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Competing with "long rangers"

 
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upsidethehead
(34 posts)
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Sep-12-17, 
07:54 AM (MST)
"Competing with "long rangers""

If you found yourself pretty much surrounded by 1000+ yard shooters, public land. What techniques would you employ to still tag an animal? These are volley shooters here, that shoot more shells in a single volley than I take to camp.

It's ugly, it's brutal, lots of wounded lost game. I don't want to compete AT it, but short of leaving the area, what can be done to compete WITH it. Legal only!! My buddy already has schemed lots of illegal get even stuff, not my angle here.

I have some thoughts, just curious how others may have handled it. It is very frustrating to be just behind a hill from a clean kill and have 15+ rounds launched over your head from the next mountain over. With nary a follow up to see if they even hit anything.

Though there are some laws being broken it is likely a non-starter as proof and enforcement would be problematic at best, impossible at worst.

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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: Competing ...  Soj51hopefu...      Sep-12-17   1 
  RE: Competing ...  Zeke      Sep-12-17   2 
   RE: Competing ...  Chacoblue777      Sep-12-17   7 
 RE: Competing ...  deerkiller      Sep-12-17   3 
  RE: Competing ...  bullskin      Sep-12-17   4 
   RE: Competing ...  OpeningDay      Sep-12-17   5 
  RE: Competing ...  elkiegirl      Oct-01-17   72 
 RE: Competing ...  eelgrass      Sep-12-17   6 
  RE: Competing ...  elkassassin      Sep-12-17   8 
   RE: Competing ...  mmwb      Sep-12-17   9 
    RE: Competing ...  Muley_73      Sep-13-17   10 
     RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-13-17   11 
      RE: Competing ...  Muley_73      Sep-13-17   12 
       RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-13-17   13 
        RE: Competing ...  One_Duck_Li...      Sep-13-17   18 
         RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-13-17   25 
       RE: Competing ...  mtmuley      Sep-13-17   14 
        RE: Competing ...  One_Duck_Li...      Sep-13-17   16 
         RE: Competing ...  UtahJimmy      Sep-13-17   42 
         RE: Competing ...  Zeke      Sep-13-17   44 
     RE: Competing ...  deadibob      Sep-13-17   15 
      RE: Competing ...  Muley_73      Sep-13-17   17 
       RE: Competing ...  upsidethehe...      Sep-13-17   19 
 RE: Competing ...  huntfishall1      Sep-13-17   20 
  RE: Competing ...  Muley_73      Sep-13-17   21 
   RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-13-17   22 
   RE: Competing ...  One_Duck_Li...      Sep-13-17   23 
    RE: Competing ...  huntfishall1      Sep-13-17   24 
     RE: Competing ...  Muley_73      Sep-13-17   26 
     RE: Competing ...  fortheloveo...      Sep-13-17   27 
      RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-13-17   29 
       RE: Competing ...  fortheloveo...      Sep-13-17   30 
        RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-13-17   31 
         RE: Competing ...  fortheloveo...      Sep-13-17   33 
          RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-13-17   35 
        RE: Competing ...  1911      Sep-19-17   71 
 RE: Competing ...  Gorilla      Sep-13-17   28 
  RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-13-17   32 
   RE: Competing ...  upsidethehe...      Sep-13-17   34 
    RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-13-17   36 
     RE: Competing ...  One_Duck_Li...      Sep-13-17   40 
      RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-13-17   43 
    RE: Competing ...  One_Duck_Li...      Sep-13-17   38 
     RE: Competing ...  upsidethehe...      Sep-13-17   41 
   RE: Competing ...  WHT_MTNMAN      Sep-13-17   37 
    RE: Competing ...  WHT_MTNMAN      Sep-13-17   39 
    RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-13-17   45 
     RE: Competing ...  Muley_73      Sep-13-17   46 
      RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-13-17   47 
       RE: Competing ...  Muley_73      Sep-13-17   50 
      RE: Competing ...  quest      Sep-13-17   48 
      RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-13-17   49 
       RE: Competing ...  Muley_73      Sep-13-17   51 
        RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-13-17   52 
         RE: Competing ...  Muley_73      Sep-13-17   53 
          RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-14-17   54 
           RE: Competing ...  hossblur      Sep-14-17   55 
            RE: Competing ...  Muley_73      Sep-14-17   56 
             RE: Competing ...  One_Duck_Li...      Sep-14-17   57 
              RE: Competing ...  quest      Sep-14-17   58 
             RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-18-17   65 
            RE: Competing ...  GoHigher      Sep-15-17   59 
             RE: Competing ...  hossblur      Sep-17-17   60 
              RE: Competing ...  wstrntines      Sep-17-17   61 
 RE: Competing ...  BrowningRage      Sep-18-17   62 
  RE: Competing ...  wstrntines      Sep-18-17   63 
   RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-18-17   64 
    RE: Competing ...  wstrntines      Sep-18-17   66 
     RE: Competing ...  DW      Sep-18-17   67 
      RE: Competing ...  wstrntines      Sep-19-17   68 
       RE: Competing ...  2_Point      Sep-19-17   69 
        RE: Competing ...  wstrntines      Sep-19-17   70 
         RE: Competing ...  txhunter58      Oct-01-17   73 

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Soj51hopefull
(605 posts)
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Sep-12-17, 
08:51 AM (MST)
1. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

I've never been in that situation. I could see how that would piss you off. There are guys that can shoot that distance but there are even more that buy the night force scope and think they are capable.

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Zeke
(8280 posts)
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Sep-12-17, 
11:43 AM (MST)
2. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

LAST EDITED ON Sep-12-17 AT 11:46 AM (MST)

The technique that works for me when I run into dirt-bags, of any kind, is to move to another area.
My time is too precious to have it ruined by confrontations.

Or just shoot back! JK of course.

Zeke

#livelikezac

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Chacoblue777
(231 posts)
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Sep-12-17, 
07:39 PM (MST)
7. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>LAST EDITED ON Sep-12-17
>AT 11:46 AM (MST)

>
>The technique that works for me
>when I run into dirt-bags,
>of any kind, is to
>move to another area.
>My time is too precious to
>have it ruined by confrontations.
>
>
>Zeke
>
>#livelikezac

Good advice!

Some are capable and qualified to take "long-range" shots, and some are not. Having said that, "long-range" depends on the shooter and equipment, so it's hard to define, and not worth a confrontation.

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deerkiller
(337 posts)
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Sep-12-17, 
11:59 AM (MST)
3. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

Well first, if you ain't shooting bullets, you ain't having fun!

As far as the long range guys go, 90% of the utard rifle deer warriors out there, can't connect on the first shot if the animal is further than 400... and the odds get worse from there. It's pretty pathetic to watch so many people miss so many shots. That said, I have a gun for long range, but every deer ive shot with a rifle has been less than 100 yards from me. If you can get through opening weekend without getting shot or wanting to shoot someone for being dumb, you can usually have the mountain to yourself starting the next morning. Most people are only good for one day.

But, if you can't beat them, join them! You can turn just about any factory rifle into atleast a 500+ yard gun with just a different scope and some better ammo. Most new factory rifles will shoot great groups at 1000 if the guy behind the trigger spends a little time to get to know the gun and how to shoot it.

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bullskin
(667 posts)
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Sep-12-17, 
01:54 PM (MST)
4. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

I cannot count the number of times I have heard archery hunters explain that, while they didn't get a buck, they did have the opportunity to sling a few arrows--as if this somehow made up for an otherwise unsuccessful hunt. It is this lack of respect for the animal that will kill the image of hunters as conservationists. I am not condemning bow hunters--I am one myself whenever I can make the time. I am simply suggesting that hunting is not about slinging arrows or throwing lead, and a rifle hunter at 1000 yards is as bad as an archer at 100.

If you cannot kill your target on the first shot, then there is as much chance that you will injure it as miss it. I realize that anyone can miss, but to intentionally seek increased distance as part of the hunting challenge, while simultaneously accepting greater odds at injuring the animal, is very poor form.

So what can we do about it? How about respecting the guy who has developed the woodsmanship necessary to stalk within responsible range? Or the hunter who passes on the shot rather than take a long shot with a greater risk of injury? I don't want to hear about the techno-geek or the toys he has mastered that enable him to make 800 yards shots. I want to learn from the guy who has developed hunting skills--of which shooting is but a small part. Hunting is all about challenging oneself, and the greater the effort, the greater the reward. Hire a posse to find your animals for you if you wish. Buy a long range rifle/scope combination if you can't cut the distance. Shoot 'em under a feeder if you have to. When the day is done, it's the guy who scouts his own animal, understands the game and the terrain well enough to close, and respects the other hunters in the field that sets the example I want to follow.


Bullskin

*If I buy a better shotgun, I can shoot the mallards over your decoys*

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OpeningDay
(360 posts)
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Sep-12-17, 
03:04 PM (MST)
5. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

I don't have a problem with the "Long Range"shot for someone who is capable. Someone who has earned the right to take that shot through the time spent practicing. The problem I have is bullets flying over the head of the guy that is moving in on the animal. I have spotted many animals 1000 yards away. In most cases I have no idea what or who is between me and that animal. What about the guy that has stalked in to 200 or even 100 yards just to have bullets flying over his head from someone that drops a pad and lets them fly from 1000. Its like the guy that shows up just before shooting and then throws out his decoys 100 yards down wind of yours. It starts to become about an advantage over the guy next to you, than the animal you are both pursuing. I know its been said before, but to me, the excitement comes from the stalk and "hunt" than it does the kill itself. To each their own though.

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elkiegirl
(8 posts)
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Oct-01-17, 
12:13 PM (MST)
72. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

Hey DeerKiller,

Something you said about crowds caught my eye. Would you say the same is true for the general rifle season for elk, that after opening weekend it's less crowded? This year is my first hunt and I was considering going on opening weekend but have been hearing people talk about a lot less pressure during the week or toward the end of the hunt. Thoughts?

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eelgrass
(20082 posts)
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Sep-12-17, 
04:03 PM (MST)
6. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

I don't hunt in country open enough to get a very long shot. A couple hundred yards is about all the visibility I get.

Do they make camo bullet proof vests?

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elkassassin
(15927 posts)
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Sep-12-17, 
07:48 PM (MST)
8. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

The Guy that can do the 1,000 Yard Dash the Quickest is Who Claims the Buck/Bull!

There's Been Boxing Matches over PISSCUTTERS!

Back Me Off to 1,700 Yards,650 is a Little Close & I'm Not Comfortable with it!

A GUT SHOT at 1,700 Yards will Still Make Some Good BRAGGIN Rights so I Can Say I At Least Hit Him!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OsWQNYfEYo

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mmwb
(2236 posts)
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Sep-12-17, 
08:10 PM (MST)
9. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

I don't see it going away. I wonder if those who aren't fostering the skill to get in closer have the skill to follow up on the shots. There is an accomplishment to hitting a target way out there, but it seems to be a long move from hunting.

Hunt in areas where long shots can't be taken for lack of visibility. A lot of big buck hunters probably hunt where they can glass large tracts. Those areas are setups for the long range shooters. No one takes 600 yard shots in the timber.

Set up on escape routes.

As stated above, go later in the season.

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Muley_73
(1659 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
00:58 AM (MST)
10. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

I guess I just don't get the "long range" label on poor sportsman that chose to shoot past their effective range. I personally think it's a joke to watch many many hunters every year dig the old 06 out of the safe and head to range the week before the hunt. I watch them literally spray a target at 100 yards. It's crappy sportsmen that give the bad name not the "long range" guys. They should all me classified the same. It you shoot past your honest effective range you're not being a good steward.

I do also think it's funny to listen to guys say that long range hunters don't have the ability to get close so they turn to long range. I've found quite the opposite. Most of the long range guys I know are very very good hunters. They are maticules and focused. That goes for whatever weapon they shoot. They put in huge hrs shooting and developing the skills. They use that same focus when It comes to scouting and hunting. Many are also great archers. Long range just happens to be one of the tools they care in a belt full of hunting skills.

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DW
(8636 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
07:40 AM (MST)
11. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>I guess I just don't get
>the "long range" label on
>poor sportsman that chose to
>shoot past their effective range.
> I personally think it's
>a joke to watch many
>many hunters every year dig
>the old 06 out of
>the safe and head to
>range the week before the
>hunt. I watch them
>literally spray a target at
>100 yards. It's crappy
>sportsmen that give the bad
>name not the "long range"
>guys. They should all
>me classified the same.
>It you shoot past your
>honest effective range you're not
>being a good steward.
>
>I do also think it's funny
>to listen to guys say
>that long range hunters don't
>have the ability to get
>close so they turn to
>long range. I've found
>quite the opposite. Most
>of the long range guys
>I know are very very
>good hunters. They are
>maticules and focused. That
>goes for whatever weapon they
>shoot. They put in
>huge hrs shooting and developing
>the skills. They use
>that same focus when It
>comes to scouting and hunting.
> Many are also great
>archers. Long range just
>happens to be one of
>the tools they care in
>a belt full of hunting
>skills.

Can they prevent an animal from moving at a thousand yards?


#livelikezac

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Muley_73
(1659 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
09:02 AM (MST)
12. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

DW,
Can archers prevent an animal from jumping the string. I've seen lope and deer duck or jump a shot at 30 yards.

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DW
(8636 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
09:31 AM (MST)
13. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

So the answer is no. I've seen those deer ducking videos as well, those are generally animals on high alert, they know something's up, you've made a mistake somewhere along the line and that shot should probably be passed. They generally result in a clean miss. When you fire a round at a thousand yards at a calm feeding deer and he takes a half step forward the result is a gut shot deer. Neither shot should be takein. IMO


#livelikezac

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One_Duck_Limit
(32 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
10:26 AM (MST)
18. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>So the answer is no. I've
>seen those deer ducking videos
>as well, those are generally
>animals on high alert, they
>know something's up, you've made
>a mistake somewhere along the
>line and that shot should
>probably be passed. They generally
>result in a clean miss.
>When you fire a round
>at a thousand yards at
>a calm feeding deer and
>he takes a half step
>forward the result is a
>gut shot deer. Neither shot
>should be takein. IMO
>
>
>#livelikezac

What happens when you take a shot at a calm feeding deer at 300 yards he takes a 1/2 step forward?


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DW
(8636 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
01:01 PM (MST)
25. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

LAST EDITED ON Sep-13-17 AT 01:05 PM (MST)

>>So the answer is no. I've
>>seen those deer ducking videos
>>as well, those are generally
>>animals on high alert, they
>>know something's up, you've made
>>a mistake somewhere along the
>>line and that shot should
>>probably be passed. They generally
>>result in a clean miss.
>>When you fire a round
>>at a thousand yards at
>>a calm feeding deer and
>>he takes a half step
>>forward the result is a
>>gut shot deer. Neither shot
>>should be takein. IMO
>>
>>
>>#livelikezac
>
>What happens when you take a
>shot at a calm feeding
>deer at 300 yards he
>takes a 1/2 step forward?
>

70% less negative effect than the same shot/step at 1000yds. See the difference?

In fact if you really put the pencil and calculator to its it's probably closer to 80%!


#livelikezac

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mtmuley
(4518 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
09:31 AM (MST)
14. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

Muley_73, defender of flatbills and long rangers. mtmuley

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One_Duck_Limit
(32 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
10:10 AM (MST)
16. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

How many of you have had a bullet fly over your head because of someone taking a long range shot? How many of you witnessed first hand someone taking a shot you would consider long range and not following up? How many of you have witnessed an animal being wounded because of a shot you would consider long range? I would like to hear first hand accounts, not stories about "a buddy of mine".

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UtahJimmy
(99 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
03:31 PM (MST)
42. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>How many of you have had
>a bullet fly over your
>head because of someone taking
>a long range shot? How
>many of you witnessed first
>hand someone taking a shot
>you would consider long range
>and not following up? How
>many of you have witnessed
>an animal being wounded because
>of a shot you would
>consider long range? I would
>like to hear first hand
>accounts, not stories about "a
>buddy of mine".


I ran into a guy this spring while scouting a general OTC unit, that was bragging about his 1200 yard shot last year at a bull. He said: (and I quote because I was listening to him) "I hit him, but didn't have enough to knock him down."

I do not know if he even went to look for him.

When I asked him what he was shooting he said his .260 Remington with a 140 gr bullet.

I think he could tell I was put off by his statements and tried to justify his attempt because he told me he got a cow the year before at something like 890 yards.

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Zeke
(8280 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
03:51 PM (MST)
44. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>How many of you have had
>a bullet fly over your
>head because of someone taking
>a long range shot? How
>many of you witnessed first
>hand someone taking a shot
>you would consider long range
>and not following up? How
>many of you have witnessed
>an animal being wounded because
>of a shot you would
>consider long range? I would
>like to hear first hand
>accounts, not stories about "a
>buddy of mine".

Me personally? NEVER and I suspect you're asking what I was thinking.

It seems "fashionable" to bash the LR shooters, whatever the hell that is, and fun for some to pile on because they know they can't kill an elk at 200 so there's no way a real shooter can at 300!!

Zeke

#livelikezac

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deadibob
(1768 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
09:58 AM (MST)
15. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>I guess I just don't get
>the "long range" label on
>poor sportsman that chose to
>shoot past their effective range.
> I personally think it's
>a joke to watch many
>many hunters every year dig
>the old 06 out of
>the safe and head to
>range the week before the
>hunt. I watch them
>literally spray a target at
>100 yards. It's crappy
>sportsmen that give the bad
>name not the "long range"
>guys. They should all
>me classified the same.
>It you shoot past your
>honest effective range you're not
>being a good steward.
>
>I do also think it's funny
>to listen to guys say
>that long range hunters don't
>have the ability to get
>close so they turn to
>long range. I've found
>quite the opposite. Most
>of the long range guys
>I know are very very
>good hunters. They are
>maticules and focused. That
>goes for whatever weapon they
>shoot. They put in
>huge hrs shooting and developing
>the skills. They use
>that same focus when It
>comes to scouting and hunting.
> Many are also great
>archers. Long range just
>happens to be one of
>the tools they care in
>a belt full of hunting
>skills.

Well I guess as long as they are maticules and focused it's okay then

I stay away from the any weapon general tags. It reminds me of being in the movie Red Dawn. I try to stick to muzzle load and archery hunts, or very limited numbers. The Utah general rifle hunt if f'n scary. I'm surprised there isn't 100 or more people killed each year.

A BULLET TRAIN! The only other thing besides a good guy with a gun, that will stop a bad guy with a gun

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Muley_73
(1659 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
10:22 AM (MST)
17. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

Mt,
Not really, just like to point out reality rather than finding reasons to whine about hunting. Reminds me of other current groups that are sensitive and entitled.

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upsidethehead
(34 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
10:46 AM (MST)
19. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

I feel your pain but this not about judging long rangers ... I have my opinion, this is how have/would you deal with it beside moving.

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huntfishall1
(352 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
11:07 AM (MST)
20. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

My thought is that with more and more folks shooting long distance, and therefore causing an impact (either higher success, wounded animals, poor quality hunt for other hunters) that at some point additional restrictions will need to be put in place, and sportsmen will need to push the state to do so. Its becoming way too common now and also promoted.

I have no problem with guys that are fully capable of making a long range shot, some guys are just darn good at that stuff...but most folks attempting it are fooling themselves into thinking they are great at this sort of stuff. "Hey I can hit 2 foot diameter metal gong at 600 yards at the rifle range, off a bench, with perfect weather conditions, so I assume I can also hit a deer quartering away at that same distance at a 30 degree uphill angle using my backpack as a rest".

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Muley_73
(1659 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
11:18 AM (MST)
21. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

More poor shots at 200 yards and less over the past 50 years than poor shots over 500 yards, I would bet money on it.

This arguement at its roots falls into the elitist vs the average joes. I'm sure I'll hear screaming about that too but if you don't recognize it won't surprise me.

I'm all for more primitive units. It's a huge opportunity to fix a lot of issues. Open your minds people and create united voice. It's all changeable if you don't like it.

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DW
(8636 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
11:38 AM (MST)
22. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

If you want to be an elite sniper there's ample opportunity, I'll even shake your hand at your swearing in ceremony! Treat our deer,elk,and antelope herds with more respect than the enemy we still fight today.


#livelikezac

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One_Duck_Limit
(32 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
11:42 AM (MST)
23. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

What types of restrictions would you like to propose?

Caliber? There are some very effective 6mm bullets on the market today used for long range shooting. You want to go smaller than 6mm?

Scope magnification? I think this would deter a few but not all. If you can spot a buck at 1000 yards with 10x bino's you could attempt a shot with a 9x scope.

Adjustable turret caps? You can take the regular cap off and make the adjustment just the same.

Reticles with hold over marks?

Range finders? I actually think this would do it. If you don't know the range you can't make the shot.

Make it illegal to take a shot farther than X with a rifle, Y with a muzzy and Z with a bow?

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huntfishall1
(352 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
12:37 PM (MST)
24. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

I'd suggest more opportunity for primitive weapons. Some states already have archery and muzzleloader seasons. Success is lower and effective range is less. More people might be able to get tags (more opportunity) and hunt without overhunting the resource. Yes you can still have people launching arrows at 100 yrds and shooting muzzleloaders (with scope) at 400 yards (you will never totally eliminate the long range freaks without impacting the average joe blow hunter) but at least you get away from the cross crayon stuff that is 500 to 1000+ yards where the animal has no idea you are there and is a huge advantage to the shooter.

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Muley_73
(1659 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
01:09 PM (MST)
26. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

Silly talk mostly, be ethical and be proficient and honest with your ability. Manager yourself and all would be good.

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fortheloveofthewild
(55 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
01:21 PM (MST)
27. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

DW-
Do you know the travel time of a bullet out at 1000 yards?
let say a 7mm win mag. 162 grain ELD-X. going about 2800fps at muzzle?? (which is kinda slow)

-"mello"

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DW
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Sep-13-17, 
01:44 PM (MST)
29. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

LAST EDITED ON Sep-13-17 AT 01:50 PM (MST)

>DW-
>Do you know the travel time
>of a bullet out at
>1000 yards?
>let say a 7mm win mag.
>162 grain ELD-X. going about
>2800fps at muzzle?? (which is
>kinda slow)
>
>-"mello"


Let's use Gunwerks numbers since they're the ones leading us down this road. They say 7mm 168 grain vld with a 3100 ft per second muzzle velocity takes 1.3 seconds to go 1000 yards which I think is light. Throw in a wind or heavier air and that number changes. How long does that same bullet take to travel 300 yards?

#livelikezac

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fortheloveofthewild
(55 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
01:58 PM (MST)
30. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

LAST EDITED ON Sep-13-17 AT 02:08 PM (MST)

0.3 seconds
long range shooters know this and study it.
People that just shoot far and think "i'll give it a go", do not.
There are going to be unethical people in all types of hunting styles.
Doesn't mean we are all bad.
We are all on the same team here!
I hunt, you hunt. Lets just be friends lol

-"mello"

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DW
(8636 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
02:07 PM (MST)
31. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>0.3 seconds
>long range shooters know this and
>study it.
>People that just shoot fair, do
>not.
>There are going to be unethical
>people in all types of
>hunting styles.
>Doesn't mean we are all bad.
>
>We are all on the same
>team here!
>I hunt, you hunt. Lets just
>be friends lol
>
>
>
>-"mello"

You've missed the point.


#livelikezac

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fortheloveofthewild
(55 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
02:12 PM (MST)
33. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

Feel me in.

-"mello"

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DW
(8636 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
02:21 PM (MST)
35. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>Feel me in.
>
>-"mello"

Errors are magnified at 1000yds. You may do everything exactly right, have all your calcs perfect in your head, but as you touch it off a gust if wind at 600yds kicks up, that animal moves forward for 1.3 seconds as we agreed upon. Any number of things can happen and at 300yds they have little affect, but at 1000yds they become a disaster. Id love to mess around with it someday when I have time, it interests me. But it'll never be more than a paper game to me.


#livelikezac

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1911
(5597 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
05:08 PM (MST)
71. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>LAST EDITED ON Sep-13-17
>AT 02:08 PM (MST)

>
>0.3 seconds
>long range shooters know this and
>study it.
>People that just shoot far and
>think "i'll give it a
>go", do not.
>There are going to be unethical
>people in all types of
>hunting styles.
>Doesn't mean we are all bad.
>
>We are all on the same
>team here!
>I hunt, you hunt. Lets just
>be friends lol
>
>
>
>-"mello"


.3 seconds?? Using the muzzle velocity of 3,000 feet per second, and assuming the bullet magically traveled at terminal speed the entire 1,000 yards, could someone pleas explain the math of that bullet making a 3,000 foot journey in .3 seconds?? This is comedy. Someone explain to him what feet per second means.

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Gorilla
(69 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
01:35 PM (MST)
28. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

Sounds like you all need to build a tall Rameumptom tower where you can proclaim to the world how much of a better hunter and ethical person you are than your fellow hunters.

Or maybe a time machine that will take you back to the 1970s...

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DW
(8636 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
02:08 PM (MST)
32. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

Is this where we draw the line?


https://youtu.be/eDAcdRXu27I

#livelikezac

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upsidethehead
(34 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
02:21 PM (MST)
34. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

You guys would fight over sky color...


MY PLAN: A 45-70 and stick to terrain/cover that neutralizes their toys.

The down side is
a. It's hard work, especially the elk recovery
B. (This is a real bummer) whatever I spook is just going to be irresistible for a 20 shot volley from well stationed long rangers. Possibly making an untenable situation even worse.

It appears you fellas have no solutions either except internet pissing matches. Have at it.

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DW
(8636 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
02:23 PM (MST)
36. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

LAST EDITED ON Sep-13-17 AT 02:28 PM (MST)


>You guys would fight over sky
>color...
>
>
>MY PLAN: A 45-70 and
>stick to terrain/cover that neutralizes
>their toys.
>
> The down side is
>a. It's hard work, especially the
>elk recovery
>B. (This is a real bummer)
>whatever I spook is just
>going to be irresistible for
>a 20 shot volley from
>well stationed long rangers. Possibly
>making an untenable situation even
>worse.
>
>It appears you fellas have no
>solutions either except internet pissing
>matches. Have at it.

The solution is simple. No rangefinders, no turrets, no wind meters. Done. Right now it's legal, deal with it. I'd pick a different spot. I've never seen an elk worth dyin for.


#livelikezac

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One_Duck_Limit
(32 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
03:14 PM (MST)
40. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>LAST EDITED ON Sep-13-17
>AT 02:28 PM (MST)

>
>
>>You guys would fight over sky
>>color...
>>
>>
>>MY PLAN: A 45-70 and
>>stick to terrain/cover that neutralizes
>>their toys.
>>
>> The down side is
>>a. It's hard work, especially the
>>elk recovery
>>B. (This is a real bummer)
>>whatever I spook is just
>>going to be irresistible for
>>a 20 shot volley from
>>well stationed long rangers. Possibly
>>making an untenable situation even
>>worse.
>>
>>It appears you fellas have no
>>solutions either except internet pissing
>>matches. Have at it.
>
>The solution is simple. No rangefinders,
>no turrets, no wind meters.
>Done. Right now it's legal,
>deal with it. I'd pick
>a different spot. I've never
>seen an elk worth dyin
>for.
>
>
>#livelikezac

Let's take it a bit further and remove the scope. Open sight 30-30's for everyone.

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DW
(8636 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
03:51 PM (MST)
43. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>>LAST EDITED ON Sep-13-17
>>AT 02:28 PM (MST)

>>
>>
>>>You guys would fight over sky
>>>color...
>>>
>>>
>>>MY PLAN: A 45-70 and
>>>stick to terrain/cover that neutralizes
>>>their toys.
>>>
>>> The down side is
>>>a. It's hard work, especially the
>>>elk recovery
>>>B. (This is a real bummer)
>>>whatever I spook is just
>>>going to be irresistible for
>>>a 20 shot volley from
>>>well stationed long rangers. Possibly
>>>making an untenable situation even
>>>worse.
>>>
>>>It appears you fellas have no
>>>solutions either except internet pissing
>>>matches. Have at it.
>>
>>The solution is simple. No rangefinders,
>>no turrets, no wind meters.
>>Done. Right now it's legal,
>>deal with it. I'd pick
>>a different spot. I've never
>>seen an elk worth dyin
>>for.
>>
>>
>>#livelikezac
>
>Let's take it a bit further
>and remove the scope. Open
>sight 30-30's for everyone.

I'm deer hunting without a scope as I type this.

#livelikezac

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One_Duck_Limit
(32 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
03:06 PM (MST)
38. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>You guys would fight over sky
>color...
>
>
>MY PLAN: A 45-70 and
>stick to terrain/cover that neutralizes
>their toys.
>
> The down side is
>a. It's hard work, especially the
>elk recovery
>B. (This is a real bummer)
>whatever I spook is just
>going to be irresistible for
>a 20 shot volley from
>well stationed long rangers. Possibly
>making an untenable situation even
>worse.
>
>It appears you fellas have no
>solutions either except internet pissing
>matches. Have at it.

Have you ever had a bullet fly over your head from someone taking a long range shot in the are you hunt that has a 1000 yard shooter on every ridge? Have you witnessed with your own eyes a long range shot wound an animal and the hunter/shooter put forth zero effort to recover it?

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upsidethehead
(34 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
03:29 PM (MST)
41. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

Yes.

Yes.

And yes many times over that they gave minimal cursory effort at recovery and failed due to not putting forth effort enough and never reaching where the animal actually was when the shots were fired. Distance, stupidity, laziness or a combination?? I dunno.

One season, one party of 4, two 3 legged deer left with 4 killed. Same season same 4 hunters. one 3 legged elk for two killed.

I watched 4th buck to be killed all am.( 170'ish)hunter saw, knelt gut shot on first... kill shot was 3rd shot of third clip at maybe 300 yards.

First 3 legged escapee was 12 shot volley hunter then killed from trail a closer buck having never followed up on first.

One elk was 15-20 shot volley (it died) they bragged it was 1000 yard kill I had no way to verify truth.

I could go on but why?? I said it was ugly!

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WHT_MTNMAN
(120 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
03:02 PM (MST)
37. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>Is this where we draw the
>line?
>
>
>https://youtu.be/eDAcdRXu27I
>
>#livelikezac


Actually I believe that is exactly the point. Until we take human error out of hunting, stuff happens, doesn't matter if it is 100 or 1000 yards. When are we going to stop trying to legislate Ethics.


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WHT_MTNMAN
(120 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
03:08 PM (MST)
39. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

I'm an archery hunter first and foremost but have killed some things at stupid long range distances with a rifle all but 1 were one shot kills.
On the flip side I had a buck spin on me at 39 yards this year and ended up hitting his shoulder with an arrow and never found him.

In my opinion the problem with long range shooting isn't always the shooting abilities but the lack of ethics/morals of searching for a wounded animal. It is what happens after an animal is wounded that shows what kind of person/hunter you are.

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DW
(8636 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
04:26 PM (MST)
45. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

When are we going
>to stop trying to legislate
>Ethics.

Every game law ever written was written to legislate ethics. Imagine if there were no game laws?


#livelikezac

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Muley_73
(1659 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
04:52 PM (MST)
46. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

DW,
Untrue

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DW
(8636 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
05:51 PM (MST)
47. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>DW,
>Untrue

The vast majority.

#livelikezac

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Muley_73
(1659 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
06:29 PM (MST)
50. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

DW,
Better....but still not true

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quest
(1967 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
05:57 PM (MST)
48. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

For myself I like long range shooting but I know it's not for everyone. I'm a seasoned hunter I've paid my dues to learn the skills to get me where I'm at. I'm selective with what I'm looking for. I don't mind passing on other animals & maybe by doing so I'm helping someone else to get what they want. I haven't noticed anybody in my group who's lost a animal at long range & most shots have been 400 yards or less. The real question for me is...are long range hunters depleating older class deer(trophy bucks)? I think most states keep track on older class deer and I don't think it's a problem as of yet. What do you think?
.

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DW
(8636 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
06:02 PM (MST)
49. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>DW,
>Untrue

How bout an example.
#livelikezac

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Muley_73
(1659 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
06:38 PM (MST)
51. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

Hmmm, license purchasing may have originally been ethics based, its more of a money game now. Difference in season. I would same as many are conservation based as opposed to ethics. It is conservation or ethics or culture that dictates buck doe ratios? What controls tag numbers? Why have separate hunts for different weapons? Why unit boundaries? Why bag limits. Those are all cultural and conservation bases more than ethics.

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DW
(8636 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
07:21 PM (MST)
52. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>Hmmm, license purchasing may have originally
>been ethics based, its more
>of a money game now.
> Difference in season.
>I would same as many
>are conservation based as opposed
>to ethics. It is
>conservation or ethics or culture
>that dictates buck doe ratios?

This is not a game law.


> What controls tag numbers?

Without tags the unethical would shoot as many as they want.

>Why have separate hunts for
>different weapons?

Why unit
>boundaries?

Because without them areas would be overhunted by the unethical.


Why bag limits.

Because without them the unethical would kill 20 elk/year

>Those are all cultural and
>conservation bases more than ethics.
>

There is some conservation based laws but they're in place to keep the unethical from overhunting. Why did game laws come into existence in the first place? It was to end market hunting and save what we had left. For conservation? Sure but it changed the way we viewed an ethical way to chase game. We viewed the methods of market hunting as unethical and we put laws in place to end it.


#livelikezac

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Muley_73
(1659 posts)
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Sep-13-17, 
07:25 PM (MST)
53. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

Lol, you stated every game law. It's all good. Just another example of backing personal views with false facts.

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DW
(8636 posts)
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Sep-14-17, 
06:34 AM (MST)
54. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

Every law you just listed was written to legislate ethics.

#livelikezac

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hossblur
(1732 posts)
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Sep-14-17, 
07:43 AM (MST)
55. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

I think with range finders, cams, drones, ballistic computers, etc, we are very soon as hunters going to have to address tech.

Ya, binos, blah, blah. The amount of tags will go down as the success rates rise, simple fact. So the question should be addressed as, "do you want to keep your electronics, and hunt every few years, or be more primitive and hunt every year"?

We keep discussing this as a matter of poor ethics by lr guys. It should be viewed as what makes it so we don't cut out more tags, thus more hunters.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

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Muley_73
(1659 posts)
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Sep-14-17, 
08:06 AM (MST)
56. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

Hoss,
I agree. I'm totally ok to go primitive and I hope they do. However the bashing oflong range as most haters do it's nothing more than whining. Unwilling to actually do more than jump on the keyboard and complain.

DW,
No those are conservation based not ethically based. There is a difference. Most ethics should be self policed not set policies by law makers.

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One_Duck_Limit
(32 posts)
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Sep-14-17, 
09:24 AM (MST)
57. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

Sounds like you've got one group of shooters causing havoc in your area. If it were me and I wanted to stay in the same area I would put something hunter orange on the ridge line of the hillside I was on. Something large like an open vest spread out over a bush. They would know someone else was in the area and may think twice about taking a shot in that direction.

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quest
(1967 posts)
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Sep-14-17, 
09:33 AM (MST)
58. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

Trophy class buck would be 180 range.

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DW
(8636 posts)
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Sep-18-17, 
05:57 PM (MST)
65. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>Hoss,
>I agree. I'm totally ok
>to go primitive and I
>hope they do. However
>the bashing oflong range as
>most haters do it's nothing
>more than whining. Unwilling
>to actually do more than
>jump on the keyboard and
>complain.
>
>DW,
>No those are conservation based not
>ethically based. There is a
>difference. Most ethics should
>be self policed not set
>policies by law makers.

Why do we have limits?


#livelikezac

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GoHigher
(49 posts)
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Sep-15-17, 
12:52 PM (MST)
59. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

You all got me thinking (which is dangerous, I know)...it would be interesting if wildlife cut the number of rifle tags and increased the number of archery and muzzy tags. This might address the increased harvest rates due to long range technology leaps??? Probably would improve hunter satisfaction as well (I gave up rifle hunting the general season in Utah due to waaaayyyy too many hunters).

Just my $0.02

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hossblur
(1732 posts)
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Sep-17-17, 
10:39 PM (MST)
60. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

>You all got me thinking (which
>is dangerous, I know)...it would
>be interesting if wildlife cut
>the number of rifle tags
>and increased the number of
>archery and muzzy tags.
>This might address the increased
>harvest rates due to long
>range technology leaps??? Probably
>would improve hunter satisfaction as
>well (I gave up rifle
>hunting the general season in
>Utah due to waaaayyyy too
>many hunters).
>
>Just my $0.02

Honestly, I think this is the way we are headed. The increased success rate via tech, cannot be supported with population numbers. Otherwise more and more guys get cut out to support the higher success.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

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wstrntines
(819 posts)
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Sep-17-17, 
11:54 PM (MST)
61. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

LAST EDITED ON Sep-17-17 AT 11:58 PM (MST)

With technology we have become very good at killing trophy game. I do believe it has and will continue to have an affect on age class and tag numbers the better it gets. I am no 1000 yard shooter I don't own the tech. to do so I also love bowhunting so much that I don't do much rifle hunting. I think alot of guys think that if there scope range finder, sight tape on their archery sight ect. is set up for it they can do so. Bottom line bowhunting or rifle hunting alot can happen at greater distances. And there needs to be a great deal of practice. And some people are really good at it. I'm not too much in favor of LR shooting it would be cool to learn and do it once. But everything I have ever killed has been in bow range. And if I was putting in for an early rifle elk tag I would much rather call bulls in my face than shoot them at large distances. I just don't know how you could enforce yardage restrictions with hunting it's he said she said and how do you prove the distance. And as stated in this topic the effort you put into recovery is a very big deal. Too many people give up to easy

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BrowningRage
(3068 posts)
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Sep-18-17, 
12:12 PM (MST)
62. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

When I was about 14, my dad had a regular rifle, general season elk tag. We were hunting in the Uintahs. There was good snow on the ground. From a dirt road we traveled regularly, we spotted a herd of elk 800 yards or more up on a burned ridge. My dad and I left my grandpa in the truck and we started our way up a lower ridge to close the distance to about 300 yards (assuming the elk, including a big herd bull stayed there)... As we started nearing the spot where we wanted to crest over for a peak if the elk were still there, we suddenly hear shooting from below us, back towards the dirt road. 8 or 10 shots later, we watched as the herd of elk headed up and into the thick timber away from us. Through the binos, we watched as a few guys got back into their Ford Bronco, not 100 yards from where my grandpa sat in my dad's truck. We were in full view of the vehicles, in full hunter orange, and yet, they shot over us at the elk. Most disgraceful thing I've ever been a part of while big game hunting.

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24

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wstrntines
(819 posts)
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Sep-18-17, 
01:24 PM (MST)
63. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

BrowningRage my wife and I had a similar situation on her otc hunt last year in the uintahs. Same kind of thing we watched a herd in the AM and waited there until evening and the bull fed out and someone in the next canyon was launching hailmary's every time I'd get the turrets and bi-pod ready the bull would keep moving and he ran over top of the ridge. Public land hunting can definitely be tough.

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DW
(8636 posts)
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Sep-18-17, 
05:50 PM (MST)
64. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

So you were ready to lobe as well and were beatin to the punch?


#livelikezac

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wstrntines
(819 posts)
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Sep-18-17, 
10:10 PM (MST)
66. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

We weren't going to lob anything, it was gonna be about a 400 yd. shot I wouldn't consider that long range. I consider 500+ to be long range for me and my wife. 400 was well within the wife's skill set. And my wife clearly said she wouldn't shoot over 500 yds. because she did not feel comfortable with taking a shot of that distance. Beat to the punch yes, but I'd rather her wait for the animal to stop and get a clean shot than shoot 9 missed shots like the party in the canyon below.

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DW
(8636 posts)
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Sep-18-17, 
10:27 PM (MST)
67. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

Agreed. Why do you need a turret for 400yds? Its what thru me.


#livelikezac

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wstrntines
(819 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
01:34 PM (MST)
68. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

Because he made it further than 500 and I dialed it in case she was comfortable to shoot and in hopes he may stop. But he didn't stop and she wasn't willing to shoot further if needed, sorry I guess I should have been more clear in explanation of the scenario.

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2_Point
(1223 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
01:51 PM (MST)
69. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

So you were ready to lob but were beaten to the punch.

Yep yep yep we should give more tags to scoped muzzle loaders and one hundred plus yard bow shooters.
more lobbing of muzzle loader bullets and arrows are just what we need.

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wstrntines
(819 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
04:14 PM (MST)
70. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

No 2 point i set it up for the situation of more distance if she was comfortable she wasn't and I will say my wife is much more of a marksman with a rifle than I am and I realise that when it's her tag I let her use her judgement I'm just there to help her when an animals down and she put in a lot of time behind the gun. Glad you were there though and know so much of what my wife's hunting skill level is.

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txhunter58
(5739 posts)
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Oct-01-17, 
02:49 PM (MST)
73. "RE: Competing with "long rangers""

The problem with long range shooting is not the 1 in 100 people who actually has the skills and the practice time to make the shot. It is the 10% that hear about how cool it is to shoot an elk at 800 yards and decide, if they can do it, so can I.

That gives you a whole other set of problems than bow hunters who thinks they should be able to shoot an animal at 90 yards

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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