Don Peay and public ownership of wildlife...

U

Utah400Elk

Very Active Member
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From another site...

"Peay, who stressed that the Utah chapter isn't trying to push its view in Alaska or even with the Alaska chapter, said it's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource. Peay described that egalitarian doctrine, found in Alaska's state constitution and laws throughout the West, as "socialism." It offers no economic incentive for landowners to kill predators, improve big game habitat and even provide food and water for target species."

Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2012/03/03/23505...ww.adn.com/2012/03/03/235050...#storylink=cpy

SFW supporters please help me understand Don's statements. This is starting to get crazy. Revisit the widely accepted principle that game is a public resource? It is a public resource Don! WTF?
 
Get a rope.

DP obviously needs to go back and understand how it came to be that the wildlife is a public resource. This is not Europe for a reason and he will never be the King.
 
Just keep pushing back. Every time you get wind of something like this, put it front and center! Eventually they are going to break. There are enough hunters against this tag grab stuff to get it tabled.



The voices in my head may not be real, but they have
some good ideas!
 
Who in the world supports this organization? What a bunch of snakes!

I'd be ashamed to have any part of SFW.

Privatizing wildlife in Alaska will only benifit those handeling the money. The natives won't see a penny of it, you can bet on that.
 
I'm waiting for the brawl between SFW members and other sportsmen, it has to be coming. What an Dumba&& statement. I think that most SFW supporters must be wealthy that would like the public land grab suggested.
 
I am not sure how much more the SFW advocates need to understand what this guyg's motives are. How he and his friends intend to use you as pawns to accomplish his goal of taking your wildlife and making it the private property of his pals.

After the average hunters spent 100 years volunteering to recover wildlife, buying licenses, paying excise taxes, along comes the worst of the worst privateers, seeking to take this wildlife asset and convert to a personal currency.

Flat out, SFW, BGF, and their leadership are a pox on hunting and all principles that have provided the wildlife recovery they so badly want to steal and convert to the private assets of their friends and donors.

If Mr. Peay and his friends don't like the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation, maybe they should pack up their gear and head to Europe or Africa. His comments in that article seem to fit well to how wildlife is owned in those locations.

For anyone to criticize the North American Model that we use to hold wildlife in trust for the people and advocate changing 225 years of Constitutional history, is analogous to a radical religious terrorist living in the US and wanting to change our policies on freedom of religion.

To anyone who thinks the idea of wildlife held in public trust for the benefit of the state citizens needs to be changed, my thoughts are this - If you don't like how we do things in this country, please, do us all a favor. Get the hell out of here and take any like-minded parasites with you.

"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
Well said BigFin. I don't know what else he can say. BGF and SFW tried to kill wolf hunts in ID and MT and still people defend them as the main group trying to fight wolves. He is not for the average joes. He wants to take from the average joes and give to the wealthy. He does not even hide it anymore but his followers will defend him to the end.
 
I am a firm hater of socialism. But there is something in economics called a public good (not to be confused with the "greater good")see this link: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/public-good.html

All citizens should have equal rights to things like air, defense, protection, liberty, and in my opinion big game opportunities.

The SFW guy says that "It offers no economic incentive for landowners to kill predators...etc...." Well, what will be the economic incentive for landowners to let the common folk (us) hunt? His way of thinking will ensure that hunting becomes a pastime of the rich, much like yachting.
 
when is the next election for officers in this not for profit organization? if we all join and vote them out, are we not rid of them? or, is SFW set up so the average joes do not vote on who runs the organization. i am for democracy. it works.
 
you have to get a kick out of c86man3s post, he hates socialism but believes are all intitled to breath air, defense, protection liberty and of course big game. That about runs the gammut of needs no doubt, although I wonder if American humans are intitled to a drink of water or not ?
 
Baker,
Membership in SFW does not convey any voting rights. The leadership is determined by Don Peay and they cannot be controlled by the membership. You can join and support their cause, or you can not join, but they don't really care what the general membership thinks. Of course, send your money, however!

While I don't particularly like this form of management (The king makes all the rules), it is common for non-profits. As a member of RMEF and MDF I don't get a vote on their leadership either. I am not currently a member of SFW due to the current direction of the organization. I fully support RMEF, and cautiously support MDF. (Their ties to SFW gives me pause.)
Bill
 
>Who in the world supports this
>organization? What a bunch
>of snakes!
>
>I'd be ashamed to have any
>part of SFW.
>
>Privatizing wildlife in Alaska will only
>benifit those handeling the money.
> The natives won't see
>a penny of it, you
>can bet on that.

Sad thing is its not just Alaska. Look up S1282 in the Idaho legislature. Its a bill that would allow owners of large ammounts of property to get and sell controlled hunt tags. Check out S1256 while you're at it. With what's going on in ID, AZ and Alaska it looks like they are well on their way to accomplishing Peay's goal. Hopefully we can stop it.
 
Perhaps muley_73, birdman or one of the other SFW faithful can put a positive spin on this.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
>you have to get a kick
>out of c86man3s post, he
>hates socialism but believes are
>all intitled to breath air,
>defense, protection liberty and of
>course big game. That about
>runs the gammut of needs
>no doubt, although I wonder
>if American humans are intitled
>to a drink of water
>or not ?


I'm not sure whether you were being critical of my post or not. Do you not believe that all citizens are entitled to equal protection under the law, air, defense, and big game? There is a difference between those things and socialism (ie equal distribution of money). There aren't very many things that I think governments should do for us, but protecting our rights is one I firmly believe in.
 
llamapacker, thanks for the reply back. i find it troubling that the elected legislators in utah allow a non-elected mgmt team of the not for profit (SFW) to acquire the rights to the assets (tags. perhaps we can get a legislator to require in the law that any organization that receives tags for auction or raffle be organized via a one member one vote with a board of directors that is on staggered terms no longer than 3 years each (1/3, 1/3, 1/3 each year, and with a required membership of at least 5000 members. this way, the ordinary joes who are willing to support the organization have a voice in the management team and the mission and political agenda of the organization. or, we can start a new and competing organization, call it Real Sportsmen for Wildlife (RSRW) with this structure, and get some key high profile industry leaders to help support the cause. this will require a lot of work and will need to have grass roots support - but if we dont do it, what are we leaving to our kids who want to hunt.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-12 AT 07:53PM (MST)[p]socialism isn't equal distribution of money, and I am not ashamed to admit that publicly owned land is a socialized privilage I cherish, along with wildlife. I laughed because big game is not on most Americans list of rights protected under the constitution.
 
You may not want to believe it, but there is a two prong attack on public hunting in this country. First you have the anti-hunting animal loving crowd that would like to see hunting of big game be banned in this country. They have been making inroads in the last 10 years.

Then you have the ones that want to make hunting a high price sport that can only be injoyed by persons of extreme wealth. They have also made inroads in the last 10 years with more and more top end tags going for many thousands of dollars.

More and more private ranch lands are being tied up by outfitters and as the rancher relizes he can make more money on the game, he will try to get all he can just to pay the taxes or maybe buy that new pickup.

Twenty years from now hunting will be a very different game and you will see more and more high fence hunts on private land and more hunting restrictions on the public land.

RELH
 
I know, what ever I say is going to be ran down my throat. I have not had a chance to study the Alaska thing but did read through it. I did talk to a outfitter in Alaska and what I got out of it is Alaska was thinking of a setup that would be simular to Utah CWMU setups. That is where the land owner will get tags to sell in return for letting people on their property which they do not do now. On most CWMU's in Utah the owner controls the deer population by taking care of predators. That would probably happen in Alaska as the more game that they have the more money that they can make. Something we all know. That is what I got out of the article. I also know that this paper is one that works with the animal rights people so what they say I would question. Read what people have said after. No killing of animals.
As far as Don Peay running SFW, that is not true. Don is hired by SFW to do what he does. He does not pick the board. The board is basically made up from the chapter presidents who are elected by the people in their chapter. Anyone that wants to be involved in the chapters can but most do not get involved. When there is a change such as someone moving or changing work and can not head the chapter, there is an election held with anyone that wants to run can run. The new leader becomes a member of the board. They represent the members in their chapters. At any time the board can make changes as to those that run SFW. It has been done in the past and probably will be done in the future.
Now go ahead and tell me how full of crap I am and how I do not understand what I believe in and volunteer for. I am sure all of you know more about SFW than I do.
 
The following quotes highlight how Don Peay and SFW feel about the average, every day sportsmen. Don and SFW cater to the rich and the high end guides and outfitters that service the big money crowd. In contrast, the masses who merely buy their tags the day before the hunt have very little to offer the likes of Don Peay. This guy is an elitist and is a major threat to the future of public hunting as we have known it in the past.

Don said:

"When wildlife is a very highly valued asset, people want more of it and they'll invest additional funds to make sure it's abundant," Peay said.

The same is true of professional guides and outfitters, he added. "They tend to be more involved to make sure there's abundant game herds than a lot of guys who just buy their license the day before the hunt starts and then, when game disappears, the masses tend to complain -- but what did they do to allow that situation to happen and why weren't they more involved to fix it?"

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
Birdman,

Even if I take your statements at face value, i.e. AK SFW wants a Utah style CWMU program, what do you think about Don saying " it's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource?"

Are you claiming this article misquotes Don? Is that anything like the NRA etc misunderstaning BGF and SFW's intention on trying to kill the Simpson Tester bill?

Do you believe the game is a public resource? Should the public ownership idea of game animals be revisited? Is this Don's idea or SFW?
 
Will Hawkeye, The first statement I take it as meaning that wildlife is a highly valued asset. Do you not want more wildlife. Most do. The more we have the more hunting that can take place. We see what a tag sells for. Now how do we get those chaining projects done or the reseeding after the fires. The replanting of pine trees on Dry Mountain in Utah County which by the way the fish and game did not want. The brush rippers, the water guzzlers etc. Those cost money and the state will not pay for that. That is taken care of by those funds that come from the sale of high priced tags. When the big horns were brought in from the north and turned loose on Provo peaks or Temp. The sheep transplants that have been done around the state as well as the new herd of buffalo now at the book cliffs. The raising of the fish that go into strawberry to 8 inches so that they do not become food for the other fish. It takes money to do all that stuff. So with people willing to pay the high price for a tag, then they can use the money to further wildlife and hunting in the state. Will all the new sheep herds in this State. Were did they come from. From the high dollar tags that have been sold. And how many people have been able to hunt those sheep that did not have the opertunity before. How many know that Don Peay led a charge and bought up grazing permits on the Henries with an effort to allow more buffalo on the mountain. After doing so it was struck down in court. Grazing permits are for cattle, not cattle.
As for the second. Which would you rather hunt, the regular hunt or on a CWMU. CWMU's work to increase the game so that they can make money. They do what it takes because it makes them money. The more game that is here, the more money that can be made by a CWMU. How many people do noting all year long and then buy their licence the day before the hunt and hunt. All they want to do is hunt. They do not want to do things to increase the game. The dedicated hunters want to hunt so bad that they do hours of work to help with projects to help increase the game. Then they only get to shoot two deer. But many people could care less about doing anything to help out the game situation and then when it is too late, they complain about no game. They do allow the situation to happen as they have done nothing to help with the game herds. If you belong to an organization or not matters to me. What does matter is that we all love to hunt and many fish. We want the best hunting and fishing. But if we all do not do something to make it better and do our part, it is not going to happen. We can not set back and let someone else do it. We need to ger involved. And if we all look at it open minded, we know it takes money to get these things done. The funds are not there in the Fish and Game, If they raise the price of a license so that these things can get done, None of us could afford to hunt. It would be a rich mans sport. My self, I can only afford to hunt one thing a year. I hope I get my elk tage this year as I am too old to keep going many more years.
 
According to the law, wildlife is owned by the State. The state allows the public to hunt. The state is made up of the public therefore I guess you can say the wildlife belongs to the public. There again it take money to do the things that are being done for wildlife. The DWR has not the money, and the State does not give them enough to get the jobs done. Therefore if there is another way to come up with the money, then it is done. If you have a better way to come up with the money that is used for these projects please put them out there so they can be used. If we raise the license costs to cover the money, we would be spending several hundred dollars for a hunting permit. Some maybe can afford it, many can not. That would truly make it a rich mans sport. Without the money, our wildlife would be much worse off than it is now. The guzzlers, and other watering means that have been put in in certian areas of the state have benefited our wildlife as well as many other projects out there that have been done. They can not be done without money. So if you do not like the way that money is being raised right now, please come up with a different one. Money is needed to increase wildlife that belongs to the State. I get nothing from SFW but I love to hunt. As I look at it these groups that so many hate, are the ones that are putting money on the ground to do these projects.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-12 AT 10:29PM (MST)[p]No spin on this one...

Don said "it's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."

He is not talking about funding he is talking about ownership! Public ownership of the resource is Socialism? Really? You claim he is talking about funding? Sorry but that doesn't hold water. This, to me is an attack on the North American Wildlife model. The public has failed in their ownership and its time to hand over the reins?
 
Birdman - If the DWR received back all but 10% of the revenue / publics money from the tag auctions / raffles would they then have the money to get things done?
 
Big Bird.....

Stop blowing smoke...you are quickly becoming the lead Clown in Clownville!

It is official.....SFW is Clownville.....just another circus.

Really.....pull it out, my friend!
 
Some Clownville's are just a bit haphazard...maybe a little off beat, but values are firmly in place and followed through with

This SFW garbage is DISGUSTING Clownville...ZERO values. An insidious cancer that would seek to destroy from 'within' our American hunting heritage. **SPIT**

Regard the perspective of Doc. Val Geist, whom upon arriving in NA from Europe was initially put off by the masses of 'common folk' out hunting during open seasons...he grew to change his outlook considerably; to become a most staunch supporter of the NA Wildlife Model, and has continued to directly contribute a great deal of invaluable research, data, and profound insight toward its perpetuation.

I DESPISE seeing the attempted hijacking of the collective efforts of generations of Conservationists in this country by these corrupt 'special interest' goons.

DISGUSTING Clownville indeed...in its most despicably sinister form **SPIT**
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-12 AT 02:30AM (MST)[p]Maybe the DWR should be in charge of the expo tags?
Just a thought on how they could get not only more money but all of the money spent on them.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-12 AT 05:15AM (MST)[p]Wow!!! Relentless Gents!!! I'll give it to you for effort even if your results are minor.

Hawkeye,
I will say this again, please tell me what group has done more for wildlife in UT in the last 20 years. What group is going to do more going forward? Please tell me and I'll gladly take a hit off of that pipe Mr. Mayor Barry.

BigFin,
Aaaa.....nevermind.
 
73, You'd defend Satan if he backed your Dad's agenda...




2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
Isn't it interesting how being ask to explain my views on the subject and then being called names. I took time to give my opinion being ask and then those people who seem to really know everything, the haters of all, slam you. That is fine. I can handle those closed minded people. But as to the DWR running the expo, it is not legal. That is why someone else is doing it. And if it was not SFW involved then it would be fine. Money is needed to accomplish things that need to be done. That is a fact. How they get that money is different. I guess that they should forget the auction tags and raise the cost of tags. Lets see, what amount would they have to raise the price. Residents could pay a fortune for their tags. After all there is millions that go through the auction tags. All the groups that do it. That would really make it a rich mans sport. But then some of you people know everything. It is amazing. I guess you should run for office and fix it all. That would be the best way for you to fix everything. So quit complaining and run for office or figure a way out to get the money that it takes to get the things accomplished and SFW and other groups would go away. All the DWR needs if money so you guys fix the problem.
 
Birdman- You said "Residents could pay a fortune for their tags. After all there is millions that go through the auction tags. That would really make it a rich mans sport."-- That is simply false, unless you think a $10-15 increase is a "fortune". The Conservation Permit Program raises $2-2.5 million. 10% goes to the Org so you'd have to raise $1.8-2.2 million. 150,000 big game permits x $15 per is $2.25 million. Far from making it a cost a "fortune".

I do think that landowner's need incentives to sustain wildlife, but that is a long ways from privatizing the wildlife.
 
Will then get it done. If the DWR gets the money that they need then there would be no need for these groups. Therefore get it done. What incentive would a landowner need to open up his land to hunting?
 
Repeat- Incentives are fine, they are used in many states Utah, Wyoming, Nevada ect. ect. EXPLAIN the part about revisiting the public ownership of wildlife, we know about incentives, they are currently used, talk about the part of changing our north American wildlife management model.
 
Is there a need to do something? Wildlife populations are dropping fast. As was put, population pressure, habitat loss from development and the rise of environmental organizations opposed to predator control putting pressure on game herds that was not there went the NA law was written. We see what is going on it California with Dan Richards. We see what is going on with the wolf. We see houses being built where our wildlife use to winter. Is the NA model working now as it did back then? Is there some changes that need to be made? We know that our wildlife is going down hill. Something needs to be done. Enviromentalists need to be fought. Changes need to be made. If you have a better way to fix the situation, put it out. Do not sit and complain about what is going on. Find a way to fix the problems. Right now DP is trying his way. You all complain but do nothing to come up with a different way. We need something to fix our game herds. Complaining does not cut it. Doing something about it does. So if you do not like what is going on, find a new way.
 
Muley_73-

I got to give you credit, you are predictable. Wiley, said it best. You and your father have your heads buried so deeply in the sand that you don't know if it is day or night. These last several threads have nothing to do with a ?relentless? pursuit of SFW. Rather, it is the public expressing concern and outrage over what they seeing and hearing. Look at what has occurred in the last couple of months.

First, you have news that Corey Rossi, a close friend and SFW disciple, was removed as the Director of Alaska?s fish and game department and is being prosecuted for game violations after steering several premium tags SFW?s way to be auctioned the Expo. Second, you have the attempted tag grab in Arizona where a conservation group with ties to SFW is attempting to pass a bill that mirrors Utah?s conservation/convention tag system. Don?t worry folks, AZSFW has recently agreed to cap its request at 350 premium tags! Third, you have a series of similar bills introduced in Idaho. Finally, you have Don Peay spouting off publicly to a Anchorage Daily News that ?it's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource? and that it time to move away from the North American conversation model. Please explain why the public should not be concerned?

In response to your question as to what hunting group has done more for wildlife in the last 20 years, I would respond by stating that I believe SFW has done more in the last 20 years to jeopardize the future of hunting in Utah than any other group. As stated before, I was a SFW member from approximately 2002 to 2005. However, I believe SFW has turned its back on the average sportsmen in an effort to cater to the rich. Yes, SFW has put money on the ground for conservation projects. They sure as heck better given that they are raising millions of dollars a year from the sale of public tags. During the same time period, however, SFW has hijacked the entire wildlife management system in Utah, we have alienated/lost thousands of hunters, and our mule deer herds have continued to decline. By virtue of the conservation and convention tags and the money they generate, SFW has gathered an immense amount of power and influence with the DWR, the wildlife board, legislators and even the governor. Look no further than the fact that SFW?s former chairman of the board is currently a member of the Wildlife Board. As a result, SFW can push for policies and regulations that benefit its customers--the big money guys that can afford to buy a Henry Mountains deer tag or San Juan tag every year. Tell me this, what has SFW done for the average joe that wants to hunt with a general season deer tag each year? I would submit that SFW has done nothing for that group. Show me the results of 20 years and millions of dollars in handouts. SFW's recent change in focus from habitat restoration to predator control is an acknowledgment that whatever they were previously doing was not working.

Simply put, SFW pushes for policies and regulations that benefit its own interests. That means, limited and restricted hunting, less opportunity, big money tags, incentives for landowners to lock up their property, divisive politics, restricted stream access, etc. If you have different point of view on all of this, so be it. But even you cannot argue with Don?s latest comments regarding a departure from the North American conversation model . . . on second thought, if history is any indicator of the future, you probably can spin those comments in positive manner. Have at it!


Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-12 AT 08:49AM (MST)[p]Birdman, what you say is moronic drivel.
Huntable wildlife is in great shape overall, Weather patterns and the changing plant and forage base are the main reasons mule deer are doing poorly. Elk, Pronghorns, bighorn sheep, Mnt goats are all doing much better than in the hey day of mule deer, You need to study recent history. Wildlife populations need a heathy environment and wild country to live in, so why fight environmentalists? do you want runaway development everywhere? you people are insane, and its not hard to see what your real goal is.
 
Interesting piper, No I do not want developement everywhere. It is happening though. And that is one of the reasons that changes need to be made. Wish it could be more controlled. Yes wildlife does need a healthy enviroment and wild country to live in. If you do not think that inviromentalists are causing trouble. I guess I do not understand. I think the biggest threat that we have right now is inviromentalists. They are trying to distroy all hunting. Big Horn sheep are doing better. One if the reasons is the transplants that have taken place. Payed by the group you hate. I do beg to differ with you that wildlife is in great shape over all. Elk and deer are going down hill fast. Pronghorns were basically killed of in part of the state as was elk do to a biologest making a big mistake. The biggest hunt we have right now is the mule deer. It needs to be turned around. If you have a way to turn it around then say so. Do what you can to make it happen. No you just call people names and sit back and watch. Have I called you names? I have tried to be decent about this but you and some of your buddies decide that if you can down grade and bash people it makes you a bigger person. If you want to disagree then disagree. By the way, do have a great day.
 
Birdman Your statement about board members is a LIE Board members are hand picked by Don I know this is true because Iwas a board member until I found out how unethical SFW was. If board members were truely elected by sportsmen he would be out of a job.
 
Again...

Please explain the need to "revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource." I have not attacked you, I am simply asking SFW what they/Don Peay means by saying the above statement. To me he is talking about a shift of ownership? Let's have a civil discussion about that. Let's not talk about Utah CWMU, EXPO, or conservation tags. Let's stick to the focus of "the widely accepted principle" of game being a public resource. No spin please.
 
Saddleman, It is not a lie. I know what is going on. I was ask if I was interested in running for the board. there was an opening for a chapter. I was ask by other members in the chapter. I had no desire to be on the board but I did back someone. That is how the board members are chosen. Maybe when they were trying to get off the ground it that happened but it is not the way that it is now. THAT IS A FACT. Don Peay does not pick the members and has no vote as to what happens. He can make comments but has no vote. They do not always go with what he says. I do attend some board meetings to listen. I do know what goes on. Sorry man that is the way it is now.
 
Utah 400, I guess I am not sure where you are going or what you want. I think as I read this he is calling still saying that wildlife is a public resource but it has become socialism with the fact that people are not working to improve the wildlife. It offers no economic incentive for landowners to kill predators, improve big game habitat and even provide food and water for target species. Socialism is where people do nothing and recieve a free ride if I understand it right. I do not think that he is saying that the wildlife does not belong to the public, I think he is saying that the much of the public is doing nothing to keep the resource going.
 
Don basically said it is time to revisit the idea of public ownership. The current system offers great "economic incentive for landowners to kill predators, improve big game habitat." Private property owners can charge people to hunt private property. The better their land is the more they can charge. The "people" have done more for wildlife than SFW has ever or will ever do. That is a fact. The federal money from the hunting industry and the money raised through license sales is where the majority of the money comes from. Those are facts.

Here are a few questions for you

Do you support public ownership of wildlife or should the landowners own the animals? Simple question and simple answer.

Do you really believe that the "public" has done nothing for the wildlife? Again simple question.

Is giving something to somebody for nothing Socialism? If so, than is the Utah Expo (They are given tags and they give nothing back) Socialism?

I applaud you for your support of SFW, as misguided as I believe it is. However, I can't see where Don saying it's time to "revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource" is his way of saying "that the much of the public is doing nothing to keep the resource going." He is talking about ownership of the resource plain and simple.
 
Utah400 elk, I do believe that the public State owns the wildlife. I do not think that landowners own wildlife except as set up in high fenced areas. Then that wildlife must have been purchased by the landowner.
I do think that the public has done much for wildlife. I also recently seen something on television where much of the money that has been raised by hunting though taxes on guns, ammo etc that is suppose to go to the states has been hijacked by the Obama administration. The states are not saying anything because of the threats of the administration. But yes, the public has done much for wildlife. There needs to be more done.
I do believe that when the government wants to take care of everyone and they do nothing that is socialism. I think that when someone is given something for nothing like you giving me something is not. It is distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done. Now the tags that are given to the expo are not free. The money that comes from those tags go back to the DWR. Even the 200 tags when drawn are given a paper were they go to the DWR and purchase the tag they got in the drawing. The only free part of the 200 tags is the $5 to put in on them. Much like the $10 that goes to Nevada when putting in for the Utah hunts.
I see what you are saying about Don saying that the public is not doing to keep the resource going. I feel that even though people who buy guns and ammo as well as other things that are taxed were the taxes are to help wildlife is doing something. However, There are times that many people feel that is good enough. Then complain about not enough being done. To explain, I am not a dedicated hunter. However I spend much time in the field doing things that the dedicated hunters do for hours. Probably more hours than they do. I am not bragging. I just feel that there is much to do to improve hunting and many more people can do much more. For my self, I do not care. For my grandkids I care very much. I want them to hunt. Sorry that I rambled but I think I got your questions.
 
Utah400:

Your arguements are valid. Your arguements go farther than some of the others on here that resort to personal attacks and name calling, when someone on this forum does not agree with them.

I support public ownership of wildlife. But, those who represent the "public" (The Game and Fish), should be held accountable as well.

The whole "tag grab" has got out of hand. I agree that too many tags are being auctioned in Utah.

What surprises me most, is that I never hear other orgs on here getting blasted. I wonder how how many other org's get in on this "tag grab" I know of a few and I am sure there are many more.

So, why isn't the DWR (Utah in my case), receiving the bulk of the critisism? Aren't they the ones who should be ultimately held accountable? Are not they the ones who have bought off this tag distribution. I guess thats what baffles me the most about all these threads. There is not one org that I 100% agree with. However, there is some good out there and its up to me to do my OWN due dilegence (which I don't always do)and find the one that best represents what I believe.
 
Very valid questions/points. IMO SFW is always quick to jump to the front and claim they are the ones that have done the most for Utah, created the big elk in Utah, The big Deer on the henries, the AI hunt etc. Therefore they are the ones who will take the brunt of the criticism One of my problems with their claims is that the money claims SFW has spent on wildlife never adds up. It is always strange math to get to their millions spent on wildlife etc. A LOT of that money is federal money being used but SFW claims they are the ones responsible for it. That is my problem with their claims. It is a public resource and therefore should be looked over. I agree that everybody should investigate the organizations and determine which one best represents them.

The DWR has done a terrible job in Utah IMO. There are statutory requirements that are not being met. It is up to the Utah DWR to follow up on the Tags in Utah. I have done the math a few times on the Utah tags and have found where the conservation organizations were given more than 5% of the LE tags or more than the allotted (I think it's 10%) of the OIL tags. I believe Don even stated it was Utah's job to make sure the conservation organizations don't get too many tags. I simply don't agree. , I believe both should make sure the statutory requirements are met. The Utah DWR and all conservation organizations have failed IMO. For instance. I few years ago I believe that SFW was given a premium tag for San Juan elk. There were three public tags. That year they received 25% of the premium elk tags or San Juan (I am going from memory so I might be wrong on the actual numbers but it was well above the 5%). The conservation organizations then a few took less tags from units like Wasatch archery. I argued that not all tags were equal. Don's response was that was the Utah DWR job to make sure that didn't happen.

In this instance I was simply pointing out that Don has said he think it's time to revisit the idea that the resource is public owned. That is a scary trend to me.
 
There are big things and little things, and pushing or even talking about the transfer of ownership of wildlife from the public to private individuals is a BIG thing, the selling of public land is a BIG thing, how many OIL tags are given out this year, or the fact that deer numbers are low in Utah is a comparatively small thing.
 
Elk400,Piper:

Both your posts are correct IMO.

In reality, I think some good has come from these Org's. In particular, and I know I sound like a broken record (from relating this in past threads), SFW has done some good in my area.

I have seen them donate to a starving deer herd and re-seed here in Northern Utah. I have also seen some of there "chaining" projects on the Henries (that I believe was a good thing).

These are the types of things I like to see.

No accountability for spending and opinions about public resources (that 400 elk related) are what I do not want to see.

IMO, our dee herd is a complete disaster. Time will tell if the new "zones" will work. The elk herd, compared to 20-25 years ago, is much better off. I think that the OIL tags are too.

I think its good to debate these issues and bring the problems to light. No honest person should have nothing to hide.
As far as the bashing one another, due to their stance on wildlife issue, I will never take these people seriously!
 
Woodruffhunter, I am not sure but I think that it was the legislators that set the number of tags and not the DWR. I could be wrong. I just thought that they had to go to the legislators to get the tags.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-12 AT 03:33PM (MST)[p]I think those that are getting tags are SFW, MDF, RMEF, Turkey federation, Ducks unlimited, and FNAS. I think this year ducks unlimited does not have tags. On the audit last year they had not followed through with what they were suppose to do and were on the spot. RMEF also had been late with the money that they had. That was from the audit that the DWR gave at a big game meeting last fall. One of the things that they look at is who gets the most money out of the tags.
 
I think SCI does as well Birdman (but I might be wrong).

"Woodruffhunter, I am not sure but I think that it was the legislators that set the number of tags and not the DWR. I could be wrong. I just thought that they had to go to the legislators to get the tags"

You might be right. I am not 100% sure about the DWR, but thought that they did.
 
The legislators have NOTHING to do with the number of tags allotted. It is the Wildlife board that makes that decision 100% after the DWr makes recommendations. Same for the convention permit raffle.

Just to clarify.

And the VAST majority of the money spent on these projects is money raised from the sale of these PUBLIC tags not money that the org actually raised outside of these tags.

And FYI, these tags would sell for what they sell for if the DWR or anyone else sold them as well. The groups just happen to be the ones selling them.

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-12
>AT 05:15?AM (MST)
>
>Wow!!! Relentless Gents!!! I'll give
>it to you for effort
>even if your results are
>minor.

Just wait, your tower will fall. Too many are waking up.
 
I would kinda like to see a private organazation have a crack at running the wildlife for 5-10 years. The UDWR has had a chance and between bogus population/buck to doe ratio counts, over thinking biologists that dont want to believe predators kill deer,and spending wildlife related income on every failing state program under the DNR logo i'd say let someone else have a turn. It couldnt be much worse!
 
These groups have been running the DWR. If you dont know that then you are not to up to date on how Utah functions.

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
Yep, Don Peay is truly a modern day Robin Hood....except with a twist, he robs from the poor to give to the rich!
 
I am pretty sure that the article pointed out that in 2010 SFW spent 1.1 million on expo/conventions, and 1.4 on habitat. TONY ABBOTT, haven't we discussed that SFW would spend a majority, or sizeable, or large portion of their money on habitat?

We all suspected that this was Don's perspective(therfore SFW's since he is the spokesmouth for them), I am pretty shocked that he would put it out in public. How damn dumb are we, while we are clamoring for a public accounting of the odds and where the money goes, DON is trying to overthrough the Alaskan constitution. Give the man credit, he has HUGE BALLS!!! Hey COOLAID DRINKERS, READ THE SIGNATURE AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS POST, you are now in SFWs sights!!


When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
 
State Rep. Mike Hawker from Alaska is one that is opposed to the bill. He does not hunt but loves to target practice. He said he would fight it. He was asked about a proposal being circulated within the Parnell administration to give special hunting privileges to private landowners in exchange for improving habitat for species such as moose, killing predators, or allowing others to hunt on their land.

Sounds a lot like Utahs CWMU setup. Did the State of Utah give ownership of wildlife to CWMU land owners thus privitizing wildlife?
 
"Peay, who stressed that the Utah chapter isn't trying to push its view in Alaska or even with the Alaska chapter, said it's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource. "


The above seems progressive and radical. It seems like our forefathers had the experience and insight to structure the NAWCM to keep the same things that happened before from happening again. We should heed the lessons in human nature from historical occurrences to avoid repeating the same mistakes.

Also, why would Alaskan's trust that they wouldn't use the exact same business model in Alaska that they have in Utah?

http://unitedwildlifecooperative.org
 
the 1.4 mil they spent was conservation permit money, not convention permit money or their money. The just spend the money the state gives them in tags and take credit for it.

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
Not really, there are other projects where the DWR will not approve money being spent on that they do. One was Dry Mountain that burned a few years ago. The DWR did not want it replanted with pine trees as the deer and elk do not need them. So money from other sources was used to replant trees on the mountain and will continue for a while.
 
Correction, over 95% of the money they put into habitat, water improvements, transplants, studies etc is conservation permit money. THey would have almost ZERO projects done if the state did not give them permits to sell.

Are you happy now Birdie?

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
Not really fishy. I am just glad that you are so full of hatred for SFW and MDF because of what has happened in the past.
 
Don Peays statement is not in the past, its now and provides a window into the thoughts of a strange and arrogant personality.
 
>Not really fishy. I
>am just glad that you
>are so full of hatred
>for SFW and MDF because
>of what has happened in
>the past.

Hey birdie, congrats to you man!! Unlike the rest of us you have become independently wealthy. You can spend 100's of thousands on tags, and even more greasing palms in legislatures to get unlimited hunting year round. Good for you! You are the 1%. The rest of us are just a little troubled that THE DON has decided that he(a UTAH citizen) should overturn the Alaskan constitution in order to allow his paying clients year round hunting. Oh and last I checked, FISHON didn't write the article, so perhaps its your hatred for Tony that is so intense you will gladly let SFW control hunting in the west!



When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
 
Hey Hossy, Thanks for all the credit and the idea that I am rich. Glad that I can spend thousands on hunts. I did not know I had that kind of money. But wish that I did. I think that you are off base on your thinking. Sorry but I ment that Fishy worked for both SFW and MDF before being let go and has some bad feelings. No he did not write the articla but did coment. You have a great day Hossy and good luck with the hate that you have. You are great.
 
WOW!

My knee jerk reaction is the top brass with SFW need a good old fashioned A$$ Whoopin' every time they open their mouths. These people are lying, cheating, back room dealing, criminals.

Theodore Roosevelt once said, "It's best to avoid hitting if it is honorably possible to do so, but never hit soft".

Although it seems tens of thousands, maybe more, Americans would each enjoy taking their turn seperating these goons from their skin, that's not the "politically correct" solution.

Instead I think we should...........

Aww, screw the political correctness, let's throw a blanket over their heads and take them out back.
 
Bird,

Again I guess I am just slow, but isn't the fact that Tony left SFW, claiming all the while that they aren't what they started out as, pretty much just validated by this article? Like Tony or not, but THE DON just pulled back the curtain,and your stuck on if Tony is evil because he worked for them? Lets pretend Tony IS evil, did you miss the freaking forest for the trees? THE DON wants unlimited hunting for his wealthy contributors, in every state in the nation, with NO public input, YEAR ROUND, and your stuck on IS TONY A BAD GUY?? HEY BIRD, DON IS A BAD GUY, perhaps you should pay attention to that, THE DON has a lot of money and powerful friends, TONY is a big, goofy, redhead(Sorry tony, but us big goofy blondes need someone to make fun of!!) with little power and even less influence! Thats not hatred man, thats just pointing the obvious!!


When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
 
Birdie you need to get some facts. It is a fact that the vast majority of money spent on projects for wildlife in utah by MDF and SFW is conservation permit money and SFW will claim money from the legislature. This is un-disputable and not an opinion. This is how it always was and still is.about 95%

2nd My contract with MDF expired and I moved on, get the last magazine form when I was there and the current President MIles Moretti spells it our for you and thanks me for my years of service. (btw I actually hired Miles to replace me).

3rd. you are ignorant to my leaving SFW. That has been hashed out several times and there is no need to do it again.

The issue is ownership of wildlife and it is my responsibility to Utahs wildlife to give any and all info that pertains tho the issue at hand.

FACT is if handout tags that are taken from the public and given to these groups goes away these groups would not be doing any projects for wildlife. This is not an opinion this is a fact. Remember I ran MDF for 5 years and was the lead fundraiser for SFW for over 4 years and KNOW this for a fact.

So why the hatred for me Bird? Is is because I make you question your faith in the farce that is happening to wildlife? Is it because you are jealous of something? Are you just wanting to feel important? What is it?

And Hoss you humor me, no offense taken by what you said, and for a that guy that has little to know influence it is amazing how there is shed hunting on Antelope Island right now. :) ever wonder how that came about. Oh and the guy that has little to no influence stopped a $200,000 allocation out of the legislature to a certain "cause" some group was trying to get last year.

That guy loves doing things behind the scenes. Wanna meet him sometime? I'm pretty good friends with him


Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
ANother thing Birdman

Who are you? You disable your profile and hide behind a screen. I would like to know who you are that pretends to have sooooooo much insight as to what is going on.

Heck, call me, I will buy you lunch. NUmber is below

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
801-885-1274
 
Fishy, I disabled my profile for a good reason. I was getting threats. I had to have blocked numbers blocked on my phone also because of it. Sounds far fetched I know, but I do have the recordings. That is the reason I blocked it. And the ones that ere bashing me also had theirs blocked so I decided to follow.
There is no question that the money spent by these groups come from conservation tags. Isn't that the reason for these tags? To raise money for wildlife? And as for State money allocated, Don goes to the state as a lobbyest and gets the money so yes they take credit for it. Had he not done it the money would not be there. You do make me question the future of wildlife because as I see it, the groups that you are fighting and trying to drag down are doing so much more good for wildlife than you are. Right now, what are you doing to promote wildlife besides tearing down the groups that are doing it. Do I want to feel important, yes to the degree that I want to see wildlife grow for my grandkids. Do I want attention. Nope. I am happy with where I am in life and do not need attention for what I am doing. Guess you can see that I am doing it behind the scenes as I am not shouting my name out here.
Someday maybe I will take you up on that lunch. Not sure where you live now but I am in Nephi area a lot and maybe we should. Have a great day. You deserve it.
 
I only see three people on this entire thread besides yourself that have disabled their profile. Care to come up with any more BS excuses? I doubt seriously that anyone reading your posts has enough concern or considers you important enough to threaten you over this, LOL!
 
Oh Topgun, Does not matter if it is this thread or others. This is not the only one that I have commented on and you know it. It was not blocked until a short time ago. That is when you an others started to get nasty with your words. You know what I mean. But then again, I keep forgetting that you know everything. I really need to write that down and put it on my wall. TOPGUN KNOWS ALL. May I say that I hope that you have a GREAT DAY. Hope all goes well for you today and always. You are really a great guy. I wish you the best. Keep hunting there in Michigan. It is the best place for you.
 
Birdman thanks for the explanation and whether that is true or not does not matter to me. As for Utahs wildlife, it is in worse shape now than when all the tag grab started. There is less hunting opportunity now than there was 20 years ago. These are facts. we have lost well over 100,000 hunters in the last 18 years. Where is the success in that?

And Is still do plenty for wildlife but I do it behind the scenes. I dont do it by taking free permits, selling them and then claiming look at all I did for wildlife.

No Birdman I do it in a lot different ways that work. So if you continue to remain anonymous then we do not need to have any more interaction. Trust me when I tell you more people hate me than you, but I do not climb into a shell and hide.

Good luck with whatever you do, just remember this. I was involved with both groups for a long time, I have a better knowledge then you do.

Peace

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
Birdman---Do you really think that you're important enough for anyone to stalk or do anything else to you other than to bug the chit out of you on these Forums, LOL!!! If you do, it's no wonder you spout the crappola you do with no name behind it! PS: I'm having another great day and can't wait until Fall to get out west hunting again!
PPS: Listen to Tony!
 
Fishon, There is no question that there is less of a chance to hunt now days than there was 20 years ago. I know the deer herd is probably the most in trouble. The pheasants have gone down hill with the quail but over all there is more permits when it comes to the Buffalo, Goats, Bighorns, Moose and so on. The problem is there is much more people putting in for those permits. With the population growing as much as it has the applications for the permits have raised drastically. 20 Years ago I put in and now I have 11 kids and grandkids also putting in. That is one of the reasons that it is hard to draw a permit.
That is fine that more people hate you than me. I am not climbing into a shell. I just do not need to have some of the things continue that have. For several years I have had my name open but about a month ago I changed it. You yourself have commented to me by name. So think back. Things got out of hand about 2 months ago with the phone call, watch your dogs. Ill feed them for you. We have the recording. Problem is when talking to the police, they can track the phone call but charges have to me made. I do not want that to happen. I am sure it was all in the heat of the battle.
 
Topgun, do I think that I am that important, No I do not. I am just another fly on the wall. Just guess I have pissed off people enough. Glad that you are coming out west to hunt again. Wish you luck on drawing a tag in Utah. If you do and need any help, Let me know. Glad to guide you to the right location.
Do you or others bug me, not at all. There is nothing anyone can say that can hurt my feelings. Nothing you can do to bug me but the challange is there to dish it back. I love a good challange. Kind of like hunting, there is a challange to get the animal. That is what gets is going is knowing I am elk hunting this fall. The challange that is coming. Glad you are having a great day. That is important. Keep it up.
 
Birdman---That's really a shame if you got a call like that! That is absolutely uncalled for, unacceptable, and the person who would do anything like that should be prosecuted.
Please know that even though we dish it out at each other I know you have a good heart and just want what I do! I just feel that if everyone worked together, instead of having certain factions like SFW/BFG that are not looking to help anyone but themselves, we would all be a lot better off. I think that is what all of us that are fighting this outfit are trying to do and it would be nice to have you and every one of the common guys like us on the same side to fight that big money philosophy. Have a good one Bro---MIKE
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-12 AT 09:56PM (MST)[p]Topgun, You are absolutely right about if we all worked together there would be no need of these groups. Problem is we do not work together and there are always different views from different people. One thing I would say is that we both want better hunting in the country. I could say the west as you hunt also in the west. Difference is we both have different views on the way to help things out. You think SFW and BGF are a farce and you seem to truely believe it. On the other hand I think that they are helping with what is going on. Maybe I have drank to much of the coolade but I do believe different than you. We both think we are right. I know that we will probably never agree on this and that is fine. Just like today, I had lunch with two people that think Obama should be reelected. I do not feel that way. We are still friends. Same on here. I know I am as guilty as the next when dishing out comments. I really feel that the name calling is not needed. My belief. I know that we are both whating the same thing being making hunting much better. We just do not agree on the way that it needs to be done. I do not think we need to be enemies over it. Just civil talk. Name calling is really not accomplishing anything. Like I said I am as guilty as the next. I do mean it with the idea that I wish you luck on the draw and you get the tags that you want. I so wish you luck in your hunts.
 
I personally think that " The great DON" is just a wolf in Sheep's Clothing when it comes to taking Utah's "PUBLIC" animals and selling them to the Highest bidder!!!!

Don (or whoever within SFW) who do you truly think the Average Joe is????

How can you seriously claim to be protecting Utah's wildlife from wolves yet then take them from the general public and move them to private ownership??? Can you truly sleep at night knowing what you are truly doing? I guess the answer is yes since you have been doing it for how long???

Sportsmen in UTAH and the WEST, when are we going to stand up and tell him where to go when it comes to management of OUR wildlife???
 
AKA, You are truly intitaled to your own opinion. Who does SFW think tht the average Joe is? They think that it is people who like to hunt. People who do not have money or may have money. All hunters is who they think is the average Joe. Sleeping at night can be hard as there are always times when thinking of what can be done to produce more wildlife. It takes money to do projects. The tags produce that money. I know it is hard to believe but the division audits every year now on the permit money.
 
Birdman stated: "I know it is hard to believe but the division audits every year now on the permit money."

If the money is audited yearly, the paperwork should be readily available to verify incoming and outgoing monies and where it went. Therefore, please show us what the Expo took in each year for the last several years and what the money was spent on. If the vast majority went to habitat projects and you can back it up with verifible facts and figures, I will take back everything negative I've said about the SFW! That's basically what all of us have been asking for and we are getting nowhere. Please don't ask us to do that because we have tried asking for transparency and got nowhere with the organization! The onus is on those who say the group is doing a good job with the money and not us to have to keep digging to try to verify what should be out in the open.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-12 AT 10:02PM (MST)[p]What I know is every year the DWR gives an account of the money to the Big Game Board and a review of all the groups that receive tags. That review is done at a public meeting for anyone to see. That I know. At one meeting they gave a check to DWR for $300,000 plus dollars at the big game meeting and was blasted. The next time they invited the DWR to them and gave a check for $609,000 not in front of the public. That money was used for the departments projects.
 
That sounds about right, why do in public what you can do behind closed doors, the SFW motto


When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
 
Will hoss, That is a great statement. It is because of people like you that mock everything that they do. If they do it in public, then they are trying to buy something. If they do it behind closed doors, then they are hiding something. Close minded people like you will fight everythihg they do. If If they went out and said they are bringing in 200,000 deer into this state from somewhere else you would find fault in that. When they did the buffalo transplant from the henries to the book cliffs I am sure you thought that was wrong. When they brought the big horns in to several parts of the state to get new herds, I am sure you thought that was a mistake. Will that is fine. You have your beliefs and even though you are very close minded, that is to the truth of some things, life goes on. The FACT is SFW is successful. As long as they are wildlife will continue to increase for the average Joe. Like on your other post, You ask Don to do something then turn around an make fun of him. If someone did that to you, would you comply? Hell no. If you treat someone deceint then they do the same. When you treat someone rotten, don't expect to get your answer. Wise up.
 
Birdman---Maybe they got blasted because instead of that check for $300,000, it should have been for a couple million, seeing as how they rake in over 3 million dollars from the Expo alone every year. Even $600,000 is chump change when you're taking in the amount of money they are and that's the whole problem everyone has with them. It's not that they are doing some good, which it appears they are, but it's the money that is going for all kinds of other stuff that isn't being accounted for. Transparency man, transparency. That is what the majority of us are trying to get across to you and you just don't seem to listen and let that go right on by! It's not just the tag grab that is so hard to swallow, but the pill would go down a lot easier if we could take it with a full glass of water, that being a lot more money they are collecting going to habitat that isn't! Have a good weekend like I am---MIKE
 
"The pheasants have gone down hill with the quail but over all there is more permits when it comes to the Buffalo, Goats, Bighorns, Moose and so on."




Birdman your a man of facts so go look up the tag numbers that have declined since the big expo came out. You will see a huge cut in the public tags for these animals thats res and nr!

How do you go from 30 bull tags on the henries to 5 in 4 years?

Don peay and $.f.w. is the final anser...



hornkiller.jpg
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-12
>AT 10:02?PM (MST)
>
>What I know is every year
>the DWR gives an account
>of the money to the
>Big Game Board and a
>review of all the groups
>that receive tags. That
>review is done at a
>public meeting for anyone to
>see. That I know.
> At one meeting they
>gave a check to DWR
>for $300,000 plus dollars at
>the big game meeting and
>was blasted. The next
>time they invited the DWR
>to them and gave a
>check for $609,000 not in
>front of the public.
>That money was used for
>the departments projects.


Is "give" really the proper term to be using here? Didn't they owe that money to the division for their cut of conservation tags? Couldn't they have easily mailed the check? I've never seen any of the other orgs present their checks publicly, especially in the middle of a very heated meeting that they were trying to push an agenda in.

It seems calculated and made to sway people that don't know the ins and outs of what is going on.

The teens in my neighborhood could take a little schooling from Byron. They should be handing over those little blue envelopes they collect at the first of every month in front of the congregation. Think of the accolades they are missing out on for all of the great fundraising they are doing!


http://unitedwildlifecooperative.org
 
Tree---Excellent point! It seems that I even remember them using the word "donation" when describing those checks, when they are far from a donation, but money that is rightfully owed to the DWR and not nearly enough either!
 
Hornkiller, Slow down man. The tags for most big game have gone up. They have all at least doubled in numbers but not the deer. Goats making the biggest jump in tags but rocky mountain sheep going up at least 10 times the permits. As for the buffalo, step back and look at the situation. There was way too many buffalo on the Henries as per the BLM. I am sure that you know that the government controls numbers on the mountains as for the big game. There can be an alottment of buffalo. Only so many. They were very much on the high side. Therefore all the cow hunts that they had and the increase of tags. Now that they are back down in numbers after the transfer of buffalo to the book cliffs then they have to start over. Not DP, Not DWR, but the federal government and the cattlemen who fought the number of buffalo. I am not sure on the numbers but I think that they were over by almost 200 buffalo. Now look that the buffalo that have wondered into the Strawberry area, whiteriver, and sheep creek after the transplant to the book cliffs. Those animals came from the indian reservation it is believed and they were to be shot as they can not be in those areas as per the federal government. I am sure that you know that there are laws set up for numbers on the range. That is why the DWR has the cow elk hunts etc to lower the number of elk or wildlife. Not because of no feed, but because they can only have so many animals.
Hornkiller I hear that you had a great goose hunt with your family back east. I am glad that you were able to get out and enjoy. It is always fun to have great family outings.
 
>
> "The pheasants have gone down
>hill with the quail but
>over all there is more
>permits when it comes to
>the Buffalo, Goats, Bighorns, Moose
>and so on."
>
>
>
>
>Birdman your a man of facts
>so go look up the
>tag numbers that have declined
>since the big expo came
>out. You will see a
>huge cut in the public
>tags for these animals thats
>res and nr!
>
>How do you go from 30
>bull tags on the henries
>to 5 in 4 years?
>
>
>Don peay and $.f.w. is the
>final anser...
>
>
>
>
hornkiller.jpg


hornkiller

the buff hunt on the henrys has nothing to do with DP or SFW the cattleman and the BLM are the only thing between me and you from having a chitload of tags for buffs on the henrys. take a closer look at what has been alotted in the past.
 
I'm just a simple country bumpkin from the South, but I would be opposed to private wildlife ownership except in cases of breeding and research facilities (where animals would have to be bought, inspected & yearly permits purchased by the organization/operation).. the only downside from what I've seen in my own state is that private wildlife mgmt has been blowing state mgmt out of the water for years. For instance with our place (we don't own the deer, and only a 5 strand fence that's down in most places), we spend quite a bit of money just catering to deer without expecting anything in return.
 
>Will hoss, That is a
>great statement. It is
>because of people like you
>that mock everything that they
>do. If they do
>it in public, then they
>are trying to buy something.
> If they do it
>behind closed doors, then they
>are hiding something. Close
>minded people like you will
>fight everythihg they do.
>If If they went out
>and said they are bringing
>in 200,000 deer into this
>state from somewhere else you
>would find fault in that.
> When they did the
>buffalo transplant from the henries
>to the book cliffs I
>am sure you thought that
>was wrong. When they
>brought the big horns in
>to several parts of the
>state to get new herds,
>I am sure you thought
>that was a mistake.
>Will that is fine.
>You have your beliefs and
>even though you are very
>close minded, that is
>to the truth of some
>things, life goes on.
>The FACT is SFW is
>successful. As long as
>they are wildlife will continue
>to increase for the average
>Joe. Like on your
>other post, You ask Don
>to do something then turn
>around an make fun of
>him. If someone did
>that to you, would you
>comply? Hell no.
>If you treat someone deceint
>then they do the same.
> When you treat someone
>rotten, don't expect to get
>your answer. Wise up.
>

Mule deer populations are rising? Guess I missed that. Moose populations are rising? Guess I missed that one as well. I really have no opinion on the bison in the book cliffs. The bison by my house(antelope island) are the same as the deer, tame. Therefore I am not a bison enthusiast. Yes, when your Don Peay, and you publicize yourself as the Greatest Wildlife Savior in Utah, then you damn sure better deliver. SFW has been on the scene now for nearly 20yrs?, and the mule deer population is worse today than it was when they started. We now have wolves. We have the most famous guide in the state(or infamous dependending on how you look at it) saying he will not hunt the govs tag due to lack of good elk. HOWEVER, we lost 200+tags, we hunt tame deer on Antelope Island, and we have lost 140,000 hunters either directly or indirectly due to SFW. Then, DON PEAY gives an interview in which he says he supports private ownership of game animals, and landowner game management WITHOUT any input from fish and game departments, and you are so excited that Denny Austad killed a big bull 2 years ago, or that if you sale your house you too can hunt tame deer(antelope island), that you missed the forest for the trees. While your watching your hunting shows, reading your mags, and arguing with me, DON is lobbying to STOP YOU from hunting, PERIOD. But thats fine, I AM OBVIOUSLY THE BAD GUY, afterall I think you should hunt as much as possible, statewide, and have the deep pockets subject to the same draws and waiting periods as you are, without the ability to just buy their way around them. YUP, I AM THE RADICAL, DON IS MAINSTEAM!!!

When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
 

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