Trump Maintains Elephant Import Ban

grizzly · Jan 27, 2018

In an interview with Piers Morgan set to air Sunday night in the U.K., President Donald Trump used the word ?terrible? to describe the initial decision last year by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to overturn an Obama era ban on the import of elephant trophies.

Trump also says he does not believe the substantial fees that hunters pay to hunt elephants and other species actually go toward conservation efforts, as is often claimed, and instead are pocketed by government officials in other countries.

Trump confirms that the ban on importing elephant trophies from the African nations of Zimbabwe and Zambia will remain in place. That was not clear after he initially put the ban reversal on hold, pending further study.

The Fish and Wildlife Service, overseen by Interior Department Secretary Ryan Zinke, announced on Nov. 15 that it was rescinding an Obama administration ban on the import of elephant trophies from Zimbabwe and Zambia, saying money generated by the hunting goes toward conservation efforts.

?Legal, well-regulated sport hunting as part of a sound management program can benefit the conservation of certain species by providing incentives to local communities to conserve the species and by putting much-needed revenue back into conservation,? the service said.
But the announcement on reversing the ban was met with scathing criticism from both the left and right. Powerful conservative media figures like Michael Savage and Laura Ingraham criticized Trump for the decision and called on him to keep the ban in place. Talk show host Ellen DeGeneres announced a campaign to persuade Trump to maintain the ban that quickly went viral through the hashtag #BeKindToElephants.
On Nov. 17 Trump tweeted, ?Put big game trophy decision on hold until such time as I review all conservation facts. Under study for years. Will update soon with Secretary Zinke. Thank you!?

The announcement that he was putting the reversal on hold shocked many, primarily because his two eldest sons, Donald Jr. and Eric, are both avid hunters and have been criticized for hunting wildlife in Africa.

Trump also is closely aligned with the National Rifle Association, which strongly lobbies for trophy hunting rights. Two days after he made that announcement, he tweeted, ?Big-game trophy decision will be announced next week but will be very hard pressed to change my mind that this horror show in any way helps conservation of Elephants or any other animal.?

That tweet led some to believe the ban would remain in place but no further announcement was made as promised.
In his comments to Morgan, Trump said, ?Well, I changed it,? referring to reversing the move to end the ban.

He continued: ?I didn't want elephants killed and stuffed and have the tusks brought back into this [country] and people can talk all they want about preservation and all of the things that they're saying where money goes towards ― well, money WAS going ― in that case, going to a government which was probably taking the money, OK? I turned that order around. You know, that was an order. I totally turned it around. Were you shocked that I did it??

Morgan: ?I was surprised.?

Trump: ?I thought it was terrible. That was done by a very high level government person. As soon as I heard about it, I turned it around. That same day ― not even a day went by. No, I was not believing in [the conservation argument].?

The interview with Morgan is Trump?s first major sit-down interview with a non-U.S. television network and airs at 10 p.m. Sunday on ITV.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...759e4b01fbbefb25ea5?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000618

Tristate · Jan 28, 2018

He just killed tens of thousands of elephants.

You can't believe how bad the politics of wildlife in Africa is getting and organized commercial hunting is the only chance of survival for %95 of it's wildlife.

The more the US medels in it the worse it gets.

Vanilla · Jan 29, 2018

Nobody is saying you can't still hunt elephants. The reversal of the order is simply that you can't import your kill back to the United States. Lots of Americans were hunting elephants when the ban was in place. Lots will continue to do so going forward.

Having lived in Zimbabwe, I'm a bit torn. I know that when I was there it was clear the government of Zimbabwe wanted the US to allow elephant imports, but the Zimbabwean government also may have been one of the most corrupt governments on the planet. With the recent change in the head of the government it will be interesting to see if that brings meaningful changes, or if corruption just gets a new face.

When I was in Zimbabwe the population of elephants was on a steady incline and had been for years. It appears to have peaked and now is declining somewhat. I do not believe I would ever want to hunt one myself, but as long as the population is healthy enough to take it, I don't mind that others do at all. Go and do your thing! I can see both sides of this one.

grizzly · Jan 29, 2018

>I do
>not believe I would ever
>want to hunt one myself,
>but as long as the
>population is healthy enough to
>take it, I don't mind
>that others do at all.
>Go and do your thing!
>I can see both sides
>of this one.

As long as the hunting is ecologically sound and legal, I see no reason to ban the importation of the animal. That becomes a slippery slope (see BC Grizzly hunt ban) when decisions are based on emotion and political winds.

This discussion isn't about the hunting, just the importation. Once the elephant is dead, it doesn't care, nor do the remaining elephants, where the tusks end up. Certain areas have limited elephants, others literally are above carrying-capacity.

I know several people that have shot elephants, every one proudly displays the tusks in their trophy room. The point of this law is to limit the demand for elephant hunts from American hunters.

It's sad to see yet another politician (one that people will still say is friendly to hunters) make a political decision rather than a scientific one. I bet that changed some Show Specials for the outfitters at SCI this week ;-)

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News

Tristate · Jan 29, 2018

LAST EDITED ON Jan-29-18 AT 05:38PM (MST)[p]Hey vanilla, If I tell you that you can no longer take a single piece of a mule deer home with you after you kill it what do you think the demand iS going to be like? Now ad on that a mule deer hunting costs 40k per buck and there is four days of travel each time you go hunt. Now how many people are going to hunt deer. The fact is the vast majority of the world's hunters reside in the United States. Why do you think the SCI convention is held here????? When the US locked down elephant imports they crushed the market in those countries.

Now if you have actually lived in Zim you would know if the corrupt government isn't making money anymore from skimming money obtained legally through the parks department YOU SHOULD KNOW HOW THEY WILL MAKE THE MONEY!

Here is the portion nobody is talking about. USFWS IS NOT ISSUING ANY WILDLIFE IMPORT PERMITS RIGHT NOW FOR ANY ANIMAL. Not just elephant. None. Zero. Zilch. Nothing. In the past two months they have become the most well funded antihunting org in the world. They are lying to the ctizenry also. They in print are stating they are issuing permits but the offices are not. No one can even tell if Zinke is aware of this.

Quit thinking this is some rich persons problem and it doesn't effect every day Africans. They are screwing all of us and the elephants are going to get massacred.

grizzly · Jan 29, 2018

>Here is the portion nobody is
>talking about. USFWS IS
>NOT ISSUING ANY WILDLIFE IMPORT
>PERMITS RIGHT NOW FOR ANY
>ANIMAL. Not just elephant.
>None. Zero. Zilch.
> Nothing. In the
>past two months they have
>become the most well funded
>antihunting org in the world.
> They are lying to
>the ctizenry also. They
>in print are stating they
>are issuing permits but the
>offices are not. No
>one can even tell if
>Zinke is aware of this.

I'd love more information on this. I haven't been to Africa so I'm not sure of the details on import permits. Does this apply to ALL animals from out of the country (even Mexico) or only certain protected species?

My friend was just notified today from his broker that his African animals just hit US soil. Would those have needed import permits to be granted?

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News

Tristate · Jan 29, 2018

It depends on what species he has in the crate. Any single animal which USFWS has to review an application for and sign a permit for, isn't happening. If your friend was issued his permit or permits before this shutdown they are honoring them and clearing them once they get here.

If he has a permit application in, and no issued permit, all of his trophies will be sitting in storage. Warehouse fees at airports are outrageously expensive. Many clients will probably just abandon their shipments all together instead of paying the airlines for storage.

Vanilla · Jan 29, 2018

You?re right. You caught me red handed. I totally made up that I lived in Zimbabwe or that I know anything about this. Man, you're so smart. How do you do it?

Tristate · Jan 29, 2018

Vanilla,
quit taking up for the gubmint because they pay you. Quit being oblivious to the reality of the problems we are all facing, or get out of man town.

hossblur · Jan 30, 2018

LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-18 AT 07:25AM (MST)[p]Well, after nearly 5000 posts the REAL Tristate has joined us. Not the usual troll, blowhard. All it took was his livelihood taking a hit, who could have guessed.

So, TRI. What's SCI gonna do about it? Those same rich dudes attending the show, and dropping huge coin chasing elephants, are scratching huge checks to the Republicans. Where's big, tough John Cornyn? Where's the Waldrips? Where are all these big time, larger than life Texans showing the rest of us how Texas rolls? Or how about $fw? They are sucking in the high rollers for their party. THE DON is BFF with both big and little Trump. Maybe your best bud WLH can fire off a strongly worded newspaper statement?

After all, its not the OTC guys week ending hunts that are over there, being affected. Why is it ONLY when something goes bad("Cecil the lion, elephant) all the high rollers want to come around DEMANDING ACTION?

Simple fact is your mostly right. It is BS, it will lead to elephant black market slaughter. Its also a slap from a President elected by "the forgotten", most of whom are hunters/fishers.

But honestly. Hunting will only exist until the public stops it(BC bear). Much of that non hunting public can get past hunters filling their freezers.
But they DO NOT believe for a second that is what's happening with elephants, lions, giraffes. They are right. The push was for trophy hunting, the conservation followed.

I'm personally indifferent to it. However, the Africa thing is a cement boot around the leg of hunters. Its bad imagery, its bad PR. Truth being the concern isn't over whether you can import elephant meat, its over importing the trophy.

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

Tristate · Jan 30, 2018

Hossblur if you would have payed attention all those other times you would have realized it was always about the animal first. That's what its about this time also. Without the animal I have no livelihood.

If you think the feds won't abuse the animals on all that public ground you cherish, once they are done screwing ALL international hunters and wildlife, you are kidding yourself.

Vanilla · Jan 30, 2018

LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-18 AT 10:45AM (MST)[p]El-Oh-el!

I am definitely on Trump's payroll and doing his bidding on Monster Muleys to the 7 people that will see this thread. He pays me well for it, too.

Tri is seriously good at this detective stuff. He has me completely figured out, and now I'm exposed.

Tristate · Jan 30, 2018

I notice you are more than happy to make this thread about me and you instead of the fact that USFWS and Trump just sealed the fates of tens of thousands of elephants.

Like I said before, get out of man town.

Vanilla · Jan 30, 2018

Don't play the victim you petulant child. You attacked me for a very benign post in which I acknowledged that I have no problem if people want to hunt elephants. Your livelihood being connected to this decision only goes to hurt your credibility, not that you had any in the first place around these parts.

You are not the only person that understands the dynamics at play here. In fact, I am not sure you do understand the dynamics at play here so much as you're just reading from a cue card on bullet points to regurgitate on the topic. Go throw a temper tantrum somewhere else. Leave the important topics to the adults in the room.

hossblur · Jan 30, 2018

>I notice you are more than
>happy to make this thread
>about me and you instead
>of the fact that USFWS
>and Trump just sealed the
>fates of tens of thousands
>of elephants.
>
>Like I said before, get out
>of man town.

Do u think that dead elephant cares if Robyn Waldrip killed it or a poacher?

In this case lets be honest. ITS ONLY ABOUT TUSKS. You just want them to pass through your shop.

To be honest, lifting all bans on horn, INCLUDING Rhino might be the only savior of them. SO GET SCI TO CIT OFF REPUB FUNDING UNTIL THEN.

I personally have zero interest in Africa. I'm not opposed either. Having said that, I don't want to spend a single bit of capital, political or otherwise saving a foreign playground. As usual, the deep pockets spend millions trying to close up hunting to public guys, then when they hit a tight spot they come running for our help.

SCI and $fw will have 99% of the high rollers in the country at their respected parties in the next month. Lets see them come out against Trump and Republicans. Including no more checks. Show the average guys you care more about the animals than the political favoritism, then maybe we are in.

Us Knuckleheads will support that!

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

Tristate · Jan 30, 2018

Hossblur,

That's the beauty about this. YOU DON"T HAVE TO SPEND ANYTHING ON THEM. You don't have to do anything. The African nations are perfectly capable of managing their game without USFWS.

Vanilla,

Your still talking boy. Get out of man town. Go make believe you lived in Zimbabwe somewhere else.

hossblur · Jan 30, 2018

LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-18 AT 06:15PM (MST)[p]>Hossblur,
>
>That's the beauty about this.
>YOU DON"T HAVE TO SPEND
>ANYTHING ON THEM. You
>don't have to do anything.
> The African nations are
>perfectly capable of managing their
>game without USFWS.
>
>Vanilla,
>
>Your still talking boy. Get
>out of man town.
>Go make believe you lived
>in Zimbabwe somewhere else.

Then what's the issue?

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

Tristate · Jan 30, 2018

USFWS is manipulating and influencing foriegn wildlife models while promoting antihunting agendas domestically.

Vanilla · Jan 31, 2018

Tri-again-state: "The African nations are perfectly capable of managing their game without USFWS."

Some African countries are, that is very true. But not all of them are. If you suggest Zimbabwe is capable of managing this issue without assistance and influence from the international community, you show how little you understand the dynamics involved in that country for the last 30 years.

Americans will still go to Zimbabwe and hunt elephants, just like they did under previous bans.

Tristate · Jan 31, 2018

Vanilla,

You are full of crap. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. None. You are the problem. Get out of man town. The two countries in question have a perfectly good track record of managing their elephants. You know that. USFWS are antihunting scumbags. The vast majority of Americans WILL NOT GO HUNTING AFRICAN ELEPHANTS IF THIS BAN STAYS IN PLACE. They didn't when it started and they won't know.

Throw up a stat. How many Americans hunted elephant in Zim last year? Come on boy you know the facts so share with us.

Go lie to someone else.

pufftuffly · Jan 31, 2018

"get out of man town"?

Hey Pudge, is that what all the teenage girls on instaface are saying these days?

Vanilla · Jan 31, 2018

Newsflash: The vast majority of Americans WILL NOT GO HUNTING AFRICAN ELEPHANTS IF THIS BAN IS LIFTED!

Fact is, this impacts very, very few people, and only a minuscule percentage of hunters overall.

Notice how I never said that Zimbabwe needs assistance and influence from USFWS specifically? They do not have a good track record of managing elephants on their own. You know this. I know this. All the PHs that will be in Salt Lake City pimping Zimbabwe elephant hunts next week know this. And all the hunters that will book with them and fill out their quotas will get to know this soon enough.

Tristate · Jan 31, 2018

SO if the majority of Americans don't go elephant hunting then its OK to screw the ones that do??????? Is that what you are implying. Is that what you consider logic? Maybe if the majority of Germans aren't Jews it won't matter what they want either right?

"All the PHs that will be in Salt Lake City pimping Zimbabwe elephant hunts next week know this."

Now the truth finally comes out with this statement. Guys trying to sell elephant hunts are just "pimps" to you. You just played your hand boy. You just hate people who are in the hunting business. Got ya' Hope to see you soon with your cardboard sign and your hemp clothes screaming, "meat is murder". Now we understand, besides the money you get paid to agree, you actually are a rabid anti that doesn't care what happens to elephants as long as the "pimps" you hate suffer.

The biggest problem with Zimbabwean elephants is they are over populated. They have managed them to well.

I asked you for a stat earlier and apparently you are to yellow to dish it out. Maybe they delivered it to your American address while you were busy living in Zimbabwe.

TOPGUN · Jan 31, 2018

I see the Troll is back putting out the BS, as always!

Vanilla · Jan 31, 2018

You are seriously so good at this detective stuff. You figured out in one post I made up that I lived in Zimbabwe. You figured out that President Trump pays me to come and argue for him anti-hunting policies on an internet forum. And now you've completely got me pegged as the anti that I am.

I'll be the one throwing paint on everyone at the expo next week, and the one flying out to Zimbabwe to poach all their elephants so these horrible rich folk don't get to do it.

Tri, you need to change jobs. You'd be fantastic at investigative work. And now that you won't be getting any trophies from Zimbabwe or Zambia, we all know you'll be looking for work. I bow in your presence, sir.

Tristate · Jan 31, 2018

Back to bashing me because you are fresh out of lies and now you realize you look like an ass for calling honest people you don't know pimps.

Maybe you would like to call little kids selling lemonade "whores" or old ranchers "rapists"? Do you hate everyone who works in the private sector because you just couldn't cut it out there with the rest of them?

Vanilla · Jan 31, 2018

Nope, I hate everyone in the private AND public sector. I'm jealous of every single one of them.

You're batting .1000. It's amazing to watch!

pufftuffly · Jan 31, 2018

>SO if the majority of Americans
>don't go elephant hunting then
>its OK to screw the
>ones that do??????? Is
>that what you are implying.
> Is that what you
>consider logic? Maybe if
>the majority of Germans aren't
>Jews it won't matter what
>they want either right?
>
>"All the PHs that will be
>in Salt Lake City pimping
>Zimbabwe elephant hunts next week
>know this."
>
>Now the truth finally comes out
>with this statement. Guys
>trying to sell elephant hunts
>are just "pimps" to you.
> You just played your
>hand boy. You just
>hate people who are in
>the hunting business. Got
>ya' Hope to see
>you soon with your cardboard
>sign and your hemp clothes
>screaming, "meat is murder".
>Now we understand, besides the
>money you get paid to
>agree, you actually are a
>rabid anti that doesn't care
>what happens to elephants as
>long as the "pimps" you
>hate suffer.
>
>The biggest problem with Zimbabwean elephants
>is they are over populated.
> They have managed them
>to well.
>
>I asked you for a stat
>earlier and apparently you are
>to yellow to dish it
>out. Maybe they delivered
>it to your American address
>while you were busy living
>in Zimbabwe.

You just played your hand Vanilla, he's got you! What a jackass.

and Pudge comparing the poor ol' American Elephant hunter to Jews in Germany. LMFAO!!!!

Tristate · Jan 31, 2018

Like I said your just happy thinking no one will notice that Trump screwed over elephants and USFWS is screwing the rest of us.

Attack me all you want but I'm going to keep talking about it. Don't feel left out. They'll get around to screwing you one day.

schoolhousegrizz · Jan 31, 2018

I love Trump, however I disagree with this decision. Makes no sense at all to me. Maybe his son Donald Trump jr. can smack him upside the head, and knock some sense into him.

grizzly · Feb 4, 2018

Any further info on USFWS not issuing import permits?

I'm at SCI and have asked no less than 6 African guides, a booking agent, and a shipping broker and none of them have heard of this and two have received animals (including a lion) in the last week.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News

Tristate · Feb 4, 2018

LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-18 AT 11:34AM (MST)[p]I haven't been notified of a change this week but the clearance company I use is at sci right now also. Most of the foriegn outfits don't even know about it. When I was at dsc nobody knew about it even though it was the case. By the time HSC came around some outfits knew about it but we're trying to keep it quiet. It wouldn't surprise me if outfitters and guides are trying to keep it quiet until after the shows. Kind of hard to sell hunts to people if they aren't sure they can get their trophy back.

As for people getting their trophies cleared right now, those are people who had already received their permit. Most permits issued by usfws are good for 1 year. So if you were issued your permit 3 months ago and your lion arrives now you will get it cleared and receive it.

The problem is right now no more permits are being issued indefinitely. So you can go book your international hunt but when you mail in your application for an import permit don't hold your breath.

Call Lynette Lily with Well Worldwide Energy Logistics. 281-606-2400 and she can help keep you informed. Also try and find John Jackson with Conservation Force. He is the authority when it comes to current battles with USFWS. He should be there at the show.

Vanilla · Feb 4, 2018

LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-18 AT 10:02PM (MST)[p]?It wouldn't surprise me if outfitters and guides are trying to keep it quiet until after the shows. Kind of hard to sell hunts to people if they aren't sure they can get their trophy back.? -tritoohard

Sounds like a pretty honest, ethical thing to do. Stand up business they're running, for sure. Really makes me want to book a trip.

Tristate · Feb 4, 2018

One thing you'll learn vanilla, just like lawyers, there are plenty of outfitters and booking agents that have left ethics way behind.

pufftuffly · Feb 5, 2018

Kinda like pimps, right Pudge?

hossblur · Feb 5, 2018

>One thing you'll learn vanilla, just
>like lawyers, there are plenty
>of outfitters and booking agents
>that have left ethics way
>behind.

Well we should all storm the Whitehouse and demand that this business be freed from the shackles of an oppressive government so they can continue on with their business.

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

Vanilla · Feb 5, 2018

I hear pimpin' ain't easy, but neither is faux outrage.

Tristate · Feb 5, 2018

Not even sure what that means vanilla. But I don't speak jive.

Globalhunter · Feb 5, 2018

Guys, the unfortunate fact is that this will have a negative effect on Zim's long-term elephant population, management and overall conservation. Sad...but just that simple!!!