Trump Health Care Plan

Bolt · Jan 19, 2018

LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-18 AT 06:31PM (MST)[p]NeMont asked what the Trump plan might look like. These were Trumps health care objectives:
__________________________________
"Repeal and Replace Obamacare Act. Fully repeals Obamacare and replaces it with Health Savings Accounts, the ability to purchase health insurance across state lines, and lets states manage Medicaid funds. Reforms will also include cutting the red tape at the FDA: there are over 4,000 drugs awaiting approval, and we especially want to speed the approval of life-saving medications."
_________________________________

This is from bullet point #5 about midway down the page.

https://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368/here-is-what-donald-trump-wants-to-do-in-his-first-100-days

Looks like a great idea that needed to be written into legislation. But we apparently need some Senators that bleed red even though they wear red ties doesnt mean they will stand up for what they claimed they did.

NeMont · Jan 19, 2018

LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-18 AT 05:11PM (MST)[p]

Bolt,
I asked you for his plan that he touted for a year while running for office.

So in your view a "bullet" point about HSA's and Repeal and Replace is equal to a plan that would according to Trump, "I am going to take care of everybody" Who pays for it, "the government"

So show me this plan:

Either he is talking out of his @ss, or he is clueless about the American Health Insurance market. Did he ever approach existing hospitals to swing a better deal with them?

If he had a plan that did all that and was cheaper, what Senator would have voted against it?

Why not just admit he never had a plan that the American people felt was better than what they have now and he didn't try to sell it to them because he knew it was not viable.

It isn't hard to admit he is in over his head on health care and that he is simply wrong and didn't know what he didn't know.

Nemont

P.S. Can you explain in detail how selling across state lines would make Insurance Cheaper and better? I am curious because I have asked others and they respond as if they lack any understanding of how Insurance works or why it is up to the states now to regulate insurance companies doing business inside their state borders?

OchocoKid · Jan 19, 2018

Trump has already said he wants universal health care. I'm not sure he ever has a plan , but if he does it's to screw our healthcare up so bad his idea will be the only option left.

And maybe he's right.

Stay Thirsty My Friends

Bolt · Jan 19, 2018

>LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-18
>AT 05:11?PM (MST)
>
>
>
>
>
>Bolt,
>I asked you for his plan
>that he touted for a
>year while running for office.
>
>
>So in your view a "bullet"
>point about HSA's and Repeal
>and Replace is equal to
>a plan that would according
>to Trump, "I am going
>to take care of everybody"
> Who pays for
>it, "the government"
>
>So show me this plan:
>
>

>
>Either he is talking out of
>his @ss, or he is
>clueless about the American Health
>Insurance market. Did
>he ever approach existing hospitals
>to swing a better deal
>with them?
>
>If he had a plan that
>did all that and was
>cheaper, what Senator would have
>voted against it?
>
>Why not just admit he never
>had a plan that the
>American people felt was better
>than what they have now
>and he didn't try to
>sell it to them because
>he knew it was not
>viable.
>
>It isn't hard to admit he
>is in over his head
>on health care and that
>he is simply wrong and
>didn't know what he didn't
>know.
>
>Nemont
>
>
>P.S. Can you explain in detail
>how selling across state lines
>would make Insurance Cheaper and
>better? I am
>curious because I have asked
>others and they respond as
>if they lack any understanding
>of how Insurance works or
>why it is up to
>the states now to regulate
>insurance companies doing business inside
>their state borders?

His health plan was on his website prior to him being elected along with his other campaign promises. It is no longer there. The reference I gave you is all I can find now.

Can you explain how allowing monopolies in each state such as the blood sucking IHC in Utah is making it better? Are you an American saying less competition is better? Monopolies are better?

When you explain why having a monopoly is better then I will explain why good ol American competition is better.

NeMont · Jan 19, 2018

LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-18 AT 09:45PM (MST)[p]So you are not even going to attempt to explain why selling across state lines would be a fix?

You are saying you want less states rights and a bigger Federal Government. I will guarantee you more Utah residents are covered by Medicare, Medicaid, Indian Heath Service, TriCare or the VA than by IHC. The federal government is a bigger monopoly then any company.

Nemont

DW · Jan 19, 2018

>Trump has already said he wants
>universal health care.
>I'm not sure he ever
>has a plan ,
>but if he does it's
>to screw our healthcare up
>so bad his idea will
>be the only option left.
>
>
>And maybe he's right.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Stay Thirsty My Friends

You're describing your former hero, why aren't you cheering?

#livelikezac

Bolt · Jan 21, 2018

>LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-18
>AT 09:45?PM (MST)
>
>So you are not even going
>to attempt to explain why
>selling across state lines would
>be a fix?
>
>You are saying you want less
>states rights and a bigger
>Federal Government. I will
>guarantee you more Utah residents
>are covered by Medicare, Medicaid,
>Indian Heath Service, TriCare
>or the VA than by
>IHC. The federal government
>is a bigger monopoly then
>any company.
>
>Nemont

So you are saying the Government Monopoly is poor quality health care.

Then you are endorsing a private monopoly. And, assuming it is better than a free market.

NeMont · Jan 21, 2018

LAST EDITED ON Jan-21-18 AT 09:18AM (MST)[p]I have not endorsed anything I asked you to defend your position. Don?t believe Trump knows Shyt from low grade peanut when it comes to health insurance and how to fix it.

You are having trouble answering a simple question. Explain what exactly selling across state lines does to improve the affordability of health insurance.

Explain why self funded multiple employer welfare plans who can and do sell across state lines also see double digit increases in premium costs?

Name a state that says no new companies can sell inside that state.

If you claim it will fix it, then Explain. I love to learn. Let's see some facts

Nemont

Bolt · Jan 21, 2018

>You are having trouble answering a
>simple question. Explain what
>exactly selling across state lines
>does to improve the affordability
>of health insurance.
>
>Explain why self funded multiple employer
>welfare plans who can and
>do sell across state lines
>also see double digit increases
>in premium costs?
>
>
>Name a state that says no
>new companies can sell inside
>that state.

If it wont make a difference then get rid of the rule. Let the market be free.

Bolt · Jan 21, 2018

Not having a hard time answering a question. Just want to get at the core principle of the matter instead of bickering over details.

Do you want a free market or a monopoly?

NeMont · Jan 21, 2018

LAST EDITED ON Jan-21-18 AT 09:25AM (MST)[p]How can there be a free market when the government controls 53% of healthcare?

Name a state that has banned having more health insurance companies from doing business in them.

Why don't you start one to compete in Utah?

Nemont

Bolt · Jan 21, 2018

>LAST EDITED ON Jan-21-18
>AT 09:25?AM (MST)
>
>How can there be a free
>market when the government controls
>53% of healthcare?
>
>Name a state that has banned
>having more health insurance companies
>from doing business in them.
>
>
>Why don't you start one to
>compete in Utah?
>
>Nemont

I have a friend that is a doctor. He agrees with you that selling over state lines will not reduce the cost. He says the AMA controls the amount of doctors. The insurance companies also limit and control which doctors are allowed into a care provider coverage unit. So, with that being the case I suppose I would agree with him and you. The health care issued is likely deeper than just selling across state lines.

So, NeMont, what do you propose to get costs down?

NeMont · Jan 21, 2018

What would you support? 75% of all healthcare spending is on illnesses that are preventable. Since we can't fine people for not having health insurance, how about a 20% surcharge for a chronic illness like lung cancer for anyone who smoked?

I would get rid of the untaxed nature of employer sponsored health insurance. That would do more to get people's attention and bring market forces to bear to begin to deal with the cost of healthcare.

Lots could be done. We know for sure Trump is clueless on the issue and talks out his @ss about red herrings.

Nemont

RELH · Jan 21, 2018

I would get rid of the untaxed nature of employer sponsored health insurance. That would do more to get people's attention and bring market forces to bear to begin to deal with the cost of healthcare.
__________________________________________________________

I have a feeling that the above would mean more customers for Nemont to line his wallet. We also need to regulate the insurance business and medical business to curb their outlandish profit margin they make and get them in line with a more reasonable profit.

RELH

NeMont · Jan 21, 2018

>I would get rid of the
>untaxed nature of employer sponsored
>health insurance. That would do
>more to get people's attention
>and bring market forces to
>bear to begin to deal
>with the cost of healthcare.
>
>__________________________________________________________
>
>I have a feeling that the
>above would mean more customers
>for Nemont to line his
>wallet. We also need to
>regulate the insurance business and
>medical business to curb their
>outlandish profit margin they make
>and get them in line
>with a more reasonable profit.
>

Well then per usual you don't know what you don't know. I get paid over double per group enrollee vs. individual. Group is far less work as well because generally you deal with one decision maker.

I want an affordable market place for health insurance in order to deliver choices and solutions for my clients. You only want to whine about things you don't have a clue about.

Doesn't surprise me a bit that you want to regulate profits and get more government involved, fakers love the free market except when they don't like how somebody makes money.

Nemont

RELH · Jan 21, 2018

I think I hit some thin skin, or is it a guilty conscience getting the best of you. Have a nice day loan shark on the money you make off the backs of those boomers you hate.

RELH

NeMont · Jan 21, 2018

LAST EDITED ON Jan-21-18 AT 09:30PM (MST)[p]

No nerve hit. I am just fine and comfortable in my business practices and the service I provide. You are just too totally stupid to get that.

Is every Fake conservative Californian as big of phoniy as you? Or are you a special Kind of fake small business hating kind of stupid Californian?

When you look in the mirror every morning that guy looking back at you steals his grand children?s future a little more every day. Being the boomer you are the growing debt must make you grin just thinking of the dimmer future you are passing on to them.

Like I said the important thing is that you got yours and that is all a guy like you really cares about.

Nemont

264mag · Jan 21, 2018

I hope by the time I start collecting social security they will quit taxing it.

Bolt · Jan 21, 2018

LAST EDITED ON Jan-22-18 AT 07:23AM (MST)[p]NeMont, quick question. If the law that stops the selling of insurance over state lines has no affect, why do insurance companies defend it, and want it to stay in place? Why do they care about a law that has no affect?

NeMont · Jan 21, 2018

Show where insurance companies defend it. The States defend it because all of them collect premium taxes and regulate the insurance markets inside their states. In addition insurance licensure is by state and each state has different requirements. I am licensed in MT, WY, ND AMD ID. I have to pay each state.

From my view I don't care, let me sell from anywhere. Selling insurance does zero to the cost of healthcare. In addition state control comes with a layer of protection for purchasers of insurance. If you buy a plan from an admitted carrier in Utah, the Utah department of insurance regulates them and if you have an issue with that company or agent the can make either do the right thing.

If you live in Utah and buy a plan from Florida, whose laws apply and who do you go to for help?

Also what does buy a Florida plan do to the cost of healthcare in Utah? Zilch, nada, nothing.

When you buy a house so you deal on the price with the seller or the bank that pays for it?

Nemont

NeMont · Jan 22, 2018

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/...Plan-Sell-Health-Insurance-Across-State-Lines

Maybe you shouldn't get your ideas from Trump. He doesn't care about details or facts.

Nemont

Bolt · Jan 22, 2018

Fair enough. I deal with cities and building permits. I understand local control gives benefits of tailoring your locality to your own preferences and it helps fund local jobs. I imagine that is why they keep it local.

In regards to Trump. I agree, he is guilty of sometimes pandering to the masses, bringing up items that sound good but are not deliverable, and making things sound better than they are. The good side to him is he does try to change things and when he does it is usually along similar belief lines that I have. He is generally conservative and in some instances he is liberal and others he is extremely conservative. I am great with that because he is trying to do his best given the people he is working with and difficult system that moves generally slowly.

Thanks for the discussion on state lines. I thought this was a great point of Trumps. I am still interested in creating a national market and taking down the barriers of state lines to see if it will help. However, it likely wont result in the savings we need. I personally pay 1200 per month for my family. I am a contractor and I dont work for someone that offers insurance. IHC is the main company here in Utah and it is very expensive. I hope we can find a way, as a country, to reduce the costs of health care.

OchocoKid · Jan 22, 2018

We can. universal healthcare. it works for every other developed nation it can work here. the prefect solution to a growing problem ? hell no. just the only solution.

Then we could have private healthcare for those who can afford the insurance which would now be MUCH cheaper if they want it.

This would make our healthcare system EXACTLY like our education system. it's not a new scary concept. but there are two major problems that stand in the way , Nazi republicans and pansy liberals. the Nazi's will be terrified someone is going to get something they need and not have to be humiliated and fight for it. and the libs will say it's unfair because wealthy people will get better health care than poor people.

Robin Hood and Dracula will never find common ground. so it's going to have to get worse before it gets better.

Stay Thirsty My Friends

Bolt · Jan 22, 2018

> We can. universal
>healthcare. it works for
>every other developed nation it
>can work here. the
>prefect solution to a growing
>problem ? hell no.
> just the only solution.
>
>
>Then we could have private healthcare
>for those who can afford
>the insurance which would
>now be MUCH cheaper if
>they want it.
>
>
> This would make our healthcare
>system EXACTLY like our education
>system. it's not a
>new scary concept. but
>there are two major problems
>that stand in the way
>, Nazi republicans and pansy
>liberals. the Nazi's will be
>terrified someone is going to
>get something they need
>and not have to be
>humiliated and fight for it.
> and the libs will
>say it's unfair because wealthy
>people will get better health
>care than poor people.
>
>Robin Hood and Dracula will never
>find common ground.
>so it's going to have
>to get worse before it
>gets better.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Stay Thirsty My Friends

Ok, lets say we do go with Universal Healthcare. Why not allow private hospitals, private doctors, and private insurance all to compete for the health of the nation?

Our public transportation system does this. The government pays contractors to do a job. Why do the doctors and insurance agents need to work for the government?

NeMont · Jan 22, 2018

>
>Ok, lets say we do go
>with Universal Healthcare. Why
>not allow private hospitals, private
>doctors, and private insurance all
>to compete for the health
>of the nation?
>
>Our public transportation system does this.
> The government pays contractors
>to do a job.
>Why do the doctors and
>insurance agents need to work
>for the government?

How is that you believe insurance agents or doctors work for the government? I have been a broker for 23 years and have never once been paid a commission by the government.

Competition in the health care industry doesn't exist in most cases. If you are in an accident you don't stop the ambulance to shop for the cheapest care, if you have high risk pregnancy you don't go to the cheapest because Insurance pays, you try to go to the best.

Also there isn't a classic supply and demand market place for health care. Some day to day stuff is always going to be scheduled but a health crisis and/or a dread disease are not planned purchases that allow one to do their due diligence and make a choice of providers. Emergency rooms don't exist to have a patient decide whether or not they should use one over another. In rural areas there is usually one choice for a Hospital and what ever doctor is on call.

Nemont

OchocoKid · Jan 22, 2018

That is how it seems to me as well, competition just isn't practical here anymore than where your electricity comes from. it's just not going to work.

If there is an alternative to universal healthcare nobody in the world has found it. so it's going to take the smartest guy in the world to find it if it's even a possibility. one thing is for damn sure , we don't have the smartest man in the world within 1000 miles of Washington DC so I have little hope .

Stay Thirsty My Friends

NeMont · Jan 22, 2018

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisl...er-a-free-market-in-health-care/#52dffb121147

interesting take.

Bolt · Jan 22, 2018

>
>>
>>Ok, lets say we do go
>>with Universal Healthcare. Why
>>not allow private hospitals, private
>>doctors, and private insurance all
>>to compete for the health
>>of the nation?
>>
>>Our public transportation system does this.
>> The government pays contractors
>>to do a job.
>>Why do the doctors and
>>insurance agents need to work
>>for the government?
>
>How is that you believe insurance
>agents or doctors work for
>the government? I
>have been a broker for
>23 years and have never
>once been paid a commission
>by the government.
>
>Competition in the health care industry
>doesn't exist in most
>cases. If you are
>in an accident you don't
>stop the ambulance to shop
>for the cheapest care,
>if you have high risk
>pregnancy you don't go to
>the cheapest because Insurance pays,
>you try to go to
>the best.
>
>Also there isn't a classic supply
>and demand market place for
>health care. Some day
>to day stuff is always
>going to be scheduled but
>a health crisis and/or a
>dread disease are not planned
>purchases that allow one to
>do their due diligence and
>make a choice of providers.
> Emergency rooms don't exist
>to have a patient decide
>whether or not they should
>use one over another.
>In rural areas there is
>usually one choice for a
>Hospital and what ever doctor
>is on call.
>
>Nemont

Mr NeMont, I was responding to Oochie. He was saying Universal Health Care. I was saying if we go there lets not do it like England where the doctors and nurses work for the government.