Enlighten me??

D

davtaiv

Member
Messages
96
Has anyone seen any scientific study done that actually shows that increased human pressure in the winter time actually leads to increased deer, elk or moose mortality? I think there are just to many variables to prove that theory. Even though it may contribute a small amount it should not be a factor that changes how we live.

I think we are being controlled by the government over this "fake shed hunting season idea" when taking a course does not create a season on an inanimate object that no longer is attached to a living protected species.

I hope someone sues the state/DWR over the recent fines for gathering sheds. To get this all straighten out.

Have fun commenting on this idea! :)
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-17 AT 02:33PM (MST)[p]I spent time a couple years ago driving the winter range and feeding deer with a biologist. He without question had theories and backing on the negative effects of pressure on our deer herds during certain times of the year. Sometimes the only reason the government tries to control us is because we are too stupid to control ourselves. Funny that some value the inanimate object more than the well being of the resource.
 
Muley_73 pretty much nails it in his final 2 sentences. Some people are too dumb, or just don't care, to restrain themselves and they also value antlers so much that they don't give a damn about the harm they may cause to animals struggling to survive through the winter.

SMH.
 
I think you're kind of dense if you really think it doesn't hurt them and lead to mortality. You know better that the biologists, eh? Most that question it are dying for sheds.
 
>Has anyone seen any scientific study
>done that actually shows that
>increased human pressure in the
>winter time actually leads to
>increased deer, elk or moose
>mortality? I think there are
>just to many variables to
>prove that theory. Even though
>it may contribute a small
>amount it should not be
>a factor that changes how
>we live.
>
>I think we are being controlled
>by the government over this
>"fake shed hunting season idea"
>when taking a course does
>not create a season on
>an inanimate object that no
>longer is attached to a
>living protected species.
>
>I hope someone sues the state/DWR
>over the recent fines for
>gathering sheds. To get this
>all straighten out.
>
>Have fun commenting on this idea!
>:)



^^^I just did a scientific study....and it shows that you have no common sense.^^^
 
Generally speaking, a sincere question deserves an answer; but I can't help but question the probity of yours. The information, including "studies", is readily available should you have the gumption to pursue the answer yourself.

Indeed, there are many variables associated with your question, and they have all been considered and studied. Some of those include: whether or not the population being disturbed is hunted or not, the sex of the ungulate, whether or not the animal is pregnant, the availability of escape cover, habitat quality, and the general physiological condition of the ungulates at the time, to name a few.

Perhaps if you do your own research, you just might become an advocate for the wildlife that provides you with varying degrees of opportunities to enjoy their existence, or maybe not. I would find it particularly interesting for you to report back to this site on your findings with any conclusions you may draw from such. Good luck on that endeavor...
 
Some things don't really need a million dollar scientific study to know what the cause/effect will be. This is one of those things. I don't know of a thing to say to you to help you understand that.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
So you want to protect a species during the winter time so you can collect money for tags and then kill the thing you are protecting? Now that makes sense too?
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-17 AT 03:15PM (MST)[p]It's very interesting all the comments on here about stressing deer on winter habitat. I was an avid houndsman for 15 years in Wyoming running lions and bobcats. No one, including Game & Fish gave us any crap because we hunted primarily on deer and elk winter range.(guess where you find lions)

Want to go out hunting rabbit, coyote, fox or just plinking; go right ahead. How about predator control? A lot of it done in the winter by plane and snowmobile. Where? That's right, on winter range for big game.

But oh, don't you dare step foot into the outdoors and look for sheds. You are the worst , winter killing game scoundrel alive!

So go ahead and sit there with your cereal box biology degree and tell me the facts as to why all the other outdoor activities don't harm game, but shed hunting does. I have walked over and picked up a shed antler while the buck that just lost it is browsing 100 yards away.

And just so you all know; I am part of a Wyoming Mule Deer Initiative group here in Casper. Next week, the Wyo Game & Fish is funding a study on mule deer by collaring 48 doe mule deer. You want to know how they will be captured? By netting from a helicopter.

But don't you dare go out looking for a shed antler....
 
I don't think we need an expensive study, Just use good old fashonrd common sense. Yep stressing and moving and bothering animals in early spring causes increased mortality.

There you have it, and it didn't cost 20 million dollars either
 
Just curious if the game and fish departments in your state still count pellets to determine the herd numbers? Just saying.
 
>So you want to protect a
>species during the winter time
>so you can collect money
>for tags and then kill
>the thing you are protecting?
>Now that makes sense too?
>

Beginning to sound a lot like an anti troll


txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
According to the official announcement, I can "...hike, drive, showshoe, or recreate..."

But closing shed hunting will "...eliminate a major source of human-caused disturbance to deer and elk..."

I guess if you are chasing deer on a snowmobile, that would stress them. Otherwise why isn't "...hiking, driving, snowshoeing or recreating..." banned? Rhetorical question. No real answer required.


https://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-news/1989-shed-antler-closure-expanded-statewide.html
 
Maybe the state should close access to wintering areas when needed. Idaho has done that in Boise, Idaho Falls, etc.

But all I hear with these whiners is I really want to shed hunt and don't care what happens to the game.
 
>I'd love for someone to explain
>to me how walking around
>in the winter range puts
>more stress than this kinda
>bullshit?
>
>This video was shot in the
>NE region (where the animals
>are struggling the most) recently,
>and posted on Facebook by
>our dwr. https://www.facebook.com/UTAHWILDLIFEOFFICERS/videos/1652476561724584/

I think it is the fact that it has become such a big thing that lots of people are now wanting to do. There have also been reports of people chasing big bucks/bulls on snowmobiles hoping they will drop their antlers in a chase. So, it may be a case of the numbers and like lots of things where a few people ruin it for the rest of us


txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Sounds to me like those that have the biggest issue with the closure just have issues with rules and authority in general.
 
>Just curious if the game and
>fish departments in your state
>still count pellets to determine
>the herd numbers? Just saying.
>


You want to compare states? Really? Anytime...

"If you come across wildlife while you're out hiking, driving, snowshoeing or recreating in Utah this winter, Sheehan strongly encourages you to keep your distance."
But don't hike, drive, snowshoe or recreate finding sheds. Rocket science!

And here's how my state counts game and I get to shoot three elk a year.

96713muddy20mnt.jpg
 
>Maybe the state should close access
>to wintering areas when needed.
>Idaho has done that in
>Boise, Idaho Falls, etc.
>
>But all I hear with these
>whiners is I really want
>to shed hunt and don't
>care what happens to the
>game.


I have a question; when you disagree with someone are you a "whiner"?
 
There exists more good intentions than liberties. Choose wisely which you are willing to give up. Clearly there are enough good intentions to shut down all winter outdoor recreation for one reason or another. Typically restrictions are more easily enacted than removed. I have zero interest in shed hunting but maybe next year it is snowshoeing, or cross country skiing, or outdoor photography, or snow cave camping, or shooting, the list goes on my friends.

When you try and legislate common sense with good intentions, sometimes you get unintended consequences. If we are so worried about it, why not write a criminal code that says it is prima face evidence that anyone who spends anytime stopped in a car on any highway adjacent to a known wintering ground, or on foot, or on any off road conveyance, is unlawfully attempting to gather shed antlers. Just make it a strict liability law to even be where you could upset wintering animals. That is where it will eventually lead.
 
I know this is echoing 1911, again, but I write off line then copy and paste, so I wrote it and I may as well post it.

It would seem.to (almost) everyone, including our Fish and Game Departments, that any kind of pressure, regardless of the source, including cow elk, cougar, and rabbit hunting along with any other kind of disturbance would cause deer and elk to burn unnecessary calories/body fat. Calories/fat that may be needed in March or April, to make it through a long late spring. We never know when one of those late winter springs will come along. But we do know, that occasionally, they do.

While I agree, it is very hard to understand that creating a regulation that delays shed gathering, and not restricting these other activities, under the same regulation, does little to help the mule deer, that the regulation is supposed to be helping.

It would seem logical that everyone would understand the problem and stay out of the field during the winter, without the Departments ever having to make the regulation, but they too, plan cow elk hunts and cougar hunts, every year, knowing the potential, on a bad year, that these hunts will put deer over the edge, when that late spring storm hits. Yet.........they do it every year, in spite of knowing the potential threat, they are, themselves, creating. It is not like hundreds of sportsmen have not complained about these last hunts, for many many years.

So......this year's shed antler regulation looks some what "misguided", when in fact, it should be the norm, and the Departments should not be driving people into these winter range location in any year, for any reason, because they never know when a bad winter, late spring storm, is going to hit.

Having said, that. We all b!tch about too many government regulations, yet without them, away we go, hunting cows, cougars, rabbits, running snow machines, shed hunting, riding horses and what ever, without regard of these deer and elk and the cost it has to our over all, long and short term, mule deer and elk hunting potential.

So.......while it does seem absolutely ridiculous, I'm glad Utah did it, and I think we all need to recognize the need to "back off" until spring breaks, and that includes any and all activities that stress mule deer, not just shed hunting, not only this year but "every year". We all have a good deal of common sense, we all need to use it.

DC
 
Maybe 1911 is right, we as a country should just imitate the many third world country's where there are few if any laws regulating wildlife. Or just go back 100 years ago in this country, does it matter? Should we regulate all this new technology?
Yes we have more and more laws all time, Along with more people and more technology They go hand in hand it seems.

It was strick laws that brought back wildlife from brink of extinction, back in the days of no laws, it's in the history books , but seems to have been forgotten, like a lot of other things.
 
>Maybe 1911 is right, we
>as a country should just
>imitate the many third world
>country's where there are few
>if any laws regulating wildlife.
>Or just go back 100
>years ago in this country,
> does it matter?
> Should we
>regulate all this new technology?
>
> Yes
>we have more and more
>laws all time,
> Along with more people
>and more technology They
>go hand in hand it
>seems.
>
>It was strick laws that brought
>back wildlife from brink of
>extinction, back in the
>days of no laws,
> it's in the history
>books , but
>seems to have been forgotten,
> like a lot of
>other things.


Nice red herring as always piper. Here I'll play with one. Why don't you and your think tanks legislate the marijuana grows out of the California NF's. Once you figure that one out you'll be in a better position to hit the sheds. Hugo Chavez was one of your heroes and he ran a 3rd world. Come to think of it isn't your sweet thing from a 3rd world? I'm confused, do you like them or do you not?

4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
...oh and Piper, would you be for such a draconian strict (not strick) liability law to protect wildlife or not? If a little is good a lot is better. Would you support an all out ban on any outdoor recreation and put the burden of proof on the citizen to show he was not in violation? Don't throw me another red herring. Honestly answer the question and explain why where YOU put that marker is better.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
All winter outdoor recreation groups are not the same in numbers, intensity of impact on wildlife. This isn't the most enlightened thread.
 
I have a 170 acres and I search it pretty hard for sheds. Deer run off and later on they return to where they were. I also go down and shoot guns and trap. I have my horses on that river bottom land so im back again checking on them.

But no deer has died of stress yet.
 
I hope they make this the norm and it becomes a permanent restriction on shed antlers prior to April 1st every year. It's good policy, in my opinion.

Also, what exactly is someone going to sue over for receiving a citation for breaking this law? That is an interesting concept, I'd like to hear more about that.
 
31726065036_79bf4240ea_t.jpg

My current situation precludes me from caring about your opinion but go ahead and give voice to it anyway...

Who wants to restrict shed hunting...
anyone who doesn't shed hunt.

who wants to restrict archery (or ML or rifle or slingshot)
Anyone who doesn't do those sports...

I've got a real live (multi) million dollar study for you.
Buck mortality study in a DAU with 10000 tags issued.
At the meetings to approve/disapprove I pointed out they were going to find high velocity lead causes a lot of death in deer with antlers.

Years later they are still pissing away $ on this and have proven that chunks of lead are very hazardous to deer. many years at 40+%
Even this one, sorry couldn't resist the upyers.

71324dsc02205copy.jpg




We chase them until Dec with guns then for two months with helicopters and collars, then with fixed wing planes till June+

And yet if I walk figure 8's in tall sage I'm the killer???


And yes I will concede that all stress is cumulative, in theory.

And yes I have video and eyewitness accounts of law breaking. And yes I have gone to the meetings where the lies get so woven and tangled you can't even get back to the original premise as they just make it up to each leveled charge, completely contradicting their last lie...

In other words they aren't even very good liars, they don't have to be they have badges and guns.


Look closely at the wording of existing laws...ATTEMPTING TO LOCATE sounds a lot like the federal waterfowl baiting law eh? Everybody is guilty if they feel like writing you up.

The time to stop the camel's nose is when he is still outside the tent grazing.

You think deer don't look up? Try flying over our deer this time of year, they run for miles at the hint of a plane motor... but those evil shed hunters they are the real problem!
 
Why do you shed hunt? Personally, i dont get it. But, why do you? Is it exercise, cabin fever? Fancy yourself Jackson Hole and are building an arch? Or, are you selling horns? If its any of the previous, how did waiting for snow to burn hurt that? Or, are you loosing money? If its exercise, or cabin fever, how did this closure hurt you? There is this thing in hunting called ethics. I dont pond shoot ducks, i dont ground pound pheasants, not because of the legality, but because its not right. Yeah, dudes are hunting cats/coyotes, but isnt that protecting herds? Ya, their are snowmobiles, but seriously, are you telling me they ride the low snow sage brush country? Those of us with wrinkles saw winters in the 80's that nearly cleared deer out of this state. We saw it again in the 90s to some extent. While things have calmed a little, you have to be blind and dumb to not see that this was a tough winter, and there would be a toll. The antler buyers money is still good when it opens. No one stopped you from going outside. This one is a lot to do about nothing. And yeah, uou own the land, but uou dont get yo shoot every deer on it, or elk. The dwr controls that. So ya, they can tell you not yo grab horns on your own land. My guess is, they will be there in a few weeks, unless Bess can grab them with his drone.





"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
I doubt if a few people scattered out picking up sheds would hurt the herds much, so......

Divide the state up (based on wintering grounds) into shed hunting units and auction off permits good for year around, at the Expo. Say, good from March 1st to the end of February the following year. Raise a few bucks.

Just make sure WL is aware of the unit boundaries.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-17 AT 11:50AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-17 AT 11:49?AM (MST)

A few people out gathering horn would be fine, and it used to be that way.

But the are people obsessed with horn hunting, and lots of them. A few years ago my friend said he went out horn hunting on the opening day for it to be legal in Wyoming. He said it was dissapointing to see guys on horses and on foot bringing back horns in the early morning of the opener. So we should go at 12:01 am and use headlamps and spotlights to get the horns before the others do......So I showed up and met him just before midnight, It was surreal, trucks and cars with out of state licence plates, hardly a place to park, and it looked like aliens had landed, spotlights shining and searching everywhere as far as you can see.

Many of you don't understand the obsession people have with this, there are people chasing the them trying to get the horns to fall.

Maybe the Californians on this site don't understand the way it is in Wyoming and Nevada, probably Utah also.

People watch the animals obsessively. And when the horns are ready , watch out.

The problem is that it's not your fathers sport anymore , not even close
 
"Many of you don't understand the obsession people have with this, there are people chasing the them trying to get the horns to fall.

Maybe the Californians on this site don't understand the way it is in Wyoming and Nevada, probably Utah also.

People watch the animals obsessively. And when the horns are ready , watch out.

The problem is that it's not your fathers sport anymore , not even close"



piper, while you and I are worlds apart on nearly everything, you are absolutely right on this, and it needs to be said. They got bailing twine strung across the cedars, antler traps on grain buckets, and pick-ups lining the feeding/bedding areas, 18 hours day.


DC
 
Look at some video of opening day for shed hunting on the Blackfoot WMA here in Montana. I know it was on an episode of Wardens. Pretty sad. mtmuley
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-17 AT 02:10PM (MST)[p]
>But the are people obsessed with
>horn hunting, and lots
>of them. A
>few years ago my friend
>said he went out horn
>hunting on the opening day
>for it to be legal
>in Wyoming.
> He said
>it was dissapointing to see
>guys on horses and on
>foot bringing back horns
>in the early morning of
>the opener.
>
>So we should go at
>12:01 am and use headlamps
>and spotlights to get the
>horns before the others do......So
>I showed up and met
>him just before midnight,
> It was
>surreal, trucks and cars
>with out of state licence
>plates, hardly a place
>to park, and
>it looked like aliens had
>landed, spotlights
>shining and searching everywhere as
>far as you can see.

And why do you think it's this way piper? It's because the May 1st shed season opener has half of Wyo and Utah in the same place and the same time. Same can be said about the Blackfoot HMA in Montana.


>Many of you don't understand the
>obsession people have with this,
> there are people
>chasing the them trying to
>get the horns to fall.

I have never witnessed this in my life except on David Long's video chasing "Goliath". This is game harassment and it's illegal, shed season or not. Hysterical people make these claims all the time. I witnessed testimony at a legislative hearing where we were told
"someone heard" people were chasing animals on ATVs and trying to knock off antlers with baseball bats! Also, sneaking up on bull elk and throwing rocks to knock off antlers! At a legislative hearing!!!!

Trouble with guys like you piper, you say people do all this chasing around of bulls and bucks, but you "heard" it from someone else.


>People watch the animals obsessively. And
>when the horns are ready
>, watch out.

How in the heck do you know "when the horns are ready"???

This is the same ridiculous rhetoric, from the same people who have absolutely no proof shed antler hunting has any effect on game animals. Yes they are antlers piper, not horns. It could be argued, but there is no proof, that animals are harassed less by predators, where human presence is detected. Ignorance is what drives all this rhetoric about shed hunting, not knowledge or common sense.
 
All I do know is what I saw around midnight and it was amazing what lengths lots of people will go through to get antlers. Maybe you are right, there isn't a problem? But I'm guessing there is, albeit. Maybe not as bad as some suggest.
 
What's the difference between picking up bone and chasing critters at hunting season ?

Cause around here I might run into.a few people while im out horn hunting now but hunting season I run into even more.

While horn hunting the elk look at me and don't care I exist. During hunting they get the hell out.

Here is my problem more horn hunting restrictions will lead to more restrictions during hunting
 
This is why I shed hunt, not to sell, but to get out, exercise and be with the kids. This picture was last March, no elk harassed, they were bedded up the mountain in the trees. We saw no other people that day but we had to hike to get there.

Unlike some I know, a dead animal doesn't have to be the meaning of success. My family lives the outdoors and we have lived around deer and elk our whole lives. We do not "stress" anything when we shed hunt.

79341unnamed12.jpg
 
>What's the difference between picking up
>bone and chasing critters at
>hunting season ?
>


The condition of the animals. See what I mean jm?
 
How about outlawing the sale of antlers? That might solve the problem. I'd still go out and pick up sheds, I've never sold them. I wonder how many of the people hunting sheds are also selling them?
 
>How about outlawing the sale of
>antlers? That might solve the
>problem. I'd still go
>out and pick up sheds,
>I've never sold them.
>I wonder how many of
>the people hunting sheds are
>also selling them?

Well Bean!

Here in TARDville!

A Bunch of the Shed Hunters Do Sell the Bone for Profit!

Here's what I Get a Kick out of:

See it every Spring!

Shed Heads Get Serious about it Now Days!

70,000.00 Truck!

30-70K Fifth Wheels!

Pulled Behind the Fifth Wheel A Load of Wheelers/Side X Sides that Cost 20-50K!

Does anybody Know How many Sheds it would Take to Pay for a Rig like this?

Others do it for Fun!

I've Told Jr many a Times:

You know what I'd Rather Have than the Pile of PISSCUTTER Sheds We Have?

The F'N Gas Money/Wear & Tear Money it took to get them!:D

I Can See a Few things coming Soon:

A Permanent Shed Season!

A Shed License you have to Buy!

An Opening Day of Shed Season,JUDAS!

Anybody Remember Opening day of Fishing Season on Strawberry?Well I Sure the Hell Haven't forgot about it!

It Ain't Far off & You're Gonna Pay to Play!

Mark My word on it!












My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-17 AT 05:36PM (MST)[p]>>What's the difference between picking up
>>bone and chasing critters at
>>hunting season ?
>>
>
>
>The condition of the animals. See
>what I mean jm?


So hunting bulls and bucks loosing a ton of weight from the rut right when winter kicks in is better condtion. Huh. See this can keep going both ways
 
Holy balls... some of you guys make my head hurt!

Someone asked "I don't get it. What's the big deal about looking for sheds?"

The answer is: you don't have to understand it. It's something people like to do. I don't get why people like fly fishing. Or snowshoeing. Or cross country skiing. Or why people hunt grouse. Or snow shoe hares. And I certainly have no idea why anyone would drive to bear lake in January to net a stupid little minnow. But I don't have to understand it. I don't have to know why people do things that are stupid and a waste of time in my eyes. It's something they enjoy doing, while being outside in this great state. I don't care if you don't understand shed hunting. But the fact that you don't support a sport or the people who participate in it, all because you don't understand, is the bigger problem we all face as outdoor enthusiasts.

As said before, this shed ban will screw the honest guys. I already know one spot I had been watching all winter has been picked clean by locals this last week. And all I could do about it was be mad and hope that karma would
Do me a favor in the future. I wouldn't mind the season, in fact I'd be all for it, except all that will be found come April 1, is 2 month old boot tracks and that random white horn that is in a stupid spot that the other 6 guys through there before you, missed. It was really disheartening to attend the expo this weekend to see so many "conservation officers" there, when without a doubt, they could have been put to much better use somewhere in this state, patrolling a winter range and stopping illegal activities. But since their biggest weekend of the year, as far hunting and pimping our animals goes, was this weekend, it was apparently much more important that their time was spent patting themselves on the back and managing their bank accounts.
 
Except we do support it just wait till April 1st. How freaking hard is that? If you see somebody breaking a law turn their ass in are you sons of b****** this freaking slow?
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-17 AT 06:13PM (MST)[p]>Holy balls... some of you guys
>make my head hurt!
>
>Someone asked "I don't get it.
>What's the big deal about
>looking for sheds?"
>
>The answer is: you don't have
>to understand it. It's something
>people like to do. I
>don't get why people like
>fly fishing. Or snowshoeing. Or
>cross country skiing. Or why
>people hunt grouse. Or snow
>shoe hares. And I certainly
>have no idea why anyone
>would drive to bear lake
>in January to net a
>stupid little minnow. But I
>don't have to understand it.
>I don't have to know
>why people do things that
>are stupid and a waste
>of time in my eyes.
>It's something they enjoy doing,
>while being outside in this
>great state. I don't care
>if you don't understand shed
>hunting. But the fact that
>you don't support a sport
>or the people who participate
>in it, all because you
>don't understand, is the bigger
>problem we all face as
>outdoor enthusiasts.
>
>As said before, this shed ban
>will screw the honest guys.
>I already know one spot
>I had been watching all
>winter has been picked clean
>by locals this last week.
>And all I could do
>about it was be mad
>and hope that karma would
>
>Do me a favor in the
>future. I wouldn't mind the
>season, in fact I'd be
>all for it, except all
>that will be found come
>April 1, is 2 month
>old boot tracks and that
>random white horn that is
>in a stupid spot that
>the other 6 guys through
>there before you, missed. It
>was really disheartening to attend
>the expo this weekend to
>see so many "conservation officers"
>there, when without a doubt,
>they could have been put
>to much better use somewhere
>in this state, patrolling a
>winter range and stopping illegal
>activities. But since their biggest
>weekend of the year, as
>far hunting and pimping our
>animals goes, was this weekend,
>it was apparently much more
>important that their time was
>spent patting themselves on the
>back and managing their bank
>accounts.

I Told the DWR Saturday it looked like A Good Time to Be Shed Hunting with alot of them at the EXPO!

The One Officer was Quick to Inform Me they Have Officers in the Field in Full Camo!

I Suppose by Next Year You'll See a Few Sheds on their Wall of Shame Trailer!










My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
 
Im lucky to be in area where we respect the animals. We head out late March and start riding the horses. If we find something then great if not then great. My best trips and stories is when I go home empty handed. Whitetails have dropped and been going out. The deer come back with in hours and are fine.

Just my main point is.someday the law will say no shed hunting. It starts with permits to pick up dead heads. Then a season
Then no shed hunting in some areas. Then someday its just gone.. im afraid I will see it in my lifetime.

Even if we had a horn hunting season here I would still be out there riding my horses. Its time to.condtion the horses and head to our outfitting camp and.cleaning trails.

Now there is some great horn hunting trails that don't allow horn hunting till may and I respect the law and don't.
 
Probably won't see any illegally poached sheds in their trailer, but I bet you'll see them sold to a horn buyer ?
 
I think elk and deer season should open July 1st!! It is a family thing and my family loves doing things together and we think it is ridiculous that we have to wait until late August to hunt. We want to hunt and need meat sooner!

If they said no one could ever pick up sheds, I could see your point. But there IS a season, you just don't like the dates they have set. You can say that about any season.

Yes, you can give any number of reasons why you want to pick up fresh sheds, but that is not a legal option. Get used to it or go to the powers that be in enough numbers and get it changed.

Or keep trying to convince enough people on the internet to get involved. Wait, that is what you are trying to do :)

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Tough to read through all the gospel that's been shared on this thread already but to the opening question.
Walt Prothero in his book Mule Deer Quest relates a story story from northern Utah about seeing a cross country skiers dog chase a good buck through the snow then glossing him up again the next day but he had expired during the night.

So causing a deer to expend additional energy during an already stressful time may just be a cause of mortality.

I enjoy getting out in the winter as much as the next guy and that includes shed hunting but I think we are loving these critters to death in some cases.
 
Show Me a Relaxed Time on Our Deer Herd!

3 Shed Hunters In Daniels Canyon Yesterday & 2 in Parleys!









My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-17
>AT 06:13?PM (MST)
>
>>Holy balls... some of you guys
>>make my head hurt!
>>
>>Someone asked "I don't get it.
>>What's the big deal about
>>looking for sheds?"
>>
>>The answer is: you don't have
>>to understand it. It's something
>>people like to do. I
>>don't get why people like
>>fly fishing. Or snowshoeing. Or
>>cross country skiing. Or why
>>people hunt grouse. Or snow
>>shoe hares. And I certainly
>>have no idea why anyone
>>would drive to bear lake
>>in January to net a
>>stupid little minnow. But I
>>don't have to understand it.
>>I don't have to know
>>why people do things that
>>are stupid and a waste
>>of time in my eyes.
>>It's something they enjoy doing,
>>while being outside in this
>>great state. I don't care
>>if you don't understand shed
>>hunting. But the fact that
>>you don't support a sport
>>or the people who participate
>>in it, all because you
>>don't understand, is the bigger
>>problem we all face as
>>outdoor enthusiasts.
>>
>>As said before, this shed ban
>>will screw the honest guys.
>>I already know one spot
>>I had been watching all
>>winter has been picked clean
>>by locals this last week.
>>And all I could do
>>about it was be mad
>>and hope that karma would
>>
>>Do me a favor in the
>>future. I wouldn't mind the
>>season, in fact I'd be
>>all for it, except all
>>that will be found come
>>April 1, is 2 month
>>old boot tracks and that
>>random white horn that is
>>in a stupid spot that
>>the other 6 guys through
>>there before you, missed. It
>>was really disheartening to attend
>>the expo this weekend to
>>see so many "conservation officers"
>>there, when without a doubt,
>>they could have been put
>>to much better use somewhere
>>in this state, patrolling a
>>winter range and stopping illegal
>>activities. But since their biggest
>>weekend of the year, as
>>far hunting and pimping our
>>animals goes, was this weekend,
>>it was apparently much more
>>important that their time was
>>spent patting themselves on the
>>back and managing their bank
>>accounts.
>
>I Told the DWR Saturday it
>looked like A Good Time
>to Be Shed Hunting with
>alot of them at the
>EXPO!
>
>The One Officer was Quick to
>Inform Me they Have Officers
>in the Field in Full
>Camo!
>
>I Suppose by Next Year You'll
>See a Few Sheds on
>their Wall of Shame Trailer!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>My Signature is a Short Clip
>of NVB & His Coal
>Roller!
>"We Better Get out of the
>F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB
>is Coming to MF'N Town"!
>
>

I don't doubt the dwr has officers in the field wearing camo. But I'll bet some if not most, are the guys the horn poachers will be competing with before the peasants can legally pick them up.
 
deerkiller,

So every chance you can you throw out that the fish and wildlife guys are out stealing the sheds. You clearly have a huge chip on your shoulder. I don't know you from Adam. Let me guess though, you have been convicted of poaching and it was the crooked fish cops that got you. Am I close?

Rich
 
>According to the official announcement, I
>can "...hike, drive, showshoe, or
>recreate..."
>
>But closing shed hunting will "...eliminate
>a major source of human-caused
>disturbance to deer and elk..."
>
>
>I guess if you are chasing
>deer on a snowmobile, that
>would stress them. Otherwise
>why isn't "...hiking, driving, snowshoeing
>or recreating..." banned? Rhetorical
>question. No real answer
>required.
>
>
>https://wildlife.utah.gov/wildlife-news/1989-shed-antler-closure-expanded-statewide.html

Maybe it's because if you wait two months, you won't be able to snow shoe, ski, or snowmobile because the snow is gone. If you wait two months, the sheds will still be there. Consequently, there's no loss of user rights, only a deferral of when you can exercise them. Elimination of one form of human vs. game interaction is eliminated.
 
I'm all for protecting the animals, therefore Utah should create new laws forbidding archery shots over 60 yards, muzzleloader shots over 200 yards, and rifle shots over 400 yards. I'd guess many more animals are killed and not recovered by unethical or unskilled hunters than by shed hunters pressuring animals. If that sounds like a ridiculous idea, it's because it is. We don't need new laws. Laws are already in place to go after anyone chasing, pressuring, or harassing wildlife. The majority of shed hunters are ethical and don't hurt the animals, just as most hunters are ethical and don't poach. If some shed hunters do it wrong, then use the laws we have in place and throw the book at them. Those types won't be deterred by new regulations anyhow. Also, if this winter has been has dire as advertised I hope we see a drastic reduction in hunting permits in those areas to make up for it. If there was significant winter kill and tag numbers don't change, then we might accurately assume it's all about protecting revenue and not the animals. I don't see the hunters who don't also shed hunt arguing for that, but they'll sure speak up in favor of new regulations for an activity they don't care about. Lastly (with similar logic), maybe we should create some new gun control laws to protect the citizens of our great country...
 
>Threads like this one are why
>I seldom visit MM these
>days. SMH.

And threads like this are why I frequently visit MM these days! LNT.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-17 AT 02:04PM (MST)[p]Hunting is a sport that is largely dependent on morals, ethics, self-control, and self-reporting.

Sadly, there are those that can't appreciate the danger to our herds from a winter like this and will risk harming deer trying to post up a Facebook picture of a shed they found... and maybe someday be an internet hero to their "Friends".

It is for these internet heroes, that these shed laws are necessary. They don't apply to the level-headed guys that will wait until the deer have moved up the mountain in the spring before chasing sheds, because those guys won't run deer until after that time anyway. Sadly, every mountain is different as to when the animals move out. It would be logistically impossible to pick a date for each mountain range, so they have to pick a safe option for everywhere... hence April 1st.

If you were going to harm deer by chasing their sheds while they were still stressed from the winter, then this law affects you. If you were going to wait until the deer got through the next crucial months before chasing them around, then this law doesn't affect you.

Seems like a win/win to me.

Grizzly
 
>deerkiller,
>
>So every chance you can you
>throw out that the fish
>and wildlife guys are out
>stealing the sheds. You clearly
>have a huge chip on
>your shoulder. I don't know
>you from Adam. Let me
>guess though, you have been
>convicted of poaching and it
>was the crooked fish cops
>that got you. Am
>I close?
>
>Rich

If I recall correctly he got caught on a violation but believes the officer who caught him did the same thing and got off easy. I can not recall but it has came up before...
 
As I see it, the preoccupation with getting the "best," the biggest, and the most is quickly rubbing the luster off hunting. Some of us have become like the teenager at the Easter egg hunt, running to collect all of the eggs he can before the toddlers find them. Relax and enjoy. Share a little. Respect the resource.
 
To the guys that do this, not named deerkiller(the more I hear about him the more I get his perspective), is the April 1 date a bad date for a particular reason? And not because some dude will be out violating it. I mean is there a reason that its bad? Like I said I don't get the sport, not meaning you shouldn't do it, just saying I don't get it so, the honest question is why is it a bad thing to have a start date? Seems to me the only reasons I've heard are, "I don't bother animals", "the other dudes won't honor the date", and then deerkillers reasons which seem to be his personal crusade.

If "other dude won't honor it" is your reason for not liking the season date, doesn't that prove that in your sport there are dudes who pay no attention to anything other than there personal gain? The very kind of guys who do chase and harrass the animals trying to get them to drop. The same guys who without bag limits would kill everything. Without shooting times would shoot 24hrs a day. Without limits, would fill the boat?

So, like the original post said, enlighten me. Seems like I have read a bunch of guys who feel like the DWR hurt there feelings, but I really haven't heard a concrete reason why its a bad idea, such as horns bleach, rats eat them, etc. Is that because other than hurt feeling there isn't one?



"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
The primary downside that I can see is that leaving them on the ground may only encourage more people to get out and look for them. I am envisioning folks "hunting" them without picking them up, and simply marking them on their GPS for later recovery. By leaving them on the ground for a long period of time we might actually increase the number of disturbances to wildlife. But, since I am not a shed hunter, I cannot say that I have seen this pattern. I would be curious to hear how it develops over the next year or two.
 
31726065036_79bf4240ea_t.jpg

My current situation precludes me from caring about your opinion but go ahead and give voice to it anyway...

Interesting all the black and white responses, not surprising in the least but nobody has even addressed the OP's premise question of scientifically exploring the "gray areas"

In tough winters few deer go face down out in the sage compared to getting murdered by the score on highways and RR tracks.

Horn hunters being lazy sob's start there and push them off and up away from the man made hazards. Many return at night to get whacked, some (larger bucks and elk) do not.

Is it a net gain or loss?? I sure don't know and would suspect it to be too close to call without an actual study, the details of which I could not believe they would be able to come up with to form solid conclusions, but it sure would give them something to spend NR tag fees on...

Hossblur, many thinking people have no problem with a range closure but take exception to a shed hunting closure, especially when the start date is damn near summer. Personally I would like to see a strictly enforced 12-15 till 4-1 range closure. It is never even mentioned in meetings, too many oxen would be gored.

For the good of man-kind I must now go out and pick up antlers... it sucks.
 
>In tough winters few deer go
>face down out in the
>sage compared to getting murdered
>by the score on highways
>and RR tracks.
>


How do you figure? In a bad winter, 83-84 for example, fawn mortality can be as high as 95% according to Colorado Parks & Wildlife. This type of winterkill has ripple effects that can last a decade or more (see Utah mule deer historical numbers and you can see the bad winters on a graph). I've never seen anybody claim that type of mortality from
cars and trains.

Grizzly
 
I'm all for the april 1 shed date, but the DWR needs to back off the Jan 31 cow elk hunts. Make it mid Dec.
 
"Has anyone seen any scientific study done that actually shows that increased human pressure in the winter time actually leads to increased deer, elk or moose mortality?"

Here you go hossblur; no.....
 

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