Bighorn sheep
- Thread starter NMhntr727
- Start date
backcountryID
Active Member
- Messages
- 213
How tough to get a tag? Or how physically tough is the hunt?
Idaho has a lot of different styles of sheep hunting. You could glass for world class rams from the comfort of a jet boat in Hells Canyon. Or you could backpack into the Frank, which would rival any hunt in North America in terms of toughness.
Take a look at draw odds on the IDFG website. Generally, the better the odds, the more physically demanding the hunt will be. Central Idaho is regarded as one of the harsher areas in the lower 48.
Idaho has a lot of different styles of sheep hunting. You could glass for world class rams from the comfort of a jet boat in Hells Canyon. Or you could backpack into the Frank, which would rival any hunt in North America in terms of toughness.
Take a look at draw odds on the IDFG website. Generally, the better the odds, the more physically demanding the hunt will be. Central Idaho is regarded as one of the harsher areas in the lower 48.
smokepoll
Active Member
- Messages
- 448
I don't know if this link will work or not. If not just google it. It sums up a NR chance pretty well. The kicker as noted above is the 10% quota. Chances not good and all after a $154 lic. and the fronted $2100 fee...
http://blog.eastmans.com/what-are-your-odds-really/
But hey, someone will win.
http://blog.eastmans.com/what-are-your-odds-really/
But hey, someone will win.
Outdoordan
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,142
>If your really that hard up
>for sheep, start saving $50/month
>and the couple hundred bucks
>a year you spend on
>applications in a separate account.
>
>
>In 15 years you might be
>2/3 of the way to
>a guided hunt? Who knows
>with inflation.
In 15 years, with no interest (typical savings accounts), you will have $3,750. A typical guided Alberta bighorn sheep hunt with tag is $32,000. Even after drawing a tag, guided hunts are usually $7-10,000. Idaho has some of the best draw odds in the west for bighorns, and if you are serious about sheep hunting you should be in that draw.
In 2013 a friend from Florida called and asked me where I got my sheep, where he should put in, etc. I told him, he applied, and drew his tag first year. We hunted 18 days, and he hit his ram too high up with a bow (no mans land), and also missed with rifle, but that's hunting.
My ram from 2006, solo bow kill.
>for sheep, start saving $50/month
>and the couple hundred bucks
>a year you spend on
>applications in a separate account.
>
>
>In 15 years you might be
>2/3 of the way to
>a guided hunt? Who knows
>with inflation.
In 15 years, with no interest (typical savings accounts), you will have $3,750. A typical guided Alberta bighorn sheep hunt with tag is $32,000. Even after drawing a tag, guided hunts are usually $7-10,000. Idaho has some of the best draw odds in the west for bighorns, and if you are serious about sheep hunting you should be in that draw.
In 2013 a friend from Florida called and asked me where I got my sheep, where he should put in, etc. I told him, he applied, and drew his tag first year. We hunted 18 days, and he hit his ram too high up with a bow (no mans land), and also missed with rifle, but that's hunting.
My ram from 2006, solo bow kill.
>Idaho dwr raised the cost of
>applying this year! Instead of
>$154 for a hunting license
>it's 164 with a three
>day fishing license. Then the
>application fee for non residence
>is $41 instead of $16
>on top of paying the
>2100 fee upfront to apply.
>
Idaho Legislature increased the app fees, not IDFG.
>applying this year! Instead of
>$154 for a hunting license
>it's 164 with a three
>day fishing license. Then the
>application fee for non residence
>is $41 instead of $16
>on top of paying the
>2100 fee upfront to apply.
>
Idaho Legislature increased the app fees, not IDFG.
andrew12gauge
Active Member
- Messages
- 784
>>If your really that hard up
>>for sheep, start saving $50/month
>>and the couple hundred bucks
>>a year you spend on
>>applications in a separate account.
>>
>>
>>In 15 years you might be
>>2/3 of the way to
>>a guided hunt? Who knows
>>with inflation.
>
>In 15 years, with no interest
>(typical savings accounts), you will
>have $3,750. A typical
>guided Alberta bighorn sheep hunt
>with tag is $32,000.
>Even after drawing a tag,
>guided hunts are usually $7-10,000.
>Idaho has some of the
>best draw odds in the
>west for bighorns, and if
>you are serious about sheep
>hunting you should be in
>that draw.
>
>In 2013 a friend from Florida
>called and asked me where
>I got my sheep, where
>he should put in, etc.
>I told him, he applied,
>and drew his tag first
>year. We hunted 18
>days, and he hit his
>ram too high up with
>a bow (no mans land),
>and also missed with rifle,
>but that's hunting.
>
>My ram from 2006, solo bow
>kill.
>
I don't know where you learned math but $50/monthx12 months=$600/yearx15 years=$9000. If he also saves an extra $200-300 a year in app fees then he ends up at $12000-13500.
>>for sheep, start saving $50/month
>>and the couple hundred bucks
>>a year you spend on
>>applications in a separate account.
>>
>>
>>In 15 years you might be
>>2/3 of the way to
>>a guided hunt? Who knows
>>with inflation.
>
>In 15 years, with no interest
>(typical savings accounts), you will
>have $3,750. A typical
>guided Alberta bighorn sheep hunt
>with tag is $32,000.
>Even after drawing a tag,
>guided hunts are usually $7-10,000.
>Idaho has some of the
>best draw odds in the
>west for bighorns, and if
>you are serious about sheep
>hunting you should be in
>that draw.
>
>In 2013 a friend from Florida
>called and asked me where
>I got my sheep, where
>he should put in, etc.
>I told him, he applied,
>and drew his tag first
>year. We hunted 18
>days, and he hit his
>ram too high up with
>a bow (no mans land),
>and also missed with rifle,
>but that's hunting.
>
>My ram from 2006, solo bow
>kill.
>
I don't know where you learned math but $50/monthx12 months=$600/yearx15 years=$9000. If he also saves an extra $200-300 a year in app fees then he ends up at $12000-13500.
Outdoordan
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,142
LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-18 AT 10:23PM (MST)[p]>>>If your really that hard up
>>>for sheep, start saving $50/month
>>>and the couple hundred bucks
>>>a year you spend on
>>>applications in a separate account.
>>>
>>>
>>>In 15 years you might be
>>>2/3 of the way to
>>>a guided hunt? Who knows
>>>with inflation.
>>
>>In 15 years, with no interest
>>(typical savings accounts), you will
>>have $3,750. A typical
>>guided Alberta bighorn sheep hunt
>>with tag is $32,000.
>>Even after drawing a tag,
>>guided hunts are usually $7-10,000.
>>Idaho has some of the
>>best draw odds in the
>>west for bighorns, and if
>>you are serious about sheep
>>hunting you should be in
>>that draw.
>>
>>In 2013 a friend from Florida
>>called and asked me where
>>I got my sheep, where
>>he should put in, etc.
>>I told him, he applied,
>>and drew his tag first
>>year. We hunted 18
>>days, and he hit his
>>ram too high up with
>>a bow (no mans land),
>>and also missed with rifle,
>>but that's hunting.
>>
>>My ram from 2006, solo bow
>>kill.
>>
>
>
>I don't know where you learned
>math but $50/monthx12 months=$600/yearx15 years=$9000.
>If he also saves an
>extra $200-300 a year in
>app fees then he ends
>up at $12000-13500.
Sorry guess I thought he said an extra $50 a year. Either way, a long way from a paid sheep hunt, unless it's a Dall.
>>>for sheep, start saving $50/month
>>>and the couple hundred bucks
>>>a year you spend on
>>>applications in a separate account.
>>>
>>>
>>>In 15 years you might be
>>>2/3 of the way to
>>>a guided hunt? Who knows
>>>with inflation.
>>
>>In 15 years, with no interest
>>(typical savings accounts), you will
>>have $3,750. A typical
>>guided Alberta bighorn sheep hunt
>>with tag is $32,000.
>>Even after drawing a tag,
>>guided hunts are usually $7-10,000.
>>Idaho has some of the
>>best draw odds in the
>>west for bighorns, and if
>>you are serious about sheep
>>hunting you should be in
>>that draw.
>>
>>In 2013 a friend from Florida
>>called and asked me where
>>I got my sheep, where
>>he should put in, etc.
>>I told him, he applied,
>>and drew his tag first
>>year. We hunted 18
>>days, and he hit his
>>ram too high up with
>>a bow (no mans land),
>>and also missed with rifle,
>>but that's hunting.
>>
>>My ram from 2006, solo bow
>>kill.
>>
>
>
>I don't know where you learned
>math but $50/monthx12 months=$600/yearx15 years=$9000.
>If he also saves an
>extra $200-300 a year in
>app fees then he ends
>up at $12000-13500.
Sorry guess I thought he said an extra $50 a year. Either way, a long way from a paid sheep hunt, unless it's a Dall.
>$50/monthx12 months=$600/yearx15 years=$9000.
>If he also saves an
>extra $200-300 a year in
>app fees then he ends
>up at $12000-13500.
I really ought to start doing this. What's a dall sheep run these days? 15-20k? I think I'd rather pursue dalls than rocky mountains for some reason.
>If he also saves an
>extra $200-300 a year in
>app fees then he ends
>up at $12000-13500.
I really ought to start doing this. What's a dall sheep run these days? 15-20k? I think I'd rather pursue dalls than rocky mountains for some reason.
Outdoordan
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,142
>>$50/monthx12 months=$600/yearx15 years=$9000.
>>If he also saves an
>>extra $200-300 a year in
>>app fees then he ends
>>up at $12000-13500.
>
>
>I really ought to start doing
>this. What's a dall sheep
>run these days? 15-20k? I
>think I'd rather pursue dalls
>than rocky mountains for some
>reason.
I think you can get a good Dall hunt for $10-15K and probably a great hunt for $15-20K (Yukon, or NWT).
>>If he also saves an
>>extra $200-300 a year in
>>app fees then he ends
>>up at $12000-13500.
>
>
>I really ought to start doing
>this. What's a dall sheep
>run these days? 15-20k? I
>think I'd rather pursue dalls
>than rocky mountains for some
>reason.
I think you can get a good Dall hunt for $10-15K and probably a great hunt for $15-20K (Yukon, or NWT).
BPKHunter
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,744
What isn't going to happen is any place getting cheaper or easier to draw over time.
Guided hunt is a sure thing, draws are a better deal "if" you draw.
Rockies and Dall aren't apples and oranges, as you can't find a Rocky tag to buy at that price.
There are not simple or clear choices, good luck.
Guided hunt is a sure thing, draws are a better deal "if" you draw.
Rockies and Dall aren't apples and oranges, as you can't find a Rocky tag to buy at that price.
There are not simple or clear choices, good luck.
nvborn
Member
- Messages
- 78
The kicker isnt so much the 10% cap going to the NR pool but rather that you will not be able to figure out where that tag will actually be awarded. You may be one of only a handful of NR applicants in a unit, which will make you think youve got a really good shot, but it could be a unit that rarely (or never) has a tag awarded to a NR. And even the units where those tags often land are not a sure bet from year to year.
Check that data out. If you figure it out you can sell your strategy to lots of prospective applicants!
Check that data out. If you figure it out you can sell your strategy to lots of prospective applicants!
>The kicker isnt so much the
>10% cap going to the
>NR pool but rather that
>you will not be able
>to figure out where that
>tag will actually be awarded.
>You may be one of
>only a handful of NR
>applicants in a unit, which
>will make you think youve
>got a really good shot,
>but it could be a
>unit that rarely (or never)
>has a tag awarded to
>a NR. And even the
>units where those tags often
>land are not a sure
>bet from year to year.
>
>
>Check that data out. If you
>figure it out you can
>sell your strategy to lots
>of prospective applicants!
NR tags are awarded as NRs are drawn until the up to 10% figure is hit, as long as tags are still available for the unit. Any unit with an available tag could be drawn by an NR.
>10% cap going to the
>NR pool but rather that
>you will not be able
>to figure out where that
>tag will actually be awarded.
>You may be one of
>only a handful of NR
>applicants in a unit, which
>will make you think youve
>got a really good shot,
>but it could be a
>unit that rarely (or never)
>has a tag awarded to
>a NR. And even the
>units where those tags often
>land are not a sure
>bet from year to year.
>
>
>Check that data out. If you
>figure it out you can
>sell your strategy to lots
>of prospective applicants!
NR tags are awarded as NRs are drawn until the up to 10% figure is hit, as long as tags are still available for the unit. Any unit with an available tag could be drawn by an NR.
nvborn
Member
- Messages
- 78
RIght but there are a ton of units never drawn by a nonresident. Ever. So youre trying the beat the 1:X odds as well as guess if youre even in the ?right? unit. Thats my only issue with Idaho?s trophy system is that I wish theyd have a set group of units that are in the NR pool. You could apply your whole life and never actually be in the running.
Blank
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 6,515
I love this time of the year, as everybody comes out of the woodwork to love or hate the various states draw processes. Lucky people win and grin, losers find a flaw with the system. I drew sheep, goat, and moose 3 years in a row here in Idaho so I just get to watch. It took 15 years applying in 4 states to get my first sheep tag. I've been applying in more of them for the last 25 years and have yet to get my second tag, but I keep trying! Here's some comments about Idaho tho:
If you want a tag which is guaranteed to be available for NR's, put in with the other 300-400 people for the one in Unit 11. NR applicants outnumber the residents too. Four out of the last six years it has been drawn by a NR!
If the unit you like is easy to get to, easy to hunt, and has lots of sheep, you will be out numbered by the residents and your odds will be bad. Most of the residents are gonna want to hunt with their buddies, so they put in for group hunts also. If there are only 2 tags in the unit and a group draws, NR's will be out of luck. I would always put in for hunts with 3 or 4 tags total to sweeten the pot in my favor.
I know NR hunters who don't read the process and continue to apply as a group, when it is IMPOSSIBLE to get more than one tag in the unit. That would automatically throw you out.
The NR quota is the combination of both Rocky and California bighorns. Usually about 9 per year total. There are NR tags issued for both species every year. There have been Rocky tags issued in 19 of 24 hunts in the last 10 years. Over that same period, there have been California's issued in 7 of the ten units. If you are trying for a unit 54 or 55 California tag, I'm sorry but there haven't been any awarded and the quota is usually filled before they get to those.
If you do get a tag, get an outfitter. The success rates more than double if you do. I have friends who have drawn multiple tags for BOTH species, and have yet to kill a ram! Either can't or won't work hard enough to get one, or don't have the money to spend once for success.
Good luck to all who apply. Rub that horseshoe, kiss the rabbits foot, or get laid right before the application is do (my strategy). Hope to see you on the hill this Fall.
If you want a tag which is guaranteed to be available for NR's, put in with the other 300-400 people for the one in Unit 11. NR applicants outnumber the residents too. Four out of the last six years it has been drawn by a NR!
If the unit you like is easy to get to, easy to hunt, and has lots of sheep, you will be out numbered by the residents and your odds will be bad. Most of the residents are gonna want to hunt with their buddies, so they put in for group hunts also. If there are only 2 tags in the unit and a group draws, NR's will be out of luck. I would always put in for hunts with 3 or 4 tags total to sweeten the pot in my favor.
I know NR hunters who don't read the process and continue to apply as a group, when it is IMPOSSIBLE to get more than one tag in the unit. That would automatically throw you out.
The NR quota is the combination of both Rocky and California bighorns. Usually about 9 per year total. There are NR tags issued for both species every year. There have been Rocky tags issued in 19 of 24 hunts in the last 10 years. Over that same period, there have been California's issued in 7 of the ten units. If you are trying for a unit 54 or 55 California tag, I'm sorry but there haven't been any awarded and the quota is usually filled before they get to those.
If you do get a tag, get an outfitter. The success rates more than double if you do. I have friends who have drawn multiple tags for BOTH species, and have yet to kill a ram! Either can't or won't work hard enough to get one, or don't have the money to spend once for success.
Good luck to all who apply. Rub that horseshoe, kiss the rabbits foot, or get laid right before the application is do (my strategy). Hope to see you on the hill this Fall.
powderfinger
Member
- Messages
- 87
To be drawn as a NR two things have to happen. Well 3 if you include applying.
First, you have to be one of the first 10 or so NR's to be pulled, and second you better hope you picked a unit that none of the NRs ahead of you already picked. So my advice is to not pick the top most coveted units (such as 11 or 36), which are likely already filled. Scour the odds to pick a unit with multiple tags, with good harvest success, but are less popular in terms of NR applicants. And has the access that you will need. On the extreme end of the example, if a NR put in for unit 27 there is a very good chance that tag is still available if their name is drawn. Not that I'm recommending 27, since it is low success and difficult access, but hopefully you get the point.
Or just go with luck, put in for 11, and hope you're first name out of the hat.
I
First, you have to be one of the first 10 or so NR's to be pulled, and second you better hope you picked a unit that none of the NRs ahead of you already picked. So my advice is to not pick the top most coveted units (such as 11 or 36), which are likely already filled. Scour the odds to pick a unit with multiple tags, with good harvest success, but are less popular in terms of NR applicants. And has the access that you will need. On the extreme end of the example, if a NR put in for unit 27 there is a very good chance that tag is still available if their name is drawn. Not that I'm recommending 27, since it is low success and difficult access, but hopefully you get the point.
Or just go with luck, put in for 11, and hope you're first name out of the hat.
I
andrew12gauge
Active Member
- Messages
- 784
> You could apply
>your whole life and never
>actually be in the running.
>
This is an incorrect statement, you are always in the running from the beginning. The problem is that there were 1259 nonresident applicants for 6 available Rocky Mountain bighorn tags last year so simple odds say you are at 1-210 to draw a tag or about 0.5% chance at any given tag out of the gate. Now let's say you put in for unit 11 which has 265 nonresident applicants(by far the most of any unit), as soon as that 1 tag is awarded you are no longer eligible, if you are in for another unit your odds did get slightly better with 264 nonresident applicants out of the pool. All applicants are in the same pool and names are pulled from the hat, if your tag is still available you get it, until all the tags are distributed. It's a tough game for nonresidents but you are always "in the running" so to speak, it's just tough running.
>your whole life and never
>actually be in the running.
>
This is an incorrect statement, you are always in the running from the beginning. The problem is that there were 1259 nonresident applicants for 6 available Rocky Mountain bighorn tags last year so simple odds say you are at 1-210 to draw a tag or about 0.5% chance at any given tag out of the gate. Now let's say you put in for unit 11 which has 265 nonresident applicants(by far the most of any unit), as soon as that 1 tag is awarded you are no longer eligible, if you are in for another unit your odds did get slightly better with 264 nonresident applicants out of the pool. All applicants are in the same pool and names are pulled from the hat, if your tag is still available you get it, until all the tags are distributed. It's a tough game for nonresidents but you are always "in the running" so to speak, it's just tough running.
nvborn
Member
- Messages
- 78
LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-18 AT 03:32PM (MST)[p]I hear what youre saying and Im sure that a lot of what has been said here is incorrect, or at least heavily weighted by opinion, my own thoughts included.
My viewpoint may be better explained by an example. Say a NR wants to apply in unit 17. There have been exactly zero permits awarded to a NR in the last decade of seasons. Similarly, units 28-1 and 20A have gone well over a decade since the last time a NR drew, yet every year these units draw a considerable amount of NR interest as suggested by the number of applicants in each unit.
So if, after considering all of the variables above, a NR applies for those units he is effectively putting in for a tag that doesn't get awarded to the NR pool. Maybe the moral of the story is swing for the fences when applying as a NR and take your chances in a popular unit?
To offer a little insight on my perspective I am a resident of Idaho so my feelings aren't necessarily driven by anger that I can't draw as a NR and need to find flaws in the system. It is more of a casual observation than anything.
My viewpoint may be better explained by an example. Say a NR wants to apply in unit 17. There have been exactly zero permits awarded to a NR in the last decade of seasons. Similarly, units 28-1 and 20A have gone well over a decade since the last time a NR drew, yet every year these units draw a considerable amount of NR interest as suggested by the number of applicants in each unit.
So if, after considering all of the variables above, a NR applies for those units he is effectively putting in for a tag that doesn't get awarded to the NR pool. Maybe the moral of the story is swing for the fences when applying as a NR and take your chances in a popular unit?
To offer a little insight on my perspective I am a resident of Idaho so my feelings aren't necessarily driven by anger that I can't draw as a NR and need to find flaws in the system. It is more of a casual observation than anything.
Nvborn,
You?re over thinking this. The reason the units you name haven't been drawn is simply due to draw odds. The units are eligible for a NR tag but those applying haven't been drawn or may have been drawn after the NR quota has been met.
If I were a NR, I'd skip the most popular units (11 & 37) and hope for the best from a middle quality unit.
You?re over thinking this. The reason the units you name haven't been drawn is simply due to draw odds. The units are eligible for a NR tag but those applying haven't been drawn or may have been drawn after the NR quota has been met.
If I were a NR, I'd skip the most popular units (11 & 37) and hope for the best from a middle quality unit.
powderfinger
Member
- Messages
- 87
Oops I said 36 when I meant 37.
Yes all units are potentially open to NRs. Just that the less popular ones are more unlikely to have a NR put in for or be available before the quota is filled
Yes all units are potentially open to NRs. Just that the less popular ones are more unlikely to have a NR put in for or be available before the quota is filled
Blank - very insightful post as well as some of the posts that have followed. Based on what some of you guys in Idaho have posted you should be working for some of the so called license application services, magazines, or websites that claim they have the best advice or data on drawing tags in various western states. I've learned more lately on this topic at monstermuleys than I have by reading or paying for a magazine subscription!
Sadly this affirms the reality for those wanting to hunt bighorn, dall, or desert sheep before they die: wealthy hunters can simply book a sheep hunt in Alberta, British Columbia, NWT, Yukon, Alaska, or Mexico or buy a tag for such at various auctions. Other poor soles will continue to apply and dump their hard earned money into the application game with such terrible odds that if they do draw they'll either be too old to hunt or old men in a wheelchair!
Watch what happens to the Colorado draw odds in 3 - 4 years for sheep and goat now that the applicant does not have to front the entire tag fee when applying.
Sadly this affirms the reality for those wanting to hunt bighorn, dall, or desert sheep before they die: wealthy hunters can simply book a sheep hunt in Alberta, British Columbia, NWT, Yukon, Alaska, or Mexico or buy a tag for such at various auctions. Other poor soles will continue to apply and dump their hard earned money into the application game with such terrible odds that if they do draw they'll either be too old to hunt or old men in a wheelchair!
Watch what happens to the Colorado draw odds in 3 - 4 years for sheep and goat now that the applicant does not have to front the entire tag fee when applying.
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