Draw ?

Ridge86

Member
Messages
48
Alright dumb question but gotta ask. My buddy told me that if you draw a tag one year you cant put in for the same tag again next year. This true?
 
That's true in regards to antlered deer and elk . Example: if you drew a controlled hunt for antlered deer in 2018 , you cannot apply for a controlled hunt for antlered deer in 2019 . However you can apply for antlered elk In 2019 .
 
Not quite...if you draw an antlered elk or deer controlled hunt tag you have to wait a year before applying for an antlered tag for the species you drew. So its more expansive than just not being able to apply for the same exact hunt. For example, if you draw an antlered deer tag in 2018 - you can't put in for any antlered deer tag in 2019...you could put in for elk though (assuming you did not draw an antlered elk tag the year prior). This rule does not apply to the 2nd draw, nor does it apply to pronghorn, bear etc.
 
Applies to Antelope too?

Always assumed so, but having never drawn in 15 attempts, I wouldn't have needed to know I guess :(
 
CONTROLLED HUNTS, SPECIAL HUNTS, TAGS AND PERMITS

Eligibility Any person with a valid Idaho hunting license may apply, subject to the following restrictions: ? Holders of a nongame hunting license or hunting passport may not apply for any controlled hunt. ? A person who has applied for a bighorn sheep, mountain goat, or moose controlled hunt may not apply for any other controlled hunt in the same year, except unlimited controlled hunts, a controlled black bear hunt, controlled turkey hunt, extra deer, extra elk, or extra pronghorn controlled hunts, or a designated depredation hunt. In addition, applicants for bighorn sheep, mountain goat or moose controlled hunts are eligible to participate in the second deer, elk and pronghorn application period and in first-come, first-served deer, elk and pronghorn controlled hunt tag sales. ? A person whose name was drawn in an antlered-only controlled deer hunt may not apply for any other antleredonly controlled deer hunt for one year except the person may apply in the second application period and leftover controlled hunt drawings or sales. For example, a hunter who drew a tag in an antlered-only deer hunt in 2016 cannot apply for another antlered only deer hunt until 2018, in the first application period. However, that person can apply for an antlered-only deer hunt in the 2017 second application period during August. ? This waiting period also applies to antlered-only controlled elk hunts. ? There is no waiting period to apply for any other deer, elk, pronghorn or black bear controlled hunt tags. ? The one-year waiting period does not apply to controlled hunts with an unlimited number of tags or Landowner Appreciation tags. Tags: No person may participate in any controlled hunt without a valid controlled hunt tag in their possession. Tags issued based on erroneous information are invalid, and may not be used. Fish and Game will notify the person if the tag has been invalidated. The person will remain on the drawn list, and if there is a waiting period in a succeeding year, the person will be required to wait the specified time period. Controlled hunt tags may be exchanged for general season tags if done before the opening of the controlled hunt. Exchange must be completed at a Fish and Game office, or by sending the original tag along with a written request to have the hunt
 
I still can't figure out why Idaho penalizes successful Elk and Deer draw hunters for a year. I don't think any other state has this system.
Also, If you apply for Moose, Sheep or Goat you are prohibited from applying for any other big game controlled hunt that same year.
Seems to me an individual should be able to apply for everything and hope you get draw for something. Or am I missing something??????
PB
 
>I still can't figure out why
>Idaho penalizes successful Elk and
>Deer draw hunters for a
>year. I don't think any
>other state has this system.
>
>Also, If you apply for Moose,
>Sheep or Goat you are
>prohibited from applying for any
>other big game controlled hunt
>that same year.
>Seems to me an individual should
>be able to apply for
>everything and hope you get
>draw for something. Or
>am I missing something??????
>PB

Yes, you are missing something. If the wait period eliminated, more people will be in the draws and the odds get worse. The same ending if you change how the trophy species draw occurs.
 
"I don't think any other state has this system."

Play the draw game in Utah. Their wait is 5 years, after you're drawn. I wish Idaho would go to two or even 3 year wait!!!
 
"Yes, you are missing something. If the wait period eliminated, more people will be in the draws and the odds get worse. The same ending if you change how the trophy species draw occurs."

The odds on getting drawn are poor now for Elk, Deer and Antelope controlled hunt. The odds for getting drawn for a Moose, Sheep or Goat tag are worse that winning the lottery. I have applied for an Antelope tag every year in unit 37-1 (60tags) and 29-1 (40 tags) for over 10 years and never once drawn. Including the second round draw for the leftover tags. I have never drawn a Deer controlled hunt and only draw an Elk controlled hunt twice and I live here.
Idaho need some type of bonus point system, otherwise the way the system is now you have no guarantee of ever drawing a controlled hunt.
Thats my opinion......fire away.
PB
 
>"Yes, you are missing something. If
>the wait period eliminated, more
>people will be in the
>draws and the odds get
>worse. The same ending if
>you change how the trophy
>species draw occurs."
>
>The odds on getting drawn are
>poor now for Elk, Deer
>and Antelope controlled hunt. The
>odds for getting drawn for
>a Moose, Sheep or Goat
>tag are worse that winning
>the lottery. I have applied
>for an Antelope tag every
>year in unit 37-1 (60tags)
>and 29-1 (40 tags) for
>over 10 years and never
>once drawn. Including the second
>round draw for the leftover
>tags. I have never drawn
>a Deer controlled hunt and
>only draw an Elk controlled
>hunt twice and I live
>here.
>Idaho need some type of bonus
>point system, otherwise the way
>the system is now you
>have no guarantee of ever
>drawing a controlled hunt.
>Thats my opinion......fire away.
>PB

The last thing Idaho needs is a point system. Look around at other states and tell me how great it is. If you put in for hard to draw tags, like 37-1 antelope...you will rarely draw, if ever. A point system wont change that.
 
>The
>odds for getting drawn for
>a Moose, Sheep or Goat
>tag are worse that winning
>the lottery.

Idaho has some of the best odds, especially for residents, on Moose, Sheep, and Goat tags. If your complaining about that system then no system is going to make you happy, because Idaho's OIL draw is by far the best odds in the west.

>Idaho need some type of bonus
>point system, otherwise the way
>the system is now you
>have no guarantee of ever
>drawing a controlled hunt.

You obviously haven't done tons of research on points systems. The hardest to draw tags in any established point system take 20+ years to draw. You state you have only been applying for 10 years, so if we had a points system you would only be halfway to drawing one of those tags. Not to mention that with point creep, you might actually never draw that tag, which is what your complaining about in the first place. Idaho gives you a chance EVERY single year (unless you drew the year before!).

There isn't a better system in the west. No matter what state you hunt, it is going to take years to draw the best tags. Just keep plugging away and you WILL draw tags in Idaho. Sometimes it seems unfair, but people forget that no matter what you are going to be waiting a while to draw the best tags. Why not have a system where you could potentially draw a tag every year instead of a system where you are "Guaranteed" (if the point creep doesn't get you) to draw the tag when you are too old to hunt it hard? It just doesn't make sense.

Many of the points systems in the west are starting to reach a point that they are unsustainable, and yet you want to bring that here. Points is one of the worst things that could happen to Idaho.
 
"You obviously haven't done tons of research on points systems. The hardest to draw tags in any established point system take 20+ years to draw."

I have done research....and I am not trying to draw the most coveted tags offered. I am applying for tags that provide a better opportunity than open areas. I have drawn 5 Elk tags in Arizona over the last 23 years and brought home a beautiful bull every time. I have drawn Kaibab Deer tags 2 times over the last 13 years and brought home great bucks both times. I have drawn an Elk tag in California and brought home that one.
So I do prefer a point system. And there is now way you can guarantee getting drawn in Idaho if everyone is in the same bucket every season. At least with a point system I am guaranteed to get draw sooner or later.
PB
 
The problem you are failing to see here nicerack is that all of those places you mentioned don't offer OTC. Many of the units you can hunt every year in Idaho OTC would be 2-3 or more points to draw in other states. The reality of it is that most deer, elk and antelope controlled hunts have less than 10-1 odds now and that is with people passively applying due to lack of a points system, once they start a point system I see odds only getting worse especially for our next generation who would never be able to draw. Heck even Eastman?s have been taking a stand against points systems as they are becoming unsustainable and states are having to look for new ways to get new money into the systems without pissing off those who have been investing for 20+ years
 
>"You obviously haven't done tons of
>research on points systems. The
>hardest to draw tags in
>any established point system take
>20+ years to draw."
>
>I have done research....and I am
>not trying to draw the
>most coveted tags offered. I
>am applying for tags that
>provide a better opportunity than
>open areas. I have drawn
>5 Elk tags in Arizona
>over the last 23 years
>and brought home a beautiful
>bull every time. I have
>drawn Kaibab Deer tags 2
>times over the last 13
>years and brought home great
>bucks both times. I have
>drawn an Elk tag in
>California and brought home that
>one.
>So I do prefer a point
>system. And there is now
>way you can guarantee getting
>drawn in Idaho if everyone
>is in the same bucket
>every season. At least with
>a point system I am
>guaranteed to get draw sooner
>or later.
>PB

The difference is you are comparing easy to draw tags in other states, to hard to draw tags in Idaho. Like andrew12gauge said, you are comparing other states "general season" tags to hard to draw tags in Idaho. Of course you are going to have more chances at those tags! In Idaho you can hunt almost all draw elk units with a bow in September EVERY single year. Compare that to your 5 elk tags in Arizona, when it could have been 23 tags in Idaho and your looking at a pretty terrible investment in your time and money.

The only example of Idaho tags you are putting in for you gave us is antelope. If you are applying for antelope in 37-1 and 29-1 rifle then you are applying for some of the hardest to draw tags in the state. 4% and 6% odds is not a tag that provides a "better opportunity than open areas." That's a tag that takes 20+ points to draw in a point system.

All antelope tags in Idaho are a tough draw because we just don't have the numbers other states (Wyoming, Arizona, Nevada) have and your antelope choices are some of the hardest of those already hard to draw tags because you are hunting with a rifle. In my opinion, point systems would ruin antelope more than any other species in Idaho because there is WAY too much demand for the limited number of tags. Hunting antelope with a rifle in Idaho would become an old mans sport because the only way to draw a tag would be 20+ points. There is just way too much demand in Idaho and not enough antelope.
 
Not that I'm advocating for a draw by any means, but I hear the argument about OTC in Idaho and how points would ruin that. PB never said anything about changing OTC hunts to a point system and neither have I. But why is it that whenever this topic gets discussed folks refer to OTC tags and talk about point creep? Leave OTC alone and refer to current draw tags. I'm a lifelong Idaho resident who hasn't drawn any tags in 20 years and feel we need something to increase draw odds for those who havent drawn. I know guys/gals that have drawn out 3 and 4 times on GOOD tags and its extremely frustrating. Why is it that we cant come up with some system that increases/decreases odds? Seems logical to me. As we sit today I'm no closer to drawing a fair to good tag than I was 20 years ago....and that's bull$hit. And I said fair to good tags. NOT 5 tag trophy hunts.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-22-19 AT 03:15PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-22-19 AT 03:14?PM (MST)

Jet,

>I went 20 years without drawing
>then hit good mule deer
>tags twice in 3 years.
>


What ^^ said.

A good friend of mine had the same gripe about 20 years without a good tag so we need a draw. In the past 5 years he has drawn 44buck twice(killed a 215"), 44 bull once, and also drew 22 archery deer and 11 muzz elk.

See math has a way of "regressing" to the mean if you are patient. But people are always concerned with their version of "fairness".

So if you had my friends luck over the next 5 years, but after a 20 year drought, would you consider that fair or not?

More importantly, if some youth hunter who couldn't start putting up points was screwed because they couldn't get in on the ground floor, but it benefited you because you could, would that be fair?

If you like point systems, try almost every other state with Mule Deer and Elk. They'll sell you points, even if you never get to use them.
 
Never claimed a point system was the answer. But to your point....is it great if your 10 year old draws a 40 elk tag? Sure it is... But someones 70 years dad never sniffs an elk tag in his life? Then the now 12 year old pulls a 44 bull tag. Happens, and seems to happen to some folks often. I cant tell you how many first time hunters, some young, some old that have pulled great tags in year one or two. Let's not forget residents, and in my opinion (only residents), should and do have OTC opportunity every year. So even if you had a 3 or 5 year waiting period, you're still with a tag in hand. Again, I'm NOT for a true points system, BUT I am for exploring a few minor tweaks to a good system.
 
I've drawn lots of great tags in multiple states with PP or BP's. Some states do a better job than others. Like Nv.Nice to know if you play the game,you will get your chance to hunt the best areas..Point systems work. Bh1
 
>So even if you had
>a 3 or 5 year
>waiting period, you're still with
>a tag in hand. Again,
>I'm NOT for a true
>points system, BUT I am
>for exploring a few minor
>tweaks to a good system.

I am all for longer wait periods. I think 3-5 year wait periods would vastly improve the draw odds over time. I haven't met many people who oppose this so I don't understand why it isn't getting explored further. Decrease in application revenue for the fish and game maybe?

I only brought up general tags above because NiceRack was comparing his easy to draw Arizona tags to hard to draw tags in Idaho. Arizona doesn't have much OTC opportunity, and so those easy to draw tags are their general tags. Compare the general to general is all I'm saying.

If you are going to hunt a bunch of different states and you got in on the ground floor on all the point systems, of course people like them! Those people are going to draw a lot of stinking tags in their lifetimes. If you aren't in on the ground floor, then they really do screw you over, and its only going to get worse.

A lot of these point systems are very young and are already running into sustainability issues. Imagine another 10-20 years down the road. They cannot keep up. Every state with points has point creep. NEVER has a tag gotten easier to draw unless management on that unit has failed. EVERY single tag in a point system has only gotten harder to draw since the point systems inception. A random draw guarantees no point creep! In 10-20 years when people are dying with 30 points in their pockets and haven't drawn a tag since pre-2000, the point systems will truly show their colors. If you are willing to look you can already see them.
 
Random draw systems work as well. If you're only putting in for the top couple tags in the state then expect to wait a long time for a tag if ever. Some get lucky some don't but at least everyone is on the same floor including new hunters.
 
With a true point system, new hunters and youth are mathematically eliminated from the top units .

If you want a true point system, gather your children and grandchildren and tell them they'll NEVER get the hunt they'd love to have . Math doesn't lie . F- a point system. Life isn't fair , a random drawing is . I'm also on board with longer wait time for successful applicants .
 
These numbers might be off a little, just because after the 10% of tags are allotted to non-resident hunters the rest of the non-resident applicants are not considered, but taking the numbers for what they are it should be fairly close. I am not pointing the finger here at any specific person. NiceRack you mentioned numbers in your post so I'll use that as an example but this by no means is directed at you or anything like that. Not trying to be negative at all. In the example you mentioned, applying for antelope, unit 37-1 for 10 years?

Antelope example: Unit 37-1
Year odds/percent tags/applicants
2018 - 0.037 (3.7%) 60/1605
2017 ?0.038 (3.8%) 60/1565

This 3.7% chance is the equivalent to drawing a tag on average every 27 years. 27!! If you apply for this tag you are applying for a tag that has an average of drawing it once every 27 years. This is YOUR choice to put in for that tag knowing the odds and it is just as fair for you to be able to put in for it as it is the other 1604 applicants that applied for the tag and you have the same chance of drawing it as they do. If somebody puts in for that tag for 10 years (a tag that an individual should draw every 27 years) there shouldn't be much of a surprise that you haven't beaten the odds and drawn it yet. At 10 years you haven't even put in for it for ? the amount of years it should take you to draw it (per the odds). The argument for making controlled hunts in Idaho a point system is a selfish argument. Again, I'm not saying you are selfish NiceRack or anybody else specifically, I don't know you and am certainly not the type to call somebody out from behind a computer screen, that's not what I'm doing. Just simply using that 37-1 tag as an example and using the term ?selfish? in a general sense, not directing it at anybody specific. If they started a point system 10 years ago, the year NiceRack initially put in for that tag so you got in on the ground floor and had MAX points from the beginning, it would still take on average for YOU (and all other 1604 applicants that got in on the ground floor with points) 27 years of applying to draw that tag. Yes, some would draw it earlier and some would draw it on that 27th year? Your odds would be no different for the first 27 years. That is if the number of applicants didn't go up when the points game started. Just because you start a points game doesn't mean you have better odds those first (in this 37-1 tag case) 27 years.
Now, take that point system into consideration and add several more applicants to the pool because once the point game starts a lot more people will put in, decreasing the odds of drawing even more. It doesn't increase your odds, it WILL decrease them. Everybody will put their kids and other relatives that normally wouldn't even put in for controlled hunts, in for points, because the points are valuable and it gives everybody a false sense of ?someday I'll get the best tags!?.
Say it adds 20% more applicants to the pool (I have no idea what it would be but it would be fairly significant is my guess). Actually it would probably be more applicants than that as a ton of non-resident applicants would enter the pool but they are still capped at 10% of the tags so it wouldn't change your odds due to more NON-RES applicants (non-resident odds would be astronomical). So, 20% more resident applications added to the already 1605 applicants for unit 37-1 would equate to 321 more applicants. Now you have 1926 applicants for those same 60 tags. Now you have a 0.031 (3.1%) chance of drawing that tag. Now you are looking at an average of 32 years to draw that tag. On a selfish level you would be guaranteed a tag at some point within that 32 years, right? Actually not really, because depending on what type of point system it was you still wouldn't be guaranteed if it were a system like Nevada?s. Utah and Colorado?s true preference point system would get you that tag within the 32 years.
So say you didn't add any additional applicants if it went to points, and it was an average of 27 years to draw that tag. That is ONLY for the people that got in on the ground floor and got a point every year until they drew. Now you draw the tag and you will NEVER see that tag again. It is a once-in-a-lifetime tag at that point but only a once-in-a-lifetime tag for those that got in on the ground floor. Also, just imagine how long it would take for the individuals that were not able to get in on the points game in Idaho the first year it started? How many years would it take for them to draw the tag after waiting for all the applicants that got in on the ground floor, etc. There is a chance that tag is a tag that most people would NEVER have the opportunity to draw, all because of the points game.
The way it currently is, you have a chance to draw that tag, the same chance as EVERYBODY ELSE that applied (nobody can argue that isn't the most fair system) but you shouldn't expect it but once every 27 years. Those are the odds. Yes, some might draw it 2-3 times in 27 years of applying if they are diligent about applying for it and others may not ever draw it, but you have a chance, a chance that you take away from others if you add a point system into Idaho. Again, the points game is a selfish fix in my eyes and not the best route to take for the future of hunting in Idaho. A point game literally takes a fair chance for everybody and makes it a tag that a lot of individuals will never have a chance to obtain, except for the few that are in the game the first year.

There are several things we could do to increase the odds besides take those chances away from future generations; like longer waiting periods, having to choose between deer, elk and antelope just like you have to choose between moose, sheep and mtn. goat (not my favorite choice), maybe you can only apply for 2 of the 3? Maybe if you choose to apply for controlled hunts you can only hunt general hunts every other year (regardless of if you draw a tag or not in the controlled hunt drawing)? There are several ways to limit opportunity but unfortunately there are simply too many people trying to have the most opportunity in Idaho these days and if you don't limit the opportunity to some extent you are going to continue with decreased odds in the controlled drawings and too much competition for all opportunities.

And if you want to hunt top units for animals and want to play a point game, there are plenty of them out there, but I can only pray they never start one in Idaho. I have points in most states and I bet if those systems were all random I would have drawn more tags than I have...

And for the record, I have been putting in for an antelope tag every year since 2002 (with the exception of 2 years that I put in for moose) and the only antelope tag i have had is one I picked up "first come first served" in the second drawing one year. I put in for hard to draw antelope tags (all of them are hard to draw) and it has been since 2002 and I have never "drawn" a tag. mathematically, per the odds, I shouldn't have yet.
 
>Not that I'm advocating for a
>draw by any means, but
>I hear the argument about
>OTC in Idaho and how
>points would ruin that. PB
>never said anything about changing
>OTC hunts to a point
>system and neither have I.
>But why is it that
>whenever this topic gets discussed
>folks refer to OTC tags
>and talk about point creep?
>Leave OTC alone and refer
>to current draw tags. I'm
>a lifelong Idaho resident who
>hasn't drawn any tags in
>20 years and feel we
>need something to increase draw
>odds for those who havent
>drawn. I know guys/gals that
>have drawn out 3 and
>4 times on GOOD tags
>and its extremely frustrating. Why
>is it that we cant
>come up with some system
>that increases/decreases odds? Seems logical
>to me. As we sit
>today I'm no closer to
>drawing a fair to good
>tag than I was 20
>years ago....and that's bull$hit. And
>I said fair to good
>tags. NOT 5 tag trophy
>hunts.

You get a ?fair to good tag? every year, that is what the OTC tags are. Nobody ever said that they have to take away OTC opportunities if they implement a point system but if they implement a point system it won't increase odds for anybody. The tags people complain about drawing are 20-1 odds, it's still gonna take 20+ years to draw with a points system especially when their is an increase in applicants just to get in on the ground floor
 
>Point systems suck. They decrease odds
>of drawing a tag and
>are unsustainable. Just look at
>Utah, Nevada, etc.

I'm pulling out of Colorado. Enough is enough.
 
I used the Antelope draw as one example of the controlled hunts I apply for every year. I also apply for 29 and 37A elk and 28 Buck and have been only draw once for one of those in the last 10 years. I know of one individual that drew one of the 5 available Late Buck hunt tags in 28, 3 times in 5 years of applying. Another 2 individuals that drew unit 37A Bull tags twice in 3 years of applying. Some people are lucky and others are lucky often, I get that. I'm not one of those "lucky" people. So, with all of your analytical mathematics just stated above there is still no guarantee of EVER being draw in Idaho without some type of PP or BP system.
PB
 
>I used the Antelope draw as
>one example of the controlled
>hunts I apply for every
>year. I also apply for
>29 and 37A elk and
>28 Buck and have been
>only draw once for one
>of those in the last
>10 years. I know
>of one individual that drew
>one of the 5 available
>Late Buck hunt tags in
>28, 3 times in 5
>years of applying. Another 2
>individuals that drew unit 37A
>Bull tags twice in 3
>years of applying. Some people
>are lucky and others are
>lucky often, I get that.
>I'm not one of those
>"lucky" people. So, with
>all of your analytical mathematics
>just stated above there is
>still no guarantee of EVER
>being draw in Idaho without
>some type of PP or
>BP system.
>PB

Nice Rack, guess what there are no guarantees in life except one, and not everyone gets a prize. YOUR'E NOT SPECIAL!!!
 
And there is a guarantee that you will draw with a points system?

Tell that to the many point holders throughout the west who will NEVER draw the tag they were after because they are behind the max points by a few years. If you are guaranteed a tag but you won't draw it until your 65+, what good does that do?

(No offense to those 65 year olds out there getting after it. Odds are most of us just can't hunt a tag as hard as we used to by that age.)

>I also apply for 29 and 37A elk and 28 Buck and have been only >draw once for one of those in the last 10 years.

Your 28 buck tag would be a good example of a tag that would take 20+ years to draw (probably more once the system got established.) A point system would be shooting yourself in the foot.

A point system does not make hard to draw tags easier to draw. Plain and simple. In fact, if you pay attention to the number of applicants, they actually increase in point systems, further worsening your odds. Nobody wants to be left out, and that includes grandma, aunt Karen, and everybody else who will now get put in so that they can mentor their points to a kid someday.
 
first thing first, as I mentioned, please don't take this as an attack on you (NiceRack) at all. Like I mentioned in the above post, I only used your example of unit 37-1 because you mentioned it and the numbers were already out there. I could have used any of the antelope hunts as examples...

Second, you are correct. There is no guarantee of ever drawing a tag with the current system. There simply aren't enough antelope in Idaho to give out enough opportunity to everybody and have "good" odds of drawing. So you end up with chances like we currently have (example 3.7% in unit 37-1). A point system doesn't get rid of those odds for a long time, and by then you now have people that it took even those odds away from.

Buck Deer, unit 28, 5 tags available in 2018, 214 applicants for those 5 tags = 0.023 (2.3%)
That is a tag that statistically should be drawn every 43 years.

Bull Elk, unit 37A, 70 tags available in 2018, 386 applicants for those 70 tags = 0.181 (18%)
That is an average of drawing that tag every 5 years (not bad)

Bull elk, unit 29, 180 tags available in 2018, 1215 applicants for those 180 tags = 0.148) (14.8%). That is a tag every 6-7 years. Again, not horrible odds. I'm guessing just by looking at the numbers, the one tag you drew was an elk tag as that is the only tag that in 10 years you should have drawn statistically.

For example, I started applying in Wyoming when they started their point system. I have max points for deer, elk and antelope. 13 years and 13 points later (maybe its 12, I can't remember...), but I still have equal odds as all the other folks that have max points and am not guaranteed a top tier tag still. And won't be for a while. My kid will NEVER be guaranteed one of those tags. A point system only guarantees you will draw a tag at some point, not necessarily a top tier tag. And those tags that are not top tier you will draw in a random draw system as well every so often.

All I'm saying is we either need to close some of the opportunity down like longer waiting periods, etc. or we are going to have those odds. To draw that deer tag every 43 years, even if they started a point system that would jump up to probably more like 1 tag every 50 years and with those numbers you aren't even guaranteed that tag in your life unless you start applying at 12 years old and are diligent about it until you are 62! So yes, some of it comes down to luck with the current system. All of it for that matter. But at least you have the opportunity. I hate to say it but if you start a point system, even that opportunity goes away for most people.

Of course I would love to draw a unit 40 bull elk tag or a 45 buck tag. That would be sweet! And I have a chance to do so if I want to take my chances. But I don't only because I know the odds are so steep. Again, people that want to play the points games, there are opportunities all over, in states that have enough antelope (for example) to give out enough tags that you will have the opportunity to draw a tag. Idaho just doesn't have enough antelope to be able to give out enough tags to have draw odds that are considered "good".

I know this is all political and there are going to be different opinions from all sides, this is only mine. You have to look at the numbers. Point systems are not going to increase your odds of drawing for a long time, they will only hurt them, and furthermore kill them for many people. The only thing a point system does is makes you feel like you will at least get to hunt "that tag" one day, and it actually doesn't and takes away that opportunity for a lot of people. It sucks, but it's reality.

spotnstalkID
 
Buckhunter1,
New hunters would have no line to get into. They would have no chance at those tags so they would be standing in line for something that doesn't exist for them once a point system is in place. Look at the numbers/facts.

I am not saying YOU specifically are selfish, I use the term in a general sense... those that want to be selfish about it and guarantee themselves a tag knowing that it will make it literally impossible for others down the road to have that same tag are the ones that want a point system. Period. Is that really the most fair system? Or is a random draw where everybody has the same chance more fair?

spotnstalkID
 
Idahohnter I agree about the 3 to 5 year waiting period, but Idaho wants the 150$ hunting license every year from NR's.
 
YOUR'E NOT SPECIAL!!!

I do not claim or expect to be special..... This is just a discussion with differing opinions. You have yours and I have mine, that much I am entitled.
And yes as I stated above I am guaranteed a draw with a PP or BP system as I have been draw for the hunts I prefer several times that have the system. Once again I do not seek the most coveted draws. Just better opportunity than open areas. I don't seek the new world record for any of the hunts I apply. I just like the areas that are less crowded. And yes these are selfish choices but aren't we all being selfish when we choose a particular hunt?
PB
 
I don't think that choosing what unit you want to go hunt is being selfish. Everybody can choose the unit they want to hunt and everybody can choose to hunt the same unit you do. The selfish part is when somebody thinks they deserve a tag more often than what they should statistically draw it. To want a preference point system because you haven't drawn a "once-in-every-27-year" tag, in the first 10 years of applying for it is the selfish part. And like I said, start a point game and your odds do NOT increase. They just don't.

Also, "And yes as I stated above I am guaranteed a draw with a PP or BP system" is not necessarily true... A bonus point system doesn't guarantee you anything. Be careful what you wish for, if you start a point game here I bet your odds are literally twice as bad. SOOO many more applicants would enter the pool. The animals are not here to increase the number of tags, so you would have the same number of tags with WAY more applicants and until everybody that started on the ground floor with max points draws, you still have the same chances you have now which are the same as everybody else with max points. It would be the same as a random draw system until all the max point holders were out of the pool and that would be a long time.

Some think it is unfair that they haven't drawn a tag in 10 years of applying.... Start a point game and a lot of others would think it's not fair they will never be able to have the chance at some of those tags.
 
It is sad to see the some hunters still think a point system is a good idea.
They must be using the same "fairness" logic as politicians that try to convince us that socialism is a good idea.
It may seem like a good idea on paper but just like socialism, it doesn't work in the long run.
We have many examples of point systems and socialism not being sustainable but some people still think they are good ideas.
Point systems and socialism drag everyone down to the same level. If someone gets lucky in the draw and gets several good tags in a short time period, I don't have any problem with it because I had an equal chance. Nothing is more fair than a random draw.
 
Brian that pretty much sums it up, this dead horse gets dug up and beaten every year, but at least the vast majority of hunters realize that Idaho's system is the one that works !!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-26-19 AT 06:02PM (MST)[p]Most of the controlled hunts people complain about not drawing all have odds of 10% or worse. Some are only 2-3% for residents now. Putting a bonus point system in place for these will (might) help a little, but still not enough to "guarantee" you a tag the way you want it to. Thumbs down on a bonus point system here!!!

Things that actually would help would be to increase the wait out term from one year, to two or even three years for those successful people who drew an antlered deer or elk tag.

Increase the tag costs 10-20% for all of them and the people who flood the draw with kids, grandmas, and wives who will never hunt would decrease some too.

nstituting a tiered tag price for true quality or trophy rut hunts (deer) and winter range hunts (elk) would really make a difference, and generate a ton more money for the dept.

Actually limit the general archery tags in units to 10% of the tags sold, like the controlled hunt limits, instead of 30-40% like they are now. Trailheads look like NR parking lots!!!
 

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