Rumors??

runamuk · Mar 2, 2016

Was talking to a friend today and I was told that there was some upper-level fish and game employees that got busted rigging the draw system, rumor has it they were able to draw some highly coveted tags the past several years. My friend was unable to provide any other details other than what I posted above. I have no idea if there's any truth in this, I am making no accusations, and I really hope that it is not true.
Just wondering if anybody else has heard of this issue and might be able to provide
Some details on the subject.

6speed · Mar 2, 2016

It's BS purpotrated in part by a couple of crooked politicians that have been bought off by the folks attempting to get more privatized tags. These legislators won't actually say it happened because they know that would get them in trouble. There is actually a better chance that they were elected by a rigged vote than tags were awarded as part of a rigged draw. They did elude to the possibility in an effort to advance legislation that would privatize the draw system costing F&G ie. hunters and fisherman an extra $100,000+ per year. The Legislation has passes the Senate and will be heard by the House. Another step by a couple of legislators who don't like the current system, where everyone has the same odds, to change it without using the public input commission process.

UGAhunter · Mar 2, 2016

6speed is spot on. The arrogance of some of our state legislatures is astounding!

runamuk · Mar 2, 2016

So who is it thats buying off these politicians?
Is it SFW? if so why don't folks just come right out and say it?
Seems like there is a lot of hints that- thats who's doing it but not many want to point their finger.

I along with several of my hunting pards will be attending the meeting tonight at the Jerome F&G department, we all hope we get a chance to express our opposition to the tag grab.
I guess if there is a large turn out of SFW cronies there that would be a pretty good indication that they're the ones doing most of the pushing for these tags.

ElevenBravo · Mar 3, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Mar-03-16 AT 09:35AM (MST)[p]I do work with F&G (Hunter's Ed and volunteer work) and know most of the people in my region. Next time I'm down at the office, I'll ask around.

6speed · Mar 3, 2016

Odds are SFW won't say much at a F&G meeting. Let's look at our legislators that have either sponsored or strongly supported bills in the past few years that take tags from the public, profit private land owners, decrease the ability of the commission to use public input to set regulations etc.

Steve Bair, current cosponser of the Governor tag bill. Has voted for all of the tag grab bills in the past and sponsored the original legislation that created the Governor tag program. Coincidentally a fellow named Bair is the chair of the Utah wildlife board and former SFW high up.

Bert Brackett spoke in strong support of the bill that would have forced F&G to allow land owners (like himself) sell their LAP tags and pocket the cash. He is also connected with Jack Oyler of SFW Idaho.

Marv Hagedorn former SFW Idaho Vice Chair.

Lee Heider quoted as being in the middle of the 2013 F&G Commissioner appointment debacle. Also received written endorsements from SFW's Oyler in the 2012 election year. Somehow Oyler was even on the F&G commissioner sellection committee.

Jeff Siddoway's former F&G commissioner and current owner of a high fence Hunting operation who believes it is the right of the Legislature to make all the regulations and up to the F&G commission to figure out how to implement it.

Marc Gibbs was a proponent of the LAP tag sale bill and has been bent against the F&G ever since. His proposed bills this year to prohibit any F&G employee from drawing a LE tag would do nothing but fill the commission and department with non hunters.

Mike Moyle has ties to SFW and as the Senate majority leader, is quite possibly the single biggest threat to hunting in Idaho as we know it. Last year's dust up when F&G tried to pass the price lock legislation and had it picked appart in an effort to implement Governor's tags, points systems and sellable LAP tags was an SFW backed Moyle attempt to thwart the public input process. Moyle is all about getting tags for him and his landowner buddies and to hell with the rest of us.

There is plenty more out there but this should give you an idea.

idelkslayer · Mar 3, 2016

Nobody has to buy these politicians off for them to do this. They are wealthy owners of large amounts of land and they hate that they have to enter a drawing with everyone else when others states cater to the rich and give them tags that they can use but most often sell. It is just a bunch of whiny, selfish brats who don't care about the sportsmen of Idaho.

As for the legislation in question. No IDFG employee tampered with the drawings, these legislators are trying to create mistrust in the IDFG by claiming that it has happened or could happen. If they can get everyone to mistrust the draw process then they think they might have more success pushing their personal agendas of expanding LAP and auction tags.

twsnow18 · Mar 3, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Mar-03-16 AT 05:26PM (MST)[p]>Mike Moyle has ties to SFW
>and as the Senate majority
>leader, is quite possibly the
>single biggest threat to hunting
>in Idaho as we know
>it. Last year's dust up
>when F&G tried to pass
>the price lock legislation and
>had it picked appart in
>an effort to implement Governor's
>tags, points systems and sellable
>LAP tags was an SFW
>backed Moyle attempt to thwart
>the public input process. Moyle
>is all about getting tags
>for him and his landowner
>buddies and to hell with
>the rest of us.

As a family friend of the Moyles since I was in diapers, I usually keep my mouth shut when people bring up his name. As we have always gotten along and he lets me hunt birds on some of his land.

I texted his son about it (my sister's good friend in high school) and he said that he completely disagrees with his dad Mike, and recognizes that he is way out of line here. If that tells you guys anything, not that most of you needed any more ammunition against the Moyles.

Mike fully backs the point system riders and is always complaining about the random draw. I've personally heard him talk about hunting with landowner tags over south of Twin and that we need a point system. Direct quotes basically.

I'm not a paranoid naysayer like many on this board about rigged draws and the F&G being out to get us, so I usually stay out of these arguments. But since changing Mike's stance is long past possible, I'm sure that you guys recognize the only option to take in regards to that.

runamuk · Mar 3, 2016

6speed I sent you a PM..

runamuk · Mar 4, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-16 AT 09:40AM (MST)[p]What i took away from that meeting was it's pretty much a done deal not much else to do but go into damage control mode and try to keep it at 5 tags rather than 12, (but thats just my take on it) one thing that might help is getting as many folks as you can to fill out that survey on F&G website the deadline is 5:00 pm today but sounds like they will accept them through the weekend.

But most importantly what I ended up taking away from the meeting is that the tags are the least of our worries,
I'm finnaly starting to understand what several of you have been trying to point out, and that is, if these politcians get their way on this tag issue it will bust the door wide open for them to shove the F&G department any direction they want them to go.
This is the begining of the end for us
and F&G, we will no doubt end up just like Utah if we allow
the likes of Bair, Moyle and all the others 6speed has mentioned above to have their way on this.

6speed was right about the SFW group they had little input at the meeting, there were about 30 folks there atleast 4 from SFW.
The majority were against it and a few were sittin' the fence, the only ones that were all for it were the SFW crew and maybe one F&G official.

6speed · Mar 4, 2016

>LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-16
>AT 09:40?AM (MST)
>
>What i took away from that
>meeting was it's pretty much
>a done deal not much
>else to do but go
>into damage control mode and
>try to keep it at
>5 tags rather than 12,
>(but thats just my take
>on it) one thing that
>might help is getting as
>many folks as you can
>to fill out that survey
>on F&G website the deadline
>is 5:00 pm today but
>sounds like they will accept
>them through the weekend.
>
>But most importantly what I ended
>up taking away from the
>meeting is that the tags
>are the least of our
>worries,
>I'm finnaly starting to understand what
>several of you have been
>trying to point out, and
>that is, if these politcians
>get their way on this
>tag issue it will bust
>the door wide open for
>them to shove the F&G
>department any direction they want
>them to go.
>This is the begining of the
>end for us
>and F&G, we will no doubt
>end up just like Utah
>if we allow
>the likes of Bair, Moyle and
>all the others 6speed has
>mentioned above to have their
>way on this.
>
>6speed was right about the SFW
>group they had little input
>at the meeting, there were
>about 30 folks there atleast
>4 from SFW.
>The majority were against it and
>a few were sittin' the
>fence, the only ones that
>were all for it were
>the SFW crew and maybe
>one F&G official.

It's not a done deal just yet. If you and everyone else against it wrote to the Legislature to express their opposition it could still be stopped. A message as simple as saying you don't support Governor's tags, you don't support adding $100000+ debt to have a yet unknown private company manage the draw system and you take offence to legislation that overrides the public input / commission process.

The legislators above have shown their true colors but there are a lot of others that will have to vote on this. Make this an election year issue. They are after all elected by us.

runamuk · Mar 4, 2016

I have sent an email to both Moyle And Bair also to Crapo.
Also I have filled out the F&G survey, and I have been able to rally no less than 25 others to do the same I know for a fact the these 25+ folks have done this. i've encouraged them to reach out to everybody they know to do the same, hopfully it is creating a pebble in the pond effect.

Thing is theres alot of folks like me wanting to pitch in,
but we arn't nearly as informed like some of you so we kinda need a little extra help to insure our efforts will have the most effective impact possible.

So is there a link to reach all legislators in one email? or do i need to contact each one seperatly?
can somebody provide a link to help speed things along and insure that we are contacting everybody that needs to hear from us.

Thanks 6speed and to everybody else providing information.

6speed · Mar 4, 2016

Your off to a good start! It seems like the more Moyle and his boys hear from sportsmen the harder they push. The other legislators need to know they are being led down the wrong path. Send a message to all of them and don't forget to include Otter. There is no way that I'm aware of to email them all at the same time but you can type up your thoughts in a word document or similar and then paste it into the comment field of each ones contact page.
Senate
http://legislature.idaho.gov/senate/membership.cfm

House
http://legislature.idaho.gov/house/membership.cfm

runamuk · Mar 4, 2016

Many thanks 6speed, I assure you your efforts and time to dig up these links and all the other info you've posted up
will be put to good use.

runamuk · Mar 4, 2016

So, we all know getting friends and family to send an email to each individual senator or legislator just ain't likely to happen, but if I was to draft a letter and add all of my friends and their friends and their friends names addresses and email addresses to the letter
And send it out to every politician in Idaho, would that still have the same impact as if they all individually sent a email?
I honestly think I could add at least 100 people to the list, but if it was left up to that same hundred people to sit down and take the time to fire off all these emails maybe 5 or 10 would actually do it.

HappyHorn · Mar 4, 2016

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID37/2666.html

There is a pretty solid mailing list in this thread.

I like how constructive this thread has been. I agree that somebody should write a standard letter that we all could send. There's strength in numbers.

Keep up the good work everyone!

HappyHorn · Mar 4, 2016

runamuk · Mar 4, 2016

That's awesome

No doubt that will save a ton of time.
Many thanks Happyhorn, I appreciate your time and efforts they'll be put to good use.

chasemike · Mar 4, 2016

Not sure if it would help, I am a non resident, if it would, I will do my part.

GSJ · Mar 4, 2016

Mike moyle is the name always associated with this $hit. He's got a face book page send the ##### a message. If you live in his district vote against the mother fukker.

the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake"

runamuk · Mar 9, 2016

Well it looks like this bill passed the senate committee and now headed to resources and environment committee.

I'm in the process of starting an online petition, it should be up and running by tomorrow.
I Will provide a link to the petition here soon as it gets up and running, sounds pretty easy just click on the link sign it and pass it on, hopefully folks will put it on their Facebook accounts and other hunting forums to gain more
Traction.

Here's the way it will read on the petition, please feel free to let me know what if any changes need made.

As sportsmen we are concerned with managing wildlife through science rather than legislation, and maintaining equal opportunity to that wildlife. We are writing this letter in regards to the proposed changes to SB1236. Once again legislation is trying to dictate the actions of the Idaho Fish and Game Department through the mandatory auctioning of controlled hunt tags.
Please sign our petition against mandatory issuance of Governor?s tags ? supplied by SB1236 in 2014. We also do not support the use of outside organizations to operate our state hunting draw system and the added costs they will accrue. These tags represent our wildlife and attempting to use them to generate funds that will not be available to the Idaho Fish and Game is uncalled for. This legislation overrides public input and takes the option away from sportsman/ Fish and Game Commission, eliminating our voice in using these tags to supply funds on as needed basis.

------------------------

Here's a link with the information on where this bills been and where it's headed.
http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/legislation/2016/S1236.htm

customweld · Mar 9, 2016

If you think they will stop with the amount of tags proposed,think again! This is just a Trojan Horse to get their foot in the door. Utah has over 8 pages of auction tags that have been taken from the average sportsman! All in the name of conservation. Out of state conservation organizations should not be making a living off of the back of Idaho sportsmen and Idaho wildlife. Go into this forum and read up on the stuff going on in Utah.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID5/23284.html

BPKHunter · Mar 10, 2016

This legislation simply changes the current reg from "may" issue to "shall" issue for these same 8 tags.

The benefit statement being peddled by the legislator's is the $200,000.00 revenue benefit to F&G. Also, tags issued on the back of NR tag pool and therefore not impacting Idaho residents. Typical win-win argument. Sounds good.

One question? If F&G is in need of funds, then why have they not previously issued these since it has been their option? Maybe because they know we don't want them.

Mbogo · Mar 10, 2016

The only stats on tag sales that I could find is from 2014.
157,400 deer tags and 93,000 elk tags.
So, if the department really is in need of revenue, why not raise each tag by $1.00?
A $250,400 increase in revenue that would hurt no one financially, surpass the proposed $200,000 revenue from the auction tags and keep Pandora's box closed.
(Or, go really crazy and raise each tag $4.00, resulting in over a million dollars of increased revenue and plow all that back in to more game wardens patrolling for poaching, wildlife habitat enhancement projects, access yes etc.)

customweld · Mar 10, 2016

Fish and Game tried raising tag and license fees last year. I think the majority of sportsmen were in favor of the increase. However the legislature attached so many riders to it (landowner tags,auction tags and bonus points) that enough sportsmen spoke out about it and Fish and Game pulled the request off the table.

runamuk · Mar 10, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Mar-10-16 AT 03:28PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-10-16 AT 03:25?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Mar-10-16 AT 01:51?PM (MST)

>This legislation simply changes the current
>reg from "may" issue to
>"shall" issue for these same
>8 tags.
>
>The benefit statement being peddled by
>the legislator's is the $200,000.00
>revenue benefit to F&G.
>Also, tags issued on the
>back of NR tag pool
>and therefore not impacting Idaho
>residents. Typical win-win argument.
> Sounds good.
>
>One question? If F&G is
>in need of funds, then
>why have they not previously
>issued these since it has
>been their option? Maybe
>because they know we don't
>want them.

Yeah sounds good if it was just as simple as that.

But there's plenty more to it, like the increased power it would give legislation
To control fish and game.
If they get their foot in the door on this, then likely it won't be long before the fish and game department would end up being puppets on a string with politicians and orgs. Like SFW pulling the strings.

Also when I was at the meeting in the Jerome office the question was asked as to what guarantee there would be that no more tags could be issued? the answer was there is no guarantee.
So there is a real chance the number of these Governors tags, conservation tags, or whatever you want to call them could easily end up going from 12 to 100s before we know it.
Another question asked at the meeting was where will the funds Generated from the sales of these tags be spent, the answer was up to 30% could go to Access yes, anything else is yet to be determined.

Now, we have the issue of the Sportsmens groups being the ones auctioning these tags off, IMO it's pretty much a given that SFW is foaming at the mouth to get their hands on these tags,
do we really need this group gaining traction in Idaho?
Haven't we learned anything from what's going on in Utah?
Do we really want that sort of crap going on in the state of Idaho?

Another question we need to ask is why is this so urgently being pushed through?
Slow down a little bit get the word out a little better and allow more people to respond, about 90% of the people I have talked to about this didn't have any idea that this was going on.

We need to get this bill shut down now, The potential consequences will be irreversible and quite possibly devastating to Our young hunters and the average guy.
From everything I see is that the only ones that stand to benefit are certain sportsman groups, guides, landowners and rich folk.

also how far is 200,000 really going to go with the F&G budget at 137 million? is all the potential damage it stands to cause really worth 200 Grand?

And that is just a few reasons why I think this bill needs to be shut down, there's plenty more.

runamuk · Mar 10, 2016

Here is the petition, if you agree that this bill needs to be stopped or at least stalled for a closer look, please sign it and pass it onto your friends,relatives, and feel free to post on any other online hunting sites or social media groups that you might be a member of. it just takes a couple of seconds to click on the link and sign it.
Thanks.
https://www.change.org/p/dell-raybo...utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink

brdhuntr · Mar 10, 2016

Thanks runamok, i passed it on to my hunting friends.

runamuk · Mar 10, 2016

I appreciate the nod brdhunter, but the real thanks should go to guys like,

mbogo
6speed
custumweld
happyhorn
idelkslayer

and all the other well informed folks on this board
that keep us informed and provide so many of us with the tools to help combat this type of nonsense.

Truth is if mbogo wouldn't of started a thread a couple of weeks ago on this tag grab I would probably still be in the dark about it.

brymoore · Mar 11, 2016

>Here is the petition, if you
>agree that this bill needs
>to be stopped or at
>least stalled for a closer
>look, please sign it and
>pass it onto your friends,relatives,
>and feel free to post
>on any other online hunting
>sites or social media groups
>that you might be a
>member of. it just takes
>a couple of seconds to
>click on the link and
>sign it.
>Thanks.
>https://www.change.org/p/dell-raybo...utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink

Signed.

runamuk · Mar 11, 2016

I posted this in the general hunting forum also, be kinda curious as to how it plays out up there.

customweld · Mar 11, 2016

It sounds like Fish and Game did not vote on the auction tags in their meetings this week. The ball is in the Statehouse now. Let the legislators know how you feel about the auction tags.