Murderers Creek Fire

oregonmuley

oregonmuley

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-04-14 AT 12:13PM (MST)[p]Maybe old news already but I just saw this yesterday. Big fire up towards Aldrich again, up to 24,000 acres now. I had hoped to scout up that way this weekend for rifle deer season but guess I now need a "plan B":) Still early I suppose but its sure been a bad fire season so far in Oregon.

http://www.nwccweb.us/information/largefire_info.aspx
 
Fires are good. We need more fires. They should let the natural fires burn themselves out and only jump in when they threaten structures or lives. IMO.
 
I would agree with you if you said that fires CAN BE good. I have seen fires that have improved habitat and health of the land dramatically and I have seen fires that have destroyed the land for decades.
 
>Fires are good. We need
>more fires. They should
>let the natural fires burn
>themselves out and only jump
>in when they threaten structures
>or lives. IMO.

Do you even know where this fire is burning?? I agree that fires should burn and are/can be good for certain areas. This one is in about as bad a spot as you could ask for.
 
No, I didn't even look. I've never been in that country. I do agree that some fires are bad for habitat. But that's the way the ball bounces. I'd love to see the entire cascades burn down. What awesome habitat that would be!
 
Yeah, its tough to get from Bend to Eugene because of all the elk and deer clogging the road running around in that burn :)
 
does anyone know which way its moving towards west or east, i plan on being up there for the archery elk?...?
 
Everything I've hunted my whole life has torched in the area burned, some of it will be for the better some will not. some of those canyons had never been logged, with lots of down stuff to make a super hot fire that will take a century to grow back anything but useless manzaneta.

Fires in eastern OR are good in the fall, not so much in August. if there is any good that may come from it it might be starving out some feral horses this winter. but with them will go some deer and elk as well. all the winter range for that area is toast.

I'm not sure what will happen with the Aldrich sheep herd.












Stay thirsty my friends
 
Not in the burn. maybe if we get LOTS of rain in the next month and get some green up but that's doubtful. I'd stay towards Flagtail and Deer Creek this year. or better yet on the other side of the river in Ochoco where my elk tag is.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-16-14 AT 07:19PM (MST)[p]You mean Izee,from what I've heard no. from the top of Aldrich down to Magic Lantern to the south mostly. some around the mouth of Deer creek from another fire.

Problem is with an area that large burnt, nearly 100 square miles, even if it's not where you hunt it will crowd hunters into what's left.












Stay thirsty my friends
 
While it pushes the people out of a certain area, it also pushes the animals out so you will have more animals in a less area too. Also, don't totally write off the burned area, I would look at it before your hunt and see what kind of tracks are in there and what type of burn it was. If it was a hot, sterilizing burn, there won't be much left and probably not many animals in there other than just passing through. But if it was patchy, there could be some animals running around in there soon after. And if we get a some rain there could be some good regrowth if the fire was not too hot. Its worth a look especially since most people will totally write it off, you may be surprised at what you find in there.
 
I sure don't plan on giving up! Sure my 1st choice area appears to be toasted but I will be checking out an area I used to hunt years ago. I decided to burn 6 preference points this year to get an out of state hunting buddy to come up and hunt muleys with me. Like everyone else I am sad for the area that burned and will take years to recover. But we still plan on going and having a good time regardless of what the hunting will be like. He's bring his 2 boys along for the adventure. It will still be great to be in that unit - good luck to the rest of you that will be there.
 
It wasn't any good before the fire, so while I like your positive attitude I can't relly get into the swing of it. the only thing that keeps me going back is memories of the 60's and 70's hunting that area had. you had to be there to believe it.

I have hunted the shaketable fire area that is now what joins the southfork complex and it was not what I had hoped it would be at all. I know what you mean , sometimes fire can be great but that one wasn't and I fear this one won't be.

I'm not sure excatly what the deer hunting on Aldrich will be like this year or if I'll even go. first the deer go and now even where they used to be isn't the same.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-25-14 AT 11:03AM (MST)[p]Glass still half empty 440?(or totally empty) The "glory days" of the 60's and 70's are long gone, in fact it was 40-50 YEARS AGO. It seems like every post is stuck in the past. Sure things were better in the past but why dwell there, it seems like it robs you (and people who read your posts) of all the joy of hunting. It might be time to put those unrealistic expectations to bed and live in the reality of how things are now. If hunting is no fun for you, maybe take a kid hunting with you. I killed a forkie a few years ago and my boy was with me and you would have though I killed a 200" buck. It adds alot of fun to have that fresh excitement for the hunt. Just my thoughts.
 
Your attitude is why it won't get better. ODFW gets a thumbs up for what they do whatever they do. in a few years you'll say seeing deer is just a bonus , as long as you have a good camp that's what it's really all about.

I'm realistic, I know the good'ol days won't ever return for mule deer hunting in oregon but that doesn't mean I'm fine with what it's become. part of it ODFW can't change, but I am not content with not changing what they can.

Yes maybe I'm a 52 year old fart stuck in the past, so lets forget the 60's and 70's I'd be happy with the the 80's hunting we had.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
I hope you don't mistake my optimism for apathy. I want it to be better for sure and I do all that I can to make it better. Cutting Juniper around springs on my family's property, planting mahogany, petitioning the BLM/ODFW/NRCS to cut juniper around aspen groves and springs that I've found that are being choked out, choosing to let young bucks live (the exception being the year my son was with me:), buying a cougar tag every year and spending some winter weekends hunting them, shooting coyotes during fawning season, avoiding disturbing or stressing deer when I am out in the winter, etc. I'm not content with where our herds are and I am not blind to the fact that they are still in decline, but I am optimistic/hopeful that there can be some improvement and recovery so I work for that. My attitude is the only thing that motivates me to try and help it get better. For me, it would be pessimism that would lead me to apathy. But people are motivated by different things, perhaps pessimism is what leads you to do what you can to help the mule deer and optimism would lead to inaction?
 
Not much I can do bt myself , so I hunt out of state quite a bit. make lemonade as they say.

Why not hold ODFW's feet to the fire? why do we have a deer season at all in units with numbers far below objective? and what about that objective by the way? why let them set it so low in the first place? as a rancher/farmer in eastern OR I can tell you while elk objectives are controvesial deer numbers are not so much. deer just don't do the damage elk do so that should not be used as an excuse to hunt them onto the ESA .

End the deer season where it needs to be, like Murderer's Creek. while that alone may not fix the problem it will have one very large effect on ODFW, preventing them from making money for a job poorly done. tell me what would be a better way to put a boot in their butt.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-26-14 AT 04:31PM (MST)[p]i first hunted Murds crk was 7 years ago n there was a decent number of deer n nice bucks in there, but last two years zilch, i wonder what kills off a deer heard so fast...Lions?...
 
To a large degree yes. 2008 when we had snow on the ground during deer season and during those 2 days before it melted I saw more lion tracks than deer tracks in Jackass and Todd Creeks. that's not an exageration.

I have found many kills in both Murderers Creek and Ochoco. in talking to biologists they'll tell you it's not a major factor , it's habitat. always habitat. just habitat. Bullchit. there were 10 jillion deer in the same areas that have none today and the habitat is in far better shape now. if you didn't see the grazing practices we used to practice you have no idea how much better it is now.












Stay thirsty my friends
 
+1 Growing up on my family's ranch in the East side of the murderer's creek unit there were tons of deer. Herds of 200-300 in the winter ranges. You could find 20 brown sheds in a day, all year long you would see deer constantly. Fast forward to 1994 when cougar hunting with dogs was outlawed and the decline began. A biologist told me in the late 90's that before the dog ban the cougar population had been growing at 3% per year. After the ban it was growing at 15% per year. By the 2000's, the winter deer herds were at 50-100 and by 2010 it was rare to see a deer herd of more than 20. I could find cougar sign almost every time I was out. You can talk to old guys that have spent their whole lives logging, hunting, camping, fishing, etc. and they never saw a live cougar until the last 10-15 years. The habitat is still excellent, there are less tags being given out (though there are still too many given out), fewer being hit by cars, the winters have not been bad (after that bad one in the early 90's) the only real change is cougars (the exception may be some diseases that are also having an impact) If you consider that our cougar population is 5700 (that was in 2006) and each is taking 2 deer per month (not even a reasonable estimate, obviously they have to eat more than twice a month but let's just pretend) that is 136,800 deer per year and with a population of 216,000, you can see that we are taking one step forward with the birth of fawns and two(or three) steps back with cougar kill. Then add in the scum poachers (who take as many or more deer than legal hunters, see http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...w_ssurprising_rate_of_mule_deer_poaching.html) and disease and coyotes and bears and vehicle kills and winter kill, etc. and it is no wonder that the deer are declining rapidly. Something has to give and so far it has been the deer population. The only logical solution is that we need even more predators like wolves to kill even more deer, oh wait, no that will make things 10 times worse.
440, look what you made me do, I went all pessimist all over my self and now I need a good cry. RIP mule deer, we'll miss you.
 
How many days have you hunted cougar exclusively this year and how many have you killed? Quit bitching and get to killing.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------support your local guzzlers. OHA life member,lapine oregon
 
If nobody had anything else to do but hunt lion it might make a dent in the population. get real.












Stay thirsty my friends
 
Baltz,
I'm not one to sit back and talk about what needs to be done and then expect other people to do it. I see cougars as the biggest problem for mule deer herds that I/we can do something about. I spent 6 days hunting only cougars this winter and several times I was close (on tracks but lost them on a big south slope with no snow), if we would have had better snow I feel I could have closed the deal. A buddy of mine killed two this year and was on the tracks of two more with some other guys. I haven't been the one to pull the trigger on a cougar yet but it will be my turn eventually. In addition to my days actively hunting cougars, I have my cougar tag and a gun every time I go shed hunting (50ish days a year)and one of these days I will put one down. Without dogs, you either have to get lucky or put out a lot of effort(and even then there is no guarantee). Realistically, not everyone can be out in the hills as much as I am but if everyone had a cougar tag and was able to shoot a cougar if they happened to see one, we could help the deer population out alot.
I am hopeful and optimistic that things can get better but it will require people choosing to do what they can. Things like hunting cougars/coyotes/bears, turning in poachers (even if they are relatives or friends), writing letters and attending meetings, improving habitat on their private property, advocating for juniper cuts and development of waterholes, petitioning for ODFW to take more aggressive action to control the cougar population (since we are basically double ODFW's target cougar population, weird "coincidence" that the deer population is a about half of their population objective) I do everything I can and just hope everyone else is doing the same.
The fact is that the mule deer decline is a huge problem in every state and no one really knows what to do about it. (if you want to see some real whining go to the Utah forum and read some of the rants about mule deer) I still believe it can be fixed but I guess time will tell. In the meantime we just choose to make the best of the way things are now.
 
ODFW should make cougar tags free and offer Preferance Points for dead cats. More poeple might actually go try to kill one then.

In 34 years in the woods I've only seen 2, one when scouting above the town of Gates in '92 and one in some guys field on the Post/Paulina Hwy about 10 years ago. I didn't have a gun either time, if I did I couldn't have shot the first one becuse you had to actually draw a tag back then and there was no open season when I saw it, the second time I couldn't without shooting it off private and from the HWY.

I'm sorry guys, but with out the use of dogs we'll never get control, no matter how many guys have a tag in thier pocket. I've never bought a cougar tag, I tried like hell to draw one before the dogs were taken away but never did. When they banned the hounds cougar tags should have been issued with a hunting license, to late now. They make money selling cougar tags very, very few use, why change? If they need the cougar tag money triple the price of antelope tags, It seems everyone want to hunt antelope...

I'll stop now.

Ok one more thing, why is it stil legal to hunt bobcat and racoons with dogs??? Makes no sense to me.

OK I'm done. Just dont get me started on the bears!
 

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