2018 expo tags posted

Nothing But who in the hell invited Richard Rollins to the Expo ? He was on the Henrys last year for Bison. Heather drew again.
 
>And Sky Simpson drew an elk
>tag and bear tag.



Looks like there are 3 people who each drew 2 tags. So ridiculous that is even allowed.
 
>Had a buddy pull a Wasatch
>Elk. Worth his drive
>from out of state!!!

Muley73, are you the Cody Christensen that drew? Or is that somebody else with same name?

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
Does anyone know who conducted the drawing and validation? I'm currently deployed and was told that they would validate my application due to my service. Even received multiple emails from Chris Carling stating that I would get an email from the validation company stating my applications were accepted, but all I got was an email from him saying I was good to go and now I can't get a response. I'd like to verify that I was indeed in the draws. Any one have any contact info to the company?
 
>KOLISS CARR Must be Hot?
>
>Which Jeff Hansen Drew?
>
>
>
>
>
>

So is Sky Simpson and the Dibble boys with 3 tags...
 
This expo is so rigged what a bunch of ##### it will continue to be like this till people stop going
 
Lmfao bunch of people making the rich richer!
37205hornkiller.jpg
 
Bess,
I got my email so I guess I'll be looking at a few West Desert pisscutters this summer and fall.
 
Jason,
I am not. But having recently relocating to Santaquin will give me a chance to spend the summer learning it. Always fun exploring a new chunk of mountain. My brother in law has spent a lot of time there and should be able to help me focus on some spots.
 
You guys are cracking me up thinking this will change anytime soon. Yes it's confidential on who draws and how the draw is done you should have known that before you applied.

Look at the bright side for those of you who donated 100's of dollars to SFW for this event you now have a charity tax wright off for 2018.
 
There is no way that drawing can be on the up and up when Heather draws at least one tag every year. The odds of that happening in a true random draw is one in millions. She may be good looking, but someone doing the drawing is either getting a little or a lot in return, LOL!
 
Just out of real curiosity, what sense would it make to rig the drawing for heather?

She has the money to buy whatever tag she wants.

I'd assume she puts in for the draws for the chance for a freebie no doubt. But to imply that it is rigged for her and others is just plain silly.

Am I to believe that she paid people off for a free tag?

Especially since she has the resources??

Did mossback arrange it so they'd get the guide fees???

Especially for a book cliffs tag. LOL

They?d get her guide fees anyways.

It isn't rigged.
 
They need to move it out of Utah and somewhere new for a while. Reno or Vegas would be a good start.
 
>Just out of real curiosity, what
>sense would it make to
>rig the drawing for heather?
>
>
>She has the money to buy
>whatever tag she wants.
>
>I'd assume she puts in for
>the draws for the chance
>for a freebie no doubt.
>But to imply that it
>is rigged for her and
>others is just plain silly.
>
>
>Am I to believe that she
>paid people off for a
>free tag?
>
>Especially since she has the resources??
>
>
>Did mossback arrange it so they'd
>get the guide fees???
>
>Especially for a book cliffs tag.
>LOL
>
>They?d get her guide fees anyways.
>
>
>It isn't rigged.

BS! Yep, she has the money and I'm sure knows where the company is that does the draws. All it would take is some $ under the table to the right person to have her name pulled out of the hat every year. There is NO way she could draw that many tags with the odds being what they are if something shady wasn't going on, no way, no way, no way!
 
So why don't you all investigate? Those are pretty big claims of fraud and money being paid.

So who is legit and who pays to play? Did Hawkeye and Robi draw legit or was of fixed? Did I draw legit was or fixed? Was my sister in law fixed or legit, how about the people I work wit, legit or fixed. How about the 2 friends that came from out of state for the first time this year that don't even know SFW exists. Are they fixed or legit? Please give a breakdown of who's legit and who's fixed and have some backing. Really backing not just basing it off of odds and the feeling that there is no way, no way, no way.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-18 AT 02:14PM (MST)[p]>So why don't you all investigate?
> Those are pretty big
>claims of fraud and money
>being paid.
>
>So who is legit and who
>pays to play? Did
>Hawkeye and Robi draw legit
>or was of fixed? Did
>I draw legit was or
>fixed? Was my sister in
>law fixed or legit, how
>about the people I work
>wit, legit or fixed.
>How about the 2 friends
>that came from out of
>state for the first time
>this year that don't even
>know SFW exists. Are
>they fixed or legit?
>Please give a breakdown of
>who's legit and who's fixed
>and have some backing.
>Really backing not just basing
>it off of odds and
>the feeling that there is
>no way, no way, no
>way.

No way will I do any investigating as I retired from that chit 16 years ago! How many times have you drawn a tag and I think you play that raffle every year don't you Cody! All I can say is if a person draws as many tags as that good looking honey has drawn the last 10 years when the odds are what they are, it just smells damn fishy and I don't mean her, LOL! Congrats on drawing your tag and I know you'll give it your best shot at getting a good one!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-18 AT 02:21PM (MST)[p]Top gun.....that has to be one of the dumbest accusations in awhile. She knows where the draw is and pays them off?

Can we please at least try to make the theories believable?

Somebody who has the coin to legitimately buy the tags spend their time and money just buying the hunts. I don't fault her for throwing her name in the drawing. Hell, most people I know that are legitimately loaded with money, all want to try to land a freebie. To go through and try to fraudulently bribe somebody, well, would be real stupid. Why would she risk any of what she has for a freebie tag? Give me a gosh damn break.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-18 AT 02:24PM (MST)[p]>Top gun.....that has to be one
>of the dumbest accusations in
>awhile. She knows where the
>draw is and pays them
>off?
>
>Can we please at least try
>to make the theories believable?
>
>
>Somebody who has the coin to
>legitimately spend their time and
>money just buying the hunts.
>To go through and try
>to fraudulently bribe somebody, well,
>would be real stupid. Why
>would she risk any of
>what she has for a
>freebie tag? Give me a
>gosh damn break.

It may be dumb and sure, it's just an accusation based on the overwhelming odds that one person could draw that many tags in the last few years. Hell, maybe she has a close relative that is involved with the company that draws the tags and it doesn't even cost her any money under the table! I don't play any of those games, but if I did and kept seeing her name come up I'd dang sure be looking into how it's happening every year and one year she drew several tags! If it's all legit, I guess she's as lucky as she is good looking!!!
 
Right on doncrete. This gal has enough money to buy any tag she wants and own the guide. But it's all a conspiracy....
 
>They need to move it out
>of Utah and somewhere new
>for a while. Reno
>or Vegas would be a
>good start.


Lets take the revenue generated from utah big game animals and throw it to the state of nevada.
 
Doesn't look like any AZ boys made the trip to Utah this year as we didn't pull any tags.

All I have to say is that it's pretty sad when the people that got lucky and drew a tag should be happy and rejoicing are suddenly put on the defensive.
 
Per page 68 of SFW/MDF/UFNAWS's Expo RFP and per http://listings.findthecompany.com/l/16467099/Graysky-Technologies.Llc the "company" that does the Expo Draw is GraySky Technologies, LLC. It currently has 2 employees (a husband and wife, I believe) and is located at a home in Murray UT (147 W Clay Park Dr 84107-7090). Ms. Becky Gray is the principle officer (CEO?) and Jerrold Lee Gray is the Chief Technology Officer. It generates an estimated $85,961 in annual revenue.

It has also been known as GraySky Technology and GraySky Simulation. Per www.grayskysim.com it was founded by 3 men, Jerrold Lee Gray, Rajen Shah and Jason Smith and was located in Woodinville WA. (It also was once located at 6110 S. 350 W. Murray UT.)

The blog on the above link gives a history of the company (up to Oct 12, 2015) and some insight into the doings of the "brains" behind the organization. What has happened since is difficult to figure out, but the bottom line is that the Expo drawing now seems to be based solely on one man's ideas. He may be a computer genius, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to rely on only one person to manage a draw that generates $1,000,000 from public resources annually, especially if it causes so much controversy.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-18 AT 11:37AM (MST)[p]>Per page 68 of SFW/MDF/UFNAWS's Expo
>RFP and per http://listings.findthecompany.com/l/16467099/Graysky-Technologies.Llc the
>"company" that does the Expo
>Draw is GraySky Technologies, LLC.
>It currently has 2 employees
>(a husband and wife, I
>believe) and is located at
>a home in Murray UT
>(147 W Clay Park Dr
>84107-7090). Ms. Becky Gray is
>the principle officer (CEO?) and
>Jerrold Lee Gray is the
>Chief Technology Officer. It generates
>an estimated $85,961 in annual
>revenue.
>
>It has also been known as
>GraySky Technology and GraySky Simulation.
>Per www.grayskysim.com it was founded
>by 3 men, Jerrold Lee
>Gray, Rajen Shah and Jason
>Smith and was located in
>Woodinville WA. (It also was
>once located at 6110 S.
>350 W. Murray UT.)
>
>The blog on the above link
>gives a history of the
>company (up to Oct 12,
>2015) and some insight into
>the doings of the "brains"
>behind the organization. What has
>happened since is difficult to
>figure out, but the bottom
>line is that the Expo
>drawing now seems to be
>based solely on one man's
>ideas. He may be a
>computer genius, but I'm not
>sure it's a good idea
>to rely on only one
>person to manage a draw
>that generates $1,000,000 from public
>resources annually, especially if it
>causes so much controversy.

Thanks for that post Lee! So it's a company right in Utah consisting of just two people, a husband and wife, that also own the business that only makes a profit of $80K+ a year. Geez, I wonder since there seems to be absolutely no control or audit by an independent company for the DWR to see that the draw is done on the up and up what the chances of them taking a little money under the table from someone would be to have their name drawn for a tag! Naw, that couldn't be happening in this day and age where everyone is so honest on stuff like this, LOL! I wonder if they are also members of SFW or close kin to one of the higher ups in the organization. Naw, that also couldn't happen in this day and age!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-18 AT 01:31PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-18
>AT 11:37?AM (MST)

>
>>Per page 68 of SFW/MDF/UFNAWS's Expo
>>RFP and per http://listings.findthecompany.com/l/16467099/Graysky-Technologies.Llc the
>>"company" that does the Expo
>>Draw is GraySky Technologies, LLC.
>>It currently has 2 employees
>>(a husband and wife, I
>>believe) and is located at
>>a home in Murray UT
>>(147 W Clay Park Dr
>>84107-7090). Ms. Becky Gray is
>>the principle officer (CEO?) and
>>Jerrold Lee Gray is the
>>Chief Technology Officer. It generates
>>an estimated $85,961 in annual
>>revenue.
>>
>>It has also been known as
>>GraySky Technology and GraySky Simulation.
>>Per www.grayskysim.com it was founded
>>by 3 men, Jerrold Lee
>>Gray, Rajen Shah and Jason
>>Smith and was located in
>>Woodinville WA. (It also was
>>once located at 6110 S.
>>350 W. Murray UT.)
>>
>>The blog on the above link
>>gives a history of the
>>company (up to Oct 12,
>>2015) and some insight into
>>the doings of the "brains"
>>behind the organization. What has
>>happened since is difficult to
>>figure out, but the bottom
>>line is that the Expo
>>drawing now seems to be
>>based solely on one man's
>>ideas. He may be a
>>computer genius, but I'm not
>>sure it's a good idea
>>to rely on only one
>>person to manage a draw
>>that generates $1,000,000 from public
>>resources annually, especially if it
>>causes so much controversy.
>
>Thanks for that post Lee!
>So it's a company right
>in Utah consisting of just
>two people, a husband and
>wife, that also own the
>business that only makes a
>profit of $80K+ a year.
> Geez, I wonder since
>there seems to be absolutely
>no control or audit by
>an independent company for the
>DWR to see that the
>draw is done on the
>up and up what the
>chances of them taking a
>little money under the table
>from someone would be to
>have their name drawn for
>a tag! Naw, that
>couldn't be happening in this
>day and age where everyone
>is so honest on stuff
>like this, LOL! I
>wonder if they are also
>members of SFW or close
>kin to one of the
>higher ups in the organization.
> Naw, that also couldn't
>happen in this day and
>age!

Actually, that $85,961 is total REVENUE, not profit! I don't know what the profit is, though they obviously don't have much overhead, pun intended. (Office in the basement? :) )

And there is an audit of sorts. The draw is actually done on the Tuesday following the close of the Expo at the Salt Lake DWR office, at 9:00am. The draw takes about 12 to 15 minutes. It's an open public meeting where they have some of the attendees sign a statement that verify the results, and then that report is available at the DWR/Wildlife Board Expo Permit Audit meeting, which this year is Aug 30.
 
>Actually, that $85,961 is total REVENUE,
>not profit! I don't know
>what the profit is, though
>they obviously don't have much
>overhead, pun intended. (Office in
>the basement? :) )
>
>And there is an audit of
>sorts. The draw is actually
>done on the Tuesday following
>the close of the Expo
>at the Salt Lake DWR
>office, at 9:00am. The draw
>takes about 12 to 15
>minutes. It's an open public
>meeting where they have some
>of the attendees sign a
>statement that verify the results,
>and then that report is
>available at the DWR/Wildlife Board
>Expo Permit Audit meeting, which
>this year is Aug 30.


*** I assumed the word "revenue" was just another word to mean "profit" and that may or may not be true in this case. In any event IMHO this system is ripe for abuse just like the lack of transparency in where all the profits go from the Expo. Just because a few people are there for the drawing and "verify the results" in no way means that they have any idea if it was done properly if it involves computers and software. Nope, as long as the SFW and their DWR cronies are involved in anything like this I will remain very skeptical and IMHO most everyone else should be too!
 
Does any of you know if this is their primary source of income or a side business. Lots of conclusions being drawn. I find it interesting how many detectives are involved with this. Dig in boys. Find some proof
 
For what it is worth, the DWR performs an "audit" of the Expo program each year. Their "audit" is not a real audit but it does contain information regarding GraySky Technologies, the process used to draw winners and the actual drawing. Perhaps this document will answer some of your questions or lead to additional questions. The Expo tag audit begins on page 135/154 of the following link: https://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/board/2017-08_board_packet.pdf

-Hawkeye-
 
Yes- it's rigged because she drew a So.Book Cliffs Tag- the most coveted tag in the state- even though she can buy the state wide GovElk, Gov Deer - sling a 100k Henry?s tag and not even blink- but yes she's on the hook for a book Cliffs Tag or the Pauns Tag she drew 2 years ago? I don't get the hate- I'm pretty sure she drops the money for the entire package every year- what's that $600 or $800 (not sure) regardless she probably buys the entire package every year. I only know of the 2 Tags- the only ?common denominator? I see is the rich put in every year for every tag vs. us normal folk that can only drop $100 or 2 at the most severely dropping our odds- I thought Fallon NV did the draw. I don't know how it could be rigged. I don't think she is doing backflips over a piece of ##### Book Cliffs Tag when she can afford any tag she wants. It's rigged unless you draw them it's not rigged- I've never drawn an expo tag- and ya it sucks but I will keep going and keep trying every year- same with the Sportsmans tag and the reg hunt draw- one of these days I will draw and guess what? Everyone who didn't will still be bitching and calling foul!! WhatEv - Hunters vs Hunters keep up the good work- you whiners are pathetic. God forbid hunters supporting hunters- jealous assholes??
 
Wow Residents cleaned up this year!
Congrats

162 tags R

38 tags NR

Joe

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
 
>Here's an idea for all the
>conspiracy theorists. Prove
>it or shut the hell
>up.


^^^^ what he said.....
 
>>Here's an idea for all the
>>conspiracy theorists. Prove
>>it or shut the hell
>>up.
>
>
>^^^^ what he said.....


You guys have to be kidding. Are the facts not proof enough? Obviously we will never be allowed to view the code. That's the only true way of knowing. We need transparency!

I mean these tags are removed from the public draw. They are public resource. The method for removing them should be public!! But it's not. They RMEF offered full transparency, 100% of revenue return. The SFW kept with their crappy offer and provides zero transparency. So keep up with telling us to shut up, but will will continue to defend our public resources!
 
>Here's an idea for all the
>conspiracy theorists. Prove
>it or shut the hell
>up.

The circumstantial evidence has easily cleared the bar for reasonable suspicion. But ultimately, since the organization in question is taking public property, they have the duty to prove they're doing it right.

If they want to stand on their own two feet they can be as secretive as they want, when it's our property they're selling they owe us common practices like third-party audits.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
CONGRATS CODY on your LE tag
I'm sure you'll kill a good one

Congrats again

Joe

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
 
Bowhunt, you say the facts are there. Prove it and do something about it. Don't just talk about it. For all you people that sit back and say it's a scam, prove it so it can be shut down. Talks cheap. If it is prove it and put them out of business
 
Question? Why don't they draw the names out of a barrel like a lot of other raffles!
It would end a lot of this stuff. Or am I way off here?

Joe


?Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
 
You're right, Ken. Talk's cheap.

Now head over to the other thread and post up the comparable audited financials and Charity Navigator rating that I provided from RMEF.

You keep challenging people to "prove it" yet you won't post the audited information that other conservation groups provide to assure their donors that their money is well-spent. If a group takes public property, THEY have the duty to "prove it" not the other way around.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
Griz I'm not an accountant. Second you compare two different years, 2013 SFW and 2016 RMEF. OF course ELK foundation is bigger, many more employees that they pay plus the benefits their employees get and from what I see stocks etc. So no their tax forms are not going to look the same. They are legal according to the internal revenue service so the fact that RMEF has their hands in more dealings the reports look different.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-18 AT 10:28PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-18 AT 10:27?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-18 AT 10:25?PM (MST)

>Griz I'm not an accountant.
>Second you compare two different
>years, 2013 SFW and 2016
>RMEF. OF course ELK
>foundation is bigger, many more
>employees that they pay plus
>the benefits their employees get
>and from what I see
>stocks etc. So no
>their tax forms are not
>going to look the same.
> They are legal according
>to the internal revenue service
>so the fact that RMEF
>has their hands in more
>dealings the reports look different.
>

You might not be an accountant, but I am. I primarily audit public companies, so I get to see a lot of different accounts and financial reporting ideas/theories and their compliance or noncompliance with accounting standards. The insanity of an organization, designing their own controls is mind boggling. Quoted from another thread,

"This audit was not performed using generally accepted auditing standards, but is an internal audit designed by the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources Administrative Services Section to ensure compliance with applicable rules and contractual obligations."

I wonder how the DNR would feel if the FASB told them how to manage the state?s buck-to-doe ratio?? I'd absolutely love to audit the internal controls and everything related to the expo - heck I'll even do it for free! There are just too many ?interesting coincidences? going on with this whole ordeal ...
 
>You might not be an accountant,
>but I am. I primarily
>audit public companies, so I
>get to see a lot
>of different accounts and financial
>reporting ideas/theories and their compliance
>or noncompliance with accounting standards.
>The insanity of an organization,
>designing their own controls is
>mind boggling. Quoted from another
>thread,
>
>"This audit was not performed using
>generally accepted auditing standards, but
>is an internal audit designed
>by the Utah Division of
>Wildlife Resources Administrative Services Section
>to ensure compliance with applicable
>rules and contractual obligations."
>
>I wonder how the DNR would
>feel if the FASB told
>them how to manage the
>state?s buck-to-doe ratio?? I'd absolutely
>love to audit the internal
>controls and everything related to
>the expo - heck I'll
>even do it for free!
>There are just too many
>?interesting coincidences? going on with
>this whole ordeal ...

Don't hold your breath waiting for SFW to let you do that free audit! Birdman is a nice guy, as are most all of the SFW defenders. However, all he does is get on each thread involving SFW and defend them with statements that nothing is fraudulent and the money raised goes to conservation and for us to prove our case. Well if SFW was run properly like RMEF with their open audits and easy to get tax records with everything open to scrutiny there wouldn't be a bunch of us questioning everything that involves these huge sums of money they make from tags taken from the public draws. IMHO I have to agree completely with your statement regarding these audits. They are not done to US audit standards with one actually stating right in it that it isn't and that they "do their own thing" (quoted above) in your post. This is the same thing that was done when bids went out for the tags a year ago and RMEF met all the requirements. Then the DWR dicked around and changed everything such that SFW could submit a bid. Even though that bid was so inferior to that of the RMEF that it was ludicrous, SFW was awarded the contract for what, in effect, was the next 10 years with the other 5 year option section they had previously added. Gentlemen, the overall bunch of "on the ground troops" that do all the work are a good bunch, but IMHO the higher ups that are making their living running the SFW the way they are might as well be classified as "legal bank robbers" and the way this draw is done is no exception!
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom