Idaho game n fish in the news...

A movement has been started in the State of Idaho that is finally coming to light concerning the management and funding of the wildlife in the State of Idaho. This movement was brought to the light of day by the Idaho Wildlife Federation in Boise through the use of the Freedom of Information Act. The Idaho Wildlife Federation was able to get copies of emails between legislators and a wealthy sportsman about the auction tag bill and the firing of two Idaho Fish and Game commissioners whose first terms were about to expire. The commissioners were invited to reapply for a second term but told that their applications would not be approved by the Senate Resources and Environmental Committee because of pressure from the wealthy sportsman and certain members of the Senate Resources and Environmental Committee (Senate Chairman Steve Bair) so that new commissioners could be appointed who would support the wealthy sportsman and Steve Bairs? position on auction tags. Right now the number of tags is limited to two big horn sheep tags, but the wealthy sportsman and legislators wants an increase to 12 tags that cover all the big game species in Idaho. This will set a precedent which will allow the Senate of the State of Idaho to require additional tags whenever the politically motivated legislators want to increase or change the policy of how big game is managed in Idaho. At all Idaho Department of Fish and Game public meetings around the State of Idaho the public opinion of increasing auction tags has met with intense opposition by the majority of attendees.

The word floating around the State House is that our core group of esteemed Senators would very much like to end up with a system of auctioning tags like that used in Utah. The Utah system has disenfranchised the average citizen of Utah from their ability to hunt big game in the State of Utah. They have been priced out of the market by a system that gives tags to organizations like the Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, who then turn around and auction off hundreds of coveted tags at public events, such as the Salt Lake City Sportsmen?s Expo each year. Sixty percent of the funds raised are retained by the organization and forty percent is turned over to the Utah Game and Fish for the management of the wildlife. All hunting in Utah is now controlled hunt only. A person starting to hunt in Utah for elk at the age of 12 could only draw four elk tags in that state in his lifetime, if he is able to draw an elk tag at all, unless he has the money to buy one of the auction tags!

?
Is this what we want for us and our children and all future generations? There is a lot of wildlife of trophy quality in Utah. In spite of this fact, many Utah hunters are turning to Idaho because there are no opportunities left that they can afford in Utah. If we establish this kind of system in Idaho, we will quickly end up like Utah. The problem is we will not have anywhere to turn when this happens here. Do not doubt for a minute that this will happen. The plans have already been set in motion by the Idaho Senate Resources and Environmental Committee chaired by Steve Bair! The wealthy sportsman has been spending a lot of money on political donations at the state level in order to get increased auction tags in Idaho as well as influence the appointment of Idaho Fish and Game Commissioners sympathetic to his views.

When the 1938 Initiative passed it, was specifically for the purpose of removing the management of the wildlife of Idaho from the political arena. Since that time the Legislature has been trying to regain control of the resource. It is time for every hunter and angler to notify the Legislature that we will not accept their interference with the operation of the Idaho Fish and Game Commission. There have been no problems in the past with the management by this commission, which has been following the mandate given in 1938. That is 78 years of operation. This is not the time to politicize our wildlife management. The only thing that we can do to stop hijacking of our state?s resource for the enrichment of the few and to the detriment of all of the citizens of this State is to let these self-serving legislators hear from you individually. Tell them of your opposition of giving any tag to anyone for private sale be they landowners or wealthy sportsmen. You should also target the ringleaders of this atrocity and let them know that when they are next up for election, we will not support them and intend to support their opposition at the next election. This is ultimately the only language that these multi-term self-righteous legislators understand. Please do not sit by and allow this to happen. Act now! I was president of the Safari Club Idaho Chapter during the Bear Initiative of 1996 and very active in the defeat of that attempt to end bear hunting in Idaho. I did not defeat the initiative by myself. I had the support of the hunters, trappers and all sportsmen of this state when this happened. Together we blew the animal rights activists out of the State of Idaho. We beat them so badly that they have not come back to Idaho since their 1996 defeat! Sportsmen of Idaho beat the state animal rights organization, The Humane Society of the United States, by a whopping 67% to 33% of the popular vote! We can do it again working together.


I am asking each of you to investigate immediately what I am saying. Go on the internet to the Idaho Wildlife Federation website and see for yourself what is happening. While you are at it please access the letter to Sen. Brent Hill, President Pro Tempore, which was signed by 15 past Idaho Fish and Game Commissioners asking for the removal of Senator Steve Bair as Chairman of the Senate Resources and Environmental Committee to find out the truth of what has been going on for the past two years. If Idaho hunters and fishers do not step up now, there can be no doubt of the outcome for future generations of Idaho sportsmen. I may not have too many seasons left in me, but I do have children and grandchildren who I want to have the same opportunities that I did.

I realize that most of you have never heard of me. That you may not believe what I am saying or think that I have my own gain at heart. I have devoted many years of my charitable time to organizations such as the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation (15 years), Idaho Wildlife Council (7 years), Safari Club Idaho Chapter (20 years), Southeastern Idaho Mule Deer Foundation (15 years), and the National Wild Turkey Foundation (12 years). I am a 70 year native of Idaho and during that time I have hunted the length and breadth of this State.








[font color="blue"]It Was them Damn Lake Trout that took them Elk
out!:D[/font]
 
Wow! That was a smelly load of doody. My personal favorite quote is this.

"The Utah system has disenfranchised the average citizen of Utah from their ability to hunt big game in the State of Utah."


We however know it was less than one percent of the state's big game tags that have been used for auction purposes. THOSE POOR "DISENFRANCHISED" HUNTERS MUST NOT BE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE OTHER %99 THAT WAS LEFT FOR THEM.
 
Tri,

I am sure you swagged that stat, and that's fine, cuz it's probably a fair swag. However, take out the general tags. What percentage of premium tags are auction tags. That would be more honest.
 
Sherlock,

Are you saying that the article wasn't "honest"? Because that statement they printed didn't make that designation. They just want people in Idaho to believe all middle of the road hunting is over in Utah, which couldn't be further from the truth.

If they want to come back and say this is a class warfare battle over horns I am fine with that. Because that's pretty much all it is.

Selfish people in a war to see who kills the last mule deer.
 
Tristate, I am not sure where you have been since the Utah sheep discussion but it sure has been nice for the rest of us reading these forums. I am sure many on here could give suggestions for another trip if you need help.

Maybe for now you could concentrate on your next canned high fence hunt and start scouting for your spring turkey hunt. The rest of us little people will continue to battling for our deer and keep the population of the kings deer to a minimum.

Kind regards,

Deepcolor
 
Tri, You sir are always welcome at my family's hunt camp!!!!!!! For real,, we need a latrine digger.. And, you are the best ##### pot stirrer there is.. STAY in Texas please,, I'm pretty sure they need your wisdom there..

Rink
 
Sorry I wasn't posting as much but I had to kill a couple of stomper deer and do two conventions.

Good to know yall still don't know how to defend your position with anything more than character assassination and lies.

Here's an idea guys. Show us how YOU will pay for your DWR without those evil rich people you hate so much.

I want to see an actual fiscal plan how all the disenfranchised hunters are going to make it work by themselves. I want you to show us how you are going to make deer hunter numbers higher and make the deer population grow to satisfy the demand AND NOT DECREASE OPPORTUNITY. Lets see it. Put up or shut up.

The fact is this. You need rich people and they need you to make it work for the future of hunting. Symbiosis is the only way hunting will make it into the future. THAT AND A LOT OF MONEY.
 
>Here's an idea guys. Show
>us how YOU will pay
>for your DWR without those
>evil rich people you hate
>so much.
>

Idaho's auction tag bill has 12 tags approved bringing in revenue of $200k. Idaho sold 170k deer licenses last year. $2 to each deer license brings in $340k. Make it $5 and you've just raised $850k. Do it across all tags, millions raised while keeping an equal opportunity for all.
 
Elkass, I don't know how you think a 12 year old could draw 4 LE elk tags in his lifetime. If he starts out now, he will be lucky to even draw one tag by the time he is an old man and at the very most, if he is really lucky and short of pure blind luck, he might draw two.
 
12 tags.

.007%???????

All this noise over .007%???????

Buying a tag no matter what it sells for IS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL. Like I said before this is just an argument for who gets to kill the last deer.

But for the record I agree. Jack them prices on deer licenses but make it about $50 a person and we really start to get somewhere.
 
>Elkass, I don't know how you
>think a 12 year old
>could draw 4 LE elk
>tags in his lifetime.
>If he starts out now,
>he will be lucky to
>even draw one tag by
>the time he is an
>old man and at the
>very most, if he is
>really lucky and short of
>pure blind luck, he might
>draw two.

Can You Show Me Where 'I' Said that bugleb?












[font color="blue"]It Was them Damn Lake Trout that took them Elk
out!:D[/font]
 
What I know is that I have 20 NR points for LE Deer in Utah. When I started down the road to draw a premium tag there were a lot more tags to be had. I have a life time Idaho hunting license even though I have moved away. I have drawn two premium late season tags in Idaho in the same time, unit 45 and 31. If they continue down the road of auctioning off more tags there will be a lot less tags in the pool to draw. Tri surely you can see that there will be less tags for everyone except the wealthy. We all know what side of the fence you are on with the rich and the poachers but you can't really say it has made no difference to those who put in for Utah tags.

DZ
 
This is a good short version of what is going on in Idaho right now. The political strong arm tactics being used against our game department to turn them against the sportsman is the problem. The auction tags are just the beginning. Do some research before dismissing.

Justin
 
Hey Zim, you seem to forget that those SFW members and evil rich people are the public also.

How do you steal from yourself?

If your argument was as righteous as you think it is you wouldn't need to lie to get support.


This is a distribution argument not a crime scene.
 
And as members of the public the rich guys can get in on the same draws as everyone else.

Seriously, just raise the tag and license fees in Idaho by $1 each and it will raise more money than 12 auction tags. Raise it by $5 each and it should completely kill the debate.
 
>12 tags.
>
>.007%???????
>
>All this noise over .007%???????
>
>Buying a tag no matter what
>it sells for IS AN
>EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL.
>Like I said before this
>is just an argument for
>who gets to kill the
>last deer.
>
>But for the record I agree.
> Jack them prices on
>deer licenses but make it
>about $50 a person and
>we really start to get
>somewhere.

you are right, 12 tags across multiple species is not even measureable or worth arguing over. However everyone knows it won't stop at 5 tags, more will keep being added to the list. Utah..... which is now at like 500 tags and if it wasn't for the average knuckle head hunter fighting against it, 100% of the tags would be on that list.

This is no different of a process than anti hunters. Sure they just ask for a tiny tiny piece (compromise) next thing you know, hunting is banned. You tristate is the perfect example of what is wrong with hunting.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
 
>And as members of the public
>the rich guys can get
>in on the same draws
>as everyone else.
>
>Seriously, just raise the tag and
>license fees in Idaho by
>$1 each and it will
>raise more money than 12
>auction tags. Raise it
>by $5 each and it
>should completely kill the debate.
>

The I.F&G. tried to take the logical approach in 2016 and take a minimal raise on tags and licenses, but the small group of legislatures led by Mike Moyle and Baird wanted to have more auction tags. These guys are actually land owners who would really benefit from being able to sell tags on their property. These crooks were directly responsible for getting the two F&G commissioners terminated,because they wouldn't cave in to the legislature. They were basically told if you let us sell landowner tags,then we will will grant a tag increase. So the problem is the hunters and big game of Idaho are suffering and paying the price I hope these crooks aren't allowed to get their way in 2017!!
 
Now hold on guys, we were all told yesterday that these tags are auctioned off in the name of conservation. The only way to keep the species alive is through the money raised by the ultra wealthy and we must accept these terms or face the end of hunting.

Today I hear that these tags could and would be sold by wealthy landowners for personal gain and not in the name of conservation.

Which scenario is accurate and could that fine fellow from Texas be wrong?
 
Less then %1 of the tags ,Huh PigBoy?

Nice spin job you lying sack o chit.

How much would a dumb TexASSan pay for a Utah general deer tag at auction??

Answer the question Pig Boy. Don't be such a coward for once in your pathetic life.
 
You can connect the dots yourself.

But when the treasurer for the Idaho wild sheep foundation (IDWSF IS THE GROUP THAT ACTIONS IDAHOS ONLY CURRENT AUCTION TAG) speaks out and says in his personal opinion the auction tag money is not doing enough good and it's not a good idea to add tags due to limited return. He has absolutely put his future in the organization in Jeopardy just to warn the hunters of Idaho that they are being screwed. While I doubt he can releasing specifics, if anybody would know it would be him. His stance speaks volumes to me.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-17 AT 01:24PM (MST)[p]From my understanding, I heard they are needing at least 500 auctioned tags but think 1000 auction tags is necessary considering the lack of premium units Idaho has versus Utah. So 1000 tags is more likely. But they claim they can raise nearly 7 million dollars off of those 500-1000 auction tags.

Also from my understanding is the verbiage that is wanted in the written law doesn't give a specific number which could mean more auctioned tags as time goes by.

I know of several Idaho folks who might stand behind SOME auctioned tags but the written law would have to give a number.

What's important to understand is Idaho is working with a budget that is 12 years old. Tag prices should go up to satisfy the funds needed. Maybe even auction off a few more tags but lets get real, they want the law written so they can ramp up the auctions in the future if they want to. Which won't gain support from the public.



"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
 
Well we can tell who here has run a business.

Someone answer this question. Which business MAKES more profit?


Business 1 grosses 1 million dollars selling a product to 12 customers.

Business 2 also grosses 1 million dollars by selling the exact same product but has to sell and produce it for 170,000 customers.



Which business model do you think works? Call me names all you want fellas but THAT is the truth in the soup you hate to taste.
 
>Well we can tell who here
>has run a business.
>
>Someone answer this question. Which
>business MAKES more profit?
>
>
>Business 1 grosses 1 million dollars
>selling a product to 12
>customers.
>
>Business 2 also grosses 1 million
>dollars by selling the exact
>same product but has to
>sell and produce it for
>170,000 customers.
>
>
>
>Which business model do you think
>works? Call me names
>all you want fellas but
>THAT is the truth in
>the soup you hate to
>taste.

A concentration in customers is not a good thing. Business A loses one customer and 8% of the profit walked. Business B loses one customer and doesn't notice it. Under your scenario, business B is much more successful, assuming same net profit numbers.
 
Tri, that answer can't be deduced until you have COGS.

If F&G has a fixed expense for their program and personnel to sell licenses/tags, those expenses will remain fixed and not increase with an extra $5 charged per tag as the work required will not increase and no additional personnel will be needed.

However, if you raise the same revenue through auction tags, but a portion of the money is retained by a sponsoring organization (COGS), then your net income is actually less with the auction tags. You would need to raise enough additional money with auction tags to overcome those increased COGS.

Also, as you increase the supply of a rare item (sheep tag) you must also plan for the price of that tag to decline, which requires additional tags to generate the same revenue. As you can see, this is a very inefficient way for IDFG to raise funds (as the IDWSF already knows).

The guys that are pushing this aren't the ones trying to raise money, they're the ones that buy the tags and are trying to decrease the price of their own sheep hunt.

Grizzly
 
It's a simple solution,Idaho-needs to raise tag and licenses after almost 12 years ,and if you survey hunters and fisherman most would agree. Like i stated before,last year the commission wanted a small increase,and this group of landowner/legislatures held the general public at blackmail, and would only grant increases if the commission granted the sale of landowner tags.Consequently these crooks were able to get our illustrious governor to not renew these two commissioners when their time came to be renewed. And these two just happened to be the ones that called it for what it was, basically screwing the hunting public. These same crooks are going to try and get it done again this year,and hopefully there has been enough sportsman outcry,and evidence on what a disaster it has been in Utah, to get it defeated once and for all !!
 
Wait a minute grizz. You actually stumbled onto what I have been trying to tell you for years. If all the tags go to auction YES THE PRICE DOES COME DOWN. Which means it isn't just a rich man game anymore.


You actually think the retained amount by the conservation org is even remotely enough to offset the net that these tags create in comparison to drawn tags?????? Not hardly. We aren't comparing 12 tags to 50 tags we are comparing 12 to 170,000. DO you realize if the entire cost of the 170,000 tags is simply $1 they are still a giant loss compared to the 12 tags. Lets say the conservation org gets %10 of the sale. That is still several hundred thousand dollars more net than the 170k tags.

Yall are fighting for your game and fish orgs to remain broke so you can get a cheep deer tag while screwing rich people AND YOUR VERY OWN KIDS. There is no greater picture of self absorbed behavior in American government than this right here.
 
Why not let Idaho do it themselves. Online auction 12 tags. That's .007% of yall's deer tags. Nothing goes to a conservation org. Just twelve tags that even you can bid on. See what happens. See if yall can push for that. Honestly how does 12 tags threaten hunting that much?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-17 AT 03:25PM (MST)[p]What residents pay, in any state, for deer and elk tags is ridiculously low for the opportunity that it provides us, in my opinion.
If you can't pay $100 for a deer tag and $150 for an elk tag, your efforts might be better spent in another endeavor.
I don't believe those numbers are "kings ransom" type of valuations, just a starting point in a conversation to equitably value the resource to the general public.
Look at the huge sums of money spent on equipment and vehicles by sportsmen. Paying $20 for a deer tag, and then the corresponding state agency having to find additional ways to supplement the management funding seems like an insult to the quarry that we so dearly value pursuing each fall.
I believe IDFG wanted to increase tag prices, but the legislature blocked them from doing it until they acted on this auction tag issue?
 
>Why not let Idaho do it
>themselves. Online auction 12
>tags. That's .007% of
>yall's deer tags. Nothing
>goes to a conservation org.
> Just twelve tags that
>even you can bid on.
> See what happens.
>See if yall can push
>for that. Honestly how
>does 12 tags threaten hunting
>that much?
Even for a troll you have tunnel vision.
Why in the world would Idaho Fish and Game do that when they don't want more auction tags, they do not need more auction tags and the public whose animals they are managing doesn't want more auction tag's?

They want a small fee increase to continue managing the way the public would like. They have done many surveys, crunched the numbers and that is how we got here.
Justin
 
What I still find amusing one post after another is stating what "the public would like" and forgetting the people who want an auction tag ARE THE PUBLIC.




I want yall to answer a question straight. Don't dodge it just answer. What percentage of "the public" do yall consider wealthy?
 
>What I still find amusing one
>post after another is stating
>what "the public would like"
>and forgetting the people who
>want an auction tag ARE
>THE PUBLIC.
>
>
>
>
>I want yall to answer a
>question straight. Don't dodge
>it just answer. What
>percentage of "the public" do
>yall consider wealthy?

The public was surveyed a few times. Rich, poor and average all had a chance to respond. Why do you think it was bias?


Justin
 
So you won't answer the question plus you put words in my mouth I didn't say.

Let's have a real discussion. Answer the question and get it started.
 
>So you won't answer the question
>plus you put words in
>my mouth I didn't say.
>
>
>Let's have a real discussion.
>Answer the question and get
>it started.

I've probably read 3000 of your posts and I've never seen you answer any legitimate question with a straight answer.
Your question is intended to distract from the point and is irrelevant as proven by my response. It doesn't deserve an answer.
Justin
 
It's not the percentage of tags, it is the corruption that goes along with it. Backdoor deals for the rich owners, controlling the wildlife board. If it was one tag, I would still think it is not right if it is not above board.

Rich
 
Here's why none of yall will answer the question. IT SHOWS HOW GREEDY YOU ARE.

%1 of this country is wealthy by most people's definition. THEY HAVE JUST AS MUCH RIGHT TO THOSE TAGS AS YOU. But your greed won't let them play with distribution the way they want to.

That's right yall are soooooo greedy you won't allow %1 of the populace manage %.007 of the tags.
 
>Wow! That was a smelly
>load of doody. My
>personal favorite quote is this.
>
>
>"The Utah system has disenfranchised the
>average citizen of Utah from
>their ability to hunt big
>game in the State of
>Utah."
>
>
>We however know it was less
>than one percent of the
>state's big game tags that
>have been used for auction
>purposes. THOSE POOR "DISENFRANCHISED"
>HUNTERS MUST NOT BE TAKING
>ADVANTAGE OF THE OTHER %99
>THAT WAS LEFT FOR THEM.
>

Tri, your not an average citizen from Utah, we know your for buying big game tags and having a guide hold your hand, your position hasn't changed. However, when the post talks about what has happened to the average Utah citizen, it simply doesn't involve you.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>Sorry I wasn't posting as much
>but I had to kill
>a couple of stomper deer
>and do two conventions.
>
>Good to know yall still don't
>know how to defend your
>position with anything more than
>character assassination and lies.
>
>Here's an idea guys. Show
>us how YOU will pay
>for your DWR without those
>evil rich people you hate
>so much.
>
>I want to see an actual
>fiscal plan how all the
>disenfranchised hunters are going to
>make it work by themselves.
> I want you to
>show us how you are
>going to make deer hunter
>numbers higher and make the
>deer population grow to satisfy
>the demand AND NOT DECREASE
>OPPORTUNITY. Lets see it.
> Put up or shut
>up.
>
>The fact is this. You
>need rich people and they
>need you to make it
>work for the future of
>hunting. Symbiosis is the
>only way hunting will make
>it into the future.
>THAT AND A LOT OF
>MONEY.

Heres how, and nice try at the spin. The state of Utah sets up an auction site, say.... like the one they use for the general draw. On it they have, oh I don't know, 200 tags for auction. They then, auction them off, AND KEEP ALL, 100% of the money to "fund the dwr". How is it that keeping40% of the money funds the dwr in your eyes, but keeping 100% wouldn't? Or is it your contention that Lee Greenwood is such a fabulous performer that the only way a guy will spend $300,000 on an AI tag is if he hears "god bless the USA"?

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
You need to read what I say Hossblur. I have NEVER had anything against the DWR selling their own tags by auction. If they want to try it directly and cut out conservation orgs go for it. We can try that for awhile and see how it goes.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-17 AT 07:28AM (MST)[p]So you don't even have a defense for these lies?

I'm not sure it involves you either. After all I doubt the average citizen of Utah wants to hurt women.
 
>>Well we can tell who here
>>has run a business.
>>
>>Someone answer this question. Which
>>business MAKES more profit?
>>
>>
>>Business 1 grosses 1 million dollars
>>selling a product to 12
>>customers.
>>
>>Business 2 also grosses 1 million
>>dollars by selling the exact
>>same product but has to
>>sell and produce it for
>>170,000 customers.
>>
>>
>>
>>Which business model do you think
>>works? Call me names
>>all you want fellas but
>>THAT is the truth in
>>the soup you hate to
>>taste.
>
>A concentration in customers is not
>a good thing. Business
>A loses one customer and
>8% of the profit walked.
> Business B loses one
>customer and doesn't notice it.
> Under your scenario, business
>B is much more successful,
>assuming same net profit numbers.
>

Well done. Math for that "texas buisness owner" is tough. Not to mention, WHEN all the intermountain west is doing this Utah shizz, you LOWER the price of the tags. The pool of folks who can swing 6 figures for a deer tag is relatively stagnant, and as we learn in BUISNESS 101, competition lowers prices. So, unless that feller from texas knows where there is a bigger pool of deep pockets that is untapped, INCREASING the ammount of states doin auction tags, DECREASES the ammount of profit from the tags to each state, THUS requiring more tags put into auction at lower prices to equal the ammount raised now. Not to mention, just how many months are you gonna open hunting in each state?

Lastly, TRI, here in Utah, and elsewhere, the snow is piling up fast. History teaches us that when that happens, deer die. It will be fascinating to listen to you and your ilk tell us why you NEED all this money for "conservation" as we watch our deer herd get winter killed. Sucks for the locals that the only way to prove you and $fw haven't really done shizz other than throw big state sponsored parties and line pockets, is to have old mother nature kill the deer with snow.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
I find it funny watching people tell me competition lowers prices but when I tell them put all the tags up for auction the exact same people say only rich people will get to hunt.

You can't have it both ways.

As for winter kills and spending money on conservation you really don't know anything about it so you might just want to stick with hurting some girls.
 
pig boy, why did you take down your WLH sheep poaching thread?

Don't be a coward, answer the question, boy.

Stop dodging questions, you're looking like a fool.

Here's another one.

How much will a dumbass TexASSan pay at auction for a general utah deer tag?

Too scared to answer because you know your arguments and your TexASS way is a joke.
 
And that 1% can enter the drawings like the other 99%. That is how you treat everyone equally and with equal rights. That is how you recognize that the 1% are part of the public. You treat all the public the same.

I don't hate anybody for being wealthy, except when it comes with a sense of entitlement making them think they have the right to skip the process that the 99% have to follow. By pushing for the auction tags, the 1% are separating themselves from the rest of the public, not the other way around.

Tri is proving the entitlement with this statement

"%1 of this country is wealthy by most people's definition. But your greed won't let them play with distribution the way they want to."

Who is this "they" he is referring to, I thought he said "they" were one of us. But he clearly says "they" deserve a different system than the rest of us.

Tri is also ignoring the fact that it is unnecessary to sell auction tags to raise money for conservation. Raise tag and license fees for everyone and you dwarf the amount that auction tags will raise.

North American wildlife conservation was funded a lot longer on everyone paying the same price to play the game than it has been by auction tags and landowner tags.
 
First I never said they deserve anything. But they have just as much right to have a choice as you do on how the system gets managed.

I am not ignoring any facts. You think collecting 1 million dollars from 170k people is the same as getting it from a dozen. THAT IS THE FACT YOU CHOOSE TO IGNORE.


"North American wildlife conservation was funded a lot longer on everyone paying the same price to play the game than it has been by auction tags and landowner tags."


No it wasn't, it never has been, and it isn't now. Learn some history.


"And that 1% can enter the drawings like the other 99%."

Because majority rules right?????? Go ahead and say it. You think you get to be greedy because you are in a majority. You just laid all your cards on the table. You are so greedy you won't let %1 of the population even try a different system with less than %1 of the tags.

I have news for you IDelkslayer, I can give you a list as long as my arm of government policies and entire nations who have melted down because they thought the majority should tell everyone else what to do. In the end the GREEDY always fail and your greed will screw the next generation. Go ask these people on here how many times something was coming and they were blinded by greed and now its real.
 
post up the list as long as your short fat stubby arm pig boy. Lets see it. Let's see you post something up for once instead of you just running your mouth with nothing to back it up.

Majority rules pig boy. 99% can and will rule the 1%. Get over it boy. You sound like the little whinny b!t ches that are stii whinning about the election.

You want to let the 1% play with less then 1% of the tags then let them play with the general season tags not just the Limited entry tags/most sought after tags.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-17 AT 09:17AM (MST)[p]I see there are some still replying to the #1 Troll of the site when all they need to do is let him talk to himself and go on with your daily life knowing that it will kill him if you don't respond. Trolls get their rocks off if they even have any by stirring the pot and this Troll needs to be left in his own little world. Trust me that since I quit responding to this jackass my BP has gone down at least 10-15 points just not typing responses to him, LOL!
 
You're right TG.
I just like to see pig boy squirm.
I think it's comical seeing pig boy fight for the 1% only because him and his families whole miserable existance depends on the scraps from the 1%ers.
 
>Yep. Ignore the truth.
>That fixes everything.

It's been like looking into Doug Sayer's head.
You do more to motivate the opposition with your ass backwards way of thinking then you will ever know.
Justin
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-17
>AT 09:17?AM (MST)

>
>I see there are some still
>replying to the #1 Troll
>of the site when all
>they need to do is
>let him talk to himself
>and go on with your
>daily life knowing that it
>will kill him if you
>don't respond. Trolls get
>their rocks off if they
>even have any by stirring
>the pot and this Troll
>needs to be left in
>his own little world.
>Trust me that since I
>quit responding to this jackass
>my BP has gone down
>at least 10-15 points just
>not typing responses to him,
>LOL!

Without traffic this thread means nothing. His passionate ramblings show everyone what we are up against. He doesn't see the way he is used as a devil's advocate to show people how the other side of this thinks they are right.
Justin
 
Where did your thinking get you ID? Is hunting as good for you as it was for your dad? What do you think it will be like for your kids?

Your system broke a long time ago and you want to double down on it. The race car is running on fumes and your solution is to stomp on the gas.
 
^^^^^Exactly!!

Just like his WLH sheep poaching thread. No one would have known about it if it were'nt for pig boys big mouth. LMAO!!!
 
>^^^^^Exactly!!
>
>Just like his WLH sheep poaching
>thread. No one would have
>known about it if it
>were'nt for pig boys big
>mouth. LMAO!!!

Seeing a troll arguing auction tag proceeds with the treasurer of IDWSF then argue business management with the same person who happens to be VP of a large bank is just as good for me.

Justin
 
You know I had a large bank tell me I wasn't ready to build my own shop for my company once. I got the loan somewhere else and paid it off 9 years early. Good thing I listened to those guys.


By the way I saw Wade Lemon at the DSC convention. There was a giant picture of the Nebo Ram and hunter. Everything went well for him there. He seems to be doing really well and so is his family. They are really great folks.

Yall aren't as in touch with reality as you think.
 
Looks like Tricky Tri, the savior of wildlife, is at it again. I better get some popcorn and Mt Dew and enjoy the stupidity.
 
It is simple economics 101. If the division needs more money to manage the resources that are owned by the "public". Simply raise the price of the tags to balance the deficit. I do not know any hunter that would not be willing to pay for a tag to ensure the long term health of the species. As someone said previously in this thread, look at the money we sportsman spend on equipment and the latest dodads, what is a little more spent on our tags. Is it going to stop me from hunting, HELL NO. I believe it is your elected officials that are trying to gain the most out of this auction tag swindle. Maybe the fine sportsman of Idaho need to speak with there ballots and get rid of the special interest that control almost all of the elected officials in this country. As for Tristate, he is only stating his opinion, as the rest of us are. He may have deeper pockets, however he still only gets one vote. Think about it. Tristate, Warren Buffet, Ted Turner, Bill Gates and the rest of the ultra rich are equal on one day with the rest of us. That is voting day.
 
As an Idaho resident, I have never seen the hunting as good as it has been the last 5 years. I bought my first tag in 1979. We have seen mild winters, and nature has provided a surplus of animals because of it. No auction tags provided funds for this surplus. The common argument that spending money increases game populations is partially a myth. While in some cases this is true, ie guzzlers, for the most part past robust fire seasons, good moisture, easy winters, sound game management, and plenty of land increases game populations. So, Mother Nature, God, or whatever you want to believe will do FAR more for game than auction tags will.

After saying all that, this winter is going to knock the s&%t out of the gains we saw the last 5 years. And the proponents of auction tags will still say "See we need to spend more money".
 
Outdoordan, good post. I haven't sat and argued that money always increases game populations. However money is damn important to running a fish and game service. If it wasn't deer tags would be free. You want wardens to catch more poachers? More money. You want to retain good employees? More money. You want to do habitat restoration? Lots more money. You want to defend your state from federal overreach? Piles more money. You want youth hunting programs? Money. You want to effectively decrease winter kill? More money. You want to fight against anti-hunting interests? Yep, more money. You want to open a new big game season? Gonna take some money. You want the state to battle diseases that could decimate your big game? Big money.

These are all just some of the things states do each year to insure our children get just as much opportunity as we had. Not more but at least the same. Every year it gets more expensive and every year they get a little further behind.
 
>Outdoordan, good post. I haven't
>sat and argued that money
>always increases game populations.
>However money is damn important
>to running a fish and
>game service. If it
>wasn't deer tags would be
>free. You want wardens
>to catch more poachers?
>More money. You want
>to retain good employees?
>More money. You want
>to do habitat restoration?
>Lots more money. You
>want to defend your state
>from federal overreach? Piles
>more money. You want
>youth hunting programs? Money.
> You want to effectively
>decrease winter kill? More
>money. You want to
>fight against anti-hunting interests?
>Yep, more money. You
>want to open a new
>big game season? Gonna take
>some money. You want
>the state to battle diseases
>that could decimate your big
>game? Big money.
>
>These are all just some of
>the things states do each
>year to insure our children
>get just as much opportunity
>as we had. Not
>more but at least the
>same. Every year it
>gets more expensive and every
>year they get a little
>further behind.

Disagree, while EVERY agency whines about money, the IDF&G aren't asking for this, the LEGISLATURE is. As others have stated, a nominal increase in funding will keep up with inflation. If habitat restoration is necessary, let's talk to some of the conservation organizations, or get some more money from Pittman Robertson (The Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration Act (also known as the Pittman-Robertson Act (PR)) became law in 1937. The revenue generated from the excise tax is apportioned to state wildlife agencies for conservation efforts, hunter's education and shooting projects and programs.) As you can see, this should be helping with youth programs as well. More wardens, I don't believe will decrease poaching. You could triple the amount of wardens and this country is so big it would swallow them up. Wildlife crimes are solved by tips from other hunters in most cases. Winter kill? This is an article by a MSU wildlife specialist "Feeding deer hay or corn can kill them, because they cannot always digest it. Deer digestion involves protozoa and bacteria that help break down food. Different micro-organisms help digest different types of vegetation. If a deer has been feeding on aspen or willows, it has built up the micro-organisms that digest only this kind of vegetation. If this same deer suddenly fills its stomach with corn or hay, it may not have enough of the corn- and hay-digesting micro-organisms in its stomach to digest the food. A deer can starve to death with a full stomach.' Clearly, Mother Nature controls winter kill.

I won't disagree that money makes the world go round, but I don't believe selling tags is going to amount to much difference. And Utah is a prime example of that. I couldn't tell you how many people I know from Utah come to Idaho to hunt. Most agree that we have it good here, and I'd like to leave it that way.
 
Hey Tri, since these 12 tags will be bringing in the big shots do you think they will hunt 39 general for 200K You act like the tags they will take will be the general tags that there are 170K of them. No they will take 12 of the top 15 tags that exist in Idaho. Then they will leave the remaining 3 for the rest of us bottom dwellers to dream about drawing. Smoke and mirrors is all it is. Once a guy spends 200K on a tag he will make sure he gets first crack at the big ones just like AI. Then us lowly draw guys that hit the lotto can sit back and wait our turn. Hmmmm seems like a bad idea.

DZ
 
Outdoordan,

Corn and hay aren't as lethal as you think. Second, great wildlife biologists plan a lot further than hay and corn to cover their butts.

I like how you think you are going to wave a magic wand and suddenly get more money from the PR act. Good luck with that.
 
>DZ,
>
>Sounds like horns are what you're
>about, not so much a
>hunter.

...says the taxidermist.

Grizzly
 
Great come back pig boy!

and you and all the 1%ers you're sticking up for who have to hire a guide to wipe your a$$, hold your hand and tell which animal has the biggest horns are the real hunters.

Carry on.
 
>Grizzly,
>
>If you haven't noticed I don't
>make my living off of
>horns.


Yea because so many dumbass TexASSans travel around the world to shoot does and cows.
 
>Outdoordan,
>
>Corn and hay aren't as lethal
>as you think. Second,
>great wildlife biologists plan a
>lot further than hay and
>corn to cover their butts.
>
>
>I like how you think you
>are going to wave a
>magic wand and suddenly get
>more money from the PR
>act. Good luck with
>that.

"Corn and hay aren't as lethal as you think" That's not what the consensus of biologists say. If you have a higher degree than a doctorate than I may consider your opinion. The fact is, winter range will determine the survival rates, biologists can only map those areas.

No magic wand needed, there is no "crisis" here.

Question, when was the last time YOU hunted Idaho? It seems it's always some guy from New York, Texas, wherever that wants to dictate what happens in some other state. That's how we got into the wolf debacle.

Over 70% of Idaho is public lands, governed by multiple agencies. "During its history, the state of Idaho has sold 1,760,783 acres of the 4,254,448 acres of land it got at statehood to private interests, according to the analysis of land sale data by The Wilderness Society." This is what the state does to our lands in public trust.

Read more here: http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/...e-politics/article75569547.html#storylink=cpy
 
Maybe if your state had more money from hunting and each deer was actually worth more than a couple of hundred bucks you wouldn't have had a "wolf debacle".

Its been a long time since I have hunted your state. Probably 13 maybe 14 years. That still isn't an argument against sound wildlife planning and conservation. By the way if you can't remember this entire discussion started around an article that was YOUR state trashing another states wildlife practices.

Changing the subject to a public lands discussion still doesn't take away the fact that your state and almost all states within the US need to figure out a way to maximize the money in which they make off of their wildlife.

By the way what is "the consensus of biologists"? Don't just make up stuff. Is that four guys at the coffee shop who read the same report you did? I can line up 100 biologists that disagree with what you said. And if you think handing out corn and hay is wildlife management and planning you are way off base.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-20-17 AT 07:06PM (MST)[p]So what if I'm all about the horns. That seems to be all the $ guys are all about. You don't know me very well if that is what you think. Tell me that the auction tags wont go for either state wide or the very best tags. You are the one saying it is such a small percentage. I don't see Utah auctioning off any general season tags. But you do see the Pauns and Henry in every one of them. So tell me what percentage of Idaho's best tags will these 12 tags represent? Please answer this question without calling me a name.

DZ
 
>Maybe if your state had more
>money from hunting and each
>deer was actually worth more
>than a couple of hundred
>bucks you wouldn't have had
>a "wolf debacle".
>
>Its been a long time since
>I have hunted your state.
> Probably 13 maybe 14
>years. That still isn't
>an argument against sound wildlife
>planning and conservation. By
>the way if you can't
>remember this entire discussion started
>around an article that was
>YOUR state trashing another states
>wildlife practices.
>
>Changing the subject to a public
>lands discussion still doesn't take
>away the fact that your
>state and almost all states
>within the US need to
>figure out a way to
>maximize the money in which
>they make off of their
>wildlife.
>
>By the way what is "the
>consensus of biologists"? Don't
>just make up stuff.
>Is that four guys at
>the coffee shop who read
>the same report you did?
> I can line up
>100 biologists that disagree with
>what you said. And
>if you think handing out
>corn and hay is wildlife
>management and planning you are
>way off base.

My state? What you smoking? Didn't know states could talk. The "wolf debacle" had 0 to do with deer, and you know it. It had to do with well intentioned city people trying to "right a wrong". Hunting is a tradition and "figure out a way to maximize the money in which they make off of their wildlife." is what MOST of us are fighting against. There will be NO hunting unless it's affordable to the guy that makes $10/hour in St. Maries, or Rupert. Hunter numbers will dictate whether or not hunting survives. Certainly most parents aren't going to pay $500 for a deer tag for their 10 year old. Thus, the tradition dies.

You will never line up 100 biologists that will say that corn and alfalfa will help deer survive in the west NEVER, cause you are ignorant to facts.

https://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/pdf/mdwg/mdwg-2_winter_feeding.pdf

http://www.deerfriendly.com/feeding-deer

http://www.gov.mb.ca/sd/wildlife/problem_wildlife/pdf/donotfeedthedeerhandout.pdf

http://www.montana.edu/cpa/news/wwwpb-archives/reso/toughlov.html

http://www.farmanddairy.com/columns/feeding-corn-to-deer-could-be-death-sentence/14324.html
 
You are sitting and arguing things I never said nor do I care about. You have pulled so far off the topic I truly can't even tell what in the world you are discussing.

Never said "the wolf debacle" had to do with deer. I said it had to do with MONEY. You know that thing you keep hoping everyone forgets that a wildlife agency needs.

Hunting isn't solely based on the price kids have to pay for deer tags or deer hunting for that matter. Quit being melodramatic.

I have hundreds of customers who spend way more than $500 every year for their kids to hunt. I have hundreds of customers who don't spend a dime letting their kids hunt all sorts of things other than deer. Quit lumping everyone in the same hole and drawing wild conclusions off of it. That's the same silly Dr. Doolittle thinking that has you worried corn and hay are killing your deer.

$10 an hour workers aren't entitled to a deer tag. Neither am I. Neither are you. I can see how all you do is focus on killing deer and who gets to. Like I said in the beginning this is nothing more than a fight over who gets to kill the last deer and you are proving that.
 
>You are sitting and arguing things
>I never said nor do
>I care about. You
>have pulled so far off
>the topic I truly can't
>even tell what in the
>world you are discussing.
>
>Never said "the wolf debacle" had
>to do with deer.
>I said it had to
>do with MONEY. You
>know that thing you keep
>hoping everyone forgets that a
>wildlife agency needs.
>
>Hunting isn't solely based on the
>price kids have to pay
>for deer tags or deer
>hunting for that matter.
>Quit being melodramatic.
>
>I have hundreds of customers who
>spend way more than $500
>every year for their kids
>to hunt. I have
>hundreds of customers who don't
>spend a dime letting their
>kids hunt all sorts of
>things other than deer.
>Quit lumping everyone in the
>same hole and drawing wild
>conclusions off of it.
>That's the same silly Dr.
>Doolittle thinking that has you
>worried corn and hay are
>killing your deer.
>
>$10 an hour workers aren't entitled
>to a deer tag.
>Neither am I. Neither
>are you. I can
>see how all you do
>is focus on killing deer
>and who gets to.
>Like I said in the
>beginning this is nothing more
>than a fight over who
>gets to kill the last
>deer and you are proving
>that.



Well, there you have it. You have forgotten the topic. To remind; you want auction tags cause you and your clients are gonna fix poor Idaho with all your money. Thanks, appreciate that. Fact is, we don't need or want your help.

Well, on second thought, maybe we can charge your customers kids $500 each and everything will run smooth or just have them send all that disposable income. I'll give you an address.

And I promise, you're high dollar customers can shoot the last deer, really /S.
 
Tri I would really like you to answer my question. I don't think I have ever called you a name so please don't call me one or say what I'm all about, just answer my question.

Thanks, DZ
 
The only thing you have been called by me is DZ so get the sand out of your panties.

When you start arguing and splitting hairs over whether these are limited entry tags and what percentage YOU PROVE MY POINT that the article was a spin hit piece full of lies. That was my entire point in the beginning. THEY said that hunting was only for rich people in Utah when in reality they are just mad about having to share distribution plans of a very tiny percentage of big game hunting tags. THAT IS THE TRUTH. That is the same thing going on here. People want to fight over the areas with higher populations of mature animals to hunt, NOT WHETHER HUNTING IS COMING TO AN END.

My argument is that most of the real hunters aren't sitting here arguing over who's tag distribution model is going to give them personally the best shot at the best deer tag. And no matter what happens the real hunters will be out there hunting again next year no matter what tag they have.

I asked a question earlier on this thread and not one single poster answered it. Not one. Because every single person realized their wasn't a way to answer it without being ashamed of how greedy we are all becoming over HORNS, not hunting.

Instead I watched one person come up with the idea of all hunters come up with another five bucks. He didn't realize the margins on that ain't as good as just auctioning 12 tags. Then another person wanted more PR act money. He didn't realize how hard that is but at the same time showed how he wanted other peoples money without having to give them a voice in the management.


Truthfully the experiment I want to see done is take one general entry unit in a state and make %100 of the tags within that unit auction tags. Take away 1 tag limits. If you buy a tag you get a vote on the wildlife and harvest management for the next year, nobody else. %100 of the tag money stays within that unit. Within a decade every body will be trying to cry their way into a tag for that unit too.
 
Tri- Why don't you see that there are only a few units in Idaho that produce consistent 200" deer. Your plan is to take those tags and sell them to the highest bidder. Right now and in the past each and every guy had a shot at drawing one of those tags. So it might be at less then 1% (see where the % sign goes, say %1 and say 1%) But it is a chance. With your model there is 12 less of the very best tags, so no chance at drawing those 12 tags. I hope that your side looses in Idaho. You already have Utah. Go try your experiments there. I am smart enough to know I wont ever change your mind and I wont change mine. It is a slippery slope that I hope Idaho never goes down.

DZ
 
Then admit it DZ this is about big "200 inch" deer and not hunting. If these twelve tags get auctioned then hunting will continue. Am I wrong? Could you not still go get one of the other 170,000 deer tags and deer hunt? Are you trying to convince people if you don't have a certain percent chance of drawing a "200 inch" deer tag you are going to decide to quit hunting???????? YOU DON"T DESERVE A "200 inch" DEER TAG. No one does.

Have you ever thought if the state had more money to manage deer herds better THERE WOULD BE MORE "200 inch" deer in more units around the state?????????


It is high time you and others quit worrying about your odds on a "200 inch" deer and actually put the deer first. The rest of the who hunts what can get worked out a lot more easily if the deer herds are more stable.
 
My family has harvested 14 elk in the last three seasons. None are trophy status. So are we all about the horns? And in the last three years my family has not harvested one deer. Seems like there are not enough to go around so we have given them a break. This winter will knock them back even further. But you know enough about me to call me out on just being all about the horns.

DZ
 
Then what do you care if a bunch of rich dudes battle with their money for "200 inch" deer tags????? What's it about?????? You have dirt cheap hunting still for you and your kids, meat in the freezer, and the satisfaction of a job well done. So what do you care? Start being honest.
 
Why do we care? Because 12 tags is the beginning of a long campaign to change Idaho's game management system to the Utah model. Auction tags, lottery tags, LAP, more controlled hunts, less OTC tags combined with a bonus/preference point system.

Idaho's current model is better than Utah's. The residents of Idaho like it and want it to remain the same. One wealthy businessman and some easily bought politicians want a Utah.

The sportsmen of Idaho say no and we'll fight the change at every step.
 
Very well said Brymoore. I want what my Grandfather that walked from West Virginia to Idaho when he was 8, and my other grandfather that was half Indian from Rigins Idaho had, for my kids and there kids. It doesn't have to change. Sure more hunters less animals I understand it wont ever be the era where we kill all the predators and have lots of game again. My Grandfather was slapped in the face the day they planted the wolves in Idaho. I plan to keep voicing my opinion even if I'm not out there chasing the 200" deer. I had my chances, now it is the next generations turn.

DZ
 
>I find it funny watching people
>tell me competition lowers prices
>but when I tell them
>put all the tags up
>for auction the exact same
>people say only rich people
>will get to hunt.
>
>You can't have it both ways.
>
>
>As for winter kills and spending
>money on conservation you really
>don't know anything about it
>so you might just want
>to stick with hurting some
>girls.

Says the guy from the city where winter means 60 and sunny. Tell us some more about winter kill oh wise one


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>First I never said they deserve
>anything. But they have
>just as much right to
>have a choice as you
>do on how the system
>gets managed.
>
>I am not ignoring any facts.
> You think collecting 1
>million dollars from 170k people
>is the same as getting
>it from a dozen.
>THAT IS THE FACT YOU
>CHOOSE TO IGNORE.
>
>
>"North American wildlife conservation was funded
>a lot longer on everyone
>paying the same price to
>play the game than it
>has been by auction tags
>and landowner tags."
>
>
>No it wasn't, it never has
>been, and it isn't now.
> Learn some history.
>
>
>"And that 1% can enter the
>drawings like the other 99%."
>
>
>Because majority rules right?????? Go
>ahead and say it.
>You think you get to
>be greedy because you are
>in a majority. You
>just laid all your cards
>on the table. You
>are so greedy you won't
>let %1 of the population
>even try a different system
>with less than %1 of
>the tags.
>
>I have news for you IDelkslayer,
>I can give you a
>list as long as my
>arm of government policies and
>entire nations who have melted
>down because they thought the
>majority should tell everyone else
>what to do. In
>the end the GREEDY always
>fail and your greed will
>screw the next generation.
>Go ask these people on
>here how many times something
>was coming and they were
>blinded by greed and now
>its real.

Tri, at some point this idea or claim of yours dies. $fw has been in existance since the 90's in Utah. I don't know when they started their state sponsored party, but lets just agree its been a decade. IF, your argument had any merit, shouldnt Utah be the #1 across the board state for hunting in the US? Especially for deer, since that was how the camel got in the tent to start with, but, we have done the auction for over a decade, at what point is Utah the #1? See Tri, unlike you, I'm a results guy. IF, the auction system was so effective at creating hunting nirvana, wheres the proof? IF things had turned around so much, and become so great, wouldn't the surrounding states be begging to set up the same system so as to match Utah's success? You can argue LE units have been beneficial, but they started long before $fw existed. You can claim Henrys are awesome, but that unit was completely shut down to hunting, not something $fw did. Yeah I know, Spider Bull, I have no answer for that one, other that its not as cool as you might think, I see it at my local Cabelas every week or so.

SO, TRI, I will answer yours lets see you answer mine. Where are the results to prove auction tags do what they are sold as doing?

Am I greedy? No, if the license was $200 instead of $20 I'd be on board, as long as it was across the board, no "conservation" tags, no expo, no end run on waiting periods or special draws. If the going price is $200, and you, I , Denny, Ms. Waldrip all pay $200, for the same seasons, same waiting periods, etc, I'm all in.

Why not a full out auction? I'm fine with that, with the same rules for everyone, and a weighted system in which resisdents take all the tags, and ONLY whats left is for auction to NR. Yeah in that case, a Texas resident should take president in Texas over a Utah guy.

Do I hate the rich? No, I hate guys with money who believe its there god given right to have special access. On this one, its not the "average" guy who is pushing auction tags, no waiting periods, "conservation tags", CWMU, it the rich guy wanting to keep out competion.

Do I hurt girls? No. Full grown women who poach sheep? YUP. Unlike you, I don't believe in lesser expectations because of race or sex. You illegally kill a sheep, unlike you I don't pat you on the head and say, "oh its ok, your JUST A GIRL, you can't know any better".

So, there you go, you might not like the answers, but I answered them.

Where are the results that the auction system set up by $fw to benefit $fw has been the success you and they claim it to be?


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
I am a wealthy guy, but don't think anything at all like tristate.

Simple fee increases solve F&G financial solvency issues.

I was at church this morning listening to the pastor talk about getting though grief, community, and supporting your fellow man.

Good grief, you must be a lonely guy in a community of one Tri-state. Get some counseling, and start doing something for your neighbor who needs help.
 
Will hunting end in Idaho when 12 tags are auctioned off to the highest bidder? No it will not.

Does each of us have the option to bid on these tags? Yes we do, it's not the wealthy mans fault that you or I cannot afford to hang with them at an auction.

Do my kids still get to hunt next fall when the special hunts are in progress? Yes they do, every year with multiple weapons if they choose.

Will my overall hunting experience be impacted by these auction tags? None that I can see at this time.

I could go on and on with different ways this doesn't effect me directly but the fact remains that these tags will be made available by shady deals and strong arming the honest officials. Raise the license fees, add some different draw tags options, or maybe some affordable raffle type tags if you need more funding.

The average Idaho hunter should feel like they had something broke of in their ass on this deal.



Just my .02 cents.
 
SFW has made more money for Utah with those tags than would have been made by using the draw. Period, fact, end of story. You asked I delivered.



I like how you have giant expectations of yall should be number one just because less than one percent of your tags get auctioned. You don't even know what #1 is. You can't even define what #1 is.

Are you the #1 woman abuser on MM?
 
Grasshopper,

I am not a wealthy guy and I don't think this should be about who has it and who doesn't. THIS IS ABOUT THE WILDLIFE.

I was at church this morning. I have learned I am a steward of the earth and it is my responsibility to conserve wildlife. I also learned sometimes telling someone they are wrong IS SUPPORTING YOUR FELLOW MAN.

Jesus wasn't a "yes man".
 
Deepcolor,

THANK YOU FOR THE HONESTY! You are the first person I think besides myself to actually be honest in this discussion. Honest people can resolve these problems. When we cut past the spin and right to the bone we can get to the solution.

But you did say this.

"The average Idaho hunter should feel like they had something broke of in their ass on this deal."

This may very well be true. Very often people can't move beyond the realm of "feelings" and start dealing in logic. This poses a problem when you have to start making tough decisions regarding science and accounting, both important factors in wildlife management. Some of these decisions might be the capitalization of wildlife tags.
 
I know a girl abuser and winter kill when I see it. :D

You forget my education and the fact that I hunt all over the US.
 
>>First I never said they deserve
>>anything. But they have
>>just as much right to
>>have a choice as you
>>do on how the system
>>gets managed.
>>
>>I am not ignoring any facts.
>> You think collecting 1
>>million dollars from 170k people
>>is the same as getting
>>it from a dozen.
>>THAT IS THE FACT YOU
>>CHOOSE TO IGNORE.
>>
>>
>>"North American wildlife conservation was funded
>>a lot longer on everyone
>>paying the same price to
>>play the game than it
>>has been by auction tags
>>and landowner tags."
>>
>>
>>No it wasn't, it never has
>>been, and it isn't now.
>> Learn some history.
>>
>>
>>"And that 1% can enter the
>>drawings like the other 99%."
>>
>>
>>Because majority rules right?????? Go
>>ahead and say it.
>>You think you get to
>>be greedy because you are
>>in a majority. You
>>just laid all your cards
>>on the table. You
>>are so greedy you won't
>>let %1 of the population
>>even try a different system
>>with less than %1 of
>>the tags.
>>
>>I have news for you IDelkslayer,
>>I can give you a
>>list as long as my
>>arm of government policies and
>>entire nations who have melted
>>down because they thought the
>>majority should tell everyone else
>>what to do. In
>>the end the GREEDY always
>>fail and your greed will
>>screw the next generation.
>>Go ask these people on
>>here how many times something
>>was coming and they were
>>blinded by greed and now
>>its real.
>
>Tri, at some point this idea
>or claim of yours dies.
> $fw has been in
>existance since the 90's in
>Utah. I don't know
>when they started their state
>sponsored party, but lets just
>agree its been a decade.
> IF, your argument had
>any merit, shouldnt Utah be
>the #1 across the board
>state for hunting in the
>US? Especially for deer,
>since that was how the
>camel got in the tent
>to start with, but, we
>have done the auction for
>over a decade, at what
>point is Utah the #1?
> See Tri, unlike you,
>I'm a results guy.
>IF, the auction system was
>so effective at creating hunting
>nirvana, wheres the proof?
>IF things had turned around
>so much, and become so
>great, wouldn't the surrounding states
>be begging to set up
>the same system so as
>to match Utah's success?
>You can argue LE units
>have been beneficial, but they
>started long before $fw existed.
> You can claim Henrys
>are awesome, but that unit
>was completely shut down to
>hunting, not something $fw did.
> Yeah I know, Spider
>Bull, I have no answer
>for that one, other that
>its not as cool as
>you might think, I see
>it at my local Cabelas
>every week or so.
>
>SO, TRI, I will answer yours
>lets see you answer mine.
> Where are the results
>to prove auction tags do
>what they are sold as
>doing?
>
>Am I greedy? No, if
>the license was $200 instead
>of $20 I'd be on
>board, as long as it
>was across the board, no
>"conservation" tags, no expo, no
>end run on waiting periods
>or special draws. If
>the going price is $200,
>and you, I , Denny,
>Ms. Waldrip all pay $200,
>for the same seasons, same
>waiting periods, etc, I'm all
>in.
>
>Why not a full out auction?
> I'm fine with that,
>with the same rules for
>everyone, and a weighted system
>in which resisdents take all
>the tags, and ONLY whats
>left is for auction to
>NR. Yeah in that
>case, a Texas resident should
>take president in Texas over
>a Utah guy.
>
>Do I hate the rich?
>No, I hate guys with
>money who believe its there
>god given right to have
>special access. On this
>one, its not the "average"
>guy who is pushing auction
>tags, no waiting periods, "conservation
>tags", CWMU, it the rich
>guy wanting to keep out
>competion.
>
>Do I hurt girls? No.
> Full grown women who
>poach sheep? YUP.
>Unlike you, I don't believe
>in lesser expectations because of
>race or sex. You
>illegally kill a sheep, unlike
>you I don't pat you
>on the head and say,
>"oh its ok, your JUST
>A GIRL, you can't know
>any better".
>
>So, there you go, you might
>not like the answers, but
>I answered them.
>
>Where are the results that the
>auction system set up by
>$fw to benefit $fw has
>been the success you and
>they claim it to be?
>
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"

TRI, I answered your questions, YOUR TURN


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
The only question you asked which was actually answerable was why not a full auction?

I have said it before I AM TOTALLY FOR AUCTIONING EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE BIG GAME TAGS. I agree, WHY NOT!

As for your silly questions of who's number 1 you have to give some definition. Even a popularity contest has some math in it.
 

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