Expo auction permits price
- Thread starter Downrange
- Start date
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 36,928
I Heard the Alcatraz Tag went for 290K!
And I Heard a SJ Rifle Elk Tag went for 80K!
Other than them 2 Tags I Don't Know?
And I Heard a SJ Rifle Elk Tag went for 80K!
Other than them 2 Tags I Don't Know?
Wapitiwilly
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,234
Most deer tags where north of 30K (paunsaugunt, Oak creek) Henrys 80K+, Arizona 200K+, Jicarilla 100K+. Humbles a working man?
ridgetops
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,727
>You'd think with all that money
>for "conservation" Utah would be
>a sportsmans paradise. Huh?
> Wonder why not?
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"
I'd say we're having things pretty darn good right now.
Get ready for change because it's going to happen!
>for "conservation" Utah would be
>a sportsmans paradise. Huh?
> Wonder why not?
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"
I'd say we're having things pretty darn good right now.
Get ready for change because it's going to happen!
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,556
>You'd think with all that money
>for "conservation" Utah would be
>a sportsmans paradise. Huh?
> Wonder why not?
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"
Hey Hoss, don't you know that Utah is the "Serengeti" of the US according to the Don!
>for "conservation" Utah would be
>a sportsmans paradise. Huh?
> Wonder why not?
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"
Hey Hoss, don't you know that Utah is the "Serengeti" of the US according to the Don!
>Hoss, with more people trying to
>hunt Utah than surrounding states
>i would guess it must
>be a place in demand
>to hunt. With over
>400 thousand people applying for
>tags so to hunt Utah
>mom
Applying and being able to get one decent tag in a lifetime in Utah are two completely different things Birdman!
>hunt Utah than surrounding states
>i would guess it must
>be a place in demand
>to hunt. With over
>400 thousand people applying for
>tags so to hunt Utah
>mom
Applying and being able to get one decent tag in a lifetime in Utah are two completely different things Birdman!
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,591
With Utah having more conservation/auction tags than all other states combined... It's a wonder anybody even cares to hunt Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Idaho, and Arizona. How do they even have any wildlife at all in those states?
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>You cry babies need to hunt
>Kalifornicated. A general deer hunt
>like Pine Valley is better
>than any hunt in CA.
>Utah is the best managed
>state in the western USA.
>No question.
With that last comment I have to ask what in the H they have been mixing in with your Koolaid? BEST for cripes sakes when if a vote was taken UT would be lucky not to come in last of all the western states! SFW loyalists have sure been duped by the Don and must not get out of their state to see how states are actually run properly without all those auction and raffle tags.
>Kalifornicated. A general deer hunt
>like Pine Valley is better
>than any hunt in CA.
>Utah is the best managed
>state in the western USA.
>No question.
With that last comment I have to ask what in the H they have been mixing in with your Koolaid? BEST for cripes sakes when if a vote was taken UT would be lucky not to come in last of all the western states! SFW loyalists have sure been duped by the Don and must not get out of their state to see how states are actually run properly without all those auction and raffle tags.
>>You cry babies need to hunt
>>Kalifornicated. A general deer hunt
>>like Pine Valley is better
>>than any hunt in CA.
>>Utah is the best managed
>>state in the western USA.
>>No question.
>
>With that last comment I have
>to ask what in the
>H they have been mixing
>in with your Koolaid?
>BEST for cripes sakes when
>if a vote was taken
>UT would be lucky not
>to come in last of
>all the western states!
>SFW loyalists have sure been
>duped by the Don and
>must not get out of
>their state to see how
>states are actually run properly
>without all those auction and
>raffle tags.
Please tell us which state is better?tag for tag and best scoring and opportunity for everyone?
>>Kalifornicated. A general deer hunt
>>like Pine Valley is better
>>than any hunt in CA.
>>Utah is the best managed
>>state in the western USA.
>>No question.
>
>With that last comment I have
>to ask what in the
>H they have been mixing
>in with your Koolaid?
>BEST for cripes sakes when
>if a vote was taken
>UT would be lucky not
>to come in last of
>all the western states!
>SFW loyalists have sure been
>duped by the Don and
>must not get out of
>their state to see how
>states are actually run properly
>without all those auction and
>raffle tags.
Please tell us which state is better?tag for tag and best scoring and opportunity for everyone?
Tikka
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,828
>TOP GUN I believe both of
>us live in different states
>other than Utah. Do you
>hunt Utah? How many years?
>What spieces? Do you participate
>in their bonus and preference
>points applications?
I'm guessing it's going to go something like this... "yes, no, none, none and no, but I am an expert about Utah hunting"
>us live in different states
>other than Utah. Do you
>hunt Utah? How many years?
>What spieces? Do you participate
>in their bonus and preference
>points applications?
I'm guessing it's going to go something like this... "yes, no, none, none and no, but I am an expert about Utah hunting"
schoolhousegrizz
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,577
LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-18 AT 09:34PM (MST)[p]I know Wyoming gives 20% of their tags to non-residents which is awesome for the non-residents, and not so good for the residents. The only reason they give 20% to non-residents is for money. Wyoming is a joke in its own right. W y o g a is a joke. Wilderness laws a joke. They want a certain amount of tags allocated for Outfitters, Wyoming has no room to talk.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,502
>You cry babies need to hunt
>Kalifornicated. A general deer hunt
>like Pine Valley is better
>than any hunt in CA.
>Utah is the best managed
>state in the western USA.
>No question.
The number of Utah guys heading elsewhere might disagree.
Antelope-Wyoming
Deer-Colorado
Elk-Arizona
Sheep-Montana
Goats???
Moose-Idaho
Bison-Utah
Can't speak to goats, but Bison is the only species I can think of Utah might be able to claim as being #1 in.
Funny thing, I'm not aware of a major Bison conservation group in Utah.
All that money, all those dudes who don't draw because of "conservation" tags. Look how successful its been
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>Kalifornicated. A general deer hunt
>like Pine Valley is better
>than any hunt in CA.
>Utah is the best managed
>state in the western USA.
>No question.
The number of Utah guys heading elsewhere might disagree.
Antelope-Wyoming
Deer-Colorado
Elk-Arizona
Sheep-Montana
Goats???
Moose-Idaho
Bison-Utah
Can't speak to goats, but Bison is the only species I can think of Utah might be able to claim as being #1 in.
Funny thing, I'm not aware of a major Bison conservation group in Utah.
All that money, all those dudes who don't draw because of "conservation" tags. Look how successful its been
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,556
I think it's funny when this topic comes up. The answer is both sides are partially correct. There are things about Utah?s management strategies that I dislike. Namely, the amount of expo and conservation tags given out for free to sustain special interest groups that then turn around and dictate policies in the face of the strong majority. But to say that Utah is the worst managed state in the West is laughable beyond belief.
I would not say that it's the best managed state either, but overall hunting experience across the board, I'd put it up against any state.
I wish we would make changes. I wish we'd cut off those groups that have become an albatross of welfare tags. But, things are pretty good here. That's why there is such a demand for the limited resource.
I would not say that it's the best managed state either, but overall hunting experience across the board, I'd put it up against any state.
I wish we would make changes. I wish we'd cut off those groups that have become an albatross of welfare tags. But, things are pretty good here. That's why there is such a demand for the limited resource.
pufftuffly
Active Member
- Messages
- 446
>You cry babies need to hunt
>Kalifornicated. A general deer hunt
>like Pine Valley is better
>than any hunt in CA.
>Utah is the best managed
>state in the western USA.
>No question.
Aren?t you some kind of a tag pimp or something like that?
It's funny how all the leeches on the a$$ of America?s wildlife love $FW and Utah.
>Kalifornicated. A general deer hunt
>like Pine Valley is better
>than any hunt in CA.
>Utah is the best managed
>state in the western USA.
>No question.
Aren?t you some kind of a tag pimp or something like that?
It's funny how all the leeches on the a$$ of America?s wildlife love $FW and Utah.
Tikka
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,828
>>You cry babies need to hunt
>>Kalifornicated. A general deer hunt
>>like Pine Valley is better
>>than any hunt in CA.
>>Utah is the best managed
>>state in the western USA.
>>No question.
>
>
>Aren?t you some kind of a
>tag pimp or something like
>that?
>
>It's funny how all the leeches
>on the a$$ of America?s
>wildlife love $FW and Utah.
>
I guess Shockey, is a leach on the a$$ of America?s wildlife... Man it must be nice living in puffy land...
>>Kalifornicated. A general deer hunt
>>like Pine Valley is better
>>than any hunt in CA.
>>Utah is the best managed
>>state in the western USA.
>>No question.
>
>
>Aren?t you some kind of a
>tag pimp or something like
>that?
>
>It's funny how all the leeches
>on the a$$ of America?s
>wildlife love $FW and Utah.
>
I guess Shockey, is a leach on the a$$ of America?s wildlife... Man it must be nice living in puffy land...
pufftuffly
Active Member
- Messages
- 446
I wouldn't know, I don't idolize Shockey like you do.
Tikka
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,828
>I wouldn't know, I don't idolize
>Shockey like you do.
That's correct I do indeed idolize him... he is a great ambassador to our sport... it's too bad you don't see his and MANY others including organizations like SFW & MDF that defend your hunting rights...
Good day puffy
>Shockey like you do.
That's correct I do indeed idolize him... he is a great ambassador to our sport... it's too bad you don't see his and MANY others including organizations like SFW & MDF that defend your hunting rights...
Good day puffy
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,502
>I think it's funny when this
>topic comes up. The answer
>is both sides are partially
>correct. There are things about
>Utah?s management strategies that I
>dislike. Namely, the amount of
>expo and conservation tags given
>out for free to sustain
>special interest groups that then
>turn around and dictate policies
>in the face of the
>strong majority. But to say
>that Utah is the worst
>managed state in the West
>is laughable beyond belief.
>
>I would not say that it's
>the best managed state either,
>but overall hunting experience across
>the board, I'd put it
>up against any state.
>
>I wish we would make changes.
>I wish we'd cut off
>those groups that have become
>an albatross of welfare tags.
>But, things are pretty good
>here. That's why there is
>such a demand for the
>limited resource.
I didn't say the worst. There's always The Peoples Repibiblic of Cali, but that's a straw man.
When you look at the simple facts, Utah gives away more "conservation" tags than all the western states combined. The money raised from them measured in millions, the return on investment is very poor.
Every issue Utah has, affecting deer, Colorado has. Who is better? Colorado return on investment is far greater.
Elk. Arizona return on investment is much greater.
Etc, Etc.
I doubt highly any of you guys that have stocks, or 401k would be satisfied "not being the worst".
Simple fact is if SFW, or this "dog and pony show" they helped create was a shinning success, all the other states would try to copy Utah. Truth is, they are all terrified of what Utah is doing.
Results are all that matter. Our results are very poor comparatively speaking
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>topic comes up. The answer
>is both sides are partially
>correct. There are things about
>Utah?s management strategies that I
>dislike. Namely, the amount of
>expo and conservation tags given
>out for free to sustain
>special interest groups that then
>turn around and dictate policies
>in the face of the
>strong majority. But to say
>that Utah is the worst
>managed state in the West
>is laughable beyond belief.
>
>I would not say that it's
>the best managed state either,
>but overall hunting experience across
>the board, I'd put it
>up against any state.
>
>I wish we would make changes.
>I wish we'd cut off
>those groups that have become
>an albatross of welfare tags.
>But, things are pretty good
>here. That's why there is
>such a demand for the
>limited resource.
I didn't say the worst. There's always The Peoples Repibiblic of Cali, but that's a straw man.
When you look at the simple facts, Utah gives away more "conservation" tags than all the western states combined. The money raised from them measured in millions, the return on investment is very poor.
Every issue Utah has, affecting deer, Colorado has. Who is better? Colorado return on investment is far greater.
Elk. Arizona return on investment is much greater.
Etc, Etc.
I doubt highly any of you guys that have stocks, or 401k would be satisfied "not being the worst".
Simple fact is if SFW, or this "dog and pony show" they helped create was a shinning success, all the other states would try to copy Utah. Truth is, they are all terrified of what Utah is doing.
Results are all that matter. Our results are very poor comparatively speaking
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,556
Hoss, you are not the only person posting here bashing Utah's hunting and management. And speaking of straw man, you just took everything that I said I did not like about how Utah is managed, and then tried to use it to prove me wrong. Do you find that odd? Because I did, at least a little odd. Finally, I did not say I'm happy with not "being the worst." So your 401k statement, is...as you like to call it, a straw man.
I put Utah against any western state, at the top. Not just above last place. Colorado may have better deer hunting overall, but it does not have better big game hunting overall. Arizona might be argued to have better elk hunting (although I personally would dispute this), that does not mean they have better big game hunting overall. Wyoming has better antelope hunting, but not better big game hunting overall. When looked at in aggregate, Utah does pretty darn well, actually.
Yes, there are things I hate about how Utah operates, and just to be clear since apparently it did not register the first time I typed it, most of that has to do with the welfare tag program the state runs. But overall, Utah has some pretty awesome big game opportunities, and anyone that says we don't, well, I'm fine if that is your perspective and you'd like to hunt somewhere else.
I put Utah against any western state, at the top. Not just above last place. Colorado may have better deer hunting overall, but it does not have better big game hunting overall. Arizona might be argued to have better elk hunting (although I personally would dispute this), that does not mean they have better big game hunting overall. Wyoming has better antelope hunting, but not better big game hunting overall. When looked at in aggregate, Utah does pretty darn well, actually.
Yes, there are things I hate about how Utah operates, and just to be clear since apparently it did not register the first time I typed it, most of that has to do with the welfare tag program the state runs. But overall, Utah has some pretty awesome big game opportunities, and anyone that says we don't, well, I'm fine if that is your perspective and you'd like to hunt somewhere else.
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,591
Jim Shockey does not deserve idolization. Here's a quote from him from last week,
"I Support Greg Hughes, seated on my right, a fellow hunter and politician... We must support him, protect him and ensure he does become the next Governor."
But of course it's not surprising to see Shockey support a land-grabber as his income is built off selling high-priced hunts on leased concessions.
There are plenty of people who do far more for conservation without throwing their weight behind the closing of public lands, high-dollar tags, and organizations that support the shooting of high-fence animals.
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
"I Support Greg Hughes, seated on my right, a fellow hunter and politician... We must support him, protect him and ensure he does become the next Governor."
But of course it's not surprising to see Shockey support a land-grabber as his income is built off selling high-priced hunts on leased concessions.
There are plenty of people who do far more for conservation without throwing their weight behind the closing of public lands, high-dollar tags, and organizations that support the shooting of high-fence animals.
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
Looks like all those who didn't care for my post need to read closer as to what I was referring to. The comment that I took exception to was that Utah is the best managed state. Nowhere did I say Utah doesn't have some awesome animals or a reputation for some giants in several different species. I was strictly referring to the sorry state of affairs that SFW has affected the state with all those tags at the Expo that exceed all the other states combined. Funny how many millions of dollars they make each year on that Expo, but when you look at the bottom line of how much they give back to Utah each year it really sucks. Too bad you SFW lovers can't kick the top dogs out and run it like the great organization it could be if all the money went where it should! Seems a little odd that if Utah is run so well according to that member comment that in just about every hunting website when the state of Utah is discussed it always has about 95% negative comments about it's politics, the SFW being in cahoots with the DWR and running the state to the detriment of the average hunter, etc. Just look at the sham of a deal that took place when RMEF lost that tag bid with a bid that was so far above and better than that of SFW/MDF and that's all you need to look at and see how Utah is managed for an organization and not it's citizens!
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,502
Vanilla.
I got your point. But again for the money that WE have pumped into $FW since 93' saying we're about as good as Idaho, Wyoming, etc, etc just isn't good enough.
Remember. SFW was started to save the mule deer and give a voice to avg gut.
Those dudes sitting in the auction last weekend, bidders and guides, have a LOT bigger voice than u or I. And our deer herds are not the best around.
At some point results should matter.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
I got your point. But again for the money that WE have pumped into $FW since 93' saying we're about as good as Idaho, Wyoming, etc, etc just isn't good enough.
Remember. SFW was started to save the mule deer and give a voice to avg gut.
Those dudes sitting in the auction last weekend, bidders and guides, have a LOT bigger voice than u or I. And our deer herds are not the best around.
At some point results should matter.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
Okay I think I want to chime in on this. I must first say that YBO is being very honest and I strongly agree with him on Utah being at the top of the states.
My reasoning for agreeing with him is the fact that I have hunted all the states mentioned (except AZ elk). With that said, no other state offers a chance at a 190 class mule deer on a general tag that takes 1-3 years to draw like Utah does. Idaho comes in second on this category as far as quality of deer on general tags. The next thing that everyone needs to realize is that these auction tags do raise millions of dollars that go back into habitat and conservation needs for elk, deer and sheep.
Most of these auction tags are in areas that you and I will never draw anyways THINK ABOUT IT (Henry's, Antelope Island, Pauns, San Juan etc). Their is only 1 tag given out in the draw for Antelope Island. So the 300K it brings in for killing 1 deer is not affecting 99.9999% of the hunters who hunt general/other limited areas. That 300K is not used for habitat on Antelope Island, it's used in other areas of the state. The same goes on for all other deer, elk and sheep tags like Henry's and Pauns. 5 more deer killed in the Henry's or Pauns is not going to change the quality of the deer herd. Bottom line is, these auction tags do not negatively affect the rest of the states overall hunting quality and or opportunity. They help them.
I do say this with a conservation background. I am not an auction tag buyer and never will be because of the money obviously.
If you disagree with me on this, then you should come hunt CA where we auction 4-6 deer tags and 1 sheep tag a year. Guess what, our deer herds are in terrible shape and a unit that takes 13 points is not even as good as some Utah general hunts.
Oh one other thing that is fantastic about Utah. You guys have put the smack down on coyotes because you have gotten paid to do so and look what happened. YOU GOT MORE DEER. Utah DNR was able to pay you to do this because they have extra money coming in for habitat and conservation from the auction tags.
My reasoning for agreeing with him is the fact that I have hunted all the states mentioned (except AZ elk). With that said, no other state offers a chance at a 190 class mule deer on a general tag that takes 1-3 years to draw like Utah does. Idaho comes in second on this category as far as quality of deer on general tags. The next thing that everyone needs to realize is that these auction tags do raise millions of dollars that go back into habitat and conservation needs for elk, deer and sheep.
Most of these auction tags are in areas that you and I will never draw anyways THINK ABOUT IT (Henry's, Antelope Island, Pauns, San Juan etc). Their is only 1 tag given out in the draw for Antelope Island. So the 300K it brings in for killing 1 deer is not affecting 99.9999% of the hunters who hunt general/other limited areas. That 300K is not used for habitat on Antelope Island, it's used in other areas of the state. The same goes on for all other deer, elk and sheep tags like Henry's and Pauns. 5 more deer killed in the Henry's or Pauns is not going to change the quality of the deer herd. Bottom line is, these auction tags do not negatively affect the rest of the states overall hunting quality and or opportunity. They help them.
I do say this with a conservation background. I am not an auction tag buyer and never will be because of the money obviously.
If you disagree with me on this, then you should come hunt CA where we auction 4-6 deer tags and 1 sheep tag a year. Guess what, our deer herds are in terrible shape and a unit that takes 13 points is not even as good as some Utah general hunts.
Oh one other thing that is fantastic about Utah. You guys have put the smack down on coyotes because you have gotten paid to do so and look what happened. YOU GOT MORE DEER. Utah DNR was able to pay you to do this because they have extra money coming in for habitat and conservation from the auction tags.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,502
Subtract the deer numbers from private, closed, CWMU, my bet is the numbers are near the 93 numbers.
MIG, Vanilla, YBO, etc.
Again. If $FW and the pumping of our wildlife have been so successful, why isn't $FW running any other state? They've been around 25 yrs. All those other states not care about wildlife?
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
MIG, Vanilla, YBO, etc.
Again. If $FW and the pumping of our wildlife have been so successful, why isn't $FW running any other state? They've been around 25 yrs. All those other states not care about wildlife?
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
Tikka
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,828
>Jim Shockey does not deserve idolization.
>Here's a quote from him
>from last week,
>
>"I Support Greg Hughes, seated on
>my right, a fellow hunter
>and politician... We must support
>him, protect him and ensure
>he does become the next
>Governor."
>
>But of course it's not surprising
>to see Shockey support a
>land-grabber as his income is
>built off selling high-priced hunts
>on leased concessions.
>
>There are plenty of people who
>do far more for conservation
>without throwing their weight behind
>the closing of public lands,
>high-dollar tags, and organizations that
>support the shooting of high-fence
>animals.
>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------
>
>"It's time to revisit the widely
>accepted principle in the United
>States and Canada that game
>is a public resource."
>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>
Grizz
We can argue back and forth on who is a better advocate for hunters all day long and that will get us nowhere...Shockey is one badazz dude...
>Here's a quote from him
>from last week,
>
>"I Support Greg Hughes, seated on
>my right, a fellow hunter
>and politician... We must support
>him, protect him and ensure
>he does become the next
>Governor."
>
>But of course it's not surprising
>to see Shockey support a
>land-grabber as his income is
>built off selling high-priced hunts
>on leased concessions.
>
>There are plenty of people who
>do far more for conservation
>without throwing their weight behind
>the closing of public lands,
>high-dollar tags, and organizations that
>support the shooting of high-fence
>animals.
>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------
>
>"It's time to revisit the widely
>accepted principle in the United
>States and Canada that game
>is a public resource."
>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>
Grizz
We can argue back and forth on who is a better advocate for hunters all day long and that will get us nowhere...Shockey is one badazz dude...
Take away the strip and Kaibab in AZ and deer is terible
NM is not that great for deer except 2b and 2c (impossible to draw)
Montana is good , but only for quantity not trophy class
NV is great but extremely hard to draw
CA, OR and WA are pretty bad
WY is good for a few areas for 2-4 pts
How do you get UT as 5th??? It should be 3rd at worst
NM is not that great for deer except 2b and 2c (impossible to draw)
Montana is good , but only for quantity not trophy class
NV is great but extremely hard to draw
CA, OR and WA are pretty bad
WY is good for a few areas for 2-4 pts
How do you get UT as 5th??? It should be 3rd at worst
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,556
"Oh one other thing that is fantastic about Utah. You guys have put the smack down on coyotes because you have gotten paid to do so and look what happened. YOU GOT MORE DEER. Utah DNR was able to pay you to do this because they have extra money coming in for habitat and conservation from the auction tags." - MIG
This is not true. The money comes from a $5 increase to all big game hunting permits in Utah, along with a yearly allocation from the general fund from the legislature. This program is not funded at all by auction tags.
Hoss, you keep trying to paint me into an SFW supporter. You're not paying attention if you think that. You are not going to see me go to bat for the organization, nor the programs they've been able to commandeer from the public here in Utah. You and I agree on this issue, no matter how hard you try to make my position be something different.
My whole point is Utah has well-managed game herds and our overall big game hunting experience rivals any state in the west with comparable game species. Do I like everything we do? Nope. I've already illustrated in this very thread one thing I don't like, that we agree upon even if you keep trying to argue another way. There are others, but I guess when you're asking about results mattering...we kill a lot of animals in Utah, and a lot of really big animals. Aren't those results?
This is not true. The money comes from a $5 increase to all big game hunting permits in Utah, along with a yearly allocation from the general fund from the legislature. This program is not funded at all by auction tags.
Hoss, you keep trying to paint me into an SFW supporter. You're not paying attention if you think that. You are not going to see me go to bat for the organization, nor the programs they've been able to commandeer from the public here in Utah. You and I agree on this issue, no matter how hard you try to make my position be something different.
My whole point is Utah has well-managed game herds and our overall big game hunting experience rivals any state in the west with comparable game species. Do I like everything we do? Nope. I've already illustrated in this very thread one thing I don't like, that we agree upon even if you keep trying to argue another way. There are others, but I guess when you're asking about results mattering...we kill a lot of animals in Utah, and a lot of really big animals. Aren't those results?
pufftuffly
Active Member
- Messages
- 446
>Okay I think I want to
>chime in on this. I
>must first say that YBO
>is being very honest and
>I strongly agree with him
>on Utah being at the
>top of the states.
>
>My reasoning for agreeing with him
>is the fact that I
>have hunted all the states
>mentioned (except AZ elk). With
>that said, no other state
>offers a chance at a
>190 class mule deer on
>a general tag that takes
>1-3 years to draw like
>Utah does. Idaho comes in
>second on this category as
>far as quality of deer
>on general tags. The next
>thing that everyone needs to
>realize is that these auction
>tags do raise millions of
>dollars that go back into
>habitat and conservation needs for
>elk, deer and sheep.
>
>Most of these auction tags are
>in areas that you and
>I will never draw anyways
>THINK ABOUT IT (Henry's, Antelope
>Island, Pauns, San Juan etc).
>Their is only 1 tag
>given out in the draw
>for Antelope Island. So the
>300K it brings in for
>killing 1 deer is not
>affecting 99.9999% of the hunters
>who hunt general/other limited areas.
>That 300K is not used
>for habitat on Antelope Island,
>it's used in other areas
>of the state. The same
>goes on for all other
>deer, elk and sheep tags
>like Henry's and Pauns. 5
>more deer killed in the
>Henry's or Pauns is not
>going to change the quality
>of the deer herd. Bottom
>line is, these auction tags
>do not negatively affect the
>rest of the states overall
>hunting quality and or opportunity.
>They help them.
>
>I do say this with a
>conservation background. I am not
>an auction tag buyer and
>never will be because of
>the money obviously.
>
>If you disagree with me on
>this, then you should come
>hunt CA where we auction
>4-6 deer tags and 1
>sheep tag a year. Guess
>what, our deer herds are
>in terrible shape and a
>unit that takes 13 points
>is not even as good
>as some Utah general hunts.
>
>
>Oh one other thing that is
>fantastic about Utah. You guys
>have put the smack down
>on coyotes because you have
>gotten paid to do so
>and look what happened. YOU
>GOT MORE DEER. Utah DNR
>was able to pay you
>to do this because they
>have extra money coming in
>for habitat and conservation from
>the auction tags.
You don't know what you're talking about Kalifornian. I'm not surprised tho.
The $300k for the AI deer tag you speak of does in fact stay on the island. You know for buying toilet paper and fixing pot holes and such for the State Park. Oh except for the 10% of the 300k that $FW gets to pocket and if you know where that's being spent please by all means share with the rest of us.
You and I will never draw some of those tags alright, because those tags being pimped out to the highest bidder and not in the public draw turns bad odds into nearly impossible odds.
>chime in on this. I
>must first say that YBO
>is being very honest and
>I strongly agree with him
>on Utah being at the
>top of the states.
>
>My reasoning for agreeing with him
>is the fact that I
>have hunted all the states
>mentioned (except AZ elk). With
>that said, no other state
>offers a chance at a
>190 class mule deer on
>a general tag that takes
>1-3 years to draw like
>Utah does. Idaho comes in
>second on this category as
>far as quality of deer
>on general tags. The next
>thing that everyone needs to
>realize is that these auction
>tags do raise millions of
>dollars that go back into
>habitat and conservation needs for
>elk, deer and sheep.
>
>Most of these auction tags are
>in areas that you and
>I will never draw anyways
>THINK ABOUT IT (Henry's, Antelope
>Island, Pauns, San Juan etc).
>Their is only 1 tag
>given out in the draw
>for Antelope Island. So the
>300K it brings in for
>killing 1 deer is not
>affecting 99.9999% of the hunters
>who hunt general/other limited areas.
>That 300K is not used
>for habitat on Antelope Island,
>it's used in other areas
>of the state. The same
>goes on for all other
>deer, elk and sheep tags
>like Henry's and Pauns. 5
>more deer killed in the
>Henry's or Pauns is not
>going to change the quality
>of the deer herd. Bottom
>line is, these auction tags
>do not negatively affect the
>rest of the states overall
>hunting quality and or opportunity.
>They help them.
>
>I do say this with a
>conservation background. I am not
>an auction tag buyer and
>never will be because of
>the money obviously.
>
>If you disagree with me on
>this, then you should come
>hunt CA where we auction
>4-6 deer tags and 1
>sheep tag a year. Guess
>what, our deer herds are
>in terrible shape and a
>unit that takes 13 points
>is not even as good
>as some Utah general hunts.
>
>
>Oh one other thing that is
>fantastic about Utah. You guys
>have put the smack down
>on coyotes because you have
>gotten paid to do so
>and look what happened. YOU
>GOT MORE DEER. Utah DNR
>was able to pay you
>to do this because they
>have extra money coming in
>for habitat and conservation from
>the auction tags.
You don't know what you're talking about Kalifornian. I'm not surprised tho.
The $300k for the AI deer tag you speak of does in fact stay on the island. You know for buying toilet paper and fixing pot holes and such for the State Park. Oh except for the 10% of the 300k that $FW gets to pocket and if you know where that's being spent please by all means share with the rest of us.
You and I will never draw some of those tags alright, because those tags being pimped out to the highest bidder and not in the public draw turns bad odds into nearly impossible odds.
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,591
Let's advance this conversation out of theoretical and into reality...
Deer By State
Deer by County
Elk by State
Mountain Goat
Bison
These are pics from the Eastman's 2017 MRS Annual, a great resource for people looking to hunt out-of-state.
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
Deer By State
Deer by County
Elk by State
Mountain Goat
Bison
These are pics from the Eastman's 2017 MRS Annual, a great resource for people looking to hunt out-of-state.
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
BrowningRage
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,438
I like some of your argument here Vanilla. I do agree that Utah is in the mix for a top three state for multiple species.
However, I don't really think you can look at Utah, or any state, with an "aggregate" in mind. Does it matter that Utah is #3 for Mule Deer, #3 for Antelope, #2 for elk... etc. etc. if an individual can only hunt one species..??
I could say that Utah might well be the best hunting state in the west on an aggregate, but in the end, those units and hunts that make it a top competitor (not the best) for any given species, are only accessible one-at-a-time, and these days, are practically once-in-a-lifetime.
So I think you have to score the state on what is actually accessible.
52.8% of all Utah Resident applicants last year received General Season Deer tags. 45% of all non-resident applicants received General Season tags. NR tags only make up 6.8% of all General Season Deer tags in Utah. Don't know why NRs would like those numbers.
There were, if I recall correctly, only 2 general season deer hunts in the entire state of Utah that had "leftover tags" last year, both archery hunts. This means that out of 25+ units, with three weapon season, some 99.2% of all tags are gone in the General Season Draw, leaving more than half of us without a deer tag.
These are just two quick references to the limited opportunity to hunt. My friends and family in Montana and Wyoming hunt multiple species every year. They are only limited by how far their legs can take them. That is opportunity.
I think what this thread is really addressing is opportunity to hunt world class animals. Not just trophy animals, but the fact that Utah restricts hunting on public lands in order to grow monster, world-record-level animals that can then be auctioned off to the highest bidder. And that, is what is wrong with Utah hunting.
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
However, I don't really think you can look at Utah, or any state, with an "aggregate" in mind. Does it matter that Utah is #3 for Mule Deer, #3 for Antelope, #2 for elk... etc. etc. if an individual can only hunt one species..??
I could say that Utah might well be the best hunting state in the west on an aggregate, but in the end, those units and hunts that make it a top competitor (not the best) for any given species, are only accessible one-at-a-time, and these days, are practically once-in-a-lifetime.
So I think you have to score the state on what is actually accessible.
52.8% of all Utah Resident applicants last year received General Season Deer tags. 45% of all non-resident applicants received General Season tags. NR tags only make up 6.8% of all General Season Deer tags in Utah. Don't know why NRs would like those numbers.
There were, if I recall correctly, only 2 general season deer hunts in the entire state of Utah that had "leftover tags" last year, both archery hunts. This means that out of 25+ units, with three weapon season, some 99.2% of all tags are gone in the General Season Draw, leaving more than half of us without a deer tag.
These are just two quick references to the limited opportunity to hunt. My friends and family in Montana and Wyoming hunt multiple species every year. They are only limited by how far their legs can take them. That is opportunity.
I think what this thread is really addressing is opportunity to hunt world class animals. Not just trophy animals, but the fact that Utah restricts hunting on public lands in order to grow monster, world-record-level animals that can then be auctioned off to the highest bidder. And that, is what is wrong with Utah hunting.
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
There is one place most people can agree that Utah does finish in the back of the pack and that is in opportunity.
Somehow all the other states around Utah seem to produce similar quality and they do it with more opportunity and without the millions of dollars that the auction tags provide.
I think the real question, especially relating to the title of this thread, "Is Utah conservation millions of dollars better than the surrounding states?"
If your answer is no to that question, I would start wondering where the millions of dollars generated from the auction tags actually goes.
Somehow all the other states around Utah seem to produce similar quality and they do it with more opportunity and without the millions of dollars that the auction tags provide.
I think the real question, especially relating to the title of this thread, "Is Utah conservation millions of dollars better than the surrounding states?"
If your answer is no to that question, I would start wondering where the millions of dollars generated from the auction tags actually goes.
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,556
>I think the real question, especially
>relating to the title of
>this thread, "Is Utah conservation
>millions of dollars better than
>the surrounding states?"
>
>If your answer is no to
>that question, I would start
>wondering where the millions of
>dollars generated from the auction
>tags actually goes.
Lots of us are already wondering the answer to that question, and that is the source of most of the frustration surrounding these tags---the complete lack of transparency.
Of course, there are those of us that think ~500 LE and OIL tags out of the public draw is excessive, even if there was total transparency. But that is a different topic entirely.
>relating to the title of
>this thread, "Is Utah conservation
>millions of dollars better than
>the surrounding states?"
>
>If your answer is no to
>that question, I would start
>wondering where the millions of
>dollars generated from the auction
>tags actually goes.
Lots of us are already wondering the answer to that question, and that is the source of most of the frustration surrounding these tags---the complete lack of transparency.
Of course, there are those of us that think ~500 LE and OIL tags out of the public draw is excessive, even if there was total transparency. But that is a different topic entirely.
pufftuffly
Active Member
- Messages
- 446
>Puff What? I do not sell
>tags. WTF? Are you some
>kind of envious hunter?
You sell hunts? Seems I remember you being some kind of a middle man wildlife pimp. Maybe I'm wrong.
Envious of what? You? Laughin!!!
>tags. WTF? Are you some
>kind of envious hunter?
You sell hunts? Seems I remember you being some kind of a middle man wildlife pimp. Maybe I'm wrong.
Envious of what? You? Laughin!!!
Zim
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,291
There's a reason Randy Newburg now completely discourages hunters from applying in Utah. He is a straight shooter who knows all the facts.
*****************************************************
http://kutv.com/news/local/allegations-of-corruption-surround-utah-hungtin-and-conservation-expo
*****************************************************
http://kutv.com/news/local/allegations-of-corruption-surround-utah-hungtin-and-conservation-expo
ORIONTHEHUNTER
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,539
>Take away the strip and Kaibab
>in AZ and deer is
>terible
>
>NM is not that great for
>deer except 2b and 2c
>(impossible to draw)
>
>Montana is good , but only
>for quantity not trophy class
>
>
>NV is great but extremely hard
>to draw
>
>CA, OR and WA are pretty
>bad
>
>WY is good for a few
>areas for 2-4 pts
>
>How do you get UT as
>5th??? It should be 3rd
>at worst
You forgot Colorado
>in AZ and deer is
>terible
>
>NM is not that great for
>deer except 2b and 2c
>(impossible to draw)
>
>Montana is good , but only
>for quantity not trophy class
>
>
>NV is great but extremely hard
>to draw
>
>CA, OR and WA are pretty
>bad
>
>WY is good for a few
>areas for 2-4 pts
>
>How do you get UT as
>5th??? It should be 3rd
>at worst
You forgot Colorado
ORIONTHEHUNTER
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,539
>Okay I think I want to
>chime in on this. I
>must first say that YBO
>is being very honest and
>I strongly agree with him
>on Utah being at the
>top of the states.
>
>My reasoning for agreeing with him
>is the fact that I
>have hunted all the states
>mentioned (except AZ elk). With
>that said, no other state
>offers a chance at a
>190 class mule deer on
>a general tag that takes
>1-3 years to draw like
>Utah does. Idaho comes in
>second on this category as
>far as quality of deer
>on general tags. The next
>thing that everyone needs to
>realize is that these auction
>tags do raise millions of
>dollars that go back into
>habitat and conservation needs for
>elk, deer and sheep.
>
>Most of these auction tags are
>in areas that you and
>I will never draw anyways
>THINK ABOUT IT (Henry's, Antelope
>Island, Pauns, San Juan etc).
>Their is only 1 tag
>given out in the draw
>for Antelope Island. So the
>300K it brings in for
>killing 1 deer is not
>affecting 99.9999% of the hunters
>who hunt general/other limited areas.
>That 300K is not used
>for habitat on Antelope Island,
>it's used in other areas
>of the state. The same
>goes on for all other
>deer, elk and sheep tags
>like Henry's and Pauns. 5
>more deer killed in the
>Henry's or Pauns is not
>going to change the quality
>of the deer herd. Bottom
>line is, these auction tags
>do not negatively affect the
>rest of the states overall
>hunting quality and or opportunity.
>They help them.
>
>I do say this with a
>conservation background. I am not
>an auction tag buyer and
>never will be because of
>the money obviously.
>
>If you disagree with me on
>this, then you should come
>hunt CA where we auction
>4-6 deer tags and 1
>sheep tag a year. Guess
>what, our deer herds are
>in terrible shape and a
>unit that takes 13 points
>is not even as good
>as some Utah general hunts.
>
>
>Oh one other thing that is
>fantastic about Utah. You guys
>have put the smack down
>on coyotes because you have
>gotten paid to do so
>and look what happened. YOU
>GOT MORE DEER. Utah DNR
>was able to pay you
>to do this because they
>have extra money coming in
>for habitat and conservation from
>the auction tags.
Plenty of 1-3 point units in colorado that you can kill booners in
>chime in on this. I
>must first say that YBO
>is being very honest and
>I strongly agree with him
>on Utah being at the
>top of the states.
>
>My reasoning for agreeing with him
>is the fact that I
>have hunted all the states
>mentioned (except AZ elk). With
>that said, no other state
>offers a chance at a
>190 class mule deer on
>a general tag that takes
>1-3 years to draw like
>Utah does. Idaho comes in
>second on this category as
>far as quality of deer
>on general tags. The next
>thing that everyone needs to
>realize is that these auction
>tags do raise millions of
>dollars that go back into
>habitat and conservation needs for
>elk, deer and sheep.
>
>Most of these auction tags are
>in areas that you and
>I will never draw anyways
>THINK ABOUT IT (Henry's, Antelope
>Island, Pauns, San Juan etc).
>Their is only 1 tag
>given out in the draw
>for Antelope Island. So the
>300K it brings in for
>killing 1 deer is not
>affecting 99.9999% of the hunters
>who hunt general/other limited areas.
>That 300K is not used
>for habitat on Antelope Island,
>it's used in other areas
>of the state. The same
>goes on for all other
>deer, elk and sheep tags
>like Henry's and Pauns. 5
>more deer killed in the
>Henry's or Pauns is not
>going to change the quality
>of the deer herd. Bottom
>line is, these auction tags
>do not negatively affect the
>rest of the states overall
>hunting quality and or opportunity.
>They help them.
>
>I do say this with a
>conservation background. I am not
>an auction tag buyer and
>never will be because of
>the money obviously.
>
>If you disagree with me on
>this, then you should come
>hunt CA where we auction
>4-6 deer tags and 1
>sheep tag a year. Guess
>what, our deer herds are
>in terrible shape and a
>unit that takes 13 points
>is not even as good
>as some Utah general hunts.
>
>
>Oh one other thing that is
>fantastic about Utah. You guys
>have put the smack down
>on coyotes because you have
>gotten paid to do so
>and look what happened. YOU
>GOT MORE DEER. Utah DNR
>was able to pay you
>to do this because they
>have extra money coming in
>for habitat and conservation from
>the auction tags.
Plenty of 1-3 point units in colorado that you can kill booners in
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,502
>So TOPGUN with your exceptional IQ
>please do tell what Grizz
>was trying to say with
>his pie charts. And while
>your at it can you
>answer my first questions?
Ill take that one. It means that $fw, who IS NOT a "opportunity" org, has failed even pushing their own agenda, which is "trophy hunting".
Other than pumping, they haven't achieved even their own goals.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>please do tell what Grizz
>was trying to say with
>his pie charts. And while
>your at it can you
>answer my first questions?
Ill take that one. It means that $fw, who IS NOT a "opportunity" org, has failed even pushing their own agenda, which is "trophy hunting".
Other than pumping, they haven't achieved even their own goals.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,556
I can guarantee you that Utah has regions that have produced more book caliber bucks than what is listed in the pie charts. Anyone walk through the Color Country Outfitters booth at the expo the last 5 years??? (just one example, and that is not even counting Henry Mountains)
And I'm also not sure that the pie charts "prove" what TOPGUN thinks they do, but I'd be interested in seeing him try to explain it.
And I'm also not sure that the pie charts "prove" what TOPGUN thinks they do, but I'd be interested in seeing him try to explain it.
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,591
>I can guarantee you that Utah
>has regions that have produced
>more book caliber bucks than
>what is listed in the
>pie charts. Anyone walk through
>the Color Country Outfitters booth
>at the expo the last
>5 years??? (just one example,
>and that is not even
>counting Henry Mountains)
Unless you think that Utahns are less likely than residents of other states to enter their bucks into B&C than you would have to assume there is a near pro-rata rate of qualifying animals of all species, from all states, entered into the books.
Its the best tool we have to track trophy success. Certainly not all animals from Utah get entered, but they don't from other states either.
B&C has decades of information from every species from every state and almost certainly represents a realistic view of trophy potential.
Utah sells more tags than all other western states combined and does not have the trophy successes to show for it.
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>has regions that have produced
>more book caliber bucks than
>what is listed in the
>pie charts. Anyone walk through
>the Color Country Outfitters booth
>at the expo the last
>5 years??? (just one example,
>and that is not even
>counting Henry Mountains)
Unless you think that Utahns are less likely than residents of other states to enter their bucks into B&C than you would have to assume there is a near pro-rata rate of qualifying animals of all species, from all states, entered into the books.
Its the best tool we have to track trophy success. Certainly not all animals from Utah get entered, but they don't from other states either.
B&C has decades of information from every species from every state and almost certainly represents a realistic view of trophy potential.
Utah sells more tags than all other western states combined and does not have the trophy successes to show for it.
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>So there is opportunity in Utah
>after all?
Only someone from the left coast could keep coming up with the ignorant responses and followup questions you keep asking, LOL! I guess in your mind maybe Utah IS great compared to the shithole state along the Pacific (at least from south of Sacramento)!
>after all?
Only someone from the left coast could keep coming up with the ignorant responses and followup questions you keep asking, LOL! I guess in your mind maybe Utah IS great compared to the shithole state along the Pacific (at least from south of Sacramento)!
I don't want to speak for Grizzly, but I think he is referring to the fact that Utah auctions off more special unit hunts than all other states combined.
Utah definitely does not give out more tags than all the states combined. They give out less tags by far than most western states. If you can't realize Utah manages for LOW opportunity then you just aren't lookin.
Utah definitely does not give out more tags than all the states combined. They give out less tags by far than most western states. If you can't realize Utah manages for LOW opportunity then you just aren't lookin.
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,556
>They give out
>less tags by far than
>most western states.
I would be interested to see the actual numbers on this. Do you have these numbers? I would only be concerned with antlered species, since this has turned into a trophy hunting comparison, and a cow elk isn't exactly the trophy you all are talking about.
Not saying you're wrong, I'd just be interested to know the total numbers.
>less tags by far than
>most western states.
I would be interested to see the actual numbers on this. Do you have these numbers? I would only be concerned with antlered species, since this has turned into a trophy hunting comparison, and a cow elk isn't exactly the trophy you all are talking about.
Not saying you're wrong, I'd just be interested to know the total numbers.
>There's a reason Randy Newburg now
>completely discourages hunters from applying
>in Utah. He is
>a straight shooter who knows
>all the facts.
>
>*****************************************************
>
>
>http://kutv.com/news/local/allegations-of-corruption-surround-utah-hungtin-and-conservation-expo
You nailed it zim everyone should stop apply in Utah then you can stop whining!
>completely discourages hunters from applying
>in Utah. He is
>a straight shooter who knows
>all the facts.
>
>*****************************************************
>
>
>http://kutv.com/news/local/allegations-of-corruption-surround-utah-hungtin-and-conservation-expo
You nailed it zim everyone should stop apply in Utah then you can stop whining!
>Thanks Idahohntr.
>TOPGUN you still haven't answered my
>original questions. Is your oversized
>ego tapping you on the
>shoulder saying "you might look
>bad?"
Simple answer---I don't respond to stupid questions and that's all you've asked so far on this thread! No over-sized ego here, just smart enough to know that Utah sucks as far as how SFW runs the state and takes away millions of dollars from the Expo with high rollers getting all the good tags and the bulk of the money still goes God knows where due to lack of transparency!
>TOPGUN you still haven't answered my
>original questions. Is your oversized
>ego tapping you on the
>shoulder saying "you might look
>bad?"
Simple answer---I don't respond to stupid questions and that's all you've asked so far on this thread! No over-sized ego here, just smart enough to know that Utah sucks as far as how SFW runs the state and takes away millions of dollars from the Expo with high rollers getting all the good tags and the bulk of the money still goes God knows where due to lack of transparency!
No where else can a couple of haters screw up a thread about tag prices and show their total stupidity about why people are willing to pay stupid money for a tag in Utah! It either sucks because I can't get a tag or it's the best because rich a-holes buy the tag I can't get !
>No where else can a couple
>of haters screw up a
>thread about tag prices and
>show their total stupidity about
>why people are willing to
>pay stupid money for a
>tag in Utah! It either
>sucks because I can't get
>a tag or it's the
>best because rich a-holes buy
>the tag I can't get
>!
Go bark up another tree there dog, LOL! Just admit that SFW has screwed up Utah with all those tags taken from the common guys and it's no better than any other western state the way they and the DWR run it! Utah doesn't suck either way for me because I'm smart enough not to play the SFW game!
>of haters screw up a
>thread about tag prices and
>show their total stupidity about
>why people are willing to
>pay stupid money for a
>tag in Utah! It either
>sucks because I can't get
>a tag or it's the
>best because rich a-holes buy
>the tag I can't get
>!
Go bark up another tree there dog, LOL! Just admit that SFW has screwed up Utah with all those tags taken from the common guys and it's no better than any other western state the way they and the DWR run it! Utah doesn't suck either way for me because I'm smart enough not to play the SFW game!
All the millions of dollars made at the expo and the deer hunting in Utah isn't even close to the best.
Not to mention that Utah does a lot of conservation work in these premium units but doesn't do any work in my GS unit.
Hoss got this right.
The deer population and quality in Utah should be much better considering the pimping that goes on.
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
Not to mention that Utah does a lot of conservation work in these premium units but doesn't do any work in my GS unit.
Hoss got this right.
The deer population and quality in Utah should be much better considering the pimping that goes on.
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
Zim
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,291
corndog,
All I did was state a fact. That Randy Newburg suggests new hunters totally pass on Utah and apply elsewhere, because it has poor bang for your buck. Why do you choose to trash me rather than Randy???
*****************************************************
http://kutv.com/news/local/allegations-of-corruption-surround-utah-hungtin-and-conservation-expo
https://www.cascwild.org/don-peay-the-man-who-would-be-king-baron/
All I did was state a fact. That Randy Newburg suggests new hunters totally pass on Utah and apply elsewhere, because it has poor bang for your buck. Why do you choose to trash me rather than Randy???
*****************************************************
http://kutv.com/news/local/allegations-of-corruption-surround-utah-hungtin-and-conservation-expo
https://www.cascwild.org/don-peay-the-man-who-would-be-king-baron/
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,502
> Why if I'm
>offered to buy tickets as
>a non resident 600 miles
>away on line and pay
>for them but have to
>travel 600 mIles to make
>the tickets valid seems illegal.
>
That's the other half of the screw job. Setting the obvious aside, when $fw goes to the gov or legislature(THE DON) to get something(money for BGF magic wolf fence) they claim they speak for a majority of sportsman. They can use their head count from the expo to show their "popularity"
If you could do an online purchase, there would be a tiny handful of fanboys. Would be tough to claim it as a huge success without that head count.
Oh. To show how $FW is the champion for the average guy. You get to haul your butt here to validate your tag. But those big money tags, those deep pocket dudes, they don't have to show up. They can get their tags on the phone. You know, it would be hard for a guy to drop $290k for a deer, AND have to come to SLC.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>offered to buy tickets as
>a non resident 600 miles
>away on line and pay
>for them but have to
>travel 600 mIles to make
>the tickets valid seems illegal.
>
That's the other half of the screw job. Setting the obvious aside, when $fw goes to the gov or legislature(THE DON) to get something(money for BGF magic wolf fence) they claim they speak for a majority of sportsman. They can use their head count from the expo to show their "popularity"
If you could do an online purchase, there would be a tiny handful of fanboys. Would be tough to claim it as a huge success without that head count.
Oh. To show how $FW is the champion for the average guy. You get to haul your butt here to validate your tag. But those big money tags, those deep pocket dudes, they don't have to show up. They can get their tags on the phone. You know, it would be hard for a guy to drop $290k for a deer, AND have to come to SLC.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>> Why if I'm
>>offered to buy tickets as
>>a non resident 600 miles
>>away on line and pay
>>for them but have to
>>travel 600 mIles to make
>>the tickets valid seems illegal.
>>
>
>That's the other half of the
>screw job. Setting the
>obvious aside, when $fw goes
>to the gov or legislature(THE
>DON) to get something(money for
>BGF magic wolf fence) they
>claim they speak for a
>majority of sportsman. They
>can use their head count
>from the expo to show
>their "popularity"
>
>If you could do an online
>purchase, there would be a
>tiny handful of fanboys.
>Would be tough to claim
>it as a huge success
>without that head count.
>
>Oh. To show how $FW
>is the champion for the
>average guy. You get
>to haul your butt here
>to validate your tag.
>But those big money tags,
>those deep pocket dudes, they
>don't have to show up.
> They can get their
>tags on the phone. You
>know, it would be hard
>for a guy to drop
>$290k for a deer, AND
>have to come to SLC.
>
>
>
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"
+1... I call it mail fraud.
>>offered to buy tickets as
>>a non resident 600 miles
>>away on line and pay
>>for them but have to
>>travel 600 mIles to make
>>the tickets valid seems illegal.
>>
>
>That's the other half of the
>screw job. Setting the
>obvious aside, when $fw goes
>to the gov or legislature(THE
>DON) to get something(money for
>BGF magic wolf fence) they
>claim they speak for a
>majority of sportsman. They
>can use their head count
>from the expo to show
>their "popularity"
>
>If you could do an online
>purchase, there would be a
>tiny handful of fanboys.
>Would be tough to claim
>it as a huge success
>without that head count.
>
>Oh. To show how $FW
>is the champion for the
>average guy. You get
>to haul your butt here
>to validate your tag.
>But those big money tags,
>those deep pocket dudes, they
>don't have to show up.
> They can get their
>tags on the phone. You
>know, it would be hard
>for a guy to drop
>$290k for a deer, AND
>have to come to SLC.
>
>
>
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"
+1... I call it mail fraud.
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-18 AT 08:56AM (MST)[p]>Good question. As soon as TOPGUN
>finishes watching Olympic figure skating,
>he can answer that question
>for you.
You are quite the smartazz there Karen! I haven't watched a single minute of the Olympics if you must know. Now I have a question for you. What is your real name? Are you scared someone might look you up in a dark alley some night if you put up your name and where you live, LOL?!!!
>finishes watching Olympic figure skating,
>he can answer that question
>for you.
You are quite the smartazz there Karen! I haven't watched a single minute of the Olympics if you must know. Now I have a question for you. What is your real name? Are you scared someone might look you up in a dark alley some night if you put up your name and where you live, LOL?!!!
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-18 AT 09:38AM (MST)[p]I am glad to see folks sharing their opinions on the Expo. My views have not changed. The Expo was created by and for SFW and MDF with little oversight or accountability from the DWR. When sportsmen began expressing concern, the DWR imposed rules requiring the groups to spend 30% Expo tag application fees on approved conservation projects. The remaining 70% remains largely unaccounted for and is supposedly spent by the groups on "policies, programs, projects and personnel" with no accounting or reporting requirements. Based upon the most recent Expo contract renewal, SFW and MDF have the Expo tags locked up for 10 years (2017-2021 + another 5 year option - 2022-2026). Therefore, nothing is going to change any time soon with the Expo tags. If a guy wants a shot at those tags then he is going to have to plug his nose play by the rules put in place by the DWR, SFW and MDF.
With regards to the question of whether the quality of hunting in Utah has improved proportionally to the massive number of conservation and expo permits issued in Utah, I personally do not think the Utah sportsmen have received enough of a return on 500+ premium tags issued every year to justify those numbers. In my experience, Utah does not have the worst hunting in the West but we also do not have the best hunting. I believe our hunting and management is average among other western states despite Utah issuing more high dollar tags then all of the other western states combined. I am not a fan of the "Utah Model" of commercializing and selling hundreds of premium tags, and I hope it does not spread to other western states.
-Hawkeye-
With regards to the question of whether the quality of hunting in Utah has improved proportionally to the massive number of conservation and expo permits issued in Utah, I personally do not think the Utah sportsmen have received enough of a return on 500+ premium tags issued every year to justify those numbers. In my experience, Utah does not have the worst hunting in the West but we also do not have the best hunting. I believe our hunting and management is average among other western states despite Utah issuing more high dollar tags then all of the other western states combined. I am not a fan of the "Utah Model" of commercializing and selling hundreds of premium tags, and I hope it does not spread to other western states.
-Hawkeye-
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-18
>AT 09:38?AM (MST)
>
>I am glad to see folks
>sharing their opinions on the
>Expo. My views have
>not changed. The Expo
>was created by and for
>SFW and MDF with little
>oversight or accountability from the
>DWR. When sportsmen began
>expressing concern, the DWR imposed
>rules requiring the groups to
>spend 30% Expo tag application
>fees on approved conservation projects.
> The remaining 70% remains
>largely unaccounted for and is
>supposedly spent by the groups
>on "policies, programs, projects and
>personnel" with no accounting or
>reporting requirements. Based upon
>the most recent Expo contract
>renewal, SFW and MDF have
>the Expo tags locked up
>for 10 years (2017-2021 +
>another 5 year option -
>2022-2026). Therefore, nothing is
>going to change any time
>soon with the Expo tags.
> If a guy wants
>a shot at those tags
>then he is going to
>have to plug his nose
>play by the rules put
>in place by the DWR,
>SFW and MDF.
>
>With regards to the question of
>whether the quality of hunting
>in Utah has improved proportionally
>to the massive number of
>conservation and expo permits issued
>in Utah, I personally do
>not think the Utah sportsmen
>have received enough of a
>return on 500+ premium tags
>issued every year to justify
>those numbers. In my
>experience, Utah does not have
>the worst hunting in the
>West but we also do
>not have the best hunting.
> I believe our hunting
>and management is average among
>other western states despite Utah
>issuing more high dollar tags
>then all of the other
>western states combined. I
>am not a fan of
>the "Utah Model" of commercializing
>and selling hundreds of premium
>tags, and I hope it
>does not spread to other
>western states.
>
>-Hawkeye-
+ 1
>AT 09:38?AM (MST)
>
>I am glad to see folks
>sharing their opinions on the
>Expo. My views have
>not changed. The Expo
>was created by and for
>SFW and MDF with little
>oversight or accountability from the
>DWR. When sportsmen began
>expressing concern, the DWR imposed
>rules requiring the groups to
>spend 30% Expo tag application
>fees on approved conservation projects.
> The remaining 70% remains
>largely unaccounted for and is
>supposedly spent by the groups
>on "policies, programs, projects and
>personnel" with no accounting or
>reporting requirements. Based upon
>the most recent Expo contract
>renewal, SFW and MDF have
>the Expo tags locked up
>for 10 years (2017-2021 +
>another 5 year option -
>2022-2026). Therefore, nothing is
>going to change any time
>soon with the Expo tags.
> If a guy wants
>a shot at those tags
>then he is going to
>have to plug his nose
>play by the rules put
>in place by the DWR,
>SFW and MDF.
>
>With regards to the question of
>whether the quality of hunting
>in Utah has improved proportionally
>to the massive number of
>conservation and expo permits issued
>in Utah, I personally do
>not think the Utah sportsmen
>have received enough of a
>return on 500+ premium tags
>issued every year to justify
>those numbers. In my
>experience, Utah does not have
>the worst hunting in the
>West but we also do
>not have the best hunting.
> I believe our hunting
>and management is average among
>other western states despite Utah
>issuing more high dollar tags
>then all of the other
>western states combined. I
>am not a fan of
>the "Utah Model" of commercializing
>and selling hundreds of premium
>tags, and I hope it
>does not spread to other
>western states.
>
>-Hawkeye-
+ 1
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,502
>>LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-18
>>AT 09:38?AM (MST)
>>
>>I am glad to see folks
>>sharing their opinions on the
>>Expo. My views have
>>not changed. The Expo
>>was created by and for
>>SFW and MDF with little
>>oversight or accountability from the
>>DWR. When sportsmen began
>>expressing concern, the DWR imposed
>>rules requiring the groups to
>>spend 30% Expo tag application
>>fees on approved conservation projects.
>> The remaining 70% remains
>>largely unaccounted for and is
>>supposedly spent by the groups
>>on "policies, programs, projects and
>>personnel" with no accounting or
>>reporting requirements. Based upon
>>the most recent Expo contract
>>renewal, SFW and MDF have
>>the Expo tags locked up
>>for 10 years (2017-2021 +
>>another 5 year option -
>>2022-2026). Therefore, nothing is
>>going to change any time
>>soon with the Expo tags.
>> If a guy wants
>>a shot at those tags
>>then he is going to
>>have to plug his nose
>>play by the rules put
>>in place by the DWR,
>>SFW and MDF.
>>
>>With regards to the question of
>>whether the quality of hunting
>>in Utah has improved proportionally
>>to the massive number of
>>conservation and expo permits issued
>>in Utah, I personally do
>>not think the Utah sportsmen
>>have received enough of a
>>return on 500+ premium tags
>>issued every year to justify
>>those numbers. In my
>>experience, Utah does not have
>>the worst hunting in the
>>West but we also do
>>not have the best hunting.
>> I believe our hunting
>>and management is average among
>>other western states despite Utah
>>issuing more high dollar tags
>>then all of the other
>>western states combined. I
>>am not a fan of
>>the "Utah Model" of commercializing
>>and selling hundreds of premium
>>tags, and I hope it
>>does not spread to other
>>western states.
>>
>>-Hawkeye-
>
>
> + 1
+2. Hawkeye must write a little for a living?
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>>AT 09:38?AM (MST)
>>
>>I am glad to see folks
>>sharing their opinions on the
>>Expo. My views have
>>not changed. The Expo
>>was created by and for
>>SFW and MDF with little
>>oversight or accountability from the
>>DWR. When sportsmen began
>>expressing concern, the DWR imposed
>>rules requiring the groups to
>>spend 30% Expo tag application
>>fees on approved conservation projects.
>> The remaining 70% remains
>>largely unaccounted for and is
>>supposedly spent by the groups
>>on "policies, programs, projects and
>>personnel" with no accounting or
>>reporting requirements. Based upon
>>the most recent Expo contract
>>renewal, SFW and MDF have
>>the Expo tags locked up
>>for 10 years (2017-2021 +
>>another 5 year option -
>>2022-2026). Therefore, nothing is
>>going to change any time
>>soon with the Expo tags.
>> If a guy wants
>>a shot at those tags
>>then he is going to
>>have to plug his nose
>>play by the rules put
>>in place by the DWR,
>>SFW and MDF.
>>
>>With regards to the question of
>>whether the quality of hunting
>>in Utah has improved proportionally
>>to the massive number of
>>conservation and expo permits issued
>>in Utah, I personally do
>>not think the Utah sportsmen
>>have received enough of a
>>return on 500+ premium tags
>>issued every year to justify
>>those numbers. In my
>>experience, Utah does not have
>>the worst hunting in the
>>West but we also do
>>not have the best hunting.
>> I believe our hunting
>>and management is average among
>>other western states despite Utah
>>issuing more high dollar tags
>>then all of the other
>>western states combined. I
>>am not a fan of
>>the "Utah Model" of commercializing
>>and selling hundreds of premium
>>tags, and I hope it
>>does not spread to other
>>western states.
>>
>>-Hawkeye-
>
>
> + 1
+2. Hawkeye must write a little for a living?
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-18 AT 02:48PM (MST)[p]>Hawkeye
>
>Does that contract stop outside audits?
> Cam we force through
>an outside audits, realizing who
>is on WB.
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"
Hossblur: I think Hawkeye will tell you that the guys running SFW are not stupid. They have to give back 30% of each $5 raffle ticket fee, as well as what the contract requires for all the auction tags (they keep 10% I think). There is nothing we can do as far as the tax status of the organization when they submit their IRS tax returns, which are available to the public. What is really ridiculous is how loose the IRS is when you see the line items they post on those returns and how they use them to maintain their charitable status. Their direct link with BGF, which is not a charitable organization under the tax code,is a good example of where money goes that is never accounted for like a good share of the millions they make on that Expo every year. Then they have the balls to write a big check for the publicity cameras to present to the DWR like they are really doing the state of Utah a world of good with money that they have to give back and it isn't squat compared to the bid that RMEF put in. The DWR BS that then came out about why the SFW bid was so much better was absolutely ludicrous when RMEF has millions of dollars coming in by credit cards and runs a couple huge national shows every year!
>
>Does that contract stop outside audits?
> Cam we force through
>an outside audits, realizing who
>is on WB.
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"
Hossblur: I think Hawkeye will tell you that the guys running SFW are not stupid. They have to give back 30% of each $5 raffle ticket fee, as well as what the contract requires for all the auction tags (they keep 10% I think). There is nothing we can do as far as the tax status of the organization when they submit their IRS tax returns, which are available to the public. What is really ridiculous is how loose the IRS is when you see the line items they post on those returns and how they use them to maintain their charitable status. Their direct link with BGF, which is not a charitable organization under the tax code,is a good example of where money goes that is never accounted for like a good share of the millions they make on that Expo every year. Then they have the balls to write a big check for the publicity cameras to present to the DWR like they are really doing the state of Utah a world of good with money that they have to give back and it isn't squat compared to the bid that RMEF put in. The DWR BS that then came out about why the SFW bid was so much better was absolutely ludicrous when RMEF has millions of dollars coming in by credit cards and runs a couple huge national shows every year!
Robiland
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,060
I would be interested to know where the guys buying these tags at the expo live. I am sure most of them are from out of state guys. Why would they not just sit back and buy tags at their own state auctions? Why would other states send their few, very few tags to Utah to Auction off at the Expo? Because that is where the most corruption of Wildlife is happening and every one wants a piece of the pie.
But honestly, are the majority of the guys buying tags from Utah or out of state?
But honestly, are the majority of the guys buying tags from Utah or out of state?
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-18 AT 02:51PM (MST)[p]>Top, did I understand your post
>where SFW, MDF only gives
>10% back to the state.
>
>Robiland, the other states send their
>big tags to the expo
>because they can get more
>money. With some states
>tags, 100% goes back to
>the that state.
The sentence was not completed properly and was corrected after I read your post to show that SFW/MDF gets 10% and I said "I think" not knowing if that was across the board or not.
>where SFW, MDF only gives
>10% back to the state.
>
>Robiland, the other states send their
>big tags to the expo
>because they can get more
>money. With some states
>tags, 100% goes back to
>the that state.
The sentence was not completed properly and was corrected after I read your post to show that SFW/MDF gets 10% and I said "I think" not knowing if that was across the board or not.
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-18 AT 03:15PM (MST)[p]Top and Bird-
Just to be clear, the conservation (auction) permits have much more robust accounting and transparency requirements. In simple terms, 90% of the proceeds from conservation permits must be spent on approved conservation projects or returned to the DWR. The groups are allowed to keep the remaining 10% to cover adminsitrative expenses. In addition, the groups are required to file an annual report showing how the 90% was spent and the DWR performs an annual audit of the group's use of those funds. It is too bad the DWR did not impose similar requirements on the funds raised from the Expo tags. We need to be careful not to confuse the two sets of tags (Expo tags and Conservation Tags) and to understand the rules and requirements that apply to each set of tags.
Bird, I saw you at the SFW booth during the Expo. I was going to stop by and say hello but you were busy chatting with a group of sportsmen . . . and I did not want to get tarred and by your SFW buddies. ;-)
-Hawkeye-
Just to be clear, the conservation (auction) permits have much more robust accounting and transparency requirements. In simple terms, 90% of the proceeds from conservation permits must be spent on approved conservation projects or returned to the DWR. The groups are allowed to keep the remaining 10% to cover adminsitrative expenses. In addition, the groups are required to file an annual report showing how the 90% was spent and the DWR performs an annual audit of the group's use of those funds. It is too bad the DWR did not impose similar requirements on the funds raised from the Expo tags. We need to be careful not to confuse the two sets of tags (Expo tags and Conservation Tags) and to understand the rules and requirements that apply to each set of tags.
Bird, I saw you at the SFW booth during the Expo. I was going to stop by and say hello but you were busy chatting with a group of sportsmen . . . and I did not want to get tarred and by your SFW buddies. ;-)
-Hawkeye-
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-18 AT 03:25PM (MST)[p]Yes Hawkeye, I was aware of the difference and just didn't word that sentence properly regarding the auction tags. It would be interesting again to know what the total number of raffle tickets sold this year was and to multiply $1.50 times that total ticket sale to see what went straight to SFW/MDF just from them alone. Then add the entry fee for those thousands that went into the Expo itself, along with the profit made from selling booth space, food/beverages, etc. and then even after expenses to see how many million dollars was made and actually goes back into conservation out of that total profit. We'll never know because of the lack of transparency and the way they "cook" the IRS returns as much as possible each year, but I'd bet the percentage that goes into the SFW/MDF coffers is a lot more than is put out on the ground in Utah!
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-18 AT 04:03PM (MST)[p]Topgun, you are slightly off track again. In order to determine the SFW/MDF take from the Expo tag applications, you would multiply the number of applications by $3.50, not $1.50. Under the DWR rules, the conservation organization retains $3.50 of each $5.00 application fee for administrative expenses. See https://wildlife.utah.gov/rules-reg...981-r657-55--wildlife-convention-permits.html
-Hawkeye-
-Hawkeye-
joesikora
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,272
I have a thought about what was said ?that you can buy online but have to validate in person?.
Doesn?t that rule bring thousands of people and hundreds of thousands of dollars to the state of Utah and to some of your family, friends and neighbors that might have small to large businesses that get a boost coming from all the tourist from across the US and all different walks of life? And wouldn't it make the odds even worst if you can enter and win online?
I'm not wanting to start a storm here, it just crossed my mind.
Thanks for your time
Joe
"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
Doesn?t that rule bring thousands of people and hundreds of thousands of dollars to the state of Utah and to some of your family, friends and neighbors that might have small to large businesses that get a boost coming from all the tourist from across the US and all different walks of life? And wouldn't it make the odds even worst if you can enter and win online?
I'm not wanting to start a storm here, it just crossed my mind.
Thanks for your time
Joe
"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,591
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-18 AT 04:36PM (MST)[p]>Robiland, the other states send their
>big tags to the expo
>because they can get more
>money.
No doubt about it. The Expo is a fun event and well-run. Obviously, these states sending their tags to the Expo is indicative of the Expo and in no way a tacit support of SFW or any other organization. This is analogous to the fact that attending the Expo does not mean one supports SFW.
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>big tags to the expo
>because they can get more
>money.
No doubt about it. The Expo is a fun event and well-run. Obviously, these states sending their tags to the Expo is indicative of the Expo and in no way a tacit support of SFW or any other organization. This is analogous to the fact that attending the Expo does not mean one supports SFW.
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>corndog,
>
>All I did was state a
>fact. That Randy Newburg
>suggests new hunters totally pass
>on Utah and apply elsewhere,
>because it has poor bang
>for your buck. Why
>do you choose to trash
>me rather than Randy???
>
>*****************************************************
>
>http://kutv.com/news/local/allegations-of-corruption-surround-utah-hungtin-and-conservation-expo
>
>https://www.cascwild.org/don-peay-the-man-who-would-be-king-baron/
Zim you're way to sensitive I did not trash you I actually agreed 100% with your post
>
>All I did was state a
>fact. That Randy Newburg
>suggests new hunters totally pass
>on Utah and apply elsewhere,
>because it has poor bang
>for your buck. Why
>do you choose to trash
>me rather than Randy???
>
>*****************************************************
>
>http://kutv.com/news/local/allegations-of-corruption-surround-utah-hungtin-and-conservation-expo
>
>https://www.cascwild.org/don-peay-the-man-who-would-be-king-baron/
Zim you're way to sensitive I did not trash you I actually agreed 100% with your post
>I would be interested to see
>the actual numbers on this.
>Do you have these numbers?
>I would only be concerned
>with antlered species, since this
>has turned into a trophy
>hunting comparison, and a cow
>elk isn't exactly the trophy
>you all are talking about.
>
>
>Not saying you're wrong, I'd just
>be interested to know the
>total numbers.
I don't have all the numbers, I am just inferring from the little knowledge I do have access to. I don't have time to search each state website to find all the necessary comparisons, but I feel like you can infer where each state lies by how they issue tags.
If I am reading Utah's number's correctly in 2015 they issued just over 66,000 general deer tags. In the same year Idaho issued almost 139,000 general deer tags. I have no idea how many controlled tags (limited entry) Utah issued in 2015, but in 2015 Idaho issued 18,481 controlled deer tags. Of course, some of the controlled tags would be anterless (all general tags would be antlered tags), but I think with those numbers you get the point.
This isn't even mentioning the fact that in Utah a general deer tag is only good for a specific area during a specific season, while an Idaho general deer tag allows you to hunt archery for the month of September, rifle for at least two weeks in October, and late muzzleloader and archery tags into November and December. Idaho tags also allow you to hunt any general unit in the state. Looking at it this way, an Idaho deer tag is honestly like having 2 or 3 Utah deer tags.
Montana has probably even more liberal seasons and opportunities than Idaho. Wyoming and Arizona have tons of opportunities you can hunt every year.
I know this is just one area, but I think with that example you can infer that Utah really doesn't offer the opportunity that the rest of the west offers.
Utah just really can't get around the fact that they have chosen quality over opportunity, and even with that choice they do not produce more quality than all the other states around them.
I do NOT think that Utah has the worst hunting in the west. Utah's trophy potential is on par with every other state in the west. Somehow every other state in the west just manages to do it without the millions that the expo raises and without limiting hunters, especially resident hunters, as bad as Utah.
>the actual numbers on this.
>Do you have these numbers?
>I would only be concerned
>with antlered species, since this
>has turned into a trophy
>hunting comparison, and a cow
>elk isn't exactly the trophy
>you all are talking about.
>
>
>Not saying you're wrong, I'd just
>be interested to know the
>total numbers.
I don't have all the numbers, I am just inferring from the little knowledge I do have access to. I don't have time to search each state website to find all the necessary comparisons, but I feel like you can infer where each state lies by how they issue tags.
If I am reading Utah's number's correctly in 2015 they issued just over 66,000 general deer tags. In the same year Idaho issued almost 139,000 general deer tags. I have no idea how many controlled tags (limited entry) Utah issued in 2015, but in 2015 Idaho issued 18,481 controlled deer tags. Of course, some of the controlled tags would be anterless (all general tags would be antlered tags), but I think with those numbers you get the point.
This isn't even mentioning the fact that in Utah a general deer tag is only good for a specific area during a specific season, while an Idaho general deer tag allows you to hunt archery for the month of September, rifle for at least two weeks in October, and late muzzleloader and archery tags into November and December. Idaho tags also allow you to hunt any general unit in the state. Looking at it this way, an Idaho deer tag is honestly like having 2 or 3 Utah deer tags.
Montana has probably even more liberal seasons and opportunities than Idaho. Wyoming and Arizona have tons of opportunities you can hunt every year.
I know this is just one area, but I think with that example you can infer that Utah really doesn't offer the opportunity that the rest of the west offers.
Utah just really can't get around the fact that they have chosen quality over opportunity, and even with that choice they do not produce more quality than all the other states around them.
I do NOT think that Utah has the worst hunting in the west. Utah's trophy potential is on par with every other state in the west. Somehow every other state in the west just manages to do it without the millions that the expo raises and without limiting hunters, especially resident hunters, as bad as Utah.
>Topgun, you are slightly off track
>again. In order to
>determine the SFW/MDF take from
>the Expo tag applications, you
>would multiply the number of
>applications by $3.50, not $1.50.
> Under the DWR rules,
>the conservation organization retains $3.50
>of each $5.00 application fee
>for administrative expenses. See
>https://wildlife.utah.gov/rules-reg...981-r657-55--wildlife-convention-permits.html
>
>-Hawkeye-
So we went from where they were keeping the entire $5, then to 30% of that money when hell was raised, and now they can keep $3.50 of each $5! That even makes it a lot worse than I thought it was. Thanks for the clarification!
>again. In order to
>determine the SFW/MDF take from
>the Expo tag applications, you
>would multiply the number of
>applications by $3.50, not $1.50.
> Under the DWR rules,
>the conservation organization retains $3.50
>of each $5.00 application fee
>for administrative expenses. See
>https://wildlife.utah.gov/rules-reg...981-r657-55--wildlife-convention-permits.html
>
>-Hawkeye-
So we went from where they were keeping the entire $5, then to 30% of that money when hell was raised, and now they can keep $3.50 of each $5! That even makes it a lot worse than I thought it was. Thanks for the clarification!
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,502
>I have a thought about what
>was said ?that you can
>buy online but have to
>validate in person?.
>
>Doesn?t that rule bring thousands of
>people and hundreds of thousands
>of dollars to the state
>of Utah and to some
>of your family, friends and
>neighbors that might have small
>to large businesses that get
>a boost coming from all
>the tourist from across the
>US and all different walks
>of life? And wouldn't it
>make the odds even worst
>if you can enter and
>win online?
>
>I'm not wanting to start a
>storm here, it just crossed
>my mind.
>
>Thanks for your time
>
>Joe
>
>"Sometimes you do things wrong for
>so long you
>think their right" - 2001
>"I can't argue with honesty" -
>2005
>-Joe E Sikora
So those dudes that can drop $290k for a deer wouldn't bring money to the local economy?
Have you seen what fuel for those private jets cost?
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>was said ?that you can
>buy online but have to
>validate in person?.
>
>Doesn?t that rule bring thousands of
>people and hundreds of thousands
>of dollars to the state
>of Utah and to some
>of your family, friends and
>neighbors that might have small
>to large businesses that get
>a boost coming from all
>the tourist from across the
>US and all different walks
>of life? And wouldn't it
>make the odds even worst
>if you can enter and
>win online?
>
>I'm not wanting to start a
>storm here, it just crossed
>my mind.
>
>Thanks for your time
>
>Joe
>
>"Sometimes you do things wrong for
>so long you
>think their right" - 2001
>"I can't argue with honesty" -
>2005
>-Joe E Sikora
So those dudes that can drop $290k for a deer wouldn't bring money to the local economy?
Have you seen what fuel for those private jets cost?
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-18 AT 10:49PM (MST)[p]Exactly!
Someone may go to the expo without applying for any tags. Where some may come and not enter the expo but just validate their application for expo tags.
Then there are some who come and do both.
Last time I tried to look at previous expo tag draw odds, the data was gone from the website. I'm not sure if it's back up or not. But it did show how many applications for each of the 200 tags. Someone just needs to do some history searches from over the years and do alittle basic math to get the numbers.
Any takers?
I think the Henry mountain rifle deer tag has nearly 10k applicants alone! That's 350k$ for one hunt!
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
Someone may go to the expo without applying for any tags. Where some may come and not enter the expo but just validate their application for expo tags.
Then there are some who come and do both.
Last time I tried to look at previous expo tag draw odds, the data was gone from the website. I'm not sure if it's back up or not. But it did show how many applications for each of the 200 tags. Someone just needs to do some history searches from over the years and do alittle basic math to get the numbers.
Any takers?
I think the Henry mountain rifle deer tag has nearly 10k applicants alone! That's 350k$ for one hunt!
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
bonecollector777
Active Member
- Messages
- 460
https://huntexpo.com/odds-at-drawing-an-expo-tag/
There's 2017 for you. Not sure what you were wanting to know from it?
There's 2017 for you. Not sure what you were wanting to know from it?
I added up all the applicants for the 2017 year and the 200 expo tags which came to 247,138 applicants for all 200 expo tags.
247,138 applicants multiplied by $3.50 equals $864,983 that the conservation organizations (SFW MDF) get for personnel, etc.
247,138 multiplied by $1.50 equals $370,707 that the state (DWR gets) for conservation.
These are just dollars for one year and just the 200 expo tags.
These numbers total $1,235,690 made in the 5$ applicants for 2017
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
247,138 applicants multiplied by $3.50 equals $864,983 that the conservation organizations (SFW MDF) get for personnel, etc.
247,138 multiplied by $1.50 equals $370,707 that the state (DWR gets) for conservation.
These are just dollars for one year and just the 200 expo tags.
These numbers total $1,235,690 made in the 5$ applicants for 2017
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,502
>hossblur please look at post #66
>
>
>Joe
>
>"Sometimes you do things wrong for
>so long you
>think their right" - 2001
>"I can't argue with honesty" -
>2005
>-Joe E Sikora
I did. Your assumption is that all the deep pockets come in person, they do not. Some might, but its not a requirement.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>
>
>Joe
>
>"Sometimes you do things wrong for
>so long you
>think their right" - 2001
>"I can't argue with honesty" -
>2005
>-Joe E Sikora
I did. Your assumption is that all the deep pockets come in person, they do not. Some might, but its not a requirement.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
