Air Rifle Recommendations

Got two muzzleloaders sold, two more to go, so................... I'm out prowling around, looking at air-rifles. I'm only interested in an air rifle that will hold a 2" pattern at 50 yards, somewhere between 900 to 1000 ft per second.

My current research is into the Hatsen"s. Want to stay under a $1,000, but I see some of the Hatsen's are under $500 and I'm certainly not opposed having some cash left over for accessories.

I have no experience with the Hatsen's, just have a few friends that have one and they like them.

I'd appreciate any first hand experience with the Hatsen's and which model you have used. Also, if you have used other manufacture's air rifle that are reliably accurate, out to 50 yards................... your recommendation would be great. I'm open to investigate any suggestions.

Don't really want to order one from over seas, but if they are compelling enough, I might change my mind about that.

Thank you, gentlemen and ladies.

DC

I Got a feeling there's gonna be some missing house cats soon!

I'd never shot someone's house cat BC, but I'm still working on that launcher/landing strip idea eel got started a year or two ago.

Eurasian doves are expanding like..... cougar/coyote populations, around my back yard. There's more than house cat's in and out of here. An........ my accuracy has generally gone down the tubes, over the last ten to fifteen years, I just never shoot much anymore. Rarely point the rifle at anything. I enjoy shooting it and I don't want to drive to the range everyday, I want to poke the barrel out the back door and cut loose!

I had a Rugar pellet rifle but it wasn't consistent past 15 yards. Wasn't getting the job done.

DC

Checked into it myself a few times over the years Lumpy!

Just couldn't ever justify spending as much on an air gun as a Rifle!

One thing I'd do is check the Trigger/Trigger Pull before buying any Air Rifle!

JUDAS,I've seen/used some with Dandy Triggers!

I Think Hatsans have adjustable Triggers!

Also:

Certain Air Guns can destroy a decent Scope!

They got a different kick to some of them!

(((RAZZIN Ya on the Neighbors Cat!)))










It Won't Be Long and a 22" PISSCUTTER will be known as a Trophy that will be put on the Wall!

Would you consider a .45 Air Rifle Lumpy?

I just shoot my old Gamo. But I have been looking around. There is a newer company that has been sending me info. From Mapleton Utah. Utah Air guns. Check out this air gun :

I have a pretty cheap break barrel Winchester 1000. I needed a little more accuracy and punch to take care of squirrels and skunks.



I bought a Benjamin Trail NP2 in .22 last year.



over the course of several months of owning the rifle I did a trigger job that consisted of trying several different springs. This rifle is quiet, very quiet. If you need something that is super quiet this is the one. With 14.3 gr Crosman Premium domed they run about 765 fps.




I ordered a couple dozen pellets.I got it to where it would shoot about 1" at 25 yards. This group was at 30 yards.



What I would consider not that great but I killed a lot of rock chucks, skunks, and squirrels with it. This is just a few. The one I am holding that had the pups was shot through the shoulders at 40 yards. This gun had enough punch.














I bought a Hatsan 125TH springer in .177 cal.
That rifle was loud. I never chronographed this gun. I shot a lot of pellets through it. They have a welded on rail for the scope. After about 300 pellets the rail came off the gun. It was never accurate not even close. I sent it back because the Hatsan's in my opinion are crap.
I wanted a springer with more accuracy. I didn't want a PCP. For me to use a PCP I would have to have a pump. I don't have anywhere to fill a bottle. So I would have to use a hand pump and fill the gun to 3000 or 4000 PSI with a hand pump. Or buy compressors to get it done. Now you have a 500 to 1000 dollar rifle. Then you have a compressor that goes from 800 to 1500 for the compressor.

So I decided to get the best springer made and see if they were really all that and a bag of chips.
I ordered the rifle that has won the most Field Target championships. I got the Air Arms TX200.
This one has a Walnut stock and is right handed.



These rifles are gushed on about how beautiful they are. Well they are that. The stock is very nice and the bluing is very, very, deep and beautiful. The checkering is a little different for us in the states. The barrel is made in Germany, the stock is Italian Walnut and they are made in England. The trigger is amazing. It is a two stage trigger that has a 1 pound pull. It is simply amazing compared to the Trail at 8 pounds factory and 4 pounds after I worked on it. The trigger is a huge part of an accurate rifle.



When I first got the TX200 I installed a
Leepers 3-12x44 AO compact scope. I was not wild about that scope. There just wasn't enough room on the scope to make eye relief adjustments. You can see the scope is short.




Right off the bat I felt that the rifle was super accurate. This is a 20 yard group with the first pellet I tried.



I shot some great groups with the Air Arms pellets. This one is 30 yards.




The problem with them was the skirts were very soft and damaged super easy. I have to straighten the skirts out on every pellet to get that kind of accuracy. I settled for the Crosman premium domed pellet. It was real accurate too.




I tried several different pellets in this rifle and so far the best I have shot were the Air arms but the crosman is close behind. I prefer it because it is easier to hunt with.








Then all of a sudden my groups opened up and I was not sure what it was. This was a 30 yard group that just opened up.



One thing that I have found out is some tins of pellets are just better. Some if it is size some is uniformity. Even in a good tin of pellets you get a flyer for no reason. Well that group made me think I needed a better scope. So I talked to several companies including Leupold and Vortex. I decided on a Vortex Crossfire II 6-18x44AO.



I am still not sure I like the scope mount but I know that I do think this scope has a better chance to get some more accuracy from the rifle.
This was one of my first 5 shot groups at 20 yards.



On this day I was shooting over the back of my truck.



Here is a 20 yard group.




This was a 30 yard group. The first pellet went low right. I went ahead and shot a 10 shot group on this one. The others were 5 shot. I wanted to see if it was just a flyer or what. I honestly believe it was just the pellet.




On this group it is 50 yards. The first shot was at the bottom of the paper. I adjusted the hold to the top of the paper and shot the group.




This was my first attempt at 50 yard groups. I honestly think I can do much better than that first group.

The TX200 is not a 1000 FPS rifle. To be honest a rifle over 1000 fps is a magnum. I just don't think that is where it's at. It seems that when a rifle is pushing a pellet over 1000 fps they are just not as stable. Also when you get a rifle like my Hatsan they push the pellet so fast that they crack from breaking the sound barrier. The Hatsan tore it's self apart. It is my opinion that what I wanted was a super accurate rifle that I could make head shots with. Not a super powerful rifle that I was lucky to hit the body. The TX200 is only pushing the pellets out at 650 to 750 fps depending on the pellets. That is plenty fast enough to kill any varmint. I have shot several birds with body shots and several squirrels with body shots with the Crosman domes. They punch in and work for a round nose. I mostly go for head shots now that I have the Vortex scope.

A lot of guys get hung up on speed to kill. If you have a non magnum accurate rifle with a scope that has mildots and an adjustable objective lens you can place those shots where you want them. I was caught up in the magnum springer fad and I am now out of that.

Break barrel rifles can be accurate but it takes a lot to make them accurate. A 250 dollar gun is not going to be a tack driver. A sub 200 dollar gun is just a waste of money in my opinion.

Under lever rifles and side lever rifles are where the accuracy is at as far as barrels go.
There are several lever style guns that I would be interested in.
I am going to give a list of the guns that I find interesting, and like a gun writer once said only accurate rifles are interesting.

For the cheap guns
Gamo Accu .22- This is a highly rated rifle for being as cheep as it is. I have heard very good things as far as accuracy goes. I have also heard that they trigger is not that great.

Browning Leverage. I have also heard pretty good things about this rifle. I have never handled one.


Stepping up a notch.

Diana Mauser K98- I have heard a lot of good things about this one and I like the look.

Diana 470 Target HunterTH. Another one that has good reviews.

Diana 460 magnum- I hate magnum springers but I would honestly try this one. It is probably the most powerful of the list I have.

Walther LGU. This gun is often said to be almost as accurate as the Air Arms TX200.

Weihrauch has several under lever rifles that are probably all very good. I have heard very good things about most of them.

The Weihrauch HW97k is probably the top of the line. in the wood version it is probably one of the most expensive springers made. These rifles come in differnt stocks and shapes. They are good rifles.
That said they are not winning as many Field Target events as the TX200 is.

Beeman has the same line as Weihrauch. They are called Beeman HW97K. I have no doubt that they are equally as well made.

Finally I have Air Arms.
Air arms has two TX200's. The MKIII and the HC. the HC is a hunter carbine. the MKIII is a full length version. That is what mine is.
Both come in .22 and .177 cal. These are the real deal for accuracy. I have no doubt that these rifles are more accurate than I am. I have plenty of room to get better with mine.

Air Arms Pro Sport. In my opinion this is probably the most elegant under lever rifle made. The accuracy with this rifle is equal to the TX200. I think the reason not that many are used in competition is due to the increased cocking effort with the different style lever. It is a beautiful rifle.

The one thing I wanted was a rifle that I could work on. I didn't want to take this rifle to a gun smith. The TX200 and the Pro Sport are the easiest to take down and no special tools are needed to deal with the spring. It is an easy rifle to take apart, clean and lube the spring. Here is a video on stripping one down. It is easy to do.

https://youtu.be/fg2U78vl67I

I didn't add any Hatsans to the list. There is one that I am somewhat interested in. The Hatsan 135 .30 cal. Even at that I am only interested if I can shoot one first. I don't like Hatsan. The triggers are crap and they are just cheap made junk.

There you have it my .02 worth of useless info.

Lumpy, you need to ask this question on a waterfowl forum. You need to ask who has the most bands, and odds are that guy is an expert with a pellet gun.

That reminds me......

Back when I first got a job in the sawmill I was working in shipping (packaging and tallying lumber in the warehouse) and we had a terrible city pigeon problem. They would roost and even nest in the rafters. I approached the owner one day and volunteered to do pigeon control during my spare time. He thought that was a wonderful idea and even bought an air rifle for me to use. I put a scope on it, but for the life of me I don't remember the brand of rifle...ugh! Sorry DC. It was very accurate too.

I shot at least 100 pigeons over the next few weeks (in my spare time, of course.

One day I shot a pigeon and it fluttered to the ground just as the owner was giving a tour to a bunch of dignitaries from Russia. They came around the corner to see a pigeon flopping around in the walkway. Of course I went and hid.

We had a good laugh about it later.

Sorry....what was your question DC?

Thank you gentlemen. Excellent review IdahoRon, that was a lot to digest but well put together. Field experience is where the rubber meets the road.

PT, cows eat pellets, maybe I should check on the Farm Bureau forum too.
;-) "How fast can a 900 lb steer shot an alfalfa pellet."

DC

I grew up shooting Benjamins and Sheridans.

How about a integrally suppressed 22? I know the $200 tax stamp sucks and the six month wait, but I love mine. As quiet as red Ryder and nobody even knows I'm shooting

I bought a 25 cal Benjamin Marauder. Great trigger a very accurate. It sucks worse than you think it will to pump up. It is fairly loud. Both of my boys head shot turkeys with it this past spring and squirrels within 70 yds or so are in trouble

LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-18 AT 09:04PM (MST)[p]After reading all of your comments and talking to some local "pellet" shooters, the duck hunters and the local Farm Bureau, I'm going to take IdahoRon's recommendation and order the Air Arms TX200 MkIII.

I really don't want to fight a PCP for the same reasons IR stated, I'd rather not spend another $500/$1000 for the tanks and recharging compressors etc. if I don't have to. And I live out near the boondocks so accessing someone else's stuff is not going to be practicable.

I'm going to give the spring system route an honest try, if I can't make it work, I'll sell it an try something else.

foundation, I'd go with the .22 long rifle route but it's still a fire arm and while it may be very quiet, which I want to avoid. Mostly I just want to do more shooting, for fun and to stay tuned up for other fire arms shooting. If it was more about killing and less about target shooting, a quiet .22 LR would be perfect. But those dang doves are going to get a butt kicking, one way or the other.

Thanks everybody, lots of help given and a couple of good stories for good measure and ........... all appreciated. As usual, MMer's have a wealth of knowledge and many are willing to share. That aspect of this forum is a tremendous benefit to those who participate.

DC

Sound decision lump!


#livelikezac

You are starting off with a great rifle. The problem with that is you won't know the misery of owning a rifle that is lucky to shoot groups the size of a grapefruit at 20 yards.

All spring guns have a lot of vibration the TX200 is no exception but the weight helps. That means checking the screws in the gun regularly like every time you shoot at least for a while. I took mine apart and used Blue Permatex to lock the screws. I used mineral spirits to clean the screws and threads but I didn't get right. The last time I shot the screws were loose. This is a part of maintenance that can't be ignored with any spring rifle. Again mine went from shooting this



to shooting this



You got to check the screws often.

I would like to tell you about cleaning too. Air rifles are not like powder burners. You don't have to clean the barrels like a regular rifle.
When you do clean the barrel make sure to use a pull through system instead of a rod.

The air arms barrel is a shroud that covers baffles that cover the actual barrel. The barrel would be easy to damage with a solid cleaning rod.

Air Arms provides scope stop holes in the top of the receiver. If you get a scope mount that has the scope stop screw you clamp the mount then tighten the scope stop. This keeps the mount from sliding under the recoil. Some mounts don't have the stop some do. I have only used the ones that have them. Some guys claim that you don't need them. When you read about a guy saying you don't need them you have to remember that most of these guns are in England. Their rifles are low power guns. They have to keep the guns under 12 foot pounds of energy.
The TX200's here in the USA are the HP or high power version. Our guns will have more twang and recoil than the guns in England.

They are heavy guns. Mine is over 10 pounds. This weekend I installed a sling to the rifle. I used a Uncle Mikes 1051-2 QD super swivel that fits a Marlin 1894C.

When shooting any spring rifle the gun recoils forward. This is the opposite of powder burners. Because of that all air rifles tend to be more hold sensitive than regular rifles are.
When I am shooting targets on a bench I use sand bags but for the front bag I put my hand between the bag and the rifle. Most spring guns like an artillery hold. I lay my hand in the bag and lay the gun on my hand.I keep my grip loose and let it just slide on my palm.
If you lay the gun flat on the bags it will still shoot good but the point of impact will be a little different when not using the bags.

I built a set of shooting sticks for my muzzleloader. I built another set just for my Air rifles. My sticks allow for the gun to recoil AKA Swing during the shot.The sticks rest on a leather strap which mimics the artillery hold the rifle shoots very well with this type of stick. I have two sizes one for sitting and short kneeling the other one for taller kneeling or sitting in a chair.













I want to talk again about scopes.
Not all scopes are spring rifle rated. There are some very cheap rifle scopes. The Leapers UTG is a well known scope for air rifles. I am not that big of a fan. They are an okay at best scope. I have heard good things about Hawke.

This is the thing I wanted. I wanted a powerful scope. I wanted to see the hole in the target or the eyeball I wanted the pellet to go in. I wanted at least a 3-12x40 with an objective lens that would sight in to 10 yards. A guy might get by with sighting in to 20 or 25 but that is the shooters call there. I wanted mine to go to 10 yards for focus. Speaking of focus I wanted a side knob for the adjustable objective. This complicates the search even more. Another thing I wanted was mildots or some kind of hash marks or lines to be able to use as a sight in reference for longer shots. I also wanted the scope to take adjustments and hold POI when the power ring was changed.

Like I said before I talked to Leupold. I am a Leupold fan boy. They have two scopes that will focus that close. One is a rim fire scope and the other is a nice large scope. The scopes with EFR are the ones that will adjust to air rifle ranges. The VX-3i 6.5-20x40mm EFR CDS Target would be a great scope but they don't have mildots, and the scope is as expensive or more than the rifle. The rimfire scopes are just not big enough. For me I hate to say Leupold didn't have a scope I could use.

I did look at Hawke but I just didn't know anything about them. I hear the scopes are good.

I talked to Vortex a few times going over scopes. They had a few that had Mildots or lines. An adjustable objective lens. Large magnification.
The one I got was the Vortex Crossfire II 6-18x44AO w/Dead hold BDC.
So far I think it will be a good scope.

The things I like about the scope.
#1- It is a powerful scope. Seeing the spot I want to hit is easy. Shooting a pellet into another pellet hole happens all the time.
#2- It seems to take adjustments without the need to tap or bump the scope.
#3- it focuses well down to 10 yards.
#4- the scope has a no fault 100% warranty. I asked a dozen times are you sure you warranty a scope on a spring powered air rifle? they said in writing they did. I hope I don't have to find out.
#5- the turrets have the ability to be zeroed and they have caps. I like that a lot to keep them from getting bumped.

Things I don't like.
#1- The scope is not super clear above 12 power. Up to and including 12 power it is clear. It feels like it wants more light to me.
#2- The lines on the crosshairs are called Dead hold BDC. They are on the side wires and bottom wires. The top wire does not have them. If a guy is shooting up in trees you NEED the mildots or marks on the top wire as well. Lets say you have a 20 yard first zero. If your shooting to the top of a walnut tree 25 to 30 yards out I need to hold low. I don't have a line to use as a reference. That is a deal breaker that I wish I would have known at the time.
#3- the Adjustable objective works and focuses the scope. The yardages marked on the AO lens do not match actual yardage.

The Jury is still out if changing the power ring changes the POI. At first it seemed like it stayed. The last time I shot I zoomed it up when I shot out to 50 yards. The rifle didn't have as much drop as it should have. I will need to check that again.

If I were to shop for scopes for this rifle again I think I would look at the Hawke a little closer. A lot of air rifle shooters like them and they seem to have a good following. I will have to investigate that more.

>LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-18
>AT 09:04?PM (MST)
>
>After reading all of your comments
>and talking to some local
>"pellet" shooters, the duck hunters
>and the local Farm Bureau,
>I'm going to take IdahoRon's
>recommendation and order the Air
>Arms TX200 MkIII.
>
>I really don't want to fight
>a PCP for the same
>reasons IR stated, I'd rather
>not spend another $500/$1000 for
>the tanks and recharging compressors
>etc. if I don't have
>to. And I live
>out near the boondocks so
>accessing someone else's stuff is
>not going to be practicable.
>
>
>I'm going to give the spring
>system route an honest try,
>if I can't make it
>work, I'll sell it an
>try something else.
>
>foundation, I'd go with the .22
>long rifle route but it's
>still a fire arm and
>while it may be very
>quiet, which I want to
>avoid. Mostly I just
>want to do more shooting,
>for fun and to stay
>tuned up for other fire
>arms shooting. If it
>was more about killing and
>less about target shooting, a
>quiet .22 LR would be
>perfect. But those dang
>doves are going to get
>a butt kicking, one way
>or the other.
>
>Thanks everybody, lots of help given
>and a couple of good
>stories for good measure and
>........... all appreciated. As
>usual, MMer's have a wealth
>of knowledge and many are
>willing to share. That
>aspect of this forum is
>a tremendous benefit to those
>who participate.
>
>DC

Come on DC you don't need expensive tanks and compressors to shoot a PCP rifle. Lewis and Clark did it ! Just get a hand pump. Shooting a 22 rifle in the city limits can get you in a lot of trouble. So I think you need to stick with a air gun. If the springer doesn't work for you. You can always get a pcp rifle later. Getting good groups with a springer consistently may be tough. But I will wait and learn from your experience. I still think the pcp maybe the way to go for consistencted accuracy.

Excellent tutorial idahorn! Lump one of the key takeaways is artillery hold! Youll save yourself alot of time and frustration using this method!


#livelikezac

Lumpy just wants venison all winter long from the deer in his back yard. After the pellet gun, he will get a silencer and night vison. A good shot in they eye should do it.

....... spoken from the voice of experience, I presume. So....... based on your experience then, you believe an eye shot is better than an ear shot? ;-)

IdahoRon, thanks again, for all of your experience and detailed explanations. I will keep them so I can refer to them when I get going.

I've owned a few air rifle in the past and understand the heavy triggers, the jump of the spring and a few of the things you mentioned but I'm a long ways from knowing the finer details and tuning the your talking about. I hope you'll keep sharing your knowledge going forward.

I'll let you know when my rifle arrives and I have you over for spring venison steaks when I get it all figured out.




DC

The four points go to the neighbors and you get the spikes. They're better eating anyway.

Can't wait to shoot it. Do your research, I might want to buy one. Ya know there is a company that is making a Girandoni Air Rifle today. It might be in your price range.

I'll call you and we'll have some fun. You should get one too. Why no? Shooting is shooting, who cares what it will or won't kill, if it's accurate, it's fun. Yes?

Hell, CB we're no longer killing deer or elk anymore anyway, what do we need the big bore stuff for anymore?

My lodge poles rotted away years ago, the canvas is ripped nearly in half, and my leathers fit me like a speedo, so what do I need six muzzleloaders for?

The two old ones you built in the 1970's are plenty good. I killed more deer with the old 50 cal. with the G.R.R.W barrel, than any rifle I've ever owned. Glad to be getting rid of the Knights and the Whites and A. & H. I'll never sell the old Hawken or the Kentucky, for any amount of money. They are family heirlooms at my house.

I've been wanting to do this for the last ten years. Tried some of the cheaper "pellet" guns, and could not get consistent accuracy. Figured I try stepping up to the next level.

Getting those muzzleloaders sold has put wind under my wings, let's get it done.

DC

I have posted a bit on air gun shooting and hunting but I don't think many guys here are into it. If you have questions about your Trex Let me know, I would be glad to help if I can.
I have been looking at a new mount. You might be interested in it. I am thinking about changing mine.

https://youtu.be/lZCXnp01G0k

Yes, a highly accurate rifle is a hoot, even if it's shooting Bumble Bees off a Dandylion flower from 30 yards.

I can do that.

Plus I really like shooting a nice looking rifle.

That's a beautty and based on your personality, I'll bet a dollar you keep it looking like new until the day you sell it or it become a gunsafe Princess. I envy folks like you. My stuff looks like it's been drug down a gravel road, two weeks after I purchase it!

Question, if you know. I'm a left eye dominate shooter, will the new MKIIi. Right Hand accommodate a south paw. The LH looks to be priced $200 more. :-(

DC

I don't think a right hand stock would work well left handed.

LAST EDITED ON Jan-15-18 AT 08:41PM (MST)[p]>That's a beautty and based
>on your personality, I'll bet
>a dollar you keep it
>looking like new until the
>day you sell it or
>it become a gunsafe Princess.
> I envy folks like
>you. My stuff looks
>like it's been drug down
>a gravel road, two weeks
>after I purchase it!

>
>DC


Actually I am more like you than you think. I have to take pictures before the damage.
Actually I took it hunting this weekend for Squirrels and doves. I didn't see many squirrels but I did get a chance to see how the sling was going to work. I liked it a lot. I headed into the brush by the river.



I came out to a old house



After that spot I went to another and ended up on the river. I carried the gun with the sling for several miles and was very happy with the sling swivels.

I've misjudging at lot of things. I figured you were from Idaho. Those pictures don't look like they are from Idaho this weekend and I don't think you'd be hunting either squirrels or doves in mid January. Where's home IdahoRon?

DC

I love my old Crosmen .177. I have had that gun for
over 50 years. I got it for my birthday when I was 13, and have killed 100's of critters with it. The old Sheridan Pump was also a beast in the day. It was like shooting a .22 rifle, and super accurate.

>I've misjudging at lot of things.
> I figured you were
>from Idaho. Those pictures
>don't look like they
>are from Idaho this weekend
>and I don't think you'd
>be hunting either squirrels or
>doves in mid January.
> Where's home IdahoRon?
>
>DC

I am from the Twin Falls area in Idaho. South Central section.
Yep I was hunting Squirrels and Collard doves actually it was 1-14-18. The area I walked by the river has Rock Chucks and I thought I might see one with temps around 50 degrees. I have been sitting on a bait pile trying to kill a skunk that keeps coming around my house.
Normally I would be chasing Chukars and I did last friday. But the roads into the desert are a mess and I didn't want to get stuck.

The eurasian and squirrels have holed up in so. central Utah, IR. You got hardy critters up there.

Apparently the eurasians don't migrate but there aren't near as many squawking and flopping through my pines this time of year.

DC

My house full of boys used up a Benjaman .177 (I think) over about 25 years, don't know were it ever ended up, just stopped showing up one day. They had others but the little Benjie was their favorite. Wouldn't mind having that little shooter back, it was kind of part of the family back then.

DC

>The eurasian and squirrels have holed
>up in so. central Utah,
>IR. You got hardy
>critters up there.
>
>Apparently the eurasians don't migrate but
>there aren't near as many
>squawking and flopping through my
>pines this time of year.
>
>
>DC

At the Mill where I work there are about 100 that live there all winter. But they are getting smart to me.