least the fishing floating
>and camping is good.
>
>Powder

broomd · Jul 30, 2016

The problem with this unit is the brutal distance involved.

I went in and heard an elk bugle, thought about pursuing him (he was close and likely a herd bull) But I was nine miles in! On foot.

I was also sheep hunting with that golden tag, but the reality is any elk I would have killed would have spoiled by the time I got all of the meat out. Two trips for wife and I..two round trips--that's 36 miles each, 72 miles combined on foot.

Backpacking is the way to go for sheep and deer, but for elk it isn't practical, or likely ethical given the possiblity of 90* temps during the rut.

kimbersig · Aug 1, 2016

did you get a sheep?

broomd · Aug 7, 2016

Kimber, no.
For the first time here in ID, I had tag soup.
The fires down there did us in. The unit right across the river was completely closed-sheep tags were honored the next year--my unit should have been as well.

I did kill a muley buck while in there, and I killed a Cali ram here in ID in '09, so it wasn't too bitter a pill to swallow.

whuppinstick · Aug 16, 2016

>But
>I was nine miles in!
>On foot.
>

It's doable!

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=387418

idhikker · Aug 20, 2016

It seems like the elk in the Frank are mostly at higher elevations in September and October. I agree with those who feel that the Frank Church has many "dead zones" However, do you think that the elk are at the heads of creeks or high basins in the 7500-9000 range more or a little lower than that? Do they seem to be more in the basins than in the timbered ridges? It seems like the lake basins may have more elk because they are flatter and better overall terrain.

Whuppinstick,

Awesome job on the hunt. How have hunts in the Frank Church gone for you since then? I think that was a few years ago.