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One big X zone?

 
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NECALI
(550 posts)
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May-06-15, 
01:18 PM (MST)
"One big X zone?"

I was talking with one of the big dogs of the Lassen sportsmen club the other day and he told me someone in the CDFW was proposing to erase X1-X6 and make them all one big X zone. Said they didn't have the biologists to keep an eye on all the individual zones. That makes no sense because you would still have the same amount of acreage. Anyone else hear anything about this yet? Sounds like a terrible idea to me.

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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: One big X ...  Spotnstalk80      May-06-15   1 
 RE: One big X ...  oilcan      May-06-15   2 
 RE: One big X ...  NECALI      May-06-15   3 
  RE: One big X ...  sageadvice      May-06-15   4 
   RE: One big X ...  Buckhunter1      May-07-15   5 
    RE: One big X ...  D6native      May-07-15   6 
     RE: One big X ...  Deerdon      May-07-15   7 
      RE: One big X ...  sageadvice      May-07-15   8 
       RE: One big X ...  D6native      May-07-15   9 
        RE: One big X ...  6x7      May-07-15   11 
 RE: One big X ...  st      May-07-15   10 
  RE: One big X ...  sageadvice      May-07-15   12 
  RE: One big X ...  brownie      May-07-15   14 
   RE: One big X ...  Deerdon      May-10-15   22 
 RE: One big X ...  NECALI      May-07-15   13 
  RE: One big X ...  sageadvice      May-07-15   15 
  RE: One big X ...  6x7      May-07-15   17 
   RE: One big X ...  NECALI      May-08-15   19 
 RE: One big X ...  oilcan      May-07-15   16 
  RE: One big X ...  Mallards_On...      May-08-15   18 
 RE: One big X ...  eelgrass      May-08-15   20 
 RE: One big X ...  NECALI      May-08-15   21 
  RE: One big X ...  Deerdon      May-10-15   23 
   RE: One big X ...  NECALI      May-10-15   24 
    RE: One big X ...  Califelksla...      May-17-15   25 

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Spotnstalk80
(109 posts)
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May-06-15, 
04:56 PM (MST)
1. "RE: One big X zone?"

If its a terrible idea and its proposed here in CA it goes on the fast track to approval...

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oilcan
(2772 posts)
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May-06-15, 
05:52 PM (MST)
2. "RE: One big X zone?"

I can see it now they will have to put a traffic cop in X5-B.

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NECALI
(550 posts)
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May-06-15, 
08:37 PM (MST)
3. "RE: One big X zone?"

Your both so right.

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sageadvice
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May-06-15, 
09:05 PM (MST)
4. "RE: One big X zone?"

...also, it is going to hamper those who like to hunt the easier to draw X zones like X-1, x-3s, and X-4. Some of these now, you can plan to hunt regularly from almost yearly to a few years to draw.

I too like it the way it is now and see loads of problems if they were all to become one big zone. Tuff to argue about a lack of funds though...it's happening everywhere.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

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Buckhunter1
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May-07-15, 
07:48 AM (MST)
5. "RE: One big X zone?"

No lack of funds Joey, tons of tax revenue in Calif. They just give it all to the illegals and inmate health care. Deer management, that's a joke n this state.

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D6native
(490 posts)
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May-07-15, 
09:40 AM (MST)
6. "RE: One big X zone?"

Im not sure how to word this , but one of my theories about other states management is that they get a lot of money from nonresidents . Many hunters pump a lot of money into other states with the reasonable expectation of a quality hunting experience . With that expectation in mind , we generally have no problem paying the high nonresident fees . I , for one , would NEVER pay the nonresident fees to hunt CA , with Tule elk being the lone exception . I think if we had a better experience to offer , nonresident money would be a big shot in the arm for our management . However , our hunting is poor enough to drive many resident hunters , myself included , to other states . OTC tags in other states have the potential to be better than the best once in a lifetime tag in CA . Money or not , our management is in the crapper , and will be for the foreseeable future . Rant over , have a nice day .

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Deerdon
(253 posts)
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May-07-15, 
10:36 AM (MST)
7. "RE: One big X zone?"

>Im not sure how to word
>this , but one of
>my theories about other states
>management is that they get
>a lot of money from
>nonresidents . Many hunters pump
>a lot of money into
>other states with the reasonable
>expectation of a quality hunting
>experience . With that expectation
>in mind , we generally
>have no problem paying the
>high nonresident fees . I
>, for one , would
>NEVER pay the nonresident fees
>to hunt CA , with
>Tule elk being the lone
>exception . I think if
>we had a better experience
>to offer , nonresident money
>would be a big shot
>in the arm for our
>management . However , our
>hunting is poor enough to
>drive many resident hunters ,
>myself included , to other
>states . OTC tags in
>other states have the potential
>to be better than the
>best once in a lifetime
>tag in CA . Money
>or not , our management
>is in the crapper ,
>and will be for the
>foreseeable future . Rant over
>, have a nice day
>.
^^^This is a good point^^^
If I were a nonresident, I certainly would not pay $163.65 for a license just to enter the draw here in CA!. This point is even more valid if you look at states like Colorado in which you get a point and much of your application fee back if you are not successful in the draw. AND...there are plenty of OTC tags out there in other states that you could reasonably expect to see more and better class animals. Point is, it takes far fewer points in other states to find much better hunting.
I wonder how many (if any) nonresidents out there have max points for CA? If so = disposable income!

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sageadvice
(11970 posts)
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May-07-15, 
11:40 AM (MST)
8. "RE: One big X zone?"

I hear you guys, again, but i don't think trying to draw in more non-resi's or to compare other States hunting to ours is the answer. We still have what we have, i'm thankful for it, because we have been willing to pay for it.

It's too bad that hunter's dollars aren't dedicated for just the animals that we hunt. They get spread out to manage lady bugs, snails on the beach, and some ugly salamanders too so it gets spread pretty thin.

...but lumping X-1 thru X-6 all together in one big zone is a terrible idea considering, as mentioned above, the quality of some hunts compared to that of others. This to save how much money?

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

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D6native
(490 posts)
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May-07-15, 
12:26 PM (MST)
9. "RE: One big X zone?"

I don't have the answers , but the current management as well as proposed changes are taking this state in the wrong direction . My home zone became a premium tag this year thanks to the rim fire in 2013 and F&G tag cuts in '14 . Now people will have to burn their points to hunt with over 9000 road hunters , certain "ethnic" groups of poachers and the illegal immigrant marijuana issues . Those who burn their points on this zone can look forward to 3%-4% success rates . I know that success isn't everything , but all the B.S. you have to wade through in an attempt to enjoy the hunt can be very frustrating .

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6x7
(1183 posts)
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May-07-15, 
04:22 PM (MST)
11. "RE: One big X zone?"

As far as what I know they don't have a biologist per unit they do have a biologist per county and I am sure some smaller counties are put to get her to give a person more ground to cover.
I worked years ago at a retired lassen county game wardens home and he told me if I don't like the current zone system that I could thank him for it!
He said it was getting way to crowded in what is now x5 area and he told his bosse something needed to be done to control the number of hunters in that area,so that was what started the zone system.
I sure wished I would have gone back to his house to gabb with him more he had all of his work saved in his garage.During his time served as warden he all so was the biologist so he did all the tracking and collaring of the herds he had the migration maps with colored pins in it of the summer and winter areas of the deer he tracked.

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st
(8 posts)
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May-07-15, 
04:16 PM (MST)
10. "RE: One big X zone?"

LAST EDITED ON May-07-15 AT 04:18 PM (MST)

here is a link on the dfg website download the pdf file for the new proposal it looks like they want to propose 10 total units in the state
what is going to happen to everybody's points should this take place?

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/deer/

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sageadvice
(11970 posts)
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May-07-15, 
06:33 PM (MST)
12. "RE: One big X zone?"

st, Thanks for posting that.

I just read it and have arrived at the conclusion that this plan must have been presented by the same people who forced 250 Tule Elk to die of thirst.

The present existing unit map much better recognizes numbers, specie, and the potential quality of our Deer, much better allows the numbers of these animals to be harvested with appropriate hunting, and much better prevents over harvesting the better, more sought out hunting areas.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

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brownie
(391 posts)
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May-07-15, 
07:33 PM (MST)
14. "RE: One big X zone?"

The DFG started the first deer plan and zone system in 1976. If you look at the proposed zone map for the new deer plan, it looks the same.There were ten units to start with in 76'. The department at that time said we need to manage the deer on a herd to herd basis. After a few years they did just that, making our present day, 44 deer units. The story then was "we've talked to the hunting public and they say that they want more bucks, and bigger bucks, and we (The DFG) know how to do it".Thirty nine years later what have we got?
I think we've been duped! At least in 1976 we had a lot of deer in this state. The Round Valley Herd over here in Bishop numbered around 6000 deer, now it is somewhere between 900 to 1200 animals.Probably most zones in the state had big populations back then. If we go back to ten units now and have the same number of tags that we have with our 44 units, theres nothing to stop the hunters from going to the best spot in the zone and mucking out a herd.Sure there might be spots that will have less pressure, but think about this,if we hurt the resource in one part of the unit, the department will be forced to restrict the number of tags. So there will be less hunter opportunity. Let me put it another way, in the Eastern Sierra there are five units right now, X9A,X9B,X9c,X8 and X12. The total number of tags for these five units is 2169 for this year. If you put that many hunters in 1 unit, there's nothing to stop all of them from hunting in x12,that has a quota of 680 right now. Hencefourth,if the deer herd in x12 is hurt, the department will have no choice but to cut the number of tags next year. If we get populations down any more than they are, it will be easy for the anti's to stop hunting all together. Call me a conspearicy theory kind of guy, but I think the new deer plan is part of the big plan to stop hunting an California. Most all of the biologists that work for the department aren't in favor of this plan. This has the anti hunting, DFG's commission name all over it. If you want to keep hunting, you better become vocal, and let the DFW know what you think.

Sorry for the Rant

Brownie

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Deerdon
(253 posts)
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May-10-15, 
10:06 AM (MST)
22. "RE: One big X zone?"

> The DFG started the first
>deer plan and zone system
>in 1976. If you look
>at the proposed zone map
>for the new deer plan,
>it looks the same.There were
>ten units to start with
>in 76'. The department at
>that time said we need
>to manage the deer on
>a herd to herd basis.
>After a few years they
>did just that, making our
>present day, 44 deer units.
>The story then was "we've
>talked to the hunting public
>and they say that they
>want more bucks, and bigger
>bucks, and we (The DFG)
>know how to do it".Thirty
>nine years later what have
>we got?
>I think we've been duped! At
>least in 1976 we had
>a lot of deer in
>this state. The Round Valley
>Herd over here in Bishop
>numbered around 6000 deer, now
>it is somewhere between 900
>to 1200 animals.Probably most zones
>in the state had big
>populations back then. If we
>go back to ten units
>now and have the same
>number of tags that we
>have with our 44 units,
>theres nothing to stop the
>hunters from going to the
>best spot in the zone
>and mucking out a herd.Sure
>there might be spots that
>will have less pressure, but
>think about this,if we hurt
>the resource in one part
>of the unit, the department
>will be forced to restrict
>the number of tags. So
>there will be less hunter
>opportunity. Let me put it
>another way, in the Eastern
>Sierra there are five units
>right now, X9A,X9B,X9c,X8 and X12.
>The total number of tags
>for these five units is
>2169 for this year.
>If you put that many
>hunters in 1 unit, there's
>nothing to stop all of
>them from hunting in x12,that
>has a quota of 680
>right now. Hencefourth,if the deer
>herd in x12 is hurt,
>the department will have no
>choice but to cut the
>number of tags next year.
>If we get populations down
>any more than they are,
>it will be easy for
>the anti's to stop hunting
>all together. Call me a
>conspearicy theory kind of guy,
>but I think the new
>deer plan is part of
>the big plan to stop
>hunting an California. Most all
>of the biologists that work
>for the department aren't in
>favor of this plan. This
>has the anti hunting, DFG's
>commission name all over it.
>If you want to keep
>hunting, you better become vocal,
>and let the DFW know
>what you think.
>
>Sorry for the Rant
>
>Brownie

I actually spoke with the Deer Program Coordinator and he said, as per that hunter survey that went out, the majority of the people indicated that more opportunty was now more important than larger/older age bucks. I will post a full update on my conversation later, but all indications are that things could be changing....but HOW is still up in the air.

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NECALI
(550 posts)
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May-07-15, 
06:48 PM (MST)
13. "RE: One big X zone?"

6x7. I wonder if that's the same warden I had the privilege to talk to several times when out in x5b hunting Sage Hens and fishing. He was a little ornery but had a wealth of information and stories about the old days. He told me you could drive around the Cottonwood Mtns. During deer season and see 24" 4x4's bedded down next to the road. That was years ago in their heyday. To bad we can't manage the predators and get some of those days back. Your hard pressed to find many deer up in those Mtns. now. I think it would be a slaughter in X5b and then onto the next best area if they do this. No win for deer or hunters in the long term.

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sageadvice
(11970 posts)
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May-07-15, 
09:04 PM (MST)
15. "RE: One big X zone?"

OK, i'll take back my cheap shot about the 250 Tule Elk that died of thirst but i'm upset with our Dept of Wildlife right now and here presents itself a dog to kick.

It took quite a few years but these last couple of years after a ton of input from hunters, campers, friends, and what i've gathered here and other sources on the net, i've actually claimed the current Deer management zone system a success.

Those that want the Holy Grail Hunts can wait for them and those that want to hunt yearly can do that too. Why change a good thing?

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

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6x7
(1183 posts)
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May-07-15, 
10:52 PM (MST)
17. "RE: One big X zone?"

>6x7. I wonder if that's the
>same warden I had the
>privilege to talk to several
>times when out in x5b
>hunting Sage Hens and fishing.
>He was a little ornery
>but had a wealth of
>information and stories about the
>old days. He told me
>you could drive around the
>Cottonwood Mtns. During deer season
>and see 24" 4x4's bedded
>down next to the road.

Could be I would have to say by his age he was the warden from the 50's to the early 80's at the most,Did he tell you the story about him and the preacher from susanville going on a hunt when a snow storm hit and that was when it was 3 point or better to be a legal buck?
I did get one bit of info from him that I will keep in the family till we can't hunt no more! and that is the location of where he all ways saw the biggest bucks wintered year in and year out he said he covered every inch of lassen and this spot held the biggest of the big bucks.

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NECALI
(550 posts)
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May-08-15, 
01:21 PM (MST)
19. "RE: One big X zone?"

>>6x7. I wonder if that's the
>>same warden I had the
>>privilege to talk to several
>>times when out in x5b
>>hunting Sage Hens and fishing.
>>He was a little ornery
>>but had a wealth of
>>information and stories about the
>>old days. He told me
>>you could drive around the
>>Cottonwood Mtns. During deer season
>>and see 24" 4x4's bedded
>>down next to the road.
>
>Could be I would have to
>say by his age he
>was the warden from the
>50's to the early 80's
>at the most,Did he tell
>you the story about him
>and the preacher from susanville
>going on a hunt when
>a snow storm hit and
>that was when it was
>3 point or better to
>be a legal buck?
> I
>did get one bit of
>info from him that I
>will keep in the family
>till we can't hunt no
>more! and that is the
>location of where he all
>ways saw the biggest bucks
>wintered year in and year
>out he said he covered
>every inch of lassen and
>this spot held the biggest
>of the big bucks.
>
No he didn't tell me that story. I'm in your MM family, PM me about that big buck location. LOL. Actually with only getting a tag every ten years, it probably wouldn't matter.

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oilcan
(2772 posts)
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May-07-15, 
10:26 PM (MST)
16. "RE: One big X zone?"

+1 Joey agree 100%

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Mallards_Only
(508 posts)
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May-08-15, 
07:04 AM (MST)
18. "RE: One big X zone?"

Where's CDA when you need them?

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eelgrass
(20695 posts)
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May-08-15, 
03:51 PM (MST)
20. "RE: One big X zone?"

Unless the Conservation Areas are different than the hunt zones,(by that I mean keep both), I smell a rat.

Not that I don't trust CA or F&W.

Eel

It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!

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NECALI
(550 posts)
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May-08-15, 
06:29 PM (MST)
21. "RE: One big X zone?"

I was reading the DFW plan and was wondering the same thing. Is there a push to make it all one hunting zone or is it just one of the conservation areas? Anyone know if this whole thing is anything to get excited about or not? Where's our resident F@W officer?

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Deerdon
(253 posts)
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May-10-15, 
10:10 AM (MST)
23. "RE: One big X zone?"

>I was reading the DFW
> plan and was wondering
>the same thing. Is there
>a push to make it
>all one hunting zone or
>is it just one of
>the conservation areas? Anyone know
>if this whole thing is
>anything to get excited about
>or not? Where's our resident
>F@W officer?

I actually spoke with the Deer Program Coordinator and he said, as per that hunter survey that went out, the majority of the people indicated that more opportunty was now more important than larger/older age bucks. I will post a full update on my conversation later, but all indications are that things could be changing, but HOW is still up in the air. To answer your question....YES, if you don't like change, this is something we should all be informed about. If this proposal is adopted, there WOULD be some changes (good or bad is going to be debatable)


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NECALI
(550 posts)
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May-10-15, 
12:57 PM (MST)
24. "RE: One big X zone?"

Thanks for the info.

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Califelkslayer
(4111 posts)
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May-17-15, 
11:58 AM (MST)
25. "RE: One big X zone?"

When I was surveyed, I said "LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!!"

And I clearly told them it isn't perfect but making changes after people have invested 10+ years of building PPs will really P!ss them off and although I burned my PPs last year, I still feel the same way.

So the guy with max PPs can now draw a X1-X6 tag that is worth 3 PPs??????? And hunt X2 or X5B with 100s of others.

Way to go.

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