Help me understand hunter numbers!!

callsalot

callsalot

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First of all I understand we need young folks hunting and need hunter numbers for political clout in a number of ways. The question I have however is I keep hearing hunter numbers are going down but at the same time tags are getting harder and harder to come by and as I've hunted across the west the last 25 years all I've seen is more and more hunters in the woods than every before.
So how are we loosing hunter numbers?
 
When I was a kid everybody used to go pheasant hunting and now very few people hunt small game anymore because there are no pheasants and the rabbits are only in a few areas and are so up and down.So they all hunting big game now because that's all their is.A few kids I think still hunt ducks and geese.So that is why hunters are down and it takes 10 to 20 years to draw a big game tag.
 
Hunter numbers are inexact. Many states count hunter numbers in different ways. Texas compiles hunting and fishing license sales numbers together. Many hunters hunt multiple states, getting counted multiple times, which skews the totals.

The last time I tried to get actual hunter numbers nationwide (which was five or more years ago) it was approximately 12 million, give or take a couple million. I don't know that hard, real numbers are known, even though lots of different numbers are thrown out as factual by different groups.

One thing that is known, the average age of hunters keeps increasing, which means there are less young hunters recruited to replace those who quit because of old age or other reasons. This is why states have lowered age requirements, given special hunts to youth only, and started mentor programs. DWR's around the country are getting desperate to keep future sales up.

At the same time hunter numbers are shrinking, opportunities are also decreasing, so there seems to still be more demand than supply.
 
I'm sure we all know people who have quit hunting for one reason or another. I can't tell you how many people I know who quit deer hunting once it became more complicated to get a tag than just going to the local store and buying one over the counter.
 
Hunter numbers are not down, look at each state individual, hunter numbers are up. Take a look at the Expo every year, it will be packed this year with more hunters than last year. In our area of Idaho more young hunters are getting involved in the sport and I see a lot of young girls and boys filling the freezer. If we were losing hunters, tags should be more accessible, and there not.
 
Because they use a percentage of population figure.

100.000 people, 50.000 hunters is 50% of population.
500.000 people, 100.000 hunters is 20% of population.


Number of hunters doubled but the percentage went down, hence less hunters. I know it's deceptive, but that's how politics works.


When I first started hunting Colo. in 1974,unit 61-62 bow season you might see 4 or 5 camps. Now you'll see 15 to 20 opening day down long point alone.
 
I don't know how old everyone here is, but when I was a kid, before I could hold a permit myself, I would go deer hunting with my dad every year. They gave out nearly double the amount of deer tags then that they do now in Utah.

So there were way more hunters in the field then than there are now. Less and less opportunity to actually hunt means people lose interest.
 
In reality, the USFW keeps accurate tabs on the number of hunters, at least in regards to licenses sold by each state. They do that because at the end of each year, the money from Pittman-Robinson funds are doled out. Each state's share is contingent on license numbers.

Fishing license sales are also tracked for the Dingle-Johnson money paid to each G&FD or DNR.

I used to get a very thorough report from USFW that had a complete breakdown of all sorts of info in regards to this. I haven't looked, but it might be available online somewhere.

As for crowds and fewer permits, some of that has to do with game numbers and less habitat for them not hunter numbers. And then there's the opposite when a species population grows too large for its habitat, more tags mean a bigger crowd in the field.


TONY MANDILE
48e63dfa482a34a9.jpg

How To Hunt Coues Deer
 
I don't think counting the number of tags sold is a very accurate way to count the number of hunters. Utah has found the ultimate way to limit hunters. Now you have to pick your weapon and pick the ridge you want to hunt months ahead of the hunting season. A couple of years ago, we had a family archery hunt in central Utah. We had nine people in camp and exactly ONE deer tag between all of us.

That was not because the other 8 didn't want to hunt. It was because the other 8 didn't have a tag for that particular unit and that season.
 
Unless they tie the names to licenses and dont count every single license as 1 hunter I dont know how accurate their numbers are. As an example I bought 8 licenses in 2 states last fall. The overall numbers I've seen is 12mill down from 14 mill 20yrs ago. Most government agencies dont count very well in my experience.


#livelikezac
 
I think something people miss in this conversation is hunting multiple states.

Ask anybody over the age of 50 how many times they hunted out of state in there 20s and 30s, and I guarantee its not as much as people do currently. My family has been hunting for a long time and I can't recall my great-grandpa, grandpa, or dad hunting out of state. They were serious hunters who never missed a season, but they could get a tag in Idaho every year and there was no need to go to other states to have more opportunity and bigger animals.


Anymore it seems like everybody is hunting multiple states. That can make a person think there are more hunters out. Another thing is the ease of use of modern day archery and muzzleloader equipment puts more people in the field. Archery tags are over the counter or easy to draw in most states and so more people are picking up a bow. One of the areas I consistently bow hunt in Idaho has doubled the amount of archery hunters in less than 10 years.

I don't know how accurate the numbers actually are, but honestly I think its relative. I am still relatively young (graduated high school about 10 years ago) and I can count on one hand the amount of people who hunted in my 1200 person high school. Kids aren't getting outside as much in general anymore and they definitely aren't hunting. That is NOT a lie.
 
Most of you are not old enough to remember the days when the opening of the deer hunt had more than double the number of hunters on the mountain than it presently does. That is also back when the total population was half as large as it is now. So from that perspective, we have lost a significant number of hunters.
When I was young more of my neighbors were hunters than were not hunters. Now, I'm the only person in my neighborhood who still gets out every year.

Percentage wise we are losing big time! Our passion has become a nuisance for many and it is only a matter of time before we are politically impotent and the whole west is Californicated!
 
>Percentage wise we are losing big
>time! Our passion has
>become a nuisance for many
>and it is only a
>matter of time before we
>are politically impotent and the
>whole west is Californicated!

No doubt about it!

#livelikezac
 
As I stated earlier in this thread, even the federal fish and wildlife don't have an actual count of hunter numbers, because they just use the numbers that individual states give. Texas shows the second amount of licenses sold (Pennsylvania is number one), but Texas counts fishing and hunting licenses together. Also there are out of state hunters that get counted multiple times. Not only that, but not every hunter hunts every year.
 
Wow, a lot of great theories on this. I guess everyone has an opinion depending on where they hunt and their own personal experiences. Here is what I know in Oregon my dad could archery hunt and if unsuccessful could then rifle hunt pretty much anywhere in the state. Then archery and rifle were separated and archery was the way to get away, now pretty much everywhere is a draw for mule deer rifle and archery has a fair amount of OTC tags but it is without exaggeration worse than rifle hunting when it comes to people. I'm all for hunter recruitment but there feels to be way more folks in the woods than there was 20 years ago. Thanks for everyone's comments and thoughts on this.
 
Small game hunter numbers are down. Percentage wise overall numbers are probably down. That being said Im damn certain that there are more hunters now than ever before. Point creep wouldn't be an issue if this wasn't true. They are about to go to all draw and bull only archery tags in Colorado because there are TOO many hunters and more added each year. Try to do a public land duck hunt in Oklahoma texas or Arkansas. When u pick urself up out of the mud and shake off the shotgun shells and wads and clean the powder out of ur eyes tell me that hunting is a dying sport. Try to draw a gator tag in texas now that troy and the boys went primetime. Go to a western Oklahoma wma to finish ur grand slam on a rio just don't put a gobbler decoy out unless u wanna see five hunters crawling and creeping up on him for a chance to finish their slam. Anyone who has experienced any of these hunts cant say with a straight face that hunting is dying.
 
I personally know 20 to 30 people that do not hunt on a regular basis but put in for limited entry tags every year I even know a couple guys that have never hunted that put in for limited entry tags. So that might explain some of the point creep.
 
>Small game hunter numbers are down.
> Percentage wise overall numbers
>are probably down. That
>being said Im damn certain
>that there are more hunters
>now than ever before.
>Point creep wouldn't be an
>issue if this wasn't true.
> They are about to
>go to all draw and
>bull only archery tags in
>Colorado because there are TOO
>many hunters and more added
>each year. Try to
>do a public land duck
>hunt in Oklahoma texas or
>Arkansas. When u pick
>urself up out of the
>mud and shake off the
>shotgun shells and wads and
>clean the powder out of
>ur eyes tell me that
>hunting is a dying sport.
> Try to draw a
>gator tag in texas now
>that troy and the boys
>went primetime. Go to
>a western Oklahoma wma to
>finish ur grand slam on
>a rio just don't put
>a gobbler decoy out unless
>u wanna see five hunters
>crawling and creeping up on
>him for a chance to
>finish their slam. Anyone
>who has experienced any of
>these hunts cant say with
>a straight face that hunting
>is dying.


point creep on deer hunting here in Utah is because it is no longer unlimited. Utah sells less than 1/3 of the deer tags they did when you could still buy them over the counter.
 
>>Small game hunter numbers are down.
>> Percentage wise overall numbers
>>are probably down. That
>>being said Im damn certain
>>that there are more hunters
>>now than ever before.
>>Point creep wouldn't be an
>>issue if this wasn't true.
>> They are about to
>>go to all draw and
>>bull only archery tags in
>>Colorado because there are TOO
>>many hunters and more added
>>each year. Try to
>>do a public land duck
>>hunt in Oklahoma texas or
>>Arkansas. When u pick
>>urself up out of the
>>mud and shake off the
>>shotgun shells and wads and
>>clean the powder out of
>>ur eyes tell me that
>>hunting is a dying sport.
>> Try to draw a
>>gator tag in texas now
>>that troy and the boys
>>went primetime. Go to
>>a western Oklahoma wma to
>>finish ur grand slam on
>>a rio just don't put
>>a gobbler decoy out unless
>>u wanna see five hunters
>>crawling and creeping up on
>>him for a chance to
>>finish their slam. Anyone
>>who has experienced any of
>>these hunts cant say with
>>a straight face that hunting
>>is dying.
>
>
>point creep on deer hunting here
>in Utah is because it
>is no longer unlimited. Utah
>sells less than 1/3 of
>the deer tags they did
>when you could still buy
>them over the counter.


I for one would hate to hunt public land if hunting was alive and recruiting well!
 
We can talk about point creep etc. etc. but even in Montana, Idaho, Archery Oregon and all these places that have OTC. There are simply more hunters than every for OTC and LE tags everywhere. I guess I buy the shortage of small game hunters or maybe it's an Eastern
thing but I'm convinced that this hunting is a shrinking sport doesn't apply to Western big game hunting.
 
Hunter numbers are shrinking in the states that sell lots of licenses. That means MI, WI, PA, heck in 1982 PA sold 1.3 million licenses now at a little less than 1 Million. 1 Million licenses is about the same as UT, MT, ID, and CO license sales combined! So, when these hunting states start losing hunters, it makes a big dent.
 
However, here in the west, they seem to be going strong. ID license sales went from 246K in 2004 to 286K in 2018. CO has seen virtually no increase, as license sales in 2004 were 300K and now are 294K. That is with a HUGE increase in the population there. UT didn't previously make you buy a hunting license to get a tag so it is hard to determine, but looks like it has increased some. AZ has had a big increase as the population has grown. 2004 number of licenses were 183K now 305K.
 
https://wsfrprograms.fws.gov/subpages/licenseinfo/hunting.htm

In the East the number of license sales probably closely indicates the number of hunters but in the West that isn't the case.

For instance in New Mexico this year if 200 people apply for three non resident elk licenses in a unit and all have to buy a game license that means there are three hunters not 200.

Many have stated that the big losses are in the east and that seems to be correct. Since 1983 West Virginia has lost 100,000 and Virginia has lost close to 200,000.

The demand for premium Western tags has certainly increased. But if a unit had 100 tags 20 years ago and still has 100 tags then the number of hunters has stayed the same.

The problem with losing hunter numbers nationally is that we lose our political power.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-19 AT 02:04PM (MST)[p] This is from the USFWS survey that they conduct every five years. Because of the window size, I can't get it to format correctly. The first number is 2011 and the 2nd is 2016. and here's the link to the full 2016 pdf 144-pg. report, which has a whole section dedicated to hunting:

https://wsfrprograms.fws.gov/subpages/nationalsurvey/nat_survey2016.pdf

2011?2016 Wildlife-Associated Recreation Comparison of Participants (Numbers in thousands)

2011 2016 Number % Total
wildlife-related recreationists ............ 90,108 100 103,694 100
Total sportspersons ......................... 37,397 42 39,553 38
Anglers.................................. 33,112 37 35,754 34
Hunters.................................. 13,674 15 11,453 11

Total wildlife-watching participants............ 71,776 80 86,042 83
Around the home .......................... 68,598 76 81,128 78
Away from home .......................... 22,496 25 23,720 23


Total Hunting Hunters ........ 11.5 million
Big game ...... 9.2 million
Small game .... 3.5 million
Migratory bird .. 2.4 million
Other animal ... 1.3 million

Days ........... 184 million
Big game ...... 133 million
Small game .... 38 million
Migratory bird .. 16 million
Other animal ... 13 million

Trips ........... 147 million
Big game ...... 89 million
Small game .... 32 million
Migratory bird .. 15 million
Other animal ... 12 million

Expenditures .... $26.2 billion
Big game ...... $14.9 billion
Small game .... $1.7 billion
Migratory bird .. $2.3 billion
Other animal ... $0.8 billion
Nonspecific .... $6.5 billion




TONY MANDILE
48e63dfa482a34a9.jpg

How To Hunt Coues Deer
 

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