No it's not Watergate....BUT

Boskee

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here's a great article by Victor Hanson that outlines the recent actions and event surrounding the FISA MEMO. He links together some of the events and claims surrounding the events. In the end he summarizes why more sunlight is needed to fully understand but he questions why some of the players involved stories don't hold up and why their actions are questionable and highly suspect. it's a good read.

THE TICKING MEMO

by VICTOR DAVIS HANSON February 2, 2018 9:55 PM @VDHANSON

The House Intelligence Committee memo is pretty simple. It should not have been classified and thus far withheld from the public. In fact, far more information now needs to be released. Despite the outcry, as Chairman Devin Nunes clarified, the memo can easily be in the near future supported or refuted by adducing official documents. In other words, the memo makes a series of transparent statements and leaves it up to the criminal-justice system and the public to ascertain subsequent criminal liability. It is likely that the basic accuracy of the document will not be questioned, but rather opponents, some of them mentioned in the memo, will either ask why the resulting embarrassing information needed to be aired or insist that there are only minor possible crimes in the events it narrates, or both.

Remember, officials from the FBI supposedly read the memo before its release to ensure that there were not factual errors or misrepresentations. In sum, on four occasions during and after the 2016 campaign, the FBI and DOJ approached a federal FISA court ? established to allow monitoring of foreign nationals engaged in efforts to harm the U.S. or American citizens deliberately or inadvertently in their service ? to surveil Carter Page, a sometime Trump adviser.

These requests also mentioned George Papadopoulos, apparently as a preexisting target of an earlier investigation by FBI official Peter Strzok, but according to the memo mysteriously there was not adduced any direct connection between the two individuals? activities.

The basis of the requests was an anti-Trump dossier that the FBI and DOJ had purchased from a private concern. At the time of their various requests, FBI director James Comey and his deputy, Andrew McCabe, apparently knew that the document was the work of an opposition-research team, hired and paid, through a series of intermediaries, by the Clinton campaign.

The same knowledge supposedly was known to DOJ officials Sally Yates, Dana Boente, and Rod Rosenstein, who variously joined the FISA requests. The FBI and DOJ requests to the court were also apparently bolstered by citing news accounts in the popular media about possible Russian collusion, which in circular fashion had been the result of efforts by the authors and purveyors of the dossier to leak its contents to the media.

On various later occasions, high FBI officials purportedly admitted to the congressional inquirers both that the FISA requests would not have been made without use of the dossier, and yet its contents could not be verified or in fact were scarcely yet scrutinized.

Apparently, no FBI or DOJ officials informed the court over the duration of these various requests that a) the dossier was paid for by the Clinton campaign, b) the FBI in turn apparently paid to obtain it, c) supporting news stories used to substantiate the dossier were the result of deliberately leaking the same document to seed stories in media organizations, or d) a DOJ official both met the author of the dossier and informed the FBI that he was a biased source ? but either did not inform other DOJ and FBI officials that his own spouse was a collaborator who worked on the dossier, or such knowledge was known to DOJ and FBI officials but not passed on at some point to the FISA judge, apparently because the court might not have otherwise approved of the request or might have acted to revoke prior requests.

What Is the Larger Context? What does it all mean ? both the memo itself and subsidiary public revelations about the Strzok-Page texts, and the circumstances around the firing or reassignments of several DOJ and FBI top officials? I don't think there is any more doubt that the candidacy of Donald Trump terrified top officials of the Obama DOJ and the FBI, James Comey especially.

A few may have genuinely believed Trump was a beneficiary of Russian efforts at collusion; more likely, Comey, McCabe, and Strzok may have believed that such a charge was unlikely but still useful as a means to thwart the idea of a Trump presidency.

Either way, the DOJ and the FBI deliberately distorted the nature of the FISA court process by either withholding information that they knew would likely negate their requests or misrepresenting the nature of the evidence they produced.

It is also clear from the contacts between Mr. Simpson, Mr. Steele, and representatives of the DOJ and FBI, and the employment of Ms. Ohr on the dossier team, that there were conflicts of interest at best, and, at worst, collusion between Obama DOJ and FBI officials and the de facto contractors hired by the Clinton team to find ways of disseminating supposedly embarrassing information before the November 2016 election.

The larger landscape around the memo?s revelations was not just that DOJ and FBI officials were disturbed by the Trump candidacy. They were also likely assuming that he would not be elected, and thus any questionable efforts to ensure that Trump was not elected might not be investigated in an incoming Clinton administration, but perhaps in some way even rewarded.

The Scope of the Memo So far, none of the congressional committees have released information about the actual scope and effects of these and possible other FISA court orders ? and to what degree, if any, other American citizens were surveilled and whether such resulting surveillance was used by the Mueller investigation to indict individuals, or whether the names of U.S. citizens in such reports were illegally unmasked by Obama officials and then leaked to the media.

We are told such information is coming. Would there ever have been a Mueller investigation without the DOJ and FBI efforts to persuade the FISA court?

Would the prior investigations by Peter Strzok (who later expressed strong dislike of Donald Trump and worried over his candidacy to the point of meeting and commiserating with Andrew McCabe) into George Papadopoulos on their own have sustained a subsequent Mueller investigation, or was such a weak agenda to be resuscitated by the FISA surveillance? (I.e., was some impetus for the FISA warrant request an effort to find something that might energize the Strzok efforts?) And who was the FISA judge or judges, and are we to believe that he or they could not have asked a simple question concerning the nature and origins of the dossier?

Was he incompetent, biased, or representative of the dangerous tendency of judges to rubber-stamp such FISA requests?

Is This a Scandal?

If all this is not a scandal ? then the following protocols are now considered permissible in American electoral practice and constitutional jurisprudence: An incumbent administration can freely use the FBI and the DOJ to favor one side in a presidential election, by buying its opposition research against the other candidate, using its own prestige to authenticate such a third-party oppositional dossier, and then using it to obtain court-ordered wiretaps on American citizens employed by a candidate?s campaign ? and do so by deliberately misleading the court about the origins and authors of the dossier that was used to obtain the warrants.

Some Historical Context

Watergate was about largely failed presidential cover-up attempts to enlist the CIA and FBI to squash an investigation into a politicized burglary. Iran-Contra was supposedly about rogue administration officials trying to circumvent the law by providing arms to a foreign government to release hostages and thereby obtain cash to help perceived friendly foreign agents without knowledge of and in contravention of Congress.

The current internal efforts in the middle of a campaign to weaponize the FBI and DOJ are something new. And it illustrates a larger effort of the prior administration to warp FBI investigations of Hillary Clinton?s unauthorized and illegal email server and other purported improper behavior, as well as efforts of Obama-administration officials to improperly request unmasking of improperly surveilled Americans for improperly political purposes.

These efforts come on top of previous attempts to politicize the IRS in order to oppose perceived political opponents and to monitor journalists reporting stories deemed unfavorable to the administration.

Finally, unlike past administration scandals, when the press posed as custodians of the public interest and demanded transparency from government agencies, this time around the media are arguing for secrecy and suppression of documents, and are unconcerned with likely violations of the civil liberties of American citizens by overzealous federal officials likely breaking the law.

What about the FBI? There is much worry that the memo?s release will hurt the FBI. But such concern is predicated on the definition of the FBI. If the agency is defined as its top echelon, then, yes, the FBI?s highest officials are discredited, the now-compulsive tweeter James Comey especially.

But if the FBI is defined by thousands of rank-and-file professional agents, then the agency is not only not discredited, but empowered by a timely reminder that true patriots at the FBI never break federal law on the dubious rationale that their purportedly noble ends justify any means necessary to obtain them.

No one forced FBI director James Comey to withhold critical information from a FISA judge in order to surveil American citizens, or to purchase an opposition-research dossier from a political campaign in the middle of an election cycle. Nor did anyone force Comey to leak confidential notes of a meeting with the president of the United States to the media in a deliberate effort to force appointment of a special counsel.

Comey swore that he did not write his letter of legal exoneration until after interviewing Hillary Clinton; we now know that was likely also a false statement. Comey also changed the wording of his original draft to ensure Hillary Clinton?s immunity from possible criminal liability.

No one forced the FBI?s top lawyer and recently reassigned general counsel, James Baker, to leak elements of the so-called Steele dossier to the media during the 2016 campaign No one forced Peter Strzok and Lisa Page to conduct a romantic affair via FBI secure phones, a texting correspondence that revealed that they both were prejudicial to the object of their own then-current investigation, Donald Trump, or to meet with Andrew McCabe to commiserate about their mutual dislike of Donald Trump.

Note that their departures from the Mueller collusion investigation were not immediately announced, but rather such news was released months later to suggest that the reassignments were neither connected nor out of the ordinary.

No one forced a compromised Andrew McCabe to continue with the Hillary Clinton email investigation, despite the fact that his wife had recently received several hundred thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from a Clinton-affiliated political-action committee. No one forced him to concede that without the use of the dossier, FISA warrants would have been unlikely.

Who Will Be Held Accountable?

Many of the those with possible criminal exposure have already either been fired (Comey, McCabe), reassigned (Page, Strzok, Ohr), or are considered sacrosanct (Obama, Loretta Lynch, etc.). Rod Rosenstein?s fate is, for now, largely a political matter, and only later a legal one.

Still, a special counsel might indict a number of officials for deliberately misleading a federal judge, or violating statutes prohibiting the surveillance of American citizens, or lying while under oath, or he might retract indictments and confessions based on deliberate misrepresentations to a federal judge.

A bipartisan 9/11?like commission could at least issue a report and recommendations to ensure that the DOJ and FBI never again intervene in a U.S. election.

By all means, let us see the transcript of the McCabe interview, the Democratic minority memo, the actual FISA court requests, the complete text trove of Page and Strzok, the prior administration?s requests to unmask surveilled American citizens, Clinton-campaign communications about the procurement of the dossier, and the transcripts of those surveilled.

We need to find out whether Russian collusion and interference into the 2016 election was far more devious and complex than believed and whether it involved seeding the research behind the Clinton campaign?s purchased oppositional dossier in order to undermine a U.S. election, leading to the greatest irony of all: a special counsel investigating what likely did not happen while ignoring what likely did ? perhaps the greatest political scandal of the modern age. At this point, the only cure for the wound is far more light.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/456084/nunes-memo-fbi-doj-corruption-ticking-memo
 
Just read in NVB......

Pretend it's penthouse forum....

497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
Hillary, the one person most of us agree should be in jail, will not go to jail. Hoping and believing she will are going to be just as disappointed as those who are hoping Trump will be impeached. Maybe I'm wrong but I believe no one important will go to jail. Maybe some underlings will get sacrificed but that's all. This isn't their first rodeo.
 
The bottom line, even of no one goes to jail, is that many fence sitters will come away with a very dim view of what the Democrats tied to do and will have even more distrust of the Democrat party that tried to buy an American election.

Something we only saw in banana countries until now.

RELH
 
The silence from Tog, Corn, and I forget the other wacked out lib is palpable . The Clinton Obama machine is very large and powerful....it's even more DIRTY . Sadly the Lamestream media will fight this tooth and nail if there is even a sliver of doubt that they can hold on to they will hang on tight and many naive Americans will not see what just happened.
 
NVB said;
>Do you really think anybody's gonna
>read all those novellas you
>post?


A lot of people post a lot of long winded BS from questionable sources.
VICTOR DAVIS HANSON is not one of those.
He is sharp, and his insight into the world of politics is well worth reading. He consistently sees the big picture that so many in the media miss.
 
I'm sorry NVB it's hard to focus all subjects around green eggs and ham, or smerfs to keep it within your wheel house. It's a freedom of the press thing I can't limit their articles content length.

The issue here is possible unlawful usage of surveillance laws which has previously been done by the Obama administration. Since you don't think it's important that's your choice but most of us on here prefer our law enforcement agencies following our laws not circumventing them. If you want the laws changed fine then do it but allowing folks access to all your phone calls, computer traffic and personal contacts on a whim, can take us as a nation to a really dark place. So why isn't the press covering that? HMM
 
Boozie said:

>I'm sorry NVB it's hard to
>focus all subjects around green
>eggs and ham, or smerfs
>to keep it within your
>wheel house. It's a freedom
>of the press thing I
>can't limit their articles content
>length.

Well aren't you all high and mighty? You don't even know me or what's in my "wheel house". Thank you for taking time from your busy diplomatic circuit to bless us with your insight.




>
>The issue here is possible unlawful
>usage of surveillance laws which
>has previously been done by
>the Obama administration.

I can see what the issue is. I just commented on the length of your latest couple of reading assignments to the class. In case you forgot, this is the frickin internet, not a college lecture series.


>Since you
>don't think it's important that's
>your choice but most of
>us on here prefer our
>law enforcement agencies following our
>laws not circumventing them.

Ummm... where did I say I don't think it's important? You people sure are easily offended. You act like you're really gonna prove something to the world. I remind you, there are less than 15 regular participants on this forum. The world will not be changed by your posts.

If
>you want the laws changed
>fine then do it but
>allowing folks access to all
>your phone calls, computer traffic
>and personal contacts on a
>whim, can take us as
>a nation to a really
>dark place. So why isn't
>the press covering that? HMM
>

I was not familiar with the author of your quoted article (which by the way by virtue if the fact it's an article means the press is covering it) so I just googled him quickly. Interwebs says he a... registered Democrat! And Jesus wept!!!
 
There will be a quiz Monday morning

Now I understand why you guys like him.


Hanson is a registered member of the?Democratic Party, but he is also a traditional?conservative?who voted for?George W. Bush?in the?2000?and?2004 elections.[16]

He has been described as a?neoconservative?by some commentators, for his support of maintaining U.S. troops to rebuild society after successful military interventions,[17][18]and has stated, "I came to support neocon approaches first in the wars against the Taliban and Saddam, largely because I saw little alternative."[19]?In 2005, Hanson wrote of why he did not find the?Democratic Party?populist or reflective of its prior concerns: "The Democratic Party reminds me of the Republicans circa 1965 or so?impotent, shrill, no ideas, conspiratorial, reactive, out-of-touch with most Americans, isolationist, and full of embarrassing spokesmen."[20]

More recently, Hanson has appeared to reject the term neoconservative, writing in a 2016 column "Hillary's Neoliberals" that the term neoconservative was coined in the 1970s to describe liberals who moved right on social issues and on maintaining deterrence during the?Cold War.[21]?Hanson has critiqued the decision of several neoconservatives to declare their support for?Hillary Clinton?as preferable to?Donald Trump?on grounds that Clinton has a long history of abuse of office, and is mired in scandal over violations of national security statutes as well as influence peddling between the?Clinton Foundation?and the State Department. Hanson has attacked these neoconservatives as "neoliberals" who were never entirely proper conservative, arguing that these people had joined the Republican Party out of distaste for the Democratic Party, which had nominated as the presidential candidates?George McGovern in 1972?and?Jimmy Carter in 1976?as opposed to converting to conservatism.[21]?Hanson ended his column that there were now two emerging factions in America ? the proverbial ordinary Americans supporting Trump vs. the elites of both the Democratic and Republican parties supporting Clinton.[21]?Hanson wrote: "A mostly urban, highly educated, and high-income globalized elite often shares more cultural and political affinities with their counterparts on the other side of the aisle than they do with the lower-middle and working classes of their own parties. Just as Hillary Clinton may feel more comfortable with the old neoconservatives, Trump supporters have little in common with either Clintonites or neocons. Clinton versus Trump is a war of?NPR,?CBS, and the?New York Times?against the?National Enquirer,?conservative talk radio, and the?Drudge Report. Clinton supporters such as former New York mayor?Michael Bloomberg, onetime Bush officials?Hank Paulson?and?Brent Scowcroft, and billionaire?Meg Whitman?certainly have nothing in common with Republican Trump supporters such as?Mike Huckabee?and?Rush Limbaugh. Culture, not just politics, is rapidly destroying?but also rebuilding?traditional political parties."[21]

Hanson was a defender of George W. Bush and his policies,[22]?especially the Iraq War.[23]He was also a vocal supporter of Bush's Secretary of Defense?Donald Rumsfeld. Hanson wrote of Rumsfeld that he was: "a rare sort of secretary of the caliber of?George Marshall" and a "proud and honest-speaking visionary" whose "hard work and insight are bringing us ever closer to victory".[24]

On the issues pertaining to the constant political turmoil in the Middle East, Hanson emphasizes the lack of individual and political freedom, as well as transparency and self-critique, in many Middle Eastern nations as a major factor retarding economic, technological and cultural progress. He further relates the root cause of radical?Islamic terrorism?to insecurities resulting from a failure to achieve parity with the West, and a reactionary need to regain honor and pride.[25]

Iraq WarEdit

Hanson believed that the?Iraq War, given the repeated serial violations by Iraq of UN sanctions, congressional mandates, and the threats that?Saddam Hussein?posed, in a post-9/11 climate, to the long-term security of the Middle East, was a necessary and worthwhile undertaking?and was, after a flawed occupation, eventually a laudable success that had led to a workable government in 2009 and relative calm in Iraq: analogous to the foundations of the successful American occupation of South Korea in the latter 1950s that led to the democratic society of today. However, he stated in 2008 that he, "...?disagreed with many of the decisions made about the Iraq war," such as the dissolution of the old?Iraqi army.[19]

Hanson argued that?the "surge" of 2007?had largely won the Iraq War by the beginning of 2009, and that rise of the Islamic State terrorist group which seized control of much of Iraq in mid-2014 was the result of what Hanson sees as the unwise withdrawal of all American troops from Iraq in December 2011, which he blames on the Obama administration.[26]?Hanson argued that if only American troops had stayed in Iraq after December 2011, then the government of Prime Minister?Nouri al-Maliki?would have been less sectarian and the Islamic State group would have never emerged.[27]?Hanson argued that the December 2011 withdrawal from Iraq was motivated to help improve Obama's chances of reelection in 2012, an act that he compared to being equivalent to the United States pulling its troops out of South Korea in 1955, arguing if only the Americans had stayed in Iraq, then that nation would have evolved into a Near Eastern version of South Korea.[28]

America and the worldEdit

In 2004, Hanson gave a mostly favorable review to the book?Colossus?by the British historian?Niall Ferguson, where Ferguson argued that the United States should be an imperial power in the sense of preserving the post war order of global free trade, communications, and commerce, and the principal problem with Americans was that they were unwilling to embrace global leadership in the same way that people in 19th century Britain did.[29]?Hanson found much to approve of in Ferguson's book, writing: "In reality, we should be natural imperialists, given our wealth and expertise. Americans are also endowed with an exceptional moral sense. We are a generous people, whose checkered imperial interventions in the past rarely proved profitable or exploitive."[29]?Hanson agreed with Ferguson that the principle problem with Americans was an unease at playing the role of an imperialistic power, argued that post-1945 histories of Germany and Japan proved the beneficial results of American occupation and predicted that Iraq under American occupation would become just as much a prosperous and democratic society as Germany and Japan are.[29]?Hanson praised Ferguson for his defense of the British Empire as a benevolent force and his thesis that the United States should play the same role in the world as the British Empire, writing: "Does Ferguson propose a new American liberal empire? In fact, he does almost, but not before noting that the British Victorians themselves got a bad rap as exploitive colonialists. In fact, the record of the 18th and 19th centuries prove exactly the opposite: Former and once-prosperous colonies, following autonomy, quickly turned into self-induced miseries, while Britain itself thrived as never before once free of these costly obligations. Empire turns out not to be a means of making money, but instead an idealist pursuit to keep sea lanes open, bullies at bay and nations trading rather than fighting. The world has been lucky to have the Americans fill this vacuum, inasmuch as the British once did a pretty good job of it as well."[29]?Hanson, well before the immigration and financial crises of the EU, also praised Ferguson for his very negative picture of the?European Union?as being both "busy triangulating with our enemies" and "running huge trade deficits with us as we supply their own security needs." He cites appears to agree with Ferguson that Europe is undemocratic, and statist, but that with a population in decline and even worse entitlement overspending than the US, a more broken melting pot, and socialist response to these issues ensuring Europe will be unable generate the unity or idealism required to supplant the US.[29]

Israeli?Arab conflictEdit

In his article?Israel did it, Hanson asked why Israel, during the 2006 Lebanon war, was being blamed for responding to attacks by?Hezbollah.[30]?Hanson, who was critical of the Middle East policies of the administration of Barack Obama and accused the Obama administration of distancing itself from Israel, despite its exceptional position as a tolerant Western nation in the Middle East, and of preferring the Palestinian Authority and Hamas despite being anti-Western.[31]

Race relationsEdit

Hanson has often argued that in a 21st-century multiracial America there is little overt racism on the part of whites, and that generic complaints of racism too often are automatic from an often privileged African-American elite that uses such charges of racism to advance careerist concerns not often synonymous with those in the inner city.[32]?In reference to the?Gates affair?in which the Harvard professor?Henry Louis Gates?was arrested in his home when a white policeman responded to a report of a possible break-in, Hanson argued that the policeman's actions were understandable given that "...?African-American males commit crimes at rates both higher than the general population's, and at levels higher than other minority groups that likewise struggle with poverty and systemic unfairness."[33]

In a 2012 column titled "The New Racial Derangement Syndrome", Hanson argued again that class considerations now more often trump racial differences, and that racism in modern America is not confined to any one particular group, citing various statements by prominent African-Americans such as?Morgan Freeman,?Samuel L. Jackson,?Jamie Foxx,?Chris Rock?and?Rob Parker?that he saw as racially chauvinistic and often blatantly anti-white, and thus as signs of a new "racialist derangement" sweeping across black America that had set back considerable progress in making racial considerations prior to 2009 incidental rather than essential to an American citizen's identity.[34]?In a 2015 column titled "The Weariness of the Whiners", Hanson illustrated the paradoxes of race and class, by illustrating the talk show hostess?Oprah Winfrey?claim that she was a victim of racism when a clerk at the?Trois Pommes?boutique refused to display a $38,000 handbag to her.[32]?In a 2016 column "The New Segregationism", Hanson lamented growing racial polarization, mostly on the part of elites who take refuge in racial chauvinism when their own careerist concerns are unmet. He used as an example of what he sees as the unlikelihood of the claim that there is anti-black racism in modern America in the complaint by the actor?Will Smith?that he was not nominated for an Oscar.[35]

Hanson has been critical of the group?Black Lives Matter, which he maintains is a group based on "racial chauvinism" and "whining" which has told a "series of lies"?beginning with the "hands up don't shoot" untruth in the Ferguson shooting of Michael Brown?about the supposedly statistically-proven epidemic of police killings of black men, the majority of which Hanson argued were found to be justified on the basis of current police practice and protocols.[36]?Hanson claimed that responsibility for declining racial relations often rested with?Barack Obama, whom Hanson suggested had deliberately inflamed racial tensions between whites and blacks, with a series of gratuitous and racially charged commentaries, dating from the 2008 campaign to editorializing about the Trayvon Martin killing case, as a way of securing the votes of black Americans for the Democrats.[37]?Hanson faulted Obama for having "...systematically adopted a rhetoric and an agenda that is predicated on dividing up the country according to tribal grievances, in hopes of recalibrating various factions into a majority grievance culture. In large part, he has succeeded politically. But in doing so he has nearly torn the country apart. Indeed, it is no exaggeration to suggest that no other recent president has offered such a level of polarizing and divisive racial bombast."[38]

Hanson has also been consistently critical of unchecked and unmonitored illegal immigration into the United States from Mexico and the Central American republics, which he sees as threatening to overwhelm the United States with millions of Spanish-speakers who make assimilation difficult and some of whom he charges have criminal records and do not establish a record of work history. In a 2014 column "1984 Redux: Orwellian Illegal Immigration" Hanson wrote that Hispanic groups that use the name?La Raza?are racialists who have "hijacked" America's immigration policy to permit non-diverse, illegal, and unrestricted illegal immigration into the United States to further demographically-based political agendas, and who have made often false claims of suffering continual racial prejudice from a supposed prejudiced white majority, while arguing that Latinos as members of La Raza should keep themselves separate from the rest of Americans.[39]?Hanson has condemned groups such as the?National Council of La Raza?as he argued that term?La Raza?has an unfortunate history as a "racialist term," whose origins he claims go back to?fascist Spain?of General?Francisco Franco?and?Benito Mussolini's?fascist Italy, and those Mexican-American leaders who self-identify with the Francoist term?La Raza?are themselves guilty of operating as racial separatists.[40]?In this regard, Hanson has voiced qualified support for?Donald Trump's plans to deport illegal immigrants from the United States, after offering a chance for?green card?residence to those who were vetted and found to have no?criminal record, no history of public support, and residence of some duration. Blanket deportation policy, Hanson argued, would be as "unworkable", as is the present open-borders status quo.[41]

Hanson is also opposed to the unvetted, and often illegal?mass influx of mostly young male refugees from the war-torn Middle East into Europe, alluding to the resulting tensions in EU society by using premodern/postmodern allusions to H.G. Well's 1895 novel?The Time Machine?that the millions of Muslims fleeing to Europe are the "Morlocks" (i.e. a fierce underclass) who will devour the Europeans who are "Eloi" (i.e. largely defenseless and overly refined creatures).[42]?Hanson wrote that: "Europe's immigration policy is a disaster?and for reasons that transcend the idiocy of allowing the free influx of young male Muslims from a premodern, war-torn Middle East into a postmodern, pacifist, and post-Christian Europe."[42]?Hanson has called the German Chancellor?Angela Merkel?"unhinged" for welcoming about a million refugees fleeing from the?Syrian Civil War?into her nation without plans to assimilate or integrate such numbers, instead of sending them to their countries of origin. Hanson has denied that all Syrians fleeing into Europe are refugees from the civil war, writing that uncharacteristically most refugees are "...young, single men from the Middle East who pour into Europe not as political refuges but as opportunists eager for European social largesse".[43]?Hanson wrote "Merkel's disastrous decision to open the borders of Germany?and with them Europe's as well?is proving both selfish and suicidal."[43]

Along the same lines, Hanson has argued that history proves that multi-cultural societies have too often proved disastrous failures, and that only way of preventing a society from collapsing into tribal bloodbaths is a "common culture, one that artificially suppresses the natural instinct of humans to identify first with their particular tribe".[38]?As an example of what he sees as a law of history, Hanson wrote: "The Italian Roman Republic lasted about 500 years. In contrast, the multiracial Roman Empire that after the Edict of Caracalla in AD 212 made all its diverse peoples equal citizens endured little more than two (often violent) centuries."[44]Along the same lines Hanson wrote in the 2016 column "Diversity: History's Pathway to Chaos" that: "Emphasizing diversity has been the pitfall, not the strength, of nations throughout history".[45]?Hanson charged that the current celebration of diversity was destroying America and ended with the statement if the celebration of diversity did not end: "Otherwise, we will end up as 50 separate and rival nations?just like other failed states in history whose diverse tribes and races destroyed themselves in a Hobbesian dog-eat-dog war with one another."[45]?In a 2013 column titled "Western Cultural Suicide", Hanson wrote: "Multiculturalism?as opposed to the notion of a multiracial society united by a single culture?has become an abject contradiction in the modern Western world... Western hosts lost confidence in the very society that gives us the wealth and leisure to ignore or caricature its foundations. The result is that millions of immigrants flock to the West, enjoy its material security, and yet feel little need to bond with their adopted culture, given that their hosts themselves are ambiguous about what others desperately seek out."[46]

Writing about the murder of a British soldier by two Nigerian Muslims on the streets of London in May 2013, Hanson wrote the murder reflected what he viewed as cultural decline, stating: "In Britain, as in the West in general, deportation is a fossilized concept. Unity is pass?. Patriotism is long suspect. The hip metrosexual cultures of the urban West strain to find fault in their inheritance, and seem to appreciate those who do that in the most cool fashion?but always with the expectation that there will be some poor blokes who, in terms of clean water, medical care, free speech, and dependable electricity, ensure that London is not Lagos, that Stockholm is not Damascus, and that Los Angeles is not Nuevo Laredo."[46]?Through acknowledging that in the early years of the American republic that to be American was to be white, Hanson argued that the "ultimate logic" of the American constitution led to the United States becoming a society where "multiracialism under one common culture" was the norm, but unfortunately in the late 20th century "multiculturalism, in which each particular ethnic group retained its tribal chauvinism and saw itself as separate from the whole" become the new norm.[44]

In July 2013, the Attorney General?Eric Holder?gave a speech when he mentioned that as a black man the need to deliver "the Talk" to his children, namely he would have to inform his children that some, mostly white people who were going to hate them not because what they did, but simply because of their skin color. In response to Holder's speech, Hanson wrote a column titled "Facing Facts about Race" where he offered up his own version (and others') of "the Talk", namely the need to inform his children to be careful of young black men when venturing into the inner city, who Hanson argued were statistically more likely to commit violent crimes than young men of other races, and that therefore it was understandable for the police to focus on groups with the highest statistical crime rates, which turn out to be young black males.[47]

Hanson wrote his father once had been robbed by young black men, and had given him "the Talk" warning his son to exercise caution in known crime-ridden areas and to note that African-American male youth have a far higher incidence of assault than other groups; and Hanson added that having been robbed himself by black men, he had given "the Talk" warning his children to avoid situations when in dangerous areas and to exercise caution there when encountering groups of young African-American men when alone, whom Hanson argue were statistically more likely to have had criminal records.[47]Hanson therefore criticized Holder and Obama for suggesting that racism may have been a factor in the trial of Hispanic?George Zimmerman?who had been charged and acquitted of murder with the shooting death of?Trayvon Martin?and especially for intruding in an ongoing criminal case before a jury had even been selected.[47]?Hanson argued that Zimmerman was later found by a jury of his peers to be justified in shooting Martin in self-defense, and he suggested that Obama was alluding to racism being a factor in the case, to distract attention from his then unpopular presidency.[47]

Referring to the concurrent case at the time of two Vietnamese-Americans killed by a black convicted felon, Hanson wrote: "The world will long remember Trayvon Martin, but few people?and certainly not Barack Obama or Eric Holder, who have a bad habit, in an increasingly multiracial country, of claiming solidarity on the basis of race?will care that Khin Min and Lina Lim were torn to pieces by bullets and a knife. Few will care that they died in a vicious assault that had nothing to do with stereotyping, Stand Your Ground self-defense, weak gun laws, insufficient federal civil-rights legislation, or any of the other causes of interracial violence falsely advanced by the attorney general?but quite a lot to do with an urban culture that for unspoken reasons has spawned an epidemic of disproportionate violent crime on the part of young African-American males."[47]

Criticism for his views on race relationsEdit

In response to "Facing Facts About Race", the American writer?Ta-Nehisi Coates?accused Hanson of racism and stupidity.[48]?Referring to Hanson's "Talk", Coates wrote: "Let us be direct?in any other context we would automatically recognize this "talk" as stupid advice. If I were to tell you that I only employ Asian-Americans to do my taxes because "Asian-Americans do better on the Math SAT," you would not simply question my sensitivity, but my mental faculties. That is because you would understand that in making an individual decision, employing an ancestral class of millions is not very intelligent. Moreover, were I to tell you I wanted my son to marry a Jewish woman because "Jews are really successful," you would understand that statement for the stupidity which it is...There is no difference between my argument above and the notion that black boys should be avoided because they are overrepresented in the violent crime stats. But one of the effects of racism is its tendency to justify stupidity."[48]

The Anglo-American journalist?Andrew Sullivan?called Hanson's column "spectacularly stupid", writing: "Treating random strangers as inherently dangerous because of their age, gender and skin color is a?choice?to champion fear over reason, a?decision?to embrace easy racism over any attempt to overcome it".[49]?The American journalist Arthur Stern called "Facing Facts About Race" an "inflammatory" column based upon crime statistics that Hanson never cited, writing: "His presentation of this controversial opinion as undeniable fact without exhaustive statistical proof is undeniably racist."[50]?The Anglo-American journalist?Kelefa Sanneh?in response to "Facing Facts About Race" wrote that Hanson was wrong to claim that white and Asian-Americans were all victims of black criminals, writing: "It's strange, then, to read Hanson writing as if the fear of violent crime were mainly a "white or Asian" problem, about which African-Americans might be uninformed, or unconcerned?as if African-American parents weren't already giving their children more detailed and nuanced versions of Hanson's "sermon," sharing his earnest and absurd hope that the right words might keep trouble at bay."[51]

The Anglo-American journalist?John Derbyshire, who was fired from the?National Review?for writing a similar column in 2012 titled "The Talk: Nonblack Version", came to Hanson's defense, praising him for "spot-on observations" about race relations in modern America, through he argued that his column was much superior.[52]?In "The Talk: Nonblack Version", Derbyshire, who had earlier been criticized by Hanson on his advocacy for racial stereotyping well beyond the context of traveling in high crime areas, went well beyond what Hanson had advocated, telling his children not to live in cities with black mayors, never to help a black person in distress, to avoid all public gatherings with large numbers of black people and only have a few black people as friends to avoid allegations of prejudice.[53]?Contra Coates, Derbyshire argued in support of Hanson that the best way to avoid being a victim of crime was: "..stay well clear of crowds of unfamiliar blacks. Might application of those rules leave someone with hurt feelings? Probably. So in this pan we have some stranger's hurt feelings. In the other pan, we have our kids' safety. What's the beam doing, Ta-Nehisi?".[52]Hanson in response to Sanneh's essay accused him of a "McCarthyite character assassination" and "infantile, if not racialist, logic".[54]
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

We need more Democrats like him to offset the bent wrist socialist liberals within that party.

RELH
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-18 AT 09:15PM (MST)[p]

NVB LOL When a educated man with his credentials tells you you have issues you may want to believe him. I can see you had some difficulty addressing the authors article with you hyperbole and feeble attempt at misdirection. If the articles are too long for you, read them over a few days that way you may be able to comprehend them.

Now here's the second article that's responding to the Dems LEAKED rebuttal of the GOP MEMO.

So here's an article showing the holes in the dems LEAKED 6 page response to NBC. Seems they just can't follow protocol. You really won't like this one but since he investigated and put the blind sheik behind bars he's got some experience as a federal prosecutor.

So why are they're fighting to keep things hidden? National security my azz it's the fact your guys got caught gaming the system once again....LOL So let's see how many folks have resigned or been reassigned at the FBI and DOJ at this point? There's more to come so get ready. LOL

So here's the link. I'll warn you it's got some length to it but once again the author exercised his rights to write his article.....LOL

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/456093/jerrold-nadler-memo-rebuttal-weak-unpersuasive
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

>
>NVB LOL When a educated man
>with his credentials tells you
>you have issues you may
>want to believe him.


When an educated man with his credentials shows up maybe I will believe him.



I
>can see you had some
>difficulty addressing the authors article
>with you hyperbole and feeble
>attempt at misdirection.


Yeah, that's it.




>National security
>my azz it's the fact
>your guys got caught gaming
>the system once again....LOL

My guys? You have no idea who my guys are. They aren't who you want to believe they are.



So
>let's see how many folks
>have resigned or been reassigned
>at the FBI and DOJ
>at this point? There's more
>to come so get ready.
>LOL
>

So do you think someone big is going to jail for all this? Hillary? That's all I stated in the first place. Unfortunately she will likely never ever go to jail.

It is possible that someone can have a differing opinion than you and not be a Hillary supporter. And it is possible to not be a Hillary fan and still think Trump is an #####. There is so much room in the middle. You should try it sometime.
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

>
>It is possible that someone can
>have a differing opinion than
>you and not be a
>Hillary supporter. And it is
>possible to not be a
>Hillary fan and still think
>Trump is an #####. There
>is so much room in
>the middle. You should try
>it sometime.

NV,

You cannot tell the Trumpteers such facts. In their America you are either orange glazed or you are the enemy. They are the American Taliban and you shouldn't dare disagree with them on all things Trump.

Nemont
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-18 AT 10:21AM (MST)[p] The fact we have this crap going on in Washington is the reason why it needs to be exposed. So you two fools would rather that these things never come to light? Get serious you both constantly complain about Washington not doing what's right but yet lack the intelligence or huevos to comprehend exposing the things going on is the only way, it may get fixed.

So you can't admit we have some patterns here that are clearly wrong? Hard drives being erased, computers being destroyed, IRS targeting opposition groups illegally, unmasking of citizens without using proper procedure, giving guns to drug cartels to kill innocent citizens breaking the laws in two countries. rigging a presidential election, telling illegals they can vote (illegally) to alter who's in office, the FBI allowing evidence to be destroyed in a criminal investigation, allowing fraudulent materials to be used to spy on an opposing campaign, sanctuary cities where they disregard our laws..........

Yep you two are priceless, at what point does it dawn on you that letting them get away with breaking the law only emboldens them to do more.........funny isn't it, these were just a few instances during the Obama administrations lawless run.

Not one smidgen of proof anything was going on ring any bells.....come to mind? Why does the topic of focus keep constantly changing because they get caught in their lies.


NVB if you had taken the time to actually read the first article you would have seen the man pointed out valid and invalid points in his novella and would be better served trying to absorb the authors intent rather than crying because it hurt you finger using your mouse. The second article does the same thing. Your feeble attempt to say you disagreed was based on the author not the subject matter. Now go play with your smurfs.
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

Expose away but you are only getting about 1/3 of the information needed to prove anything and so far you have almost no actual complete facts.

Lock up all the bad actors, I don't care. Send Hillary to prison, put Comey in Club Fed. Break up the FBI and what ever little club they have over there.

This memo wouldn't be allowed to be admitted as evidence in a court because anyone can write memo.

If the allegations contained in it are all proven facts then let those who did the deed pay the price. I suspect that neither Trump nor Jeff Sessions really want to expose the entire thing because some of their people, including George Papadopoulos would be caught up in it.

So go after everyone who acted with bad faith but please spare me the faked outrage because you are not, nor am I, privy to all the info. The memo and it's release are designed to avoid most facts and to stir up the Trump base, Mission accomplished. Mueller still went to work today and you will have your work cut out for you to smear him regardless of what some on here continue parrot from FoxNews.

Nemont
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

The Inspector General is investigating and that is the place to find the facts and do indictments. I think he is going to release his findings next month. We will see then if anyone goes to jail.
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

Read the articles and spare us the lecture because frankly most of us don't care what you think. Both articles clearly state the pros and cons of both memos seen at this point and yet the dems still have to have their actual response released. Release it all is fine with me.

The politics in this always distorts the picture but lets not discount the fact the Obama administration played fast and loose with the rules on many things. If they were lily white a pure they wouldn't be fighting so hard to hide this little mess would they.

Sure Trumps using this as a lever and he'd be a damn fool not to. Lets be honest here 99% of everything you post on here is an article that supports your opinion so quit extolling on your virtue. I said long ago if Trumps guilty then he should hang but I'm also savoy enough to recognize a hatchet job when I see one. The balls in Mueller's court now ( whom I said wasn't corrupt) but given the dirt that's been exposed it's going to complicate matters and given what we've seen to this point rightfully so.
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

you're 100% correct Glen then we'll see what really may be going on. But actually thinking some may get charged may be wishful thinking. They all have dossiers of dirt on each other so they felt compelled to fabricate one on the new guy.
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

"Lets be honest here 99% of everything you post on here is an article that supports your opinion so quit extolling on your virtue."

Says the guy who posts nothing but articles that support his position.

Boskee, why don't you climb off your high horse "and spare us the lecture because frankly most of us don't care what you think".

I just hope when Trump is done draining the swamp he takes all the corrupt democrats AND republicans with him. And I hope he pulls the plug in on his way down the drain.

Bye
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

Boskee,

Like you, I don't much care what you think either. I post here for entertainment so if you think you are playing a game of gotcha with me, then have fun.

Last I checked we still live in America and I am still free to tell you that Trump is a shytty president who is spending money as fast as Hillary would have. You obviously are invested in the fake narrative that Trump is a conservative, he isn't.

There is never ever going to be a smoking gun of Trump and Putin sitting down to plan the election results and Trump won fair and square. His the duly elected president, I don't have support his policies that steal from future grand children. I didn't support any of the debt and spending before and am not going to start now just because another R is going to show the D's how it is really done.

This Memo proves zero and wouldn't be admitted into court. Even it admits that the investigation didn't begin with Carter Page but instead it all started with the George Papadopoulos. So throw out anything on Carter Page but remember you haven't proven diddly squat to this point.

Nemont
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-18 AT 12:48PM (MST)[p]https://www.wsj.com/articles/former-trump-aide-carter-page-was-on-u-s-counterintelligence-radar-before-russia-dossier-1517486401

One wonders why an angel like Carter Page would come to the attention of the FBI?

Are all of you outraged Trumpettes going to believe Nunes is pure on why Page was being watched and that it was 100% of a dossier? Seems kind of like once more details get filled out there isn't a big of a smoking gun as team Trump wants it to be, not that his base care much about any fact that doesn't support Trump. Fake news from the WSJ, right?

Nemont
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

So you two fools still haven't figured it out yet have you. I posted up the articles so many on here could see the games being played. I've stated many times politics is the art of deception. You two clowns took the bait and called me out for the length & content of an article and said the facts were suspect....The articles state some things are suspect so the jokes on you. The authors point out pros and cons on both articles. What's even better is that all this is coming out when many of the FISA rules we have today were put in place by it's former director Bob Mueller.... so given that we have some issues following the guidelines he put in place where will this take us.

nice try cubbies but once again you continue to opine on that which you seem to be unable to discern let alone comprehend. Can you two fools grasp the irony here? I doubt it.
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-18 AT 01:36PM (MST)[p]You are full of it.

You go along fine and then you are just like your brethren here on the fake conservatives mm.com channel.

Mueller was never in the chain of command in rule making for the Court. Any rules are promulgated by Congress, both the DNI and the Attorney General are charged with making the court operate and function. No where in any of it does it give the FBI director any authority to make FISC rules.

http://www.uscourts.gov/file/rules-foreign-intelligence-surveillance-court
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-18 AT 03:12PM (MST)[p]Sorry Nemont he was the director of the FBI when they implemented many of the procedures and rules we still have in place today..... you know the ones the folks who are compromising his investigation didn't follow.

You may actually want to do a little more digging since the FBI writes their own procedures to be in compliance with the courts and the DOJ. The DOJ reviews them to make sure they comply since the application requires their approval to submit. It's up to the agencies to write their procedures for compliance to the changing laws. You may want to look up the Woods rule and see who was at the helm in the FBI during that time frame around 2003 it was Mueller and he has always had a reputation for following the rules. OOPs I guess you stepped in your own trap....LOL
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

Boskee,

The only thing I stepped in was the shyt you made up about how the FISA court rules are written. You need to stop watching Alex Jones and Infowars, man that stuff can rot you brain.

The FBI director does not write the rules of the FISA court procedure and rules, period. You can pretend that Mueller is an evil sob with evil intent who put rules in the FISA court to get Trump 13 years before Trump ran but he didn't.

Don't believe me, go read the actual rules, the law that created the court, the update in 2010 and the congressional oversight committees interim report. Mueller didn't write the FISA court Rules on how it issues it's warrants, congress did.

Mueller was FBI Director in 2010, True. That he wrote the rules of the FISA court, fake news. He is required to write the rules for how the FBI complies with laws, that is correct. That does zero to the FISA warrant against Carter Page, which was renewed at least three times, a couple while Trump was President.

Nemont
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld; you don't know what you don't know.




Perhaps ironically, Mueller isn't in charge of the investigation examining the conduct of FBI and Justice Department officials and whether they followed the rules he'd carefully implemented 15 years before. Instead, Mueller is leading the probe into Russia?s alleged illegal connections with Trump associates. Congress is looking at the wiretap process.

With so much information still classified, redacted and ? in some cases ? withheld, there is much we don't know. Perhaps we will eventually learn that there's a good reason unverified material was given to the court. Maybe there was no violation of rules or processes.


Mueller isn't dirty like you all like to pretend. I don't believe Trump will be touched but just because Carter Page had FISA warrants issued against him doesn't mean you know the whole story. You can pretend but so can a little girl playing barbie both are about the same caliber.

Nemont
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

LOL. So Mueller did have something to do with the implementation of the FBI procedures? Woods was the agent that wrote them for the agency that's why they were named after him.......LOL

I have corrected you a couple of times I never said Mueller was dirty I said they corrupted his investigation. So you can end the drama about that. I fully admit I've said Obama and Clinton were corrupt and history will prove me right on both counts. Is Trump? Time will tell but Mueller's team didn't do him any favors did they.....
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

That isn't what you said. You said Mueller wrote the rules for the FISA court, totally a lie. That he laid the ground rules for the post 911 FBI "Woods Procedure", yes. You have zero knowledge as to whether the FBI violated it. All you have is a partisan memo. The president has the authority to declassify all if the info used to obtain the warrants against Carter Page. I mean the actual documents, yet he choose not to. Why do you suppose that is? Why rely on a memo written by one side with an agenda in mind? Better yet why do you trust that memo to be gospel?


So Hillary is corrupt? Care to bet as to whether Jeff Sessions goes after her to bring her or Obama to Justice?

Nemont
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

I still don't see where I said Mueller wrote the rules for the courts......show me and I'll apologize if not you owe me one.

I think you jumped to your own conclusion.......
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

>I still don't see where I
>said Mueller wrote the rules
>for the courts......show me and
>I'll apologize if not you
>owe me one.
>
>I think you jumped to your
>own conclusion.......

The Smartest SOB in Montana Jump to His Own Conclusion?

Na!

Never!
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

Nothing new Bobcat. How would you like to know everything about everything possible?
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

>Nothing new Bobcat. How would you
>like to know everything about
>everything possible?

Well YBO!

I'll never be the Smartest SOB in TARDVILLE!

NeMont has already Informed Me on that!






90087hankjr.jpg
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

That's ok. I'll still make you a first round draft choice and use you as either a fullback or a pulling guard. The smartest one will either be a cheerleader or a water boy.
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

I knew I had him because He didn't know that Woods drew up the rules under Mueller when he was the director. But I gave him a clue and told him to dig and he found it. Sometimes we old guys have to teach these young whipper snappers!!! LOL It's all in fun anyway....LOL

Hope all's well with you Bessie!

Things are going to get interesting now.....Grassley and Graham memos (and there's still more coming) are going to get released and the liberal liars court is about to get fully exposed. Comey gets in deeper and Hillary, McCabe and other new players get exposed...... The GOP caught em! With a ton of inside help from the good guys many at work in the FBI and DOJ!

Nemont is right they probably won't serve a day but we can always dream......But the bastards will all be done and may at least be disbarred and shunned in the public's eye..... These guys in the GOP are going to expose them for the crooks they are......Let's see how the liberal press try to carry water now that they're starting to see they got duped and will look like the biased fools they are.

By the way Nemont...I don't watch Hannity....it's all out there and this time it's you that only has 1/3 the information..so watch and learn.... The dems are going to be throwing dirt today and for weeks to come, to try to cover up but it won't help them!!! We all knew Washington was corrupt but we're going to see just how bad it really is. Not too bad for us TRUMPETEERS..... Trump will beat them at their own game.... AGAIN......not too bad for a rookie......
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-18 AT 09:49AM (MST)[p]> What's even better
>is that all this is
>coming out when many of
>the FISA rules we have
>today were put in place
>by it's former director Bob
>Mueller


What FISA court rules did Mueller put in place? The Woods Procedure isn't a FISA court rule, it is an FBI rule that governs that agency, it doesn't tie the FISA Court to anything.


Here questions for the clown car driver fans. Why did the FISA court renew the Warrant against Carter Page, not once but twice, since Trump and his DOJ been in power? What other documents were presented the are not detailed in Nunes Memo? You don't know, I don't know but Trey Gowdy says you all are hanging your hat on something that isn't there.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/04/trey-gowdy-says-memo-has-no-effect-on-russia-probe/



Nemont
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-18 AT 10:23AM (MST)[p]No you said I said he was behind the rules in the court.....LOL I knew exactly where I was taking you and you tangled yourself in your own web...... LOL No harm no foul.

Carter Page is an unusual guy (and may be guilty) I'll give you that but in the big plot he was one of the pawns they used since they knew he gave them the conduit to Trump. Is Trump innocent don't know, But the fact the players mentioned were playing both sides of the fence is interesting. The Russians wove this mess between both parties since the Trump team didn't have the intell the dems did. One things for sure Trump couldn't have made up all the reems of supporting documentation they have on some of the corrupt players.

In the end I suspect they were weaving the web as a form of repayment for the uranium one mess and if she lost, the dems could cloud Trumps administration. Don't lose sight of the fact that the dems had far more contact with many of the same the players on the russian side (years and years) and they were meeting with them during the same time frame as this progressed. It's the thriller from manilla on steroids.

Putin wins either way and is laughing his azz off and we're spending millions investigating ourselves to find the connection he created. If we take out a few politico's he laughs all the more......since we're corrupt in the eys of the world.
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

Sure you are brilliant and never said what you said. I quoted your exact post so put that in your crack pipe and toke it.

So no answer why the Trump DOJ also signed off on renewing the warrant on Carter Page, twice, since being in power? They used the same documents according Gowdy? So are Sessions and company also in on bringing down Trump?

Do this, hold your breath until Hillary is indicted for Uranium One.

Here is the bottom line for me, put Hillary in prison, put Comey in Prison, fire Mueller for what ever it is Trumpteers believe he has done to team Trump. None of the makes Trump's campaign lily White and as Trey Gowdy points out Trump still has the problem of the meeting in Trump Towers plus Papadopouls's message to the Russian regarding what Trump wanted. The Russia investigation would exist without Carter Page because of Team Trump's own actions.

Believe as you wish but Hillary ain't going to prison, Comey isn't either, Mueller will be allowed to finish his work and Trump will still be president. That is how this game is going to play out.

Nemont
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

Once again you prove what a damn fool you are. get over yourself azzhole....you're not that big a deal.... but you sure have an issue admitting you're wrong.


You CLEARLY couldn't show us where I said in the courts ( your claim) and your post clearly supports my claim that you jumped to your own false conclusion.... you're not only a fool you're a damn idiot.

The text is there I gave you a chance and offered you an easy out "no harm no foul" but you simply wouldn't take it.


A while back you asked me & others to leave because you didn't like what we posted on here, after this I suggest you take your own advice. LOL

MANY of us have said we doubted they'd go to prison but that clearly doesn't mean they're innocent, but you seem incapable of comprehending that....so stop accusing us of the obvious in your misguided quest to reaffirm your lack of intellectual prowess.

The only thing you proved on this thread is you're not the masterdebator but you sure tried to give us a tug. LOL
 
RE: There will be a quiz Monday morning

Right

Whatever makes your day pass faster.

Nemont
 

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