Time to Shift Permits back into Public LE draw

I've been involved with the RAC system for years now and I've seen the money that the auction tags have brought in. That money has enabled the DWR to make great strides in transplants and habitat projects that would have not been possible before. However, with the increasing commercialization of "public" hunting where those with the means can purchase coveted big game tags almost every year and hunt on public units with the use of guides and very often an army of "spotters", the average public hunter is finding him/herself at a distinct disadvantage. The concept of the "kings forest" is slowly invading our public hunting grounds. While its true that the number of auction tags may not be biologically or statistically detrimental to the resource, it no less removes 100's of tags that would normally be available in public LE permit draws. In my opinion its time to scale back this program and at a minimum, put those auction tags back into the LE draw system every other year. Those who can afford to buy the auction tags have numerous opportunities to purchase high quality big game tags from CWMU operations. I know the conservation groups may groan at losing some funding every other year but if their stated purposes for organizing are in fact legit, they will still continue to function and be an important voice in wildlife management. A portion of the money derived from the auction tags is used to pay "salaries" to folks who "manage" the projects that the 90% of the auction tag proceeds are required to go to.
The Expo Tags(200) currently included in the Sportsmans Expo are under contract and I would assume that, barring an extreme emergency involving wildlife populations, could not be distributed back to the general LE draw but they could be when the Expo contract is rebid in a few years. I think as sportsman we need to slow down or stop the high dollar "pay to play" scenario that is slowly eroding public hunting in this state. Everyone of you need to attend the public RAC and WB meetings and voice your opinion and ask for a motion to change the auction tag system. Thanks

Nebo,

I could not agree more and I applaud your efforts. However, be prepared to be flogged publicly for your views as a RAC member and be prepared to be invited to leave the RAC. Anytime the current pay-to-play program is questioned it does not go well. The number of wealth tags available in Utah is a joke IMO and is slowly eroding public trust.

I'd love to see those tags back in the public hands.

I was just thinking of these high dollar tags, but I was thinking along the lines of if they continue to have these tags then it needs to work differently. Right now the DWR is trying to figure out why we continue to loose the younger generations to hunting. I think one of the factors is Money. The Average Joe in Utah cant justify the reason to hunt to feed his family, when it is basically cheaper just to go buy your meat from the store. I would suggest that deer tags, and cow elk tags, doe tags, spike elk tags, etc.. prices be reduced to justify the reason to hunt for game. To offset this price reduction the DWR should increase the voucher prices for the conservation tags, CWMU tags, Landowner tags in LE Units, etc. Basically those that can afford to buy LE tags in utah bypass the waiting periods the general public has to abide by. Therefore they should have to pay more for the luxury of not having to wait the years like the average joe. Just my .02 cents.

I'd love to see some transparency in the sell of our tags, but that's like listening to a used car salesman

Not worried about being flogged. Just my opinion after seeing the direction of where "public hunting" is going. I just believe its time to pull back in regards to high dollar permits and give them back to the "public". I am sure that the big game biologists don't much care in a biological sense whether a hunter paid $30,000 or $160 for the tag. Its just one deer, but in a social aspect I believe we are slowly beginning to erode the traditional hunting that has and hopefully will exist for the forseeable future. When the WB voted to decrease tags in response to harsh winter conitions, were any auction tags eliminated? Right now, the average hunter usually takes the brunt of decreases while those with the financial means are able to still get available permits. I have no problem with that, but some of those cuts should include auction tags.

If you ask for transparency you will be talked to like you don't have the right to know. Much like asking the govt for transparency of their spending habits. But we do have the right to know where the money goes down to the exact penny.

Remember in Die Hard when John Mclane fired the Euro robber out of the Nakatomi Tower on to the Cop Car??

He yelled at the cop "Welcome To The Party Pal"!!!

After more than a decade it's good to finally see a person with influence have a change of heart. Welcome to the party pal!!

Now realize that stealing 5% of the tags for the wealthy and another couple hundred for TWO GROUPS to pimp out is just a result of not waking up 20 years earlier.

In this time of awakening ask yourself why do we in Utah manage for two of the smallest groups in the hunting community? Max Point Holders and the Johns that purchase the Wealth Tags?

Hopefully it wont take another 10 years to get me an answer




"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."

LONETREE 3/15/16

Richard-

Thank you for posting. It is great to see that someone with your experience and relationships finally recognizes that there is a problem. Do you mind me asking what prompted the change in opinion? Although I've always enjoyed my discussions and exchanges with you, in the past you have always been a defender of these welalth tag programs. I would be interested in hearing about the pivot point that led to your change in opinion. Welcome aboard! Now what can we do as sportsmen to actually effectuate some change?


-Hawkeye-

Below is the list of CONSERVATION TAGS in Utah.

Do you think other States have, or need this many, to provide quality hunting?
NOPE!!


Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Little Creek Roadless 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Cache, South 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Mt Dutton 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15
Desert Bighorn Sheep Henry Mtns/La Sal, Potash/South Cisco/San Juan, South & Lockhart/San Rafael, Dirty Devil 1 Combo & Season Variance Sept 16 - Dec 31
Desert Bighorn Sheep Kaiparowits, East/Escalante/West 1 Combo & Season Variance Sept 16 - Dec 31
Desert Bighorn Sheep San Rafael North/South 1 Combo & Season Variance Sept 16 - Dec 31
Desert Bighorn Sheep All open hunt units in the 2017 Big Game Guidebook 1 Statewide Sept 1 - Dec 31
Desert Bighorn Sheep Zion (early) 1 Season Variance Sept 16 - Dec 31
Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep Book Cliffs, South 1 Season Variance Nov 1 - Dec 31
Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep Box Elder, Newfoundland Mtn (early) 1 Season Variance Oct 28 - Dec 31
Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep Nine Mile, Gray Canyon & Jack Creek 1 Combo & Season Variance Nov 1 - Dec 31
Wild Bearded Turkey Southern Region 2 Any open unit April 08 - April 27 & Youth Only April 28 - April 30 & Statewide May 1 - May 31
14
Mule Deer Foundation
www.muledeer.org
Species Area Permits Condition Season Dates
Antlerless Elk Cache 3 Combo Any open hunts listed in the 2017 Antlerless Hunt Tables that include Cache in the unit name
Antlerless Elk Central Mtns, Manti 1 Combo Any open hunts listed in the 2017 Antlerless Hunt Tables that include Central Mtns, Manti in the name
Antlerless Elk South Slope 2 Combo Any open hunts listed in the 2017 Antlerless Hunt Tables that include South Slope in the unit name
Black Bear Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South 1 Multi-season/Orientation Required Spring April 1 - June 2, Summer June 3 - June 30, Fall (Arch) Aug. 7 - Sep. 8, & (ALW) Oct. 2 - Nov. 16
Black Bear Wasatch Mtns, West 1 Multi-season/Orientation Required Summer June 3- June 30, Fall Aug. 19 - Sep. 25, & Oct. 28 - Nov. 16
Buck Deer Antelope Island 1 Nov 13 - Nov 30
Buck Deer Book Cliffs 2 Choice of season ALW: Oct 21 - Oct 29, 2017 or Arch: Aug 19 - Sept 15, 2017 or Muzz: Sept 27 - Oct 05, 2017
Buck Deer Fillmore, Oak Creek LE 1 Choice of season ALW: Oct 21 - Oct 29, 2017 or Arch: Aug 19 - Sept 15, 2017 or Muzz: Sept 27 - Oct 05, 2017
Buck Deer Henry Mtns 1 Choice of season ALW: Oct 21 - Oct 29, 2017 or Arch: Aug 19 - Sept 15, 2017 or Muzz: Sept 27 - Oct 05, 2017
Buck Deer Henry Mtns 1 Muzzleloader Sept 27 ? Oct 5
Buck Deer La Sal, Dolores Triangle 1 Choice of season ALW: Nov 18 - Nov 26, 2017 or Arch: Nov 4 - Nov 17, 2017 or Muzz: Nov 29 - Dec 7, 2017
Buck Deer Paunsaugunt 1 Any Legal Weapon Oct 21 - Oct 29
Buck Deer Paunsaugunt 1 Archery Aug 19 - Sept 15
Buck Deer Paunsaugunt 2 Choice of season ALW: Oct 21 - Oct 29, 2017 or Arch: Aug 19 - Sept 15, 2017 or Muzz: Sept 27 - Oct 05, 2017
Buck Deer Paunsaugunt 1 Muzzleloader Sept 27 ? Oct 5
Buck Deer San Juan, Elk Ridge 1 Choice of season ALW: Oct 21 - Oct 29, 2017 or Arch: Aug 19 - Sept 15, 2017 or Muzz: Sept 27 - Oct 05, 2017
1 of 8
Buck Deer South Slope, Diamond Mtn 1 Any Legal Weapon Oct 21 ? Oct 29
Buck Deer South Slope, Diamond Mtn 1 Choice of season ALW: Oct 21 - Oct 29, 2017 or Arch: Aug 19 - Sept 15, 2017 or Muzz: Sept 27 - Oct 05, 2017
Buck Deer South Slope, Diamond Mtn 1 Muzzleloader Sept 27 ? Oct 5
Buck Deer Any open hunt units excluding Antelope Island in the 2017 Guidebook 1 Statewide Arch Aug 19 - Aug 31 & Any Legal Weapon Sept 1, 2017 - Jan 15, 2018
Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon 1 Any Legal Weapon Oct 21 ? Oct 29
Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15
Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon 1 Choice of season ALW: Oct 21 - Oct 29, 2017 or Arch: Aug 19 - Sept 15, 2017 or Muzz: Sept 27 - Oct 05, 2017
Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon 1 Muzzleloader Sept 27 ? Oct 5
Bull Elk Beaver, East 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Cache, Meadowville 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Cache, North 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Cache, South 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Cache, South 2 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Oct 7 - Oct 19 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Oct 7 - Oct 19, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti 1 Muzzleloader Sept 25 ? Oct 6
Bull Elk Central Mtns, Nebo 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15
Bull Elk Fillmore, Pahvant 2 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Fillmore, Pahvant 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Monroe 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk North Slope, Three Corners 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Oct 7 - Oct 19, Muzz Nov 1 - Nov 9
Bull Elk Oquirrh-Stansbury 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Panguitch Lake 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Oct 7 - Oct 19 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15
Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes 1 Muzzleloader Sept 25 ? Oct 6
Bull Elk San Juan Bull Elk 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk San Juan Bull Elk 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk South Slope, Diamond Mtn 2 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Oct 7 - Oct 19
Bull Elk Southwest Desert 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Oct 7 - Oct 19, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Cougar Central Mtns, Manti 1 Limited Entry/Split Combo Any open unit in the Central Mtns, Manti Area during the 2017-2018 season
Cougar Statewide 1 Any open unit Any open unit throughout the State during the 2017-2018 season
Mountain Goat Beaver (early) 1 Sept 9 - Sept 24
Mountain Goat Ogden, Willard Peak (late) 1 Sept 25 - Nov 15
2 of 8
Mountain Goat Statewide 1 Any open unit Arch Aug 19 - Aug 31 on North Slope/South Slope, High Uintas Central, Hunt # GO6815, ALW Sept 1 - Dec 31, 2016
Pronghorn Cache/Morgan-South Rich/Ogden 2 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Rocky Mtn Bighorn Sheep Antelope Island 1 Nov 13 - Nov 30
65
National Wild Turkey Federation
www.nwtf.org
Species Area Permits Condition Season Dates
Black Bear La Sal 1 Multi-season/Orientation Required Spring April 1 - June 2, Summer June 3 - June 30, Fall Aug. 12 - Sep. 25, & Oct. 28 - Nov. 16, (Spot & Stalk) Oct. 3 - Oct. 24
Black Bear South Slope, Yellowstone 1 Multi-season/Orientation Required Summer June 3- June 30, Fall Aug. 19 - Sep. 25, & Oct. 28 - Nov. 16, Harvest Objective until closed April 1 - June 2 (no bait)
Buck Deer Book Cliffs 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15
Buck Deer Book Cliffs (North and South) 1 Any Legal Weapon Combo Oct 21 - Oct 29
Buck Deer South Slope, Diamond Mtn 1 Choice of season ALW: Oct 21 - Oct 29, 2017 or Arch: Aug 19 - Sept 15, 2017 or Muzz: Sept 27 - Oct 05, 2017
Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon 1 Choice of season ALW: Oct 21 - Oct 29, 2017 or Arch: Aug 19 - Sept 15, 2017 or Muzz: Sept 27 - Oct 05, 2017
Bull Elk Beaver, East 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Mt Dutton 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Panguitch Lake 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Oct 7 - Oct 19 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Cougar Chalk Creek/Kamas, East Canyon, and Morgan-South Rich 1 Limited Entry Combo Any open unit in the Chalk Creek/Kamas, East Canyon, and Morgan-South RichArea during the 2017-2018 season
Cougar Wasatch Mtns, Currant Creek North and Wasatch Mtns,West-Strawberry 1 Limited Entry Combo Any open unit in the Wasatch Mtns, Currant Creek and Wasatch Mtns,West Area during the 2017-2018 season
Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region 5 Any open unit April 08 - April 27 & Youth Only April 28 - April 30 & Statewide May 1 - May 31
Wild Bearded Turkey Northeastern Region 2 Any open unit April 08 - April 27 & Youth Only April 28 - April 30 & Statewide May 1 - May 31
Wild Bearded Turkey Southeastern Region 1 Any open unit April 08 - April 27 & Youth Only April 28 - April 30 & Statewide May 1 - May 31
Wild Bearded Turkey Southern Region 4 Any open unit April 08 - April 27 & Youth Only April 28 - April 30 & Statewide May 1 - May 31
Wild Bearded Turkey All open hunts listed in the 2016-2017 Guidebook 1 Statewide April 1 - May 31
26
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
www.rmef.org
Species Area Permits Condition Season Dates
Antlerless Elk Cache 1 Combo Any open hunts listed in the 2017 Antlerless Hunt Tables that include Cache in the unit name
Antlerless Elk Central Mtns, Manti 1 Combo Any open hunts listed in the 2017 Antlerless Hunt Tables that include Central Mtns, Manti in the name
Antlerless Elk Plateau 2 Combo Any open hunts listed in the 2017 Antlerless Hunt Tables that include Plateau in the unit name
Antlerless Elk South Slope 1 Combo Any open hunts listed in the 2017 Antlerless Hunt Tables that include South Slope in the unit name
Black Bear Beaver 1 Multi-season/Orientation Required Spring April 1 - June 2, Summer June 3 - June 30, Fall (ALW) Aug. 19 - Sep. 25, & Oct. 28 - Nov. 16
Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South 1 Muzzleloader Sept 25 ? Oct 6
Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Little Creek Roadless 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 - Sept 24
3 of 8
Bull Elk Cache, South 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Cache, South 1 Muzzleloader Sept 25 ? Oct 6
Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Oct 7 - Oct 19 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Central Mtns, Nebo 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Monroe 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Oquirrh-Stansbury 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Paunsaugunt 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Oct 7 - Oct 19 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Oct 7 - Oct 19 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk San Juan Bull Elk 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Southwest Desert 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Southwest Desert 1 Muzzleloader Sept 25 ? Oct 6
Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Oct 7 - Oct 19 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Buck Pronghorn Mt Dutton/Paunsaugunt, Johns Valley 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn Pine Valley 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert 2 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Rush Valley 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Snake Valley 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep Any open units excluding Box Elder Pilot Mtn & Antelope Island but includes the Central Mtns, Nebo/Wasatch, West & Wasatch Mtns, Avintaquin 1 Statewide Sept 1 - Dec 31
Wild Bearded Turkey Southeastern Region 1 Any open unit April 08 - April 27 & Youth Only April 28 - April 30 & Statewide May 1 - May 31
31
Safari Club International
www.safariclubutah.org
Species Area Permits Condition Season Dates
Antlerless Elk Central Mtns, Manti 1 Combo Any open hunts listed in the 2017 Antlerless Hunt Tables that include Central Mtns, Manti in the name
Antlerless Elk South Slope 1 Combo Any open hunts listed in the 2017 Antlerless Hunt Tables that include South Slope in the unit name
Black Bear Central Mtns, Nebo 1 Multi-season/Orientation Required Spring April 1 - June 2, Summer June 3 - June 30, Fall Aug. 19 - Sep. 25, & Oct. 28 - Nov. 16
Black Bear Panguitch Lake/Zion 1 Multi-season/Orientation Required Spring April 1 - June 2, Summer June 3 - June 30, Fall Aug. 19 - Sep. 25, & Oct. 28 - Nov. 16
Bison Henry Mtns, Hunter's Choice (late) 1 Nov 18 - Nov 30
Buck Deer Book Cliffs 1 Muzzleloader Sept 27 ? Oct 5
Buck Deer Book Cliffs (North and South) 1 Any Legal Weapon Combo Oct 21 - Oct 29
Buck Deer Fillmore, Oak Creek LE 1 Choice of season ALW: Oct 21 - Oct 29, 2017 or Arch: Aug 19 - Sept 15, 2017 or Muzz: Sept 27 - Oct 05, 2017
Buck Deer Paunsaugunt 1 Any Legal Weapon Oct 21 - Oct 29
Buck Deer San Juan, Elk Ridge 1 Muzzleloader Sept 27 ? Oct 5
Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Oct 7 - Oct 19 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
4 of 8
Bull Elk Mt Dutton 1 Muzzleloader Sept 25 ? Oct 6
Bull Elk Southwest Desert 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Oct 7 - Oct 19 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Cougar Central Mtns, Manti 1 Limited Entry/Split Combo Any open unit in the Central Mtns, Manti Area during the 2017-2018 season
Cougar Plateau, Boulder 1 Split Any open unit in the Plateau, Boulder Area during the 2017-2018 season
Buck Pronghorn Fillmore, Oak Creek 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn Pine Valley 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn Plateau, Parker Mtn 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Riverbed 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region 1 Any open unit April 08 - April 27 & Youth Only April 28 - April 30 & Statewide May 1 - May 31
Wild Bearded Turkey Northeastern Region 1 Any open unit April 08 - April 27 & Youth Only April 28 - April 30 & Statewide May 1 - May 31
Wild Bearded Turkey Southern Region 1 Any open unit April 08 - April 27 & Youth Only April 28 - April 30 & Statewide May 1 - May 31
24
Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife
www.sfw.org
Species Area Permits Condition Season Dates
Antlerless Elk La Sal 4 Combo Any open hunts listed in the 2017 Antlerless Hunt Tables that include La Sal in the unit name
Antlerless Elk Plateau 2 Combo Any open hunts listed in the 2017 Antlerless Hunt Tables that include Plateau in the unit name
Black Bear Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South 2 Multi-season/Orientation Required Spring April 1 - June 2, Summer June 3 - June 30, Fall (Arch) Aug. 7 - Sep. 8, & (ALW) Oct. 2 - Nov. 16
Black Bear Book Cliffs, Little Creek Roadless 1 Multi-season/Orientation Required Spring (Spot & Stalk) April 1 - June 2, Summer June 3 - June 30, Fall (Arch) Aug. 7 - Sep. 8, & (Spot & Stalk) Sep. 9 - Nov. 16
Black Bear Central Mtns, Manti-North 2 Multi-season/Orientation Required Spring April 1 - June 2, Summer June 3 - June 30, Fall Aug. 19 - Sep. 25, & Oct. 28 - Nov. 16
Black Bear Central Mtns, Manti-South/San Rafael, North 1 Multi-season/Orientation Required Spring April 1 - June 2, Summer June 3 - June 30, Fall Aug. 19 - Sep. 25, & Oct. 28 - Nov. 16
Black Bear Chalk Creek/Kamas/North Slope, Summit 1 Multi-season/Orientation Required Spring April 1 - June 2, Summer June 3 - June 30, Fall Aug. 19 - Sep. 25, & Oct. 28 - Nov. 16
Black Bear La Sal 3 Multi-season/Orientation Required Spring April 1 - June 2, Summer June 3 - June 30, Fall Aug. 12 - Sep. 25, & Oct. 28 - Nov. 16, (Spot & Stalk) Oct. 3 - Oct. 24
Black Bear Nine Mile 1 Multi-season/Orientation Required Summer June 3- June 30, Fall Aug. 19 - Sep. 25, & Oct. 28 - Nov. 16, Harvest Objective until closed April 1 - June 2 (no bait) & Sep 26 - Oct 27 (no dogs & no bait)
Black Bear Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits 1 Multi-season/Orientation Required Spring April 1 - June 2, Summer June 3 - June 30, Fall Aug. 19 - Sep. 25, & Oct. 28 - Nov. 16
Black Bear San Juan 4 Multi-season/Orientation Required Spring April 1 - June 2, Summer June 3 - June 30, Fall Aug. 12 - Sep. 26 & Oct. 28 - Nov. 16 (Spot & Stalk) Oct. 3 - Oct. 24
Black Bear South Slope, Bonanza/Diamond Mtn/Vernal 2 Multi-season/Orientation Required Spring April 1 - June 2, Summer June 3 - June 30, Fall Aug. 19 - Sep. 25, & Oct. 28 - Nov. 16
Black Bear Any open hunt unit during the season listed in the 2017 Guidebook 1 Statewide/Orientation Required Any open unit during the 2017 season
Black Bear Wasatch Mtns, West 1 Multi-season/Orientation Required Summer June 3- June 30, Fall Aug. 19 - Sep. 25, & Oct. 28 - Nov. 16
Bison Book Cliffs, Wild Horse Bench/Nine Mile (Hunter's Choice) 1 Aug 1, 2017 - Jan 31, 2018
Bison Henry Mtns, Hunter's Choice (early) 1 Nov 4 ? Nov 16
Bison Any open hunt units excluding Antelope Island in the 2017 Guidebook 1 Statewide Sept 1 - Dec 31
Buck Deer Book Cliffs 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15
Buck Deer Book Cliffs 1 Muzzleloader Sept 27 ? Oct 5
Buck Deer Cache, Crawford Mtn 1 Muzzleloader Nov 18 ? Dec. 3
Buck Deer Henry Mtns 1 Choice of season ALW: Oct 21 - Oct 29, 2017 or Arch: Aug 19 - Sept 15, 2017 or Muzz: Sept 27 - Oct 05, 2017
5 of 8
Buck Deer North Slope, Summit 6 Any Legal Weapon Oct 7 ? Oct 19
Buck Deer Paunsaugunt 1 Muzzleloader Sept 27 ? Oct 5
Buck Deer San Juan, Elk Ridge 1 Choice of season ALW: Oct 21 - Oct 29, 2017 or Arch: Aug 19 - Sept 15, 2017 or Muzz: Sept 27 - Oct 05, 2017
Buck Deer South Slope, Diamond Mtn 1 Any Legal Weapon Oct 21 ? Oct 29
Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon 1 Any Legal Weapon Oct 21 ? Oct 29
Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15
Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon 1 Muzzleloader Sept 27 ? Oct 5
Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South 2 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Box Elder, Grouse Creek 1 Multi-season ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Oct 7 - Oct 29 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Cache, Meadowville 2 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Cache, Meadowville 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15
Bull Elk Cache, North 2 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Cache, South 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Cache, South 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15
Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Oct 7 - Oct 19 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Oct 7 - Oct 19, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Central Mtns, Nebo 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Central Mtns, Nebo 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns 1 Muzzleloader Sept 25 ? Oct 6
Bull Elk Mt Dutton 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Mt Dutton 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Nine Mile, Anthro 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk North Slope, Three Corners 1 Any Legal Weapon Oct 7 ? Oct 19
Bull Elk Panguitch Lake 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Panguitch Lake 1 Muzzleloader Sept 25 ? Oct 6
Bull Elk Paunsaugunt 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Oct 7 - Oct 19 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Paunsaugunt 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15
Bull Elk Paunsaugunt 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Oct 7 - Oct 19, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15
Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes 2 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Oct 7 - Oct 19 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes 2 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Oct 7 - Oct 19, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk South Slope, Diamond Mtn 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Oct 7 - Oct 19, Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Southwest Desert 2 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Southwest Desert 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
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Bull Elk Any open hunt units listed in the 2017 Guidebook 1 Statewide Arch Aug 19 - Aug 31 Any Legal Weapon Sept 1, 2017 - Jan 15, 2018
Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Oct 7 - Oct 19 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15
Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Oct 7 - Oct 19, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns 1 Muzzleloader Sept 25 ? Oct 6
Bull Elk West Desert, Deep Creek 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24 or Oct 7 - Oct 19 or Nov 11 - Nov 19
Bull Elk West Desert, Deep Creek 1 Multi-season Arch Aug 19 - Sept 15 ALW Sept 16 - Sept 24, Oct 7 - Oct 19, Nov 11 - Nov 19 Muzz Sept 25 - Oct 6
Bull Moose Statewide 1 Any open unit Sept 1 - Nov 15
Bull Moose Wasatch Mountains/Central Mtns 2 Sept 16 - Oct 19
Cougar Box Elder, Desert and Box Elder, Raft River 1 Split Combo Any open unit in the Box Elder, Desert and Box Elder, Raft River Area during the 2017-2018 season.
Cougar Central Mtns, Nebo and Central Mtns, Nebo-West Face 1 Split Combo Any open unit in the Central Mtns, Nebo and Central Mtns, Nebo-West Face Area during the 2017-2018 season.
Cougar Mt Dutton 1 Split Any open unit in the Mt Dutton Area during the 2017-2018 season.
Cougar Oquirrh-Stansbury and West Desert, Tintic-Vernon 1 Limited Entry/Split Combo Any open unit in the Oquirrh-Stansbury and West Desert, Tintic-Vernon Area during the 2017-2018 season.
Cougar Plateau, Fishlake 1 Split Any open unit in the Plateau, Fishlake Area during the 2017-2018 season.
Desert Bighorn Sheep Zion (late) 1 Season Variance Oct 14 ? Dec 31
Mountain Goat North Slope/South Slope, High Uintas Central 1 Sept 11 ? Oct 31
Mountain Goat North Slope/South Slope, High Uintas West 1 Sept 11 ? Oct 31
Mountain Goat Ogden, Willard Peak (early) 1 Sept 11 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn Beaver 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn Book Cliffs, South 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn Box Elder, Puddle Valley 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn Cache/Morgan-South Rich/Ogden 3 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn Mt Dutton/Paunsaugunt, John's Valley 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn Nine Mile, Anthro-Myton Bench 2 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn North Slope, Three Corners/West Daggett 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn Plateau, Parker Mtn 7 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, North 2 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn South Slope, Bonanza/Diamond Mtn 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn South Slope, Vernal 1 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert 3 Any Legal Weapon Sept 16 ? Sept 24
Buck Pronghorn Any open hunt unit listed in the 2017 Guidebook 1 Statewide Arch Aug 19 - Aug 31 Any Legal Weapon Sept 1 - Nov 15
Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep Nine Mile, Gray Canyon & Jack Creek 1 Combo & Season Variance Nov 1 - Dec 31
Wild Bearded Turkey Central Region 1 Any open unit April 08 - April 27 & Youth Only April 28 - April 30 & Statewide May 1 - May 31
Wild Bearded Turkey Northeastern Region 5 Any open unit April 08 - April 27 & Youth Only April 28 - April 30 & Statewide May 1 - May 31
Wild Bearded Turkey Northern Region 8 Any open unit April 08 - April 27 & Youth Only April 28 - April 30 & Statewide May 1 - May 31
Wild Bearded Turkey Southeastern Region 6 Any open unit April 08 - April 27 & Youth Only April 28 - April 30 & Statewide May 1 - May 31
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Utah Bowmen for Habitat
http://utahbowmen.org
Species Area Permits Condition Season Dates
Black Bear Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits 1 Multi-season/Orientation Required Spring April 1 - June 2, Summer June 3 - June 30, Fall Aug. 19 - Sep. 25, & Oct. 28 - Nov. 16
Black Bear Wasatch Mtns, Avintaquin/Currant Creek 1 Multi-season/Orientation Required Summer June 3- June 30, Fall Aug. 19 - Sep. 25, & Oct. 28 - Nov. 16, Harvest Objective until closed April 1 - June 2 (no bait)
Bison Henry Mtns, Cow Only (early) 1 Dec 2 - Dec 15
Buck Deer Paunsaugunt 1 Archery Aug 19 - Sept 15
Buck Deer South Slope, Diamond Mtn 1 Archery Aug 19 - Sept 15
Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15
Bull Elk Central Mtns, Manti 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15
Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mtns 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15
Bull Elk Panguitch Lake 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15
Bull Elk South Slope, Diamond Mtn 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15
Bull Elk Southwest Desert 1 Archery Aug 19 ? Sept 15

BARRY WOOD SOUTH WEBER, UT
TRAVIS RENZELLO MONA, UT
SHAWN NORDHOFF RIVERTON, UT
JESSE TATMAN MANILA, UT
SUZI KING EAGLE MOUNTAIN, UT
DARIN THOMAS ROOSEVELT, UT
DALE RASMUSSEN FARR WEST, UT
MARK GOODRICH BOUNTIFUL, UT
JON WALKER WEST BOUNTIFUL, UT
Buck Deer ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon ? Book Cliffs, South ? Permits: 4
Name City, State
TODD CARLTON LEHI, UT
TRAVIS ANDERTON SOUTH JORDAN, UT
KAMALEE PAUL PAYSON, UT
WENDY CARTER NORTH SALT LAKE, UT
Buck Deer ? Limited Entry ? Archery ? Book Cliffs ? Permits: 4
Name City, State
COREY ELDREDGE VERNAL, UT
JESSICA HORTMAN SANTAQUIN, UT
MIKE WHITE VERNAL, UT
KENADEE ALLRED VERNAL, UT
Buck Deer ? Limited Entry ? Muzzleloader ? Book Cliffs ? Permits: 4
Name City, State
BRYCE BISHOP AMERICAN FORK, UT
SHANE JOHNSON SALT LAKE CITY, UT
COLTON PEART LINDON, UT
CORY ANDERSON MAGNA, UT
Buck Deer ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon ? Fillmore, Oakcreek LE ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
BRANDON CHRISTENSEN SARATOGA SPRINGS, UT
Buck Deer ? Premium Limited Entry ? Premium Any Weapon ? Henry Mtns ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
LESLIE BROWN SR ROOSEVELT, UT
Buck Deer ? Premium Limited Entry ? Management Buck ? Henry Mtns ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
MICHAEL MONSON HOOPER, UT
PAUL DONALDSON HAMILTON, MT
Buck Deer ? Premium Limited Entry ? Premium Any Weapon ? Paunsaugunt ? Permits: 3
Name City, State
JOHN JOHNSON GRANTSVILLE, UT
MICHAEL CONOLLY SOUTH OGDEN, UT
BENJAMIN EWELL TOQUERVILLE, UT
Buck Deer ? Premium Limited Entry ? Premium Archery ? Paunsaugunt ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
GORDON TATTERSALL RIVERTON, UT
CHEVY HASTINGS SPANISH FORK, UT
Buck Deer ? Premium Limited Entry ? Premium Muzzleloader ? Paunsaugunt ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
SAMANTHA ALEXANDER SANTAQUIN, UT
Buck Deer ? Premium Limited Entry ? Management Buck ? Paunsaugunt ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
HEATH JOLLEY PAYSON, UT
Buck Deer ? Premium Limited Entry ? Any Weapon ? San Juan, Elk Ridge ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
DAVID MEYER THAYNE, UT
Buck Deer ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon ? South Slope, Diamond Mtn ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
SHAINA WARNER BLACKFOOT, ID
Buck Deer ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon ? West Desert, Vernon ? Permits: 5
Name City, State
RAY WEBER JR LAKE POINT, UT
JARED PEAY SPANISH FORK, UT
LYNN SEELY VERNAL, UT
DAVE BURGET POCATELLO, ID
COLBY CEDARSTROM EAGLE MOUNTAIN, UT
Buck Deer ? Limited Entry ? Archery ? West Desert, Vernon ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
JACE M RUST ROOSEVELT, UT
RYAN THON ROY, UT
Buck Deer ? Limited Entry ? Muzzleloader ? West Desert, Vernon ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
ADAM HADLOCK ROOSEVELT, UT
ORLANDO LANGFORD WEST JORDAN, UT
Buck Deer ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon ? North Slope, Summit ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
JAMIE BRAYER BRENTWOOD , CA
DAVE LOUGHTON MOUNTAIN GREEN, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (early) ? Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
JUSTIN HAWKINS GRANTSVILLE, UT
DAVID SORENSON AMERICAN FORK, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (late) ? Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
JOE VIA JR HELPER, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Archery ? Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
CHAZ ROWSER MORGAN, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Muzzleloader ? Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
GREG PUFFE NAMPA, ID
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon ? Book Cliffs, Little Creek, Roadless ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
MICHAEL ROHRER ROOSEVELT, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (early) ? Cache, Meadowville ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
JAKE WOOLSTENHULME OAKLEY, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (early) ? Cache, South ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
CAROLINE BOWER NAMPA, ID
DAVID HAWKINS SPANISH FORK, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (late) ? Cache, South ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
JERRY HISLOP VERNAL, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Archery ? Cache, South ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
WILLIAM SCHMIDT WESTMINSTER, CO
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Muzzleloader ? Cache, South ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
BOYD RIDING MIDVALE, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (early) ? Central Mtns, Manti ? Permits: 7
Name City, State
JUSTIN QUIGLEY SANDY, UT
D SCOTT BUTLER WEST JORDAN, UT
TRAVIS FOWERS WEST HAVEN, UT
MICHAEL HAGBERG SAN TAN VALLEY, AZ
JIM KEECH WEST JORDAN, UT
CHRISTOPHER PAULSON ALPINE, UT
JACK BEUNING KAYSVILLE, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (late) ? Central Mtns, Manti ? Permits: 4
Name City, State
NICKOLAS BIRCH HEBER CITY, UT
JOSHUA LUKE OREM, UT
DUSTEN JONES HERRIMAN, UT
LANCE KING LAYTON, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Archery ? Central Mtns, Manti ? Permits: 6
Name City, State
TERRILL KARCICH HELPER, UT
DONALD CHRISTENSEN EUREKA, UT
MARK NIELSEN MURRAY, UT
JENNY TAYLOR DRAPER, UT
LYNN TUTTLE ORANGEVILLE, UT
PAUL ELLIS PILOT ROCK, OR
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Muzzleloader ? Central Mtns, Manti ? Permits: 3
Name City, State
JAMES BAILEY PRICE, UT
CARSON BRACKEN SPRINGVILLE, UT
DARWIN JENSEN LEHI, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Archery ? Central Mtns, Nebo ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
JASON BAKER SOUTH JORDAN, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (early) ? Central Mtns, Nebo ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
NATHAN MOELLER HIGHLAND, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (late) ? Fillmore, Pahvant ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
RANDALL FEHR CLINTON, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (early) ? La Sal, La Sal Mtns ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
ELIJAH HENAGER WINDSOR, CO
MICHAEL HALL SOUTH OGDEN, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (late) ? La Sal, La Sal Mtns ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
CHARLES NIELSON OGDEN, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Archery ? La Sal, La Sal Mtns ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
TRAVIS GATES STANSBURY PARK, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (early) ? Mt Dutton ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
DENNIS THOMAS JR WEST JORDAN, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (late) ? Mt Dutton ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
ANDREW SLOPER OGDEN, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Archery ? Mt Dutton ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
MONTY FORSTER ROOSEVELT, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (early) ? Panguitch Lake ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
DAVE JOHNSON LINDON, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (late) ? Panguitch Lake ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
NATHAN PELLONI MEEKER, CO
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Archery ? Panguitch Lake ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
CLIFFORD DEWELL IGO, CA
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (early) ? Paunsaugunt ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
KELLY MALLOY DRAPER, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (early) ? Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
KENT BANGERTER JR RIVERTON, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Archery ? Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
GINGER EVANS CEDAR CITY, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (early) ? Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes ? Permits: 3
Name City, State
GLEN WHITED SNOWFLAKE, AZ
SHELTON HEATH AMERICAN FORK, UT
RICHARD JOHNSON LEHI, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (late) ? Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
KELLIE BANKS SANDY, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Archery ? Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
SAM FITZGERALD RIVERTON, UT
CHASE BURNS GREAT FALLS, MT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Muzzleloader ? Plateau, Fishlake/Thousand Lakes ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
NEVIN JENSEN CLEVELAND, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (early) ? Southwest Desert ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
HEIDEE LATHAM LAPOINT, UT
ERIC HEATH SAINT GEORGE, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (late) ? Southwest Desert ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
BRYON BODELL SOUTH JORDAN, UT
ROBERT JACKSON CEDAR CITY, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Archery ? Southwest Desert ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
JUSTIN WAHLBERG EUREKA, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Muzzleloader ? Southwest Desert ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
AYDEN SORENSEN PARK CITY, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (early) ? San Juan Bull Elk ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
DUKE WHEELER SILT, CO
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Archery ? San Juan Bull Elk ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
LANCE HUNT SAINT GEORGE, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (early) ? South Slope, Diamond Mtn ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
BRIAN PARNELL PALO CEDRO, CA
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (early) ? Wasatch Mtns ? Permits: 8
Name City, State
ERIKA SNOW CHINO VALLEY, AZ
STEPHEN SMITH WEST JORDAN, UT
KAREN MIKESELL TOOELE, UT
JORDAN JACOBSON MONA, UT
SHAUNA KEEL ROOSEVELT, UT
BLAKE HARROP HOOPER, UT
RHETT MAXWELL BLUFFDALE, UT
MICHAEL OKI WILLARD, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon (late) ? Wasatch Mtns ? Permits: 4
Name City, State
GEORGE MCGRATH RIVERTON, UT
JEREMIAH GOULD HARRISVILLE, UT
ROBERT ALLRED SYRACUSE, UT
CARSON TISCHNER WEST JORDAN, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Archery ? Wasatch Mtns ? Permits: 9
Name City, State
TYLER SEARLE AMERICAN FORK, UT
CHRIS HARTLEY WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
BRYAN TOOLE MIDVALE, UT
JEFFREY AVERETT SPRINGVILLE, UT
JASON HUISH SPANISH FORK, UT
JUSTIN JONES PEOA, UT
RYAN SHANAFELT HOOPER, UT
KILEY CROCKETT LAYTON, UT
BRANDON ARMSTRONG WASHINGTON, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Muzzleloader ? Wasatch Mtns ? Permits: 5
Name City, State
RANDY HOPP NEWBERG, OR
SHAWN WILSON PLAIN CITY, UT
LAURIE REED ROOSEVELT, UT
MICHAEL GILBERT SYRACUSE, UT
WADE BASS CORINNE, UT
Bull Elk ? Limited Entry ? Multi-Season ? Wasatch Mtns ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
TYLER DANGERFIELD SOUTH OGDEN, UT
Pronghorn ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon ? Book Cliffs, South ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
JOSH KELSHAW PROVO, UT
Pronghorn ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon ? Cache/Morgan-South Rich/Ogden ? Permits: 4
Name City, State
JAXON LISH TREMONTON, UT
ROBERT WILCOCK SPRINGVILLE, UT
STEVEN GARCIA SAINT GEORGE, UT
KEVIN HOWARD HYRUM, UT
Pronghorn ? Limited Entry ? Archery ? Cache/Morgan-South Rich/Ogden ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
JAY HICKMAN MAGNA, UT
Pronghorn ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon ? Mt Dutton/Paunsaugunt, Johns Valley ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
SCOTT BANASKY SPRINGVILLE, UT
Pronghorn ? Limited Entry ? Archery ? Plateau, Parker Mtn ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
KADE STRATTON SAINT GEORGE, UT
CLINT VISSER WEST POINT, UT
Pronghorn ? Limited Entry ? Muzzleloader ? Plateau, Parker Mtn ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
CHRISTOPHER PAULSON ALPINE, UT
JACE GUYMON CLEVELAND, UT
Pronghorn ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon ? Plateau, Parker Mtn ? Permits: 5
Name City, State
CHAD BAXTER RIVERTON, UT
JOHN GODWIN WEST JORDAN, UT
HEIDEE LATHAM LAPOINT, UT
PEYTON BAGLEY ANNABELLA, UT
DWAYNE TIFFANY VERNAL, UT
Pronghorn ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon ? Pine Valley ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
COLE HILTON RIVERTON, UT
Pronghorn ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon ? San Rafael, North ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
CASSIDY CHRISTENSEN OGDEN, UT
Pronghorn ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon ? West Desert, Riverbed ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
COLTER DAVIS ELSINORE, UT
Pronghorn ? Limited Entry ? Any Weapon ? Southwest Desert ? Permits: 3
Name City, State
BRADEN BLISS DELTA, UT
CODY CARR PLAINS, MT
ERIC LOTT MORGAN, UT
Bull Moose ? Once-in-a-lifetime ? ? Wasatch Mtns/Central Mtns ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
TERRY HERNDON WITTMANN, AZ
Bull Moose (Non-Resident Only) ? Once-in-a-lifetime ? ? Wasatch Mtns/Central Mtns (non-resident only) ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
KATHY SIMPSON SISTERS, OR
Bison ? Once-in-a-lifetime ? ? Henry Mtns ? Hunters Choice (early) ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
JEDEDIAH MAAG SALEM, UT
Bison (Non-Resident Only) ? Once-in-a-lifetime ? ? Henry Mtns ? Hunters Choice (late) (non-resident only) ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
ALLAN IVY GUNNISON, CO
Bison ? Once-in-a-lifetime ? ? Henry Mtns ? Cow Only (early) ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
RICHARD ROLLINS MILFORD, UT
Bison ? Once-in-a-lifetime ? ? Henry Mtns ? Cow Only (late) ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
TONY EMERINE SPANISH FORK, UT
Black Bear ? Limited Entry ? Summer, Any Legal Weapon, No Dogs ? Wasatch Mtns, West ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
CHRISTOPHER MORSE WVC, UT
KURT LAWSON ST. GEORGE, UT
Black Bear ? Limited Entry ? Spring, Any Legal Weapon, No Bait ? La Sal ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
MCCALL MASON SANTAQUIN, UT
CALEB NELSON VERNAL, UT
Black Bear ? Limited Entry ? Fall, Any Legal Weapon ? Nine Mile ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
KEVIN LANGLOIS ALLENDALE, MI
Black Bear ? Limited Entry ? Fall, Any Legal Weapon ? Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowitz ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
RYAN MAXWELL RIVERTON, UT
Black Bear ? Limited Entry ? Spring, Any Legal Weapon, No Bait ? Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek/South ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
MATTHEW NORDHOFF DRAPER, UT
Black Bear ? Limited Entry ? Spring, Any Legal Weapon, No Bait ? S. Slope Bonanza/Diamond Mtn/Vernal ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
RICKANNE PUMMELL VERNAL, UT
Black Bear ? Limited Entry ? Spring, Any Legal Weapon, No Bait ? Central Mtns, Manti-North ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
JOSEPH SWANK WELLINGTON, UT
Black Bear ? Limited Entry ? Spring, Any Legal Weapon, No Bait ? San Juan ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
JOHN GOBLE GUNNISON, UT
YAIGER BETTS BALLARD, UT
Cougar ? Limited Entry ? Split, Limited Entry/Harvest Objective ? Plateau, Boulder ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
WILLIAM LOY PROVO, UT
Cougar ? Limited Entry ? Split, Limited Entry/Harvest Objective ? Plateau, Fishlake ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
HEIDEE LATHAM LAPOINT, UT
Cougar ? Limited Entry ? Split, Limited Entry/Harvest Objective ? Central Mtns, Nebo ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
KOREY WHITAKER MORGAN, UT
Cougar ? Limited Entry ? Split, Limited Entry/Harvest Objective ? Central Mtns, Northeast Manti ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
CHAD RICHARDSON HEBER CITY, UT
Cougar ? Limited Entry ? Limited Entry ? Chalk Creek/Kamas ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
COLE SHAFER PLAIN CITY, UT
Cougar ? Limited Entry ? Split, Limited Entry/Harvest Objective ? Panguitch lake ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
RON WHITING HERRIMAN, UT
Cougar ? Limited Entry ? Split, Limited Entry/Harvest Objective ? Fillmore, Pahvant ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
LONNE RASMUSSEN WEST HAVEN, UT
Desert Bighorn Sheep (Non-Resident Only) ? Once-in-a-lifetime ? Early Season ? Zion (early) (non-resident only) ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
RAYMOND GLESS MESA, AZ
Desert Bighorn Sheep ? Once-in-a-lifetime ? ? Kaiparowits, West ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
YATES PREVEDEL ROY, UT
Rocky Mtn. Bighorn Sheep ? Once-in-a-lifetime ? Any Weapon (early) ? Box Elder, Newfoundland Mtn ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
STEPHEN CHRISTENSEN LEAMINGTON, UT
Rocky Mtn. Bighorn Sheep (Non-Resident Only) ? Once-in-a-lifetime ? (early season) ? Nine Mile, Gray Canyon & Jack Creek (non-resident only) ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
JAMES DAVIS MERIDIAN, ID
Mountain Goat ? Once-in-a-lifetime ? ? No. Slope/So. Slope, High Uintas West ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
DYLAN GOLIGHTLY LOGAN, UT
KENT FRANCIS CEDAR CITY, UT
Mountain Goat (Non-Resident Only) ? Once-in-a-lifetime ? ? Ogden, Willard Peak (early) (non-resident only) ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
DUSTIN MOSES ROCK SPRINGS, WY
Mountain Goat ? Once-in-a-lifetime ? ? Ogden, Willard Peak (late) ? Permits: 1
Name City, State
CLINT SORENSEN WEST POINT, UT
Turkey ? Public Lands ? ? Northern Region ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
NICHOLAS HUNSAKER FARMINGTON, UT
DEAN WEAVER FARR WEST, UT
Turkey ? Public Lands ? ? Northeastern Region ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
BRADLEY KNIGHT ROOSEVELT, UT
COLE COOMER TAYLORSVILLE, UT
Turkey ? Public Lands ? ? Central Region ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
DAVID GABBITAS PROVO, UT
RANDY BIRCH HEBER CITY, UT
Turkey ? Public Lands ? ? Southern Region ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
GARY CARLTON LEHI, UT
DAVID ZACHERSON DRAPER, UT
Turkey ? Public Lands ? ? Southeastern Region ? Permits: 2
Name City, State
DON BATES SPANISH FORK, UT
RON RADDON DRAPER, UT

Seems like small potato's considering Colorado has around 20,000 deer landowner vouchers available

I believe that much good has come out of the conservation tag auctions. Five more sheep units, habitat work etc. With the number of quality CWMUs for elk and deer, I think its time to start swinging the pendulum back the other way. Many CWMU's have high quality animals on them and those who are so inclined to pay high dollars can get a great tag. I also think that putting in a program that would allow those tags to be put into the LE draw every other year would push us back away from the "kings forest" scenario. I'm confident that you will see more and more CWMU's, which is a good way for landowners to make some money and keep the land in traditional uses instead of selling it off to developers. If that happens the land for hunting is forever gone. It also provides additional opportunity for public hunters to draw a tag and access property that has been closed to them. Private land tags are also available now. I just believe that the more of the public should have more of the available tags. Big money threatens to dictate what will be available to public hunters instead of what I believe hunting should be for all of us that enjoy it. The competition on LE units between LE draw permitees and auction tag permitees can be problematic. Some guides and outfitters have a big advantage in locating and helping someone who was willing to pay $15-$30,000 for an LE tag. Many of us will be fortunate to draw 2-3 LE tags in our lifetime and so our opportunity is quite limited in comparison to someone who is fortunate enough to have money to pay for an auction tag. I don't begrudge them one bit. If I had that kind of money I most likely would do the same. In my opinion we just need to have a better balance.

I've never had a problem with a few conservation tags, but I agree that there are WAY too many. But, it would take a march on the capital with 3,000 sportsmen to get anything to begin moving towards reductions. Those tags are as important to the state as they are to the groups who benefit from them. There are a lot of powerful people who enjoy that money coming into the system who probably aren't too concerned about "average joe" getting to hunt a quality unit. They write it off as "life isn't fair" and money buys one a better position in line in most parts of our lives.

3,000 sportsmen on capital hill for two days and that'll get enough attention to get things headed in the right direction. The question is, is there 3,000 sportsmen who care enough to do it?

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!

The people that purchase a conversation tag are the public too.

Bringing the LE tags back into the draw won't bring more kids into hunting. By the time they draw the tag they're grown up and what are you teaching kids when they think good hunting is based around LE tags?

Putting LE tags into the draw will increase drawn tags by less than one percent and cost your state millions.

Truthfully who gets the tags won't solve the obstacles the wildlife is facing in your state. Fix that first then go back to arguing over who gets to shoot.

LAST EDITED ON May-31-17 AT 06:49PM (MST)[p]"Bringing the LE tags back into the draw won't bring more kids into hunting. By the time they draw the tag they're grown up and what are you teaching kids when they think good hunting is based around LE tags?"

Nail on THE head.

Well you grow an entire generation of entitled applicants that truly believe that chit to the point of our general season hunts not being restrictive enough. So ya cut tags, develop 29 fairie dust units, raise b2d ratios and convince hunters that not hunting excess buck deer is a good thing.

You grow an entire generation of entitled applicants that are pissed after finally drawing a tag don't see 400 inch Bulls and 250 inch bucks in every draw. So ya gotta restrict even more.

Finally, and sadly we are years past this, you grow an entire generation of "hunters" that never knew the time "no trespassing" signs were an absolute freaking disgrace. Now landowners gotta sell access to kill our wildlife, claim depredation loss, demand antlerless slaughter while closing off access to hunting.

It's really simple. We don't, and haven't killed wildlife to manage since 1994, we manage wildlife to kill.





"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."

LONETREE 3/15/16

>LAST EDITED ON May-31-17
>AT 06:49?PM (MST)
>
>"Bringing the LE tags back into
>the draw won't bring more
>kids into hunting. By the
>time they draw the tag
>they're grown up and what
>are you teaching kids when
>they think good hunting is
>based around LE tags?"
>
>Nail on THE head.
>
>Well you grow an entire generation
>of entitled applicants that truly
>believe that chit to the
>point of our general season
>hunts not being restrictive enough.
>So ya cut tags, develop
>29 fairie dust units, raise
>b2d ratios and convince hunters
>that not hunting excess buck
>deer is a good thing.
>
>
>You grow an entire generation of
>entitled applicants that are pissed
>after finally drawing a tag
>don't see 400 inch Bulls
>and 250 inch bucks in
>every draw. So ya gotta
>restrict even more.
>
>Finally, and sadly we are years
>past this, you grow an
>entire generation of "hunters" that
>never knew the time "no
>trespassing" signs were an absolute
>freaking disgrace. Now landowners gotta
>sell access to kill our
>wildlife, claim depredation loss, demand
>antlerless slaughter while closing off
>access to hunting.
>
>It's really simple. We don't, and
>haven't killed wildlife to manage
>since 1994, we manage wildlife
>to kill.
>
>
>
>
>
>"If the DWR was just doing
>its job, and
>wildlife and hunting were the actual
>focus,
>none of this process would even
>matter.
>But that is not the focus
>or the goal in any
>
>of this. The current DWR regime,
>and
>SFW were born out of wildlife
>declines,
>and are currently operated and funded
>
>under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
>
>tags would not even be worth
>anything if
>the focus was where it was
>supposed to
>be, and wildlife and tags were
>plentiful.
>But under the current business model,
>
>that is how the money and
>power is
>generated. It is generated through the
>
>rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
>resource. A resource that is supposed
>to
>be being beneficially managed for the
>
>masses that own that resource, ie.
>US.
>The problem is obvious, hedging is
>not a
>long term sustainable strategy, and
>others have to lose, for some
>to win. In
>this case it is us, the
>many, and our
>resources, that are being forced to
>lose,
>because there is a minority who's
>power
>and money is derived from our
>loses."
>
>LONETREE 3/15/16


Hey ww!

How many More years ya Figure I got left?







[Font][Font color = "blue"]I Changed My Signature Just for NVB!
Like 6 Damn Times Now!

Better be next year or I'm hacking your app and you'll have a damn South Cache Archery tag?




"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."

LONETREE 3/15/16

Utah has led the way in commercializing hunting and moving away from the time tested North American Conservation Model and back to the "King's Forest" as you say. I have no doubt that many important projects have been funded with conservation permit dollars but at what cost? We have created a system in this state where the tail wags the dog. Where we make management decisions based upon how it might impact auction tag prices instead of biological reasons. Where we are more concerned about a handful of guides and high rollers then the thousands of average joes sportsmen. Where back room deals and cronyism prevail over common sense and transparency. Where one or two powerful conservation groups control the WB and wildlife management decisions. I could go on and on. And ironically, we have done all this in this supposed name of "conservation."

I am happy that you have seen the light and recognize that there is a problem but the question remains how do we fix the problem? Most sportsmen have very little faith in effecting change through the RAC process. Given your position, you probably feel differently. I would love to chat with you some time and hear your ideas on how we can work to together to resolve this problem. Personally, I believe that the DWR, the WB, and the Legislature are all addicted to the power and money generated by these high dollar tags and it will be difficult, if not impossible, to reverse course. The "Utah Model," as our friends in neighboring states call it, is like a cancer. Once it takes hold it just grows and spreads.

-Hawkeye-

>Better be next year or I'm
>hacking your app and you'll
>have a damn South Cache
>Archery tag?
>
>
>
>
>"If the DWR was just doing
>its job, and
>wildlife and hunting were the actual
>focus,
>none of this process would even
>matter.
>But that is not the focus
>or the goal in any
>
>of this. The current DWR regime,
>and
>SFW were born out of wildlife
>declines,
>and are currently operated and funded
>
>under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
>
>tags would not even be worth
>anything if
>the focus was where it was
>supposed to
>be, and wildlife and tags were
>plentiful.
>But under the current business model,
>
>that is how the money and
>power is
>generated. It is generated through the
>
>rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
>resource. A resource that is supposed
>to
>be being beneficially managed for the
>
>masses that own that resource, ie.
>US.
>The problem is obvious, hedging is
>not a
>long term sustainable strategy, and
>others have to lose, for some
>to win. In
>this case it is us, the
>many, and our
>resources, that are being forced to
>lose,
>because there is a minority who's
>power
>and money is derived from our
>loses."
>
>LONETREE 3/15/16

There any 250" PISSCUTTERS on South Cache?








[Font][Font color = "blue"]I Changed My Signature Just for NVB!
Like 6 Damn Times Now!

Nebo,
Outside of the fact that this should have happened 10 or more years ago, I wholeheartedly agree with your proposal and will support it to the best of my ability. The real challenge will be getting any movement or agreement on this from the Wildlife Board, which is completely infested/infected with the SFW view of the "King's tags".

Just scroll through Bowhunt's list of auction tags above to see how Utah has screwed over the average public land hunter. It is time to get Utah back in check and give some/most of these tags back.

Thanks Nebo for pushing this a bit - I would love to see this proposal gain some momentum and bring about some much needed changes!!

That's a scary long list. Does anyone know how much money the state of Utah nets from these tag sales? Not the 3rd party organization...just the state.

LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-17 AT 09:17AM (MST)[p]How many Henry Mts tags are being auctioned yearly ?

The problem our animals in Utah are facing is that they are being grown to record book sizes, on public lands, with very strict restrictions to hunting on those public lands, all so the top dollar hunters can kill them, alongside a small percentage of "lottery winners".

This is at the expense of surrounding big game hunting areas that are then over-sold for general season tags.

Those who hunt public land are already precluded from hunting the tens and tens of thousands of big game animals that reside on private grounds in Utah (especially northern Utah). These are more animals who receive less hunting pressure, at the expense of increased tag numbers on general season units, and reduced numbers/age objectives on those units.

This is evident in point creep for both Limited Entry and General Season units in all of Utah.



"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24

Looks like there were 3 Henry Mtns Deer tags auctioned this year (2017):

2 auctioned by Mule Deer Foundation
1 auctioned by Sportsmen for Fish & Wildlife

ElkhunterUt is correct, there were three Conservation Henry's Deer Permits auctioned off to the highest bidder. However, there were also three additional Henry's Deer Permits given away through the Expo tag drawing. That is 6 tags total that went to Conservation and Expo tags.

-Hawkeye-

Good point Hawkeye - when you consider 6 Henrys tags for auction/expo in relation to, or as a percentage of, the total # given in the public drawing, it is further evidence of the gross abuse of the "conservation" tag system in Utah!!

This is the best proposal out of a RAC memeber I have ever seen. I'm not opposed to conservation/expo permits, per se. But if I rememember correctly from the list posted above, there are over 500 tags involved each year. That is ridiculous. Everyone is trying to figure out how to fix the point creep problem. How about 500+ tags back into the draw?

Cut the expo tags in half. Conservation tags go away entirely. There just is no reason why we should be taking public resources to finance these organizations the way we do. Some people call that welfare and entitlement programs. Not real popular around these parts, last I checked.

Founder- what day are we marching on the Capitol? I'll be there. But, it's the Wildlife Board we have to convince to change this. That said, I'll still come and take part.

How do we get the gov to quit appointing SFW plants to the WB and start putting people that care more about the public hunter?

I'm glad to see people sharing the same thoughts as myself.
They need to cut the expo tags in half! From 200 to 100! Then take 3/4 of the conservation tags and put them back in the draw.

For the past 10 years, Our deer and elk numbers and quality don't show justification for all the money made from these tags. Period!
Yet point creep and unsuccessful letters to your average joe continue to climb.

This "Kings forest" mentality and idea needs to be derailed. I will gladly show up at capital hill.





"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt

It was announced that two new members have been chosen to be on the WB, I don't believe that either one has ties to SFW. They still need to be confirmed by the legislature. They are Karl Hirst from the Central RAC, who I can trust will do a great job and Kevin Albrecht chairman of the SE RAC. Both are upstanding guys who will be fair and do all they can to protect our hunting heritage.
I'm not an SFW guy, but in fairness to those on the board who have SFW connections, I have not always agreed with their positions but they try very hard to fair and balanced in their voting. I have seen in the past few years that the RACs have become more and more a player in what the board decides. Several items have been put into place by the WB because a majority of the RACs came up with different proposals that were passed by them and were different than the DWR proposals. There have been a number of proposals that were passed by the WB that one or two WB members voted against but because the majority of the RACS supported them they ended up being passed by the WB.
Your voice matters at the RACs. I've seen it happen. Hopefully that same tone will prevail with the new make up of the WB.

Nebo,
Thank you for the update!! The 2 new members to the Wildlife Board are great news!! I know Karl Hirst personally and can vouch for him all day long. He actually played a big part in the first deer I ever killed with my bow as a youth hunter at only 13 years old. He is a passionate hunter and good dude all around. So glad to hear this!!

Now let's get some momentum behind your proposal here. I really like the proposal of cutting the expo tags from 200 to 100 and reducing the auction tags by 75% and returning all of those tags back to the general draw.

Another positive of reducing the auction tags to a smaller # is that it will likely drive up the cost of each tag so the benefit is still there.

Not sure you can do anything about the 200 Expo tags right now. they are under contract to the Expo partners for the next few years. However I do think that going forward everyone who is interested should go to the RAC meetings, e-mail RAC and WB members and express your concern. I know this LE tags are a small portion of the overall number but if the general public can get even another 100 LE tags through the normal draw process every other year that would be good.
As I stated before, when circumstances warrant a decrease in LE tags for a particular unit the conservation tags should be the ones taken out of the tag allotment first-- not from the general LE draw.-- My opinion--

LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-17 AT 08:42PM (MST)[p]Nebo-

You are correct that the Expo Tags are under contract to SFW and MDF until 2021. See https://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/expo_permit_contract.pdf. However, you are incorrect in stating that the WB cannot reduce the number of tags during the term of the contract.

Under Section 3 of the Contract, the group's have the right to "up to 200 expo tags" allocated annually by the WB and the DWR. Therefore, the WB and the DWR could allocate something less than 200 tags in any year of the Contract.

In addition, Section 8 of the Contract clearly states that the Contract is "subject to all future rules changes approved by the WB." Therefore, the WB could amend the Expo Tag Rule at any time to reduce the number of tags.

Simply put, the WB's hands are not tied on this issue during the term of the contract (plus the option for an additional 5 years that was just added to the rule), they just want us to think their hands are tied. Practically speaking, however, we all know the WB and the DWR will not do anything to reduce the Expo Tag number until after 2026 (2021 + 5 additional years). I am ready and willing to continue fighting on these issues but the conservation groups, the RACs, the WB, and the DWR have created a system that will be very difficult to change.

By way of example, you may remember me making a public comment at the Central RAC a couple years ago that the new 5-year option rule would allow the groups to lock up the Expo Tags for 10 years at a time without any opportunity for public input, changes to the system or other competitive bids. That rule change was pushed through by those groups to eliminate competition, public input, and the opportunity to change the system. Well, we are now stuck with the consequences of those rule changes that were rammed through and it may be a decade before there is any real uopportunity for change to the Expo Tag system.

-Hawkeye-

"I know this LE tags are a small portion of the overall number but if the general public can get even another 100 LE tags through the normal draw process every other year that would be good."


Nebo12000,

Its good to want more tags for hunting. What you have stated you want in the above sentence is perfectly reasonable. Now lets come up with a real plan. First, please answer a question for me.

How many LE big game units are there in Utah?

If you remember the bidding process that just took place a year ago or so RMEF came in with a far more competitive bid than SFW did for the expo contract. The powers that be in Utah didn't even try to hide their corruption by giving the contract to SFW. They put it out there for all to see and the reaction or reprocussions were almost nothing.

Bottom line, if Utah wants to change their model they are going to have to elect new people into offices.

I just don't see that happening.

You hit the nail on the head Marburg. The current decision-makers are too addicted to the power, money and influence associated with wealth tags to allow a few rebel rousers to threaten their golden goose. It would take major changes within the DWR and WB, and possibly even the legislature and governor's office, before we see any real change in direction.

-Hawkeye-

Hiiiiiiiijeyaaaaaack!

>You hit the nail on the
>head Marburg. The current
>decision-makers are too addicted to
>the power, money and influence
>associated with wealth tags to
>allow a few rebel rousers
>to threaten their golden goose.
> It would take major
>changes within the DWR and
>WB, and possibly even the
>legislature and governor's office, before
>we see any real change
>in direction.
>
>-Hawkeye-


Couldn't agree more Hawkeye...

LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-17 AT 12:19PM (MST)[p]>Hiiiiiiiijeyaaaaaack!

It looks like Tri doesn't like the way this thread is going even though it's still on track! We are discussing what it would take to shift LE permits back into the public draw, aren't we?

However, I really don't think we need to go as far as Jason suggests. To be honest, most of the higher up state officials don't have that much interest in us and our plight. Most of them don't even know how the system works nor how the WB's decisions affect our lifestyle. Plus avid outdoorsmen and women only make up a small portion of their visible constituency and they have much bigger fish to fry, pun intended.

But that being said, we make up a major portion of the Wildlife Board's and the DWR's visible constituency and can have major impact on their decisions. But only if we are willing to speak up in mass, particularly at RAC's and Wildlife Board meetings, but otherwise on the phone, email, fax, letter, social media, etc. Your opinion counts! Do I need to say it again? I hope not.

My opinion on this issue? I thought you'd never ask. I think it's a big move in the right direction. While it won't have much effect on increased opportunities to hunt deer, elk and turkeys because of the numbers and general seasons, the OIL, antelope, bear and cougar hunts are a different story. Those permits back in the draw would make a big difference in odds and point creep.

Now, FWIW (and without trying to hiiiiiiiijeyaaaaaack this thread), it appears the Wildlife Board changes are pretty much a wash with Kevin replacing John Bair. He may or may not be part of SFW, but he definitely promotes trophy hunting over opportunity per his remarks and votes on the Mule Deer Committee. The other gentleman I don't know, but I'm pretty sure he's not a wildlife biologist replacing Mike King, so we may lose a little there (or gain, depending on your view). In any case, YOU (and I) can still make a difference by speaking up.

I Like founders idea, meet on the capital's steps..I'd show up! Follow the money straight to SFW! BH1

I'd like to see another tubby multi millionaire get another photo op with floss back molars or similar. The groupies can't seem to get enough.

And a good handful of us continue to fan the flames buying the same old rag mag year after year. Not me. Whatever floats your boat but I don't get this whole back slaps all around sub culture of the hero check writer surrounded by his platoon of spotters where for only the cost of an overpriced magazine I can read the gripping tale of
Triumph. Someone buys these damn things.

Of those 500 tags, how many were taken out of the non resident pool? Say we (NR) get back a couple hundred tags, will they all stay in the non resident pool? Or, do the NR only get up to 20 of those tags. My bet is the pizzel envies will want most to stay in the resident pool. Just a question not an argument.

Seeing as the majority of those tags came out of the resident pool maybe the majority should go back to residents.

I feel that as a Res of Utah, where ever the tags come from, they should go back to that spot. As a NR in a lot of other states, Utah is not all that fair to the NR hunters. They should get min 2 tags for every LE unit so they at least have a Max and random. But this is for another day in another thread.

I would love to see something happen with all the Auction tags and Expo Tags. As mentioned before, the Expo tags are "UP TO" 200 tags. So why not limit that. Bare min, rotate 200, 100, 200, 100 and by doing that lets see if the Expo draws as many people as the 200 tag years do. Maybe by limiting the # of auction tags, the Price of the few will be higher. Maybe if those that buy auction tags had the same waiting periods apply like the rest of us do, the price or worth of the tag will go up. I dont know for sure, but something needs to happen and change.

Robiland,

Why does something "need" to change?

Give us a straight answer on this. I didn't draw a single tag this year and I don't think taking someone else's tag opportunity is how to fix my problem.

What is it about so many on here that believe if they don't "have" the path to satisfaction is to "take"? That really fixes nothing and is the true foundation of greed.

Trippy state is right back at his same old same old. Many of us dont have the path to satisfaction. Some of us do. GREAT! But why is it that the rich stay at the front of the line and hunt every year and the rest of the hunters are back in line waiting their turn?

Can you prove, TRIPPY, that all the guys spending all this money has made a difference on our deer and elk herds?

We all know that all the surrounding states have equal or better hunting than Utah does. So why should we let the rich keep jumping to the front of the line and buy tags in the name of conservation to better our game? We know it isnt making a difference. All it does is fund conservation groups and their pockets.

If I could see that Utahs hunting was significantly better than the surrounding states, then I'd say keep it the way it is. But I dont see it and neither does the majority of the hunting population.

But we all know Skipppy likes to complain/argue about anything, even if the sky is blue!

Carry on Skip!

LAST EDITED ON Jun-05-17 AT 11:45AM (MST)[p]Read Nebo's original post. This thread is not about average sportsmen being greedy and looking to take from someone else. It is about the commercialization and "pay to play" movement that is taking over our sport. It starts with a relatively innocent idea to take a few tags out of the general pool to auction off in the name of conservation. And before you know it, our representatives have taken hundreds of tags out of the public drawing to be sold/raffled for millions of dollars every year. Ask yourself this, after selling off literally thousands of tags and generating tens of millions of dollars for our conservation groups over the last two decades, is hunting in Utah any better than in surrounding western states?

-Hawkeye-

I think we need to compare apples with apples.
Utah has more growth and is projected to grow more, and has less winter range than ID,WY,and CO.

I agree we have too many conservation permits and expo permits in my opinion. I think these permits should be cut back some.

I also have heard more complaints, "I didn't even draw a general deer tag." More people, a lot more in the future 20-30 years. Same or less resource.

Is hunting better than other states with these conservation and expo tags. The DWR must believe to some point.

I do know that if we didn't do the predator control,habitat projects, water projects, get funds for highway fencing and tunnels for migrating deer, funds for damage crops, funds for transplants, funds for research etc, hunting would be a lot worse IMP in Utah.

As usual Robiland you were too scared to answer the question so you just attack me. I expect nothing less from a person who believes his satisfaction will come when someone else doesn't get a deer tag.

I also love how you want to see "significant" proof that this is a better system when the system is allocating LESS THAN %1 OF BIG GAME TAGS.

Where is the logic in finding significant results from an almost insignificant percentage of the resource????? If %50 percent of the tags were being auctioned then it would make more logic to demand some results but you do the same over a less than a %1 figure.

Here is the part I can tell you for sure and you can't argue. The %1 of tags that have been monetized make several times the amount of money for the DWR that those same tags would if they were in the public draw. SO if you want results for the money then performance accountability from your DWR is what you should demand, NOT MORE TAG OPPORTUNITY FOR YOURSELF.

You want to know who loves watching you cry about tag allocation????? Your DWR does. That's right. They can give you a scapegoat like the evil rich people you hate and never have to be put under a microscope for their performance in managing big game because you are by nature greedy. They have played you like a one string banjo for years.

There is no question that the conservation permit money has allowed the DWR to greatly improve wildlife mitigation and the transplants that have taken place. I just personally feel its time to give back to the sportsman of this state a portion of those tags. Putting back those conservation tags into the LE draws every other year, should give more sportsman more opportunity to draw. It won't help a ton in the point creep problem but it certainly will help some. Maybe there could be some type of rotation so that the conservation groups could receive those tags for auction every other year. They do some very valuable work for our wildlife and I think having a portion of that income would help them continue to do that

Nebo12000,

You may have missed my question earlier but I would like to see a plan developed to avert this bickering over who kills the last deer.

How many LE big game units are there in Utah?

"How many LE big game units are there in Utah?"

The entire state is LE, even for General Season.




"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."

LONETREE 3/15/16

Greg and Rich-

I don't think that we are really disagreeing on any major points. I admit that we have funded some important projects with conservation permits funds. I would certainly hope so given that we have generated tens of millions of dollars off of conservation and expo tags over the last 20 years. However, the question is given that Utah has more wealth tags than all other states combined, why isn't hunting in Utah significnatly better than it is in other Western states? Yes, each state is different and faces its own unique challenges but how do other states effectively manage their big game herds without pimping out hundreds of premium tags year after year? Since this was all done in the supposed name of "conservation", what has been the actual return on investment for the average sportsmen who sacrifice an opprotunity to draw those tags and wait patiently in line while the same high rollers jump to the front of the line year after year?

-Hawkeye-

So how many units is that?

Not true Hawkeye. The majority of big horn tags in my state are sold for enormous figures. The vast majority of our mule deer are sold for prices that would make your eyes bulge. There isn't a single public elk hunt and in fact my state won't even recognize them as native game.

Guess who has more desert bighorn now than when the Spaniards were writing land grants. Guess what state has the fastest growing mule deer and elk herd in the USA even though we have some of the most marginal habitat. We have tons and tons of hunters. Tons and tons of kids hunting. You know why? Because we put the game first. We spend billions every year putting game first.

My son is coming to the shop with me every day since school was out. One of my customers offered to take him deer hunting this year for free. I get offered turkey hunts, hog hunts, deer hunts, duck hunts every year. It's not because of my charming personality either. It's because we have game running out our frickin' ears.

Just like every other person I have ever seen blaming their problems on someone else's "wealth" your problem will be everlasting until you wise up and put the effort into the real issue.

Politicians want do anything, they're like gangsters, they go wherever the money is.

Maybe a referendum put to the people? From what I've read most of the general population isn't against hunting but they don't like trophy hunters. If you could convince them they're just whoring out the wildlife it might pass. Shouldn't be too hard to get enough signatures to put it on the ballot.

Don't get me wrong, I like to trophy hunt as much as the next guy, but I've never forgot where I came from.

The whole state Tri. What the hell does it matter if it's 3 units or 333 units?




"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."

LONETREE 3/15/16

Lets face it- Utah is a public state - not near as private as Texas. The management of wildlife here is in great measure determined by budget constraints. The conservation tags have been a huge boost in providing funding for habitat work, transplants etc. I personally feel that a lot has been set in motion that will benefit us for years to come. I just feel that we need to give back a significant number of these conservation tags to the general hunting public in the LE draws. Any of the tags the conservation groups will retain will still bring in a lot money for worthy wildlife projects. A few hundred more tags in the hands of the general hunting public would be a welcome move.

Nebo12000,

Earlier you said you wanted 100 tags put back into the draw. Now you say you want a few hundred. Then you stated you wanted them back "in the hands of the general hunting public". The people who purchase those tags are "the general hunting public".

Now I want to talk about a REAL solution to your problem instead of making people fight it out for less than %1 of the states big game tags. So please answer my question. How many LE units are in Utah? Let's start fixing problems so both methods of tag distribution can exist and both groups of people get more tags.

>Not true Hawkeye. The majority
>of big horn tags in
>my state are sold for
>enormous figures. The vast
>majority of our mule deer
>are sold for prices that
>would make your eyes bulge.
> There isn't a single
>public elk hunt and in
>fact my state won't even
>recognize them as native game.

No body cares Pigboy and thanks for reminding us what a sh!thole TexASS really is.



>Guess who has more desert bighorn
>now than when the Spaniards
>were writing land grants.
>Guess what state has the
>fastest growing mule deer and
>elk herd in the USA
>even though we have some
>of the most marginal habitat.
> We have tons and
>tons of hunters. Tons
>and tons of kids hunting.
> You know why?
>Because we put the game
>first. We spend billions
>every year putting game first.
>

Nothing but half truths and lies. Just like your less then 1% of tags analogy in Utah. You can't win an argument with facts so you have to resort to half truths and lies. Pathetic.

You also have more African game in TexASS now than when the Spaniards were writing land grants too. What's your point?

Oh btw, you must have missed my question in the other threads. Why did you take down your WLH is a sheep poacher thread?

Like I said previous. I think we should scale back some permits as well. I totally agree.

The money from the permits are an investment for our future. The main threats to our future in UT that we have some control, are winter range availability and quality. Predator control, emergency feed programs, sportsmen access, minimizing road kill, political threats and litigation on hunting, ESA, ranchers/farmers selling property to developers, that wildlife live on, etc.

How much are tag and expo money generated helping preserve or help our future hunting, compared to loss of future hunting tags due to poor planing, lose of habitat, loss of access, development, etc?

"How many LE units are in Utah?"

Google it you f-ing retard, and why you're at it google the actual number and percentage of LE tags that Utah pimps out.

LE Buck deer-- 27 units About 40% of the land in the state.
LE Elk -- 26 units- about 50% of the land in the state.
Look on the DWR website for the listings for these and all of the other species and their respective units-- antelope, bear, turkey ............
Tri, I figure you're a more private lands/hunting guy because you must be connected to that industry in some way. I don't have a problem with that, but somehow you're missing the point that all of the population in Utah and the sportsman pay taxes here and a portion of which is used to manage non-game species as well as the other species. Sportsman pay an additional fee (tags and licenses, additional taxes on hunting gear, etc etc) so the residents here have a vested interest in how wildlife is managed. There are CWMU's -- 63-- at latest count which is private land. There are private and public permits available on these units. The private land owners can sell the private permits for whatever the market is willing to pay. The public permits available are gained through the LE draw process. Remember this-- in Utah the wildlife are owned and managed by the state of Utah.
I did say if even 100 permits were put back into the LE draw that would be good. I didn't give a number that was set in stone. Besides, what the heck does that have to do with the discussion concerning this matter at this point. The number and kind of permits would certainly end up being a compromise between the entities involved.

Tri-state it isn't only money why game thrives in texas you don't have winter mortality on elk deer and sheep like we do in the rockies. Texas is less than 2% public land that's not a figure anyone should be proud of. Texas is a huge state and it's pretty sad there's that little public land. Would I like to do some texas hunting absolutely.

I am going to ignore the other useless stuff you posted and just stick with you trying to half answer the question. Thanks for doing that.

To keep this simple lets just stick with deer and elk units. You want at least 100 big game tags in 53 units. That is a little less than 2 tags per unit but since we can't have partial deer or elk lets round it out to an even 2. SO now the question remains is how much larger does the unit herd need to be to allow these 2 tags per unit on a continuous basis? Lets go conservative. Lets assume we want to harvest %10 or less of our available males per unit. And lets set a target of a male female ratio of 1 male per 3 females. Guess how much larger each herd has to be in each unit to allow for this? Well the answer is 80. That's right 80 more big game animals in each LE unit is what is holding you back from getting at least 100 more permits for the general public. If the DWR is so screwed up that they can't produce eighty more big game animals per unit within a couple of years NO AMOUNT OF BICKERING FOR TAGS IS GOING TO SAVE YALL.

Whether these people want to admit it or not this is greed over horns. It doesn't have to do with hunting. There is plenty of other hunting to be down in plenty of other areas. These people want to argue over the big deer or elk tags. They aren't satisfied with the thrill of the chase unless part of the chase is complaining year after year on the internet or coming up with cockamamy theories of government corruption and criminals running expos.

Nebo12000, IF YOU WANT MORE TAGS STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND PUT MORE HOOVES ON THE GROUND. It does nothing positive for the future of hunting to partake in bickering based on the fundamentals of greed. And don't forget the people who by a tag ARE THE GENERAL PUBLIC. You may not like them. You may think you are better than them. But they get to have a say in this also because they own just as much of this as you do.

Westerntines,

My post about Texas was in Response to a ill-informed post by Hawkeye. He claimed Utah has the most "wealth" tags but no proof that their hunting is any better. I was showing how Texas citizens spend waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more money on hunting than people in Utah or any where else for that matter and we have way more hunting availability. SO there is evidence money makes for better management.

As for winter die off You are right we don't have as much winter die off once you get south of I-40. But then you don't have the summer die-offs we do. 6 years ago around %90 of our trans pecos antelope were wiped out in a drought. In that same year the fawn survival across the state was below %10. Much of the state not a single fawn survived. Your deer don't have to survive 100 degree temps everyday, all day for three months out of the year. But guess what? We have millions and millions of dollars to help get them through these challenges. We have been working for several years to restore the antelope and they are coming back quickly. Deer numbers are bouncing back quicker than anyone expected. Game birds are doing better than they have in 40 years.

You have heard that cop out so long from the dwr that they can't manage game because of winter die off for so long you believe it. Deer mortality is nothing new or special for the state of Utah.

" I was showing how Texas citizens spend waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more money on hunting than people in Utah or any where else for that matter and we have way more hunting availability."

Got any proof of this? or is this more of your fairytales, half truths and lies?

You're a frecken idiot. Nebo isn't talking about an additional 100 permits, he's talking about 100 permits that are already allocated, you know the permits that are being used to subsidized a certain special interest group. But you already knew this, you typed out that long phony BS just so you could partake in your favorite hobby, arguing on the internet.

and Cityboy, you have no clue about winter die-offs in the Rockies, no clue what so ever. Stop pretending you do.

I can tell that you know very little about the parameters and triggers that are in place that have come about through biologist input, RAC meetings, committee meetings etc. Its easy for you to say just put more hooves on the ground-- mother nature has the last say in regards to that. You see this through the prism of private land ownership and management- it doesn't work like that here Northern Utah experienced a 90% fawn die off this winter-- hard to put more hooves on the ground when that happens and turn around and sell more tags. I'm not sure if you know much about the winter range limitation that we have. It continues to be developed and lost as winter range.-- No, you really don't know. this is a balancing act between opportunity and "quality".
By the way-- I more than willing to 'step up to the plate' and be involved, having an opportunity to serve on the CRAC helps educate you and gives you some good perspectives. Do you even know how the public process works in Utah ? Its not perfect but it involves the public in how a public resource is managed.

Hawkeye,
The answer to your question is relatively simple. The hunting in Utah is what it is due to refusal of the DWR to properly manage our herds. Take alway all the money, all the groups and what you are left with is poor management of a resource for decades.

Nebo-

He knows nothing. But don't shatter his reality. Ignorance is bliss.

-Hawkeye-

Nebo12000,

Have I come on here talking about what you do or don't know???? No I didn't. I didn't come on here treating you like a fool. But I also didn't come on here blowing wind up your skirt about 10,000 deer in every unit. 80 deer. That's all that stands between you and better hunting for all the people you serve. And that's tooooo much of a challenge. Nope just easier to join into the class warfare and get in the pile of other people on here that want to argue over who gets to kill the last deer. Who gives a damn about the herds or whether they ever get managed correctly as long as there is a %.0001 better chance of me drawing a Henry's tag next year. Are you ready to sell off your kids chances of hunting so you can say you socked it to the evil rich guy who wanted to buy a tag? Sounds like you are.

SO tell me how it works Nebo12000? How is it better for the herds and management if you take 100 tags out of the auction pool and no with all certainty there will be a couple of million dollars less for the DWR the next year? How does that work. How do you convince the public that spending less money on their wildlife is good for wildlife? You got any other brilliant conclusions like maybe rob the state education fund? Maybe that will make kids smarter. How about the police? Maybe yall should cut their budget by a couple of million? I mean why should they get bullet proof vests if the rest of the general public doesn't get them? Can you think of one government agency that never gets the funding it needs and runs better when you take away even more money from them?

Imagine the government owns a dairy farm and everyone in one town gets under valued almost free dairy products. Every year the town gets bigger but the farm doesn't. The farm wants more money to make needed changes to provide the same services to the citizens, but noooooooo. The citizens feel they are entitled to dairy products for the same money they have always paid. Because the citizens on dairy welfare never paid it forward pretty soon the dairy farm is almost insolvent. They are rationing dairy products to the citizenry and barley making ends meet. The citizenry keeps getting bigger but the farm just gets smaller. Pretty soon a group of people who don't care to sit on their butts waiting for handouts and have succeeded in life tell the government dairy they are willing to pay enormous prices for the milk. SO much so it would actually help get the dairy producing at higher levels so the welfare handouts could at least continue or even become more. Things continue working because there is money being infused into the dairy but the welfare recipients resent and hate the people who get milk every day, EVEN THOUGH THEY PAY MUCH MUCH MORE THAN WHAT MILK COSTS TO PRODUCE.

Nebo socialism doesn't work because of human nature. If you look at it you can see it failing here. The truth of it is THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH DEER TAGS.

Why are people even trying to talk to Tri? Ignore him. He will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever listen to anything you have to tell him. Don't waste your time responding to him and cluttering these topics.

Raise resident tag fees to compensate for the loss of funds.....

That's a good option. thanks

This should come as no surprise................. I appreciate TriState and his unorthodox comments and questions. He's an out of the box thinker. If you only hear "one voice", how are you going to consider boarder and different perspectives.

We have problems. We've always had problems to solve, since we rose up on two legs. We will always continue to have problems. Circumstances change, whether we like it or not, if you don't think out of the box, you continue to remain in the same rut your in. Those folks that consider "different" alternatives are the innovators and the ones that ultimately find solutions to issues that many of us keep trying to solve without changing the medicine we give the patient.

You know the old adage: Albert Einstein said. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I think TriState is brilliant and I appreciate his participation. We'd all be worse off, if his voice was silent. It's don't necessarily mean I agree 100% with everything he say's or how he say's it. So what? I learn from it, hearing other opinions is healthy and productive.

Does silencing voices really appeal to you?

DC

That's a great idea hunt the west.

How about set tag prices for these trophy units even higher? Maybe if a general unit deer is raised to $400 then a Henry tag costs $5000 when you pull it.

No one answered so let me ask this way. Were those 200 tags for the expo taken from the non resident pool?

5k might be a little exorbitant, but hey I bet draw odds would go up. Seriously though a general res deer tag is $40 I believe? How many general res tags are given out? How much money does the state make off the deer auction tags after SFW or whoevers cut? And simple math would give an idea of how much a tag would need to increase. I'm sure many will want the non residents or someone else to eat that cost so they can keep a $40 tag and complain about auctions or rich dicks stealing their tags. By the way I am all for those tags being returned to the public and in the resident pool, but the money will be made up somewhere.

Hey Pigboy, you claim TexASS has tons and tons of kids hunting, how many kids would be hunting if they had to buy $400 deer tags?
Answer the question, don't be a cowardly little question dodging beotch like usual.

The ones that's parents thought it was worth 400.00. Or those that felt it was worth saving up for on their own? Just a guess but I bet I'm right.

>No one answered so let me
>ask this way. Were those
>200 tags for the expo
>taken from the non resident
>pool?

No, at least not directly! Those tags and the approx. 500 Conservation tags (and in some cases, the lifetime license tags and the youth tags) are removed from the total unit/species allotment BEFORE the remaining tags are even split into resident/nonresident pools. And when they are split, it's a 90% resident and 10% nonresident approximate ratio. So, I guess you could say that 20 of those Expo tags came from the nonresident "pool" and 180 came from the resident "pool".

LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-17 AT 01:44AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-17 AT 01:42?AM (MST)

>The ones that's parents thought it
>was worth 400.00. Or those
>that felt it was worth
>saving up for on their
>own? Just a guess
>but I bet I'm right.
>

Yep, you're right! And maybe you and/or your young'uns would be on that list, but I would not. Nor can I think of anyone I know who would be, and I know quite a few hunters. You'd lose thousands of hunters, along with their application fees, license fees and tag fees. But, of course, you'd get what you want, an easier trophy hunt with little or no competition.

On the other hand, if we raised the tag prices by $10 to $12, we'd more than make up for the lose of funds from the "returned" Expo and Conservation tags.

1) I agree 100% to keep youth tags at their current cost.

2) the last figure I had was roughly 85,000 general deer permits. Is this still pretty close?

3) Auction tags and the expo application fees generated roughly 6 million in 2016. We probly don't/won't know what DWRs cut was exactly but I'm guessing 70%? The auction tags above include rmef, mdf, etc...

4) using the above assumptions license would need to go up $50 each to cover 4.2 million or $70 to pocket all 6, and that is only raising deer permit fees. Those auction funds include deer, elk, sheep, etc....

So is getting rid of the auction tags and expo permits worth a $40-70 price hike for a general tag? Personally I would say yes, but I am not a resident so i don't count anyways.

Yall are totally missing the point. Yall are debating on how to get back to even. Yall should be talking about how to make your dollars so influential that the auction system doesn't even look viable to the politicians. As long as you just keep trying to pay the minimum amount you can possibly get away with paying you are irrelevant to them. Whether you like it or not that is the truth. You don't want to look like stingy freeloaders. Listen to yourselves. I don't mind telling you, if you wouldn't spend $400 to take your kid hunting there is a lot bigger problem there than the cost of a tag. But honestly if you start paying $400 for a tag instead of $40 I am sure the state would be able to find some wiggle room and give the youngins' a break on price. Pay it forward guys. We owe it to the men and women who did it for us.

Lee,
10s of thousands of hunters annually hunt out of state for 400.00 or more. I pay that in several states to just go chase deer. Not "easy" trophy hunts, just regular old deer hunts. Raising the price would not drop the number of overall tags sold. The funny thing is if it did drop the number of tags and less hunters hit the field the second bigger bucks increased so would the interest in paying more for a tag. That all being said I don't want to have tags cost 400.00 in state. I do want more mature bucks in the herd and overall more deer across the state. There are many many many ways to achieve this without cutting tags. The state of Utah and its management are just too lazy and too stubborn to actually make some changes that would allow both. Status quo status quo status quo.

And Lee to claim that none of the hunters you know would not pay 400.00 is a guess not fact. To make a claim like that is outlandish. You know many hunters that would and do pay to hunt. They may not be your friends but you still know them. Helll you set on committees with them.

>Lee,
>10s of thousands of hunters annually
>hunt out of state for
>400.00 or more. I
>pay that in several states
>to just go chase deer.
> Not "easy" trophy hunts,
>just regular old deer hunts.
> Raising the price would
>not drop the number of
>overall tags sold. The
>funny thing is if it
>did drop the number of
>tags and less hunters hit
>the field the second bigger
>bucks increased so would the
>interest in paying more for
>a tag. That all
>being said I don't want
>to have tags cost 400.00
>in state. I do
>want more mature bucks in
>the herd and overall more
>deer across the state.
>There are many many many
>ways to achieve this without
>cutting tags. The state
>of Utah and its management
>are just too lazy and
>too stubborn to actually make
>some changes that would allow
>both. Status quo status quo
>status quo.
>
>And Lee to claim that none
>of the hunters you know
>would not pay 400.00 is
>a guess not fact.
>To make a claim like
>that is outlandish. You
>know many hunters that would
>and do pay to hunt.
> They may not be
>your friends but you still
>know them. Helll you
>set on committees with them.
>


As a Resident of Utah, I WILL NOT PAY $400 to hunt general season deer in Utah. I have 4 people in my family that hunt right now. Me, wife and 2 sons. $1600 to hunt general season deer??? Not in a million years.

Oh, Lee and I are friends too.

LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-17 AT 08:33AM (MST)[p]Robi,
So tags go to 400.00 and let's say Lee is right and it drops overall hunters to a point that shooting a mature buck on general unit becomes the norm. You're telling you that you won't be spending the money to chase those bucks with your boys. That makes zero sense to me. You hunted WY recently. The cost of out of state tag, travel, days away from work all the cost of an out of state hunt add up. Why are you willing to pay it for that hunt but not willing to pay it in Utah?

I didn't say Lee didn't know anyone that would pay 400.00. I said it's outlandish to claim everyone he knows would not. That's the problem with you guys, you believe that a small group agreeing on something constitutes "everyone" .

We need to keep prices as low as possible. We don't want people/families with limited resources, being priced out from what they love.

Raising tag prices 10-20 dollars may be an option. I don't think many on this forum has enough information to make a good decision on future plans.

We are going to lose more deer and elk tags and opportunity to hunt in the next 20-30 years because of development ans further loss of winter range. So more people saying "I didn't even draw a general deer tag." The question is, are conservation tag money being spent in ways to minimize the loss of future tags? I hope so. I know most of it is.

There are many families that live from pay check to pay check and don't plan well for retirement and future. Conservation and expo tags are helping us invest in our future. I think they are good programs, but conservation permits can and should be cut back some.

I return to my original question. How do other western states fund their wildlife management without pimping out hundreds of premium tags? Now, I admit that some important projects have been funded with conservation permit dollars over the years but I do not believe for a second that we need hundreds of conservation permits and expo tags to stay afloat. The proof is in the pudding. Look at Wyoming, Colorado, Nevada, Idaho, Arizona, etc. Once again, is hunting in Utah exponentially better than in other western states since we more wealth tags than all of these states combined? No. Not even close. Yet these states all manage their big game populations with a few, limited governor's/auction tags. That being said, I would be willing to pay more for the opportunity to hunt if we could limit or altogather eliminate wealth tags. They are a major threat to hunting as we know it and to the NACM.

-Hawkeye-

Tristate, others have tried to explain this to you but it apparently has not sunk in yet. Comparing Utah and Texas is like comparing apples and oranges. The climates and topography are vastly different. The animals and game are different. And most importantly, Utah is made up of primarily public lands while Texas is almost entirely private lands. So focus your attention on shooting white tails, javalinas, turkeys and exotics under a corn flinger on your buddy's property while we focus on managing our herds of wild big game animals on primarly public lands.

Muley-73

You are right. I did hunt Wyoming 2 years ago in 2015 for deer. Tag price was $286 not $400. Also, that was for me, not for 4 of us. I can do 1 tag $400, like I did 1 tag for $286. I would love to let my boys hunt every year, but at $400, there would only be 1 of 6 in my family. Which is still fine. Its better than nothing. But if we did that, at $400 a general tag, you are back to the KINGS FOREST. Rich play and do as the peasants continue to work and watch from the out side. Raising prices by 10 or 20 I think is fine. at 85,000 tags and $10+ each, is alot of money.

BUT we are not talking about that here, its the huge amount of tags sold to the King and his best men.

I think it would be good to remember that the auction/conservation tags were set in place to help conservation organizations run their orgs and to raise money for habitat improvement projects, transplants, mitigation, other projects etc. As far as I know, the money isn't used specifically to fund the day to day operations of the DWR. I'm sure some of it spills over into the divisions use of personnel for planning and executing transplants, projects etc. Perhaps cutting those conservation tags in half and putting them back into the general LE draw may tighten up some funds available for worthy projects,but I seriously doubt it would stop the conservation orgs from operating or stop the priority projects from moving forward. This is just a way to provide more opportunity for hunters in this state to get an LE tag. I certainly think that this can be accomplished in a reasonable way.
No question I am a "quality" guy first. I personally believe that having more mature bucks in the population is healthy and lets the natural system that allows does to choose a buck with larger antlers and body. According to V. Geist, its important for that to occur to help bucks and does to pass on the genes that will help ensure the proliferation, success, and vitality of the species.

Robi,
We both know that hunting out of state is more than just the cost of the tag. Overall it costs more than hunting in state. But either way you avoided the fact that if big deer are more available you'd pay the 400.00. And so would way more people then Lee or your group would like to admit. It's not the Kings Forrest its simply people willing to pay for the resource. Supply and demand.

Hawkeye if you want to be a smarta55 it would benefit you to type smart posts. In your first paragraph you stated,

" How do other western states fund their wildlife management without pimping out hundreds of premium tags?"


I was the one person who actually responded to your question about other western states and you come back with this,

"Comparing Utah and Texas is like comparing apples and oranges."

Comparing ANY two states is like comparing apples to oranges BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU ASKED FOR IN THE FIRST SENTENCE, BOY. Just because you can't handle the answers to your childish questions doesn't mean they aren't well founded. Grow up and pay attention to your own words.

Next you keep talking about "pimping". Let me explain something to you. All tags cost money. All of them. So every state is "pimping", as you like to call it when you insult everyone at a state agency. Just because you think you're entitled to cheep whores instead of the pricey ones, doesn't somehow make your ideal pimp better than all others on some righteousness scale known only to class war veterans.

"Also, that was for me, not for 4 of us."

I think Robiland just admitted he will blow money on hunting for himself but kids may not be worth it.

"We don't want people/families with limited resources, being priced out from what they love."

Yes we do!!! If a father of 4 can't afford to spend $2000 on deer tags for his kids and himself then screw them. This is a sport for Kings! Plus it would make it that much easier for Pigboy's guide to find him a decent buck.

pigboy you dodged my question, not surprised tho.

>Robi,
>We both know that hunting out
>of state is more than
>just the cost of the
>tag. Overall it costs
>more than hunting in state.
> But either way you
>avoided the fact that if
>big deer are more available
>you'd pay the 400.00.
>And so would way more
>people then Lee or your
>group would like to admit.
> It's not the Kings
>Forrest its simply people willing
>to pay for the resource.
> Supply and demand.


Muley, (and turbo skippy Tri)

I could spend $400 every few years to chase big deer for 1 person in my family. But year in and year out? NO, absolutely not. Hunting out of state is more money for a tag, but not much is different. 5 or 7 days off work is no different if its Utah or Wyoming. Where I hunted Wyoming, drive and gas was about the same as when I drive to Monroe. Food is still the same, depending on what type of hunt it is. But thats off topic again.

But $400 for a resident deer tag? How much for a NON Res deer tag? $1600-$2000??? Not going to happen. If so, back to square 1. Kings Forest, Kings Rules, Kings men hunt big game. Peasants hunt field mice.

Don't forget that in Utah to even apply you have to have, or buy, a license.
Depending on how these funds are used they are eligible for a Federal Match.
Also PR Funds are allocated according to License sales overall meaning we get more funds allocated.

Best part is a large portion of these license buyers actually don't actually take anything.

Carry on with the money woe's




"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."

LONETREE 3/15/16

I don't agree that tags should be 400.00 either. However it's amazing how many people want their cake and to eat it too. The key to all of this is better management across the board. If the DWR had managed properly to begin with groups like SFW would have never gained a foothold. To this day they manage poorly.

Muley 73-

I think most of us would agree that most government organizations are poorly managed. While conservation organizations and conservation tags may have helped in some respects, they have also created new problems -- hence the current discussion. Help me with this question, can conservation organizations such as SFW function/survive without welfare tags? Why is the public's responsibility to subsidize these groups instead of the members?

-Hawkeye-

"To this day they manage poorly"

It's your dads plan bruh.




"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."

LONETREE 3/15/16