More important than Expo tags

NVBighorn

Long Time Member
Messages
9,458
Utah Attorney General Sean Reyes hints at suing feds over control of public lands

https://www.sltrib.com/news/environ...s-at-suing-feds-over-control-of-public-lands/

By Brian Maffly
?
It's been more than two years since Utah political leaders set aside $4 million for a yet-to-be-filed lawsuit aimed at ?taking back? 31 million acres of public land in the state controlled by the U.S. government.

State leaders have hardly mentioned the land transfer idea of late, while the new administration of President Donald J. Trump delegates ever more control to states and undoes regulations and initiatives that some saw as obstacles to energy development.

But a big Utah lawsuit may still be in the works, relying on a backup plan first offered by the legal consultants hired by the Utah Legislature in 2015. Meeting with rural lawmakers last week, Utah Attorney General Sean Reyes said his office is preparing a lawsuit targeting aspects of the 1976 Federal Land Policy and Management Act (FLPMA) that diminish local and state influence over public lands.

Reyes told members of the Utah Legislature?s Rural Caucus on Friday his office intends to challenge the law that ensures the federal government keeps ownership of pubic land ? although, he said, the lawsuit could be handled by outside lawyers.

Critics contend attacks on the status of public lands goes against the tide of history and could put parochial interests such as resource extraction ahead of national ones, including wildlife habitat and archaeology.
?Instead of driving a wedge between Americans with different values, we should work together to find answers that sustain both America?s public lands and rural communities,? said Chris Wood, president of the conservation group Trout Unlimited.

Reyes? plan mirrors a recommendation made by the legal team hired by the Utah Legislature in 2015 to analyze the prospects for transferring 31 million acres of public land in Utah from federal to state ownership.

Led by the New Orleans-based Davillier Law Group, the team of lawyers urged Utah to file a petition before the U.S. Supreme Court seeking transfer of title to the land, and state legislators created a $4 million war chest to fund such an action.

But the group of private attorneys also offered a less costly alternative: Seek a declaratory judgement that would invalidate a key section of FLPMA, which requires public lands be kept in federal ownership, unless it is determined that disposal serves the national interest.

While not accomplishing full state control of public land, a victory in that kind of legal challenge could resolve Utah?s issues with federal oversight of most of the land within its borders, the legal team wrote.

?The issue would then be thrown to elected representatives at the state and federal level to resolve legislatively, something some members of the court might prefer,? the team wrote. ?A legislative solution, in which the state and Congress can resolve the issue in the manner they feel works best, may be preferable to Utah as well.?

Reyes? representatives seemed to agree. The suit the Utah attorney general envisions would be aimed at ?reforming? FLPMA, according to his spokesman Dan Burton.

?It is decidedly less sexy than land transfer, but we think it's a way to deal with management issues of public lands,? Burton said. ?The main message is we are working to support the president and his administration and what they have done in recent months showing they have heard Utah?s concerns.?

The Davillier report said a piece of FLPMA reversed a 200-year land policy, flipping from ?disposal? to ?near permanent retention? of public lands. That change, they argued, was unfair to Utah, where nearly two-thirds of the land remains in federal hands. As a result, FLMPA locked huge areas in the West under public ownership, impairing the ability of Utah and other public-lands states to grow and control their own destinies.

But the analysis ignores historical contexts that inspired Congress to embrace retention of public lands, according to Robert Keiter, a professor at the University of Utah?s S.J. Quinney College of Law.

Rather than signaling a major policy shift, FLPMA simply put in writing a trend that had been under way for decades, according to Keiter, a public-lands legal expert who heads the U.?s Wallace Stegner Center for Land, Resources, and the Environment.

The government had long ceased systematically giving away federal land because demand had evaporated and the transferred lands were in terrible shape.

?The number of applications for homesteads had diminished dramatically since the turn of the 20th century,? Keiter said. ?Most of the land suitable for homesteading had been claimed and was in private hands and the remaining land was not suitable for homesteading.?

More than a century ago, court rulings affirmed federal retention of land reserves that became national forests, according to Keiter. Since then, the nation?s interest in public lands has evolved in ways that few anticipated, he said, and FLMPA let land managers adapt to these changing needs.
 
>Utah Attorney General Sean Reyes hints
>at suing feds over control
>of public lands
>
>https://www.sltrib.com/news/environ...s-at-suing-feds-over-control-of-public-lands/
>
>By Brian Maffly
> ?
>It's been more than two years
>since Utah political leaders set
>aside $4 million for a
>yet-to-be-filed lawsuit aimed at ?taking
>back? 31 million acres of
>public land in the state
>controlled by the U.S. government.
>
>
>State leaders have hardly mentioned the
>land transfer idea of late,
>while the new administration of
>President Donald J. Trump delegates
>ever more control to states
>and undoes regulations and initiatives
>that some saw as obstacles
>to energy development.
>
>But a big Utah lawsuit may
>still be in the works,
>relying on a backup plan
>first offered by the legal
>consultants hired by the Utah
>Legislature in 2015. Meeting with
>rural lawmakers last week, Utah
>Attorney General Sean Reyes said
>his office is preparing a
>lawsuit targeting aspects of the
>1976 Federal Land Policy and
>Management Act (FLPMA) that diminish
>local and state influence over
>public lands.
>
>Reyes told members of the Utah
>Legislature?s Rural Caucus on Friday
>his office intends to challenge
>the law that ensures the
>federal government keeps ownership of
>pubic land ? although, he
>said, the lawsuit could be
>handled by outside lawyers.
>
>Critics contend attacks on the status
>of public lands goes against
>the tide of history and
>could put parochial interests such
>as resource extraction ahead of
>national ones, including wildlife habitat
>and archaeology.
>?Instead of driving a wedge between
>Americans with different values, we
>should work together to find
>answers that sustain both America?s
>public lands and rural communities,?
>said Chris Wood, president of
>the conservation group Trout Unlimited.
>
>
>Reyes? plan mirrors a recommendation made
>by the legal team hired
>by the Utah Legislature in
>2015 to analyze the prospects
>for transferring 31 million acres
>of public land in Utah
>from federal to state ownership.
>
>
>Led by the New Orleans-based Davillier
>Law Group, the team of
>lawyers urged Utah to file
>a petition before the U.S.
>Supreme Court seeking transfer of
>title to the land, and
>state legislators created a $4
>million war chest to fund
>such an action.
>
>But the group of private attorneys
>also offered a less costly
>alternative: Seek a declaratory judgement
>that would invalidate a key
>section of FLPMA, which requires
>public lands be kept in
>federal ownership, unless it is
>determined that disposal serves the
>national interest.
>
>While not accomplishing full state control
>of public land, a victory
>in that kind of legal
>challenge could resolve Utah?s issues
>with federal oversight of most
>of the land within its
>borders, the legal team wrote.
>
>
>?The issue would then be thrown
>to elected representatives at the
>state and federal level to
>resolve legislatively, something some members
>of the court might prefer,?
>the team wrote. ?A legislative
>solution, in which the state
>and Congress can resolve the
>issue in the manner they
>feel works best, may be
>preferable to Utah as well.?
>
>
>Reyes? representatives seemed to agree. The
>suit the Utah attorney general
>envisions would be aimed at
>?reforming? FLPMA, according to his
>spokesman Dan Burton.
>
>?It is decidedly less sexy than
>land transfer, but we think
>it's a way to deal
>with management issues of public
>lands,? Burton said. ?The main
>message is we are working
>to support the president and
>his administration and what they
>have done in recent months
>showing they have heard Utah?s
>concerns.?
>
>The Davillier report said a piece
>of FLPMA reversed a 200-year
>land policy, flipping from ?disposal?
>to ?near permanent retention? of
>public lands. That change, they
>argued, was unfair to Utah,
>where nearly two-thirds of the
>land remains in federal hands.
>As a result, FLMPA locked
>huge areas in the West
>under public ownership, impairing the
>ability of Utah and other
>public-lands states to grow and
>control their own destinies.
>
>But the analysis ignores historical contexts
>that inspired Congress to embrace
>retention of public lands, according
>to Robert Keiter, a professor
>at the University of Utah?s
>S.J. Quinney College of Law.
>
>
>Rather than signaling a major policy
>shift, FLPMA simply put in
>writing a trend that had
>been under way for decades,
>according to Keiter, a public-lands
>legal expert who heads the
>U.?s Wallace Stegner Center for
>Land, Resources, and the Environment.
>
>
>The government had long ceased systematically
>giving away federal land because
>demand had evaporated and the
>transferred lands were in terrible
>shape.
>
>?The number of applications for homesteads
>had diminished dramatically since the
>turn of the 20th century,?
>Keiter said. ?Most of the
>land suitable for homesteading had
>been claimed and was in
>private hands and the remaining
>land was not suitable for
>homesteading.?
>
>More than a century ago, court
>rulings affirmed federal retention of
>land reserves that became national
>forests, according to Keiter. Since
>then, the nation?s interest in
>public lands has evolved in
>ways that few anticipated, he
>said, and FLMPA let land
>managers adapt to these changing
>needs.


Utah has some real dipshits at the lead. They can sue all they want, but they won't win. This has been proven time and time again, but Utah will continue their push to have State management. Once there is a catastrophic fire that they can't afford to pay for it will be sold off.
 
Hawkeye I completely agree. Attorneys do lead to a lot of wasted money and resources for the state.
 
>The state wouldn't have a leg
>to stand on if the
>feds were more transparent.


The state doesn't have a leg to stand on in this case anyway.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-18 AT 03:01PM (MST)[p]M73-

Touch?. Let's circle back after this effort has run its course and see what we get for our money. Best case scenario, the state flushes millions of dollars down the toilet trying to take over our public lands. Worst case scenario, they somehow succeed and our public lands end up in control of the state, which will lead to the eventual disposition of some or all of those lands. I do not see a scenario where we as sportsmen and taxpayers will come out as winners.

-Hawkeye-
 
Muley. You think an idiot will pay $290k to shoot a tame deer, wait till the Wilks buy the Boulder, San Juan.

When can we expect SFW to rise up and lead the fight against this? They stepped up with prop 5.

Note to THE DON, and his groupies. Most of those 5 figure welfare tags you make a living on, are on public ground. Perhaps its time to at the very least, fight for your revenue generator.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>Just curious, what's RMEF stance on
>this??? Are they fighting it???
>

www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/PressRoom/NewsReleases/RMEFReaffirmsSupportofPublicLands.aspx

http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/PressRoom/NewsReleases/RMEFonPublicLandsTransfer.aspx


Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
>>Just curious, what's RMEF stance on
>>this??? Are they fighting it???
>>
>
>www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/PressRoom/NewsReleases/RMEFReaffirmsSupportofPublicLands.aspx
>
>http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/PressRoom/NewsReleases/RMEFonPublicLandsTransfer.aspx
>
>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------
>"This is a classic case of
>a handful of greedy fly
>fishermen getting too greedy."
-Don
>Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>told to KUTV
>
>"It's time to revisit the widely
>accepted principle in the United
>States and Canada that game
>is a public resource."

>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>

Thanks Grizzly
 
No need to worry Utards. When your great leaders start selling off your public lands, $FW will be right there claiming neutrality on the issue.
 
>No need to worry Utards. When
>your great leaders start selling
>off your public lands, $FW
>will be right there claiming
>neutrality on the issue.


Thanks pufftuffly
 
Tikka a, sorry man. See grizz answered.

So u all know,Tikka is another of the stand up dudes that takes offense when I rail on sfw. Sucks, he, Muley are stand up, great guys. Blows that $FW has created division amongst us.

It has taken some time for nine to get my mind right. I get to hunt some private ground. Owned by cow rancher. Total class, lets everyone access, etc. Has huge issues with BLM/FS. HE hates them, and honestly with good reason. But, I feel he's short sighted pressing for state control.

The land will be sold off. No doubts. This state will sell its grandmother. And the dudes buying it won't be so generous with grazing, or hunting.

I WOULD LOVE to go war with SFW/MDF for ending state control. If your a member with status, STEP UP!! This fight is the opportunity to cement your place in this state as the ACTUAL voice of sportsmen.

JMO, DKPEAY, etc. This is your chance. STEP UP.

I will bring Grizzly and Hawkeye personally as well as myself to sign membership if SFW/MDF will get in the fight.

70%of Utah is public. This is the biggest issue for public hunters, average Joe's, and most of the deep pockets...

SFW stand up!!




"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Puff,
Is that honestly the best you got? I really hope that's how you think things roll. It gives me security that guys like you will never win in the end.

Guess what in the end you'll be just as angry and frustrated as you are now cause guys like you don't win. They only cry and try to attack personally. You should relax and enjoy ID. I know I will spend a lot of time fishing and hunting up there this year. In the mean time I'll enjoy Utah too.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-18 AT 10:32AM (MST)[p]Puffy-

There are many sportsmen who share your concerns regarding SFW and the expo but are part of the religion, political party and the culture that you are bashing. There are plenty of facts to discuss without reverting to judgmental and bigoted comments.

As a side note, I have never viewed myself as a sheep.

-Hawkeye-
 
Muley, I've already won, I don't live in Utah anymore.

What's your reasoning why Utah is the fraud and scam capital?

Hawkeye, I never viewed you as a sheep either. The fact that, that piece of crap Styler tried strong arming you proved that.
 
Puff,
I don't think so man, you seriously seem to have some deep rooted issues. And it's obvious that your move to Idaho hasn't resolved them. It's a good reminder to keep my head clear on issues I might have. Wishing you the best man!
 
This is interesting. I have long believed the state had little to no chance (leaning more towards no chance) of successfully litigating a case against the feds to take ownership of federal lands. Even with a major shift in justices to a strong conservative majority, I do not believe that would happen.

However, this notion of challenging portions of the FLPMA is something I have never really considered. I wonder what the argument would be, and what the benefit for the state would be even if they were successful?
 
Vanilla,

I agree. I think the idea of shifting ownership of public lands to the states is founded on a paper tiger with no merit. However, the angle of federal ownership and state management is a concern. I do not for a second believe the states like Nevada or Utah could take this on financially. Certainly they would not manage the land with hunting or wildlife or multiple use in mind. But those who are pushing this are using padded and skewed numbers to make it seem like a paying proposition. Until this last year I have believed this management scheme also had little to no chance. But with the rubes and buffoons we have involved now who know little about public lands and are prone to be led on and believe the schemers, anything is possible.
 
Mike Noel, the biggest enemy of public land, actually has a bill in the Legislature to forbid counties and government agencies (including University officials) from speaking against the land grab.

When all science shows the land grab is a terrible idea... Mike Noel and other Republican officials just forbid scientists from saying so without State approval, which of course won't be granted if it is anti-land-grab.

How do people from Kanab keep electing this guy?

https://le.utah.gov/~2018/bills/static/HB0136.html

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
Muley.

Why do you suppose SFW is neutral? No accusations just curious.

My theory is SFW aka THE DON doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds him

I'm struggling to understand how the membership can sit back and watch.

Legit question. How about a legit answer.



"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
When it comes to "OUR" government be it state or federal I think now days the less they do the better.

So I for one like to see the back and forth between the state and the feds. That helps keep both their powers in check.

You can really see what is going on around you from a top the fence.
 
I guess. But for sure, 100% as the session ends the UEA will be screaming about funding. UDOT will be screaming. Etc, etc.

But WE had $4million to give to a LOUISIANA(not even local, did Robert J Debry say no?) law firm?

We get more bang for our bucks from the wolf money BGF fleeced us for.

The MEATEATER podcast will have Rob Bishop on Monday. Should be a good listen.



"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Hoss,
I seriouisly don't ever speak for the SFW I'm just another mouth on the web. But I know that my personal belief is keep it open to the sportsman. I think that to truly do that you have to be able to stay flexable enough to look at each situation specifically as it raises. To corner yourself into one option is foolish.
 
Muley. Legit answer. Thanks.

I just look at the amount of state trust land Utah, Nevada has sold, and see that states sell land. Period.

Not sure how their previous performance shows they wouldn't this time.

Especially when their complaint is they don't get enough money from the feds in "rent". I never hear the Utah gov explain how they can RUN it better.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
I am sick and tired of bullsh*t form letters I get back spewing the same tired rhetoric from our Utah reps about how the state can manage our lands better. We all know it's a lie and so do they. I have never voted democrat in my life, but I am quickly learning that the only real difference between republican and democrats is a few social issues. Our current president is proving social issues can be flip flopped whenever someone new comes along, but once the land is sold it's gone forever. These Utah reps only win on social issues, they need to go at any cost in my opinion, they have lost my support by letting me k now via form letters that my opinion does not matter to them. They all spend way too much of our money in either party and they all love power. Vote for the anyone not trying to take our land and heritage! Letter writing and phone calls will not change their mind on this matter, it may stall them for a minute like Chaffetz, but they will eventually continue.
Just my opinion of course.
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom