FUTURE OF HUNTING!

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-19 AT 11:36PM (MST)[p]What is the general opinion of the future if hunting on here. Getting better? Getting worse? the only sure thing is change! Personally I think that we always look back on the "good old days" and only remember the good times. Nobody tells stories to their grandkids about the hundreds or even thousands of times we hike and dont see even a doe. maybe im just an optimist.

LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-19 AT 05:33AM (MST)[p]It's the good experiences that keep you going back. Those experiences are filling your tag with whatever your goal was. Some people roast me for saying this, but we hunt to shoot an animal. Plain and simple. A person can go out into the woods anytime to hike around and see and hear animals. You can do this anytime with a camera as well. But, you do it with a weapon and tag for one reason only.

When you remember the times that you got skunked, you go back because the year or two before, it was awesome with more activity than you can remember or because the area always produces, just not the one year because of hot temps and drought or something like that.

And this is the second roasting statement: youth hunters are the only thing that is going to allow us adults to continue the opportunity to hunt in the next 10 or 15 years. For every adult hunter out there, there is the possibility to introduce at least one more hunter if they have a youth to take out hunting, whether it is a son or daughter, niece or nephew, or whatever adding to the ranks of those who will support and fight for the right to hunt. Otherwise, we are just maintaining a status quo and it will eventually succumb to unpopularity.

So, when I see unique opportunities for youth hunters, and usually they are quality hunts, I applaud the efforts of those game departments for doing so. Youth's will lose interest awfully fast in activities that are not "fun" for them. That is just the way it is today and there is no changing it with today's standards.

I wouldn't say that hunting is getting worse, but maybe more difficult to draw a tag in a draw state or units because the ranks are swelling with hunters - definitely a double edged sword.

I think your statement is more pessimistic than optimism. When I get home from a skunked trip I tell my family about the adventure I had and describe the beautiful mountains I just got to explore!

I think that the future will involve more draws which result in people going to archery to see more animals and less people. Let's face it, guys are getting better at hunting and to level the playing field (where I go) I went to bow.

One example...a favorite trailhead on opening day bow-1 truck. Rifle I saw 7 on the second weekend.

>One example...a favorite trailhead on opening
>day bow-1 truck. Rifle I
>saw 7 on the second
>weekend.


I can't wait for 4 of those trucks to go to archery because of how fewer people there are and how much better it is! Seriously, everyone should archery hunt!

The future of hunting is going to look vastly different than it does now. Will it be better or worse? I don't know, and some of that may be subjective based upon one?s own perception. When my dad was 30 the hunting was very different than when I was 30. Some ways worse, some ways better. And I think that will be the same when my kids are 30. Hopefully some things will be better then, but undoubtedly some things will be worse.

In my mind to answer the question there must be a benchmark to compare.

Good and bad, elk and turkey used to be unicorns in this state, that's changed. Unfortunately No Trespassing signs used to be unicorns as well. Thats changed too.

Hunters are more than happy to tell other hunters they can't hunt so that the lucky ones to draw can experience a "quality" hunt. We had a time with 250K rifle deer hunters in the state who could hunt wherever they wanted, with all weapon types, now you are limited to one weapon an area and a week to get it done. People wonder why guy's continually whack the first thing with bone on its head.

We continue to create special interest groups who gather around the public tag trough to make money and drive policy, while the guy who just wants to buy a tag and hunt isn't celebrity enough, hardcore enough or important enough to have a voice.

We have a rule making process that favors under 14% of Utah's hunters in a gerrymandered system. The other 86% are continually outvoted by the rural reps. We have a rule making process stacked in favor of the low opportunity high success style of hunting and management for the two smallest demographics in the hunting world: Max point holders and wealth tag purveyors.

We used to kill wildlife as management, now we manage wildlife for killing.

I would hope my generation would step aside and let younger, smarter heads prevail. Unfortunately the younger generations don't know anything other than the system they were brought up in.




"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."

LONETREE 3/15/16

LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-19 AT 08:33AM (MST)[p]We continue to create special interest groups who gather around the public tag trough to make money and drive policy, while the guy who just wants to buy a tag and hunt isn't celebrity enough, hardcore enough or important enough to have a voice.

We have a rule making process that favors under 14% of Utah's hunters in a gerrymandered system. The other 86% are continually outvoted by the rural reps. We have a rule making process stacked in favor of the low opportunity high success style of hunting and management for the two smallest demographics in the hunting world: Max point holders and wealth tag purveyors


Pretty much point on.

Ill only add this. I think we stand at a crossroads. We can either continue with the "anything goes" advancements in tech, ie cams, LR, location services.

Or we start to restrict ourselves, before the lack of game does it for us. In Utah im afraid we have decided that we should move towards Texas style management(including auctioning of the very ground we hunt).

Other states seem to be becoming more proactive.

Honestly I'm not optimistic for Utah hunting. At some point the old rich dudes die off, and the younger kids who never got started because of Utah's system, go play fortnite.




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

Everything changes with time. I just worry the changes are happening at a faster rate than every before and coming from so many different directions and even from the core. Oh declining.

Hossblur good point. the technology has and is rapidly advancing to make us more effective hunters. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe (in the case of Utah general deer) there are fewer hunters now than there were in the 60s? (I'm 19 so I wasn?t alive in the sixties but I've heard stories.) I just think the hunters now are more effective. Especially the archery hunters. And everyone runs cameras and scouts the whole 9 yards... people are just hunting harder and more tactically.

LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-19 AT 05:30PM (MST)[p]Since Archery hunting was brought up, I think there are two main reasons that keep the average luke-warm hunter from doing it. For one, I think it is intimidating to a lot of folks that have never picked up a bow. The second reason is the time commitment to become proficient with a bow. If you want to get a kid interested in hunting, put a bow in their hand at an early age. Most places a kid can shoot in the backyard, or at least an open field nearby. It isn't nearly as easy to get to a place where kids can shoot firearms these days.

I love hunting. Anything that will give me more opportunity is a plus. That is why I bow hunt and that is why I hunt with a muzzleloader. I hunt with a rifle and handguns, but I do despise the General any weapon deer/elk hunts in Utah. For the most part they are a zoo.

As far as the ?public land western big game hunter? goes, it's only going to get worse. There is no way around it, tags are going to get harder to draw, quality on easier to get tags is going down, technology and hunters continue to get more efficient, fewer up and coming animals slip through the cracks, human populations continue to grow and expand encroaching on wildlife habitat, more vehicle collisions, predators are more protected then ever before. I'm an optimist, but don't kid yourself, public land western hunting will continue to decline in numbers, opportunity, and quality.

We had a game and fish meeting on The 19th of Feb. in central Idaho. This is the season setting meeting for the next two year proclamation and from what they said the new 5 year Elk plan. They are proposing to go for over the counter Elk tags in the desert and central units. They want to take more doe deer out of all the same units saying the Bennett mountain winter range is in poor condition and cannot handle the animals. They want to raise the number of rifle tags and archery tags in one of the best trophy deer units that's already struggling for older age class deer. Then the real show begins on how much hay, alfalfa and corn elk eat. The biologist Mike McDonald went on for half an hour on how south central Idaho is the biggest corn producer in Idaho.Then told the the crowd the only law they are required to uphold is protecting the the land owner. There will be many types of tags for elk- controlled tag, over the countertags, land owner tags, x tags, depredation tags and the last tag he kept talking about was called the KILL TAG. This is exactly what it sounds like they kill them. You asked what I think of the future of hunting. I'm really not sure any more.

Well the general opinion looks pretty bleak.... I'll just enjoy what's going to be my ?good old days? on the way down and once it hits rock bottom, I'm moving to Alaska! Haha

"I think your statement is more pessimistic than optimism. When I get home from a skunked trip I tell my family about the adventure I had and describe the beautiful mountains I just got to explore!"

Never said there wasn't any value in an "unsuccessful" hunting trip. Just said the memories of a "successful" trip is what keeps making a person go back to actually engage in the purpose to hunting. As I said, the purpose to hunting is to kill an animal, not to camp, hike, or soak in the fresh mountain air - that is an added benefit.

Hunting, and all the nuances that go along with it, is an expensive way to just hike and explore the mountains. There are a lot more people excited to enjoy the outdoors in general than hunt.

Try to look at it from a perspective of generality of what hunting is, what it does, and what it's future could be, not what it does for you personally. Otherwise this thread is for naught on discussion...

Roadrunner that response was not directed at you. It was for the op

?Nobody tells stories to their grandkids about the hundreds or even thousands of times we hike and dont see even a doe. maybe im just an optimist.?

I was pointing out this contradiction.

>Hossblur good point. the technology has
>and is rapidly advancing to
>make us more effective hunters.
>Correct me if I'm wrong
>but I believe (in the
>case of Utah general deer)
>there are fewer hunters now
>than there were in the
>60s? (I'm 19 so I
>wasn?t alive in the sixties
>but I've heard stories.) I
>just think the hunters now
>are more effective. Especially the
>archery hunters. And everyone runs
>cameras and scouts the whole
>9 yards... people are just
>hunting harder and more tactically.
>


About 160,000 fewer.

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

>Hossblur good point. the technology has
>and is rapidly advancing to
>make us more effective hunters.
>Correct me if I'm wrong
>but I believe (in the
>case of Utah general deer)
>there are fewer hunters now
>than there were in the
>60s? (I'm 19 so I
>wasn?t alive in the sixties
>but I've heard stories.) I
>just think the hunters now
>are more effective. Especially the
>archery hunters. And everyone runs
>cameras and scouts the whole
>9 yards... people are just
>hunting harder and more tactically.
>


Glad at 19 you are thinking about this stuff. I wasn't at 19.

So here's a few thoughts.

Limit trail cams to off season. 2 days before archery to Jan 1. We have enough advantage without knowing their exact movements daily, hourly.

2. Close shed hunting until Apr.1.

You need only look at the hills today to figure out winter is tough, being chased all over for horns to sell commercially is not a good practice.

3. Limit LR. This one is tougher, but I think you can limit the optics, or bullet geometry, as well as AI in doping or ballistics.

4. Follow Colorado's limits on muzzleloaders.
No scopes, no sabots, loose powder.

5. Ban location services. Although stopping cam usage all fall kinda does this half way.

6. Ban 2 way radio.

7. Ban electronics attached to bows. Limit let off weights.


Who will complain the loudest? Guides and outfitters. Horn buyers.

After that we all give a little. Like you pointed out deer were better off decades ago. Before cams, before LR, before the massive commercialization.

Last. The financial incentives to lock gates needs to be stopped. CWMU is asisinine. The DWR SHOULD be encouraging access, not commercial buisness. And access is the main limited in hunting.

The way I see it We all give up a little, or at some point we give up a ton.

But I'm glad younger guys are getting involved.

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

>We had a game and fish
>meeting on The 19th of
>Feb. in central Idaho. This
>is the season setting meeting
>for the next two year
>proclamation and from what they
>said the new 5 year
>Elk plan. They are proposing
>to go for over the
>counter Elk tags in the
>desert and central units. They
>want to take more doe
>deer out of all the
>same units saying the Bennett
>mountain winter range is in
>poor condition and cannot handle
>the animals. They want to
>raise the number of rifle
>tags and archery tags in
>one of the best trophy
>deer units that's already struggling
>for older age class deer.
>Then the real show begins
>on how much hay, alfalfa
>and corn elk eat. The
>biologist Mike McDonald went on
>for half an hour on
>how south central Idaho is
>the biggest corn producer in
>Idaho.Then told the the crowd
>the only law they are
>required to uphold is protecting
>the the land owner. There
>will be many types of
>tags for elk- controlled tag,
>over the countertags, land owner
>tags, x tags, depredation tags
>and the last tag he
>kept talking about was called
>the KILL TAG. This is
>exactly what it sounds like
>they kill them.
> You
>asked what I think of
>the future of hunting. I'm
>really not sure any more.
>

I struggle with this in Utah. We've seen massive amounts of sage country get plowed to grow hay, and some corn. Doing so created a magnet for animals that hasn't always been there, then the farmer complains about the animals. Private is private, but it seems that if you created the problem, you should also share in the solution? That's a tough one because there is actual damage to property.

Funny thing is those same ranchers/farmers when they get neighbors will spout the "did you not see a farm here when you moved here? It smells, its loud, etc" kinda seems they missed the animals that were there when they moved in?

That problem is tough. I wished G&F policy was if you don't allow hunting access, then its too bad?


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-19 AT 01:11PM (MST)[p]We danced around this topic in the Colorado forum earlier this week. I think each generations younger days are always "the good ole days". I think its cyclic,25yrs from now, if the antis haven't completely shut us down, I think we'll be amazed at what we see. Put me in the optimist category.



#livelikezac

This is a very broad subject, Things like what type of hunting and where come into play. But in the big picture it's simple math. More people, less public land, predators being more protected. As an example Oregon population in the mid 80's 2.5 million mule deer population a little over 500,000 today population 4.2 million people 250,000 mule deer. Those numbers speak for themselves.

Landowners have no ground to stand on as far as depredation goes if they won't allow access to hunt on their land in the first place. I don't like hearing that about south central idaho. The deer numbers are crap compared to what they used to be, and now they want to kill even more.

The Hunting of anything 'QUALITY' is in Serious Shape!

It'll get Worse!

The DWR could F'N Care Less about Quality!

They've Proved that!

Some Don't care about Quality!

Some of us do!

The Whole F'N Thing is nothing more than a Money Generating Game anymore!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

Best learn how to fish; big game hunting has no future. At least not a future for the average person.

Well big2pointer i think that everything is getting worse. And its all because of the government. They ruin everything! We should all start a protest. Whos with me?! We will make those sons of guns take away all private property so we can hunt wherever we darn well please! I swear all this new technology is ruining this great country we used to know and love! Like those drones they got spying on us all the time

>>We had a game and fish
>>meeting on The 19th of
>>Feb. in central Idaho. This
>>is the season setting meeting
>>for the next two year
>>proclamation and from what they
>>said the new 5 year
>>Elk plan. They are proposing
>>to go for over the
>>counter Elk tags in the
>>desert and central units. They
>>want to take more doe
>>deer out of all the
>>same units saying the Bennett
>>mountain winter range is in
>>poor condition and cannot handle
>>the animals. They want to
>>raise the number of rifle
>>tags and archery tags in
>>one of the best trophy
>>deer units that's already struggling
>>for older age class deer.
>>Then the real show begins
>>on how much hay, alfalfa
>>and corn elk eat. The
>>biologist Mike McDonald went on
>>for half an hour on
>>how south central Idaho is
>>the biggest corn producer in
>>Idaho.Then told the the crowd
>>the only law they are
>>required to uphold is protecting
>>the the land owner. There
>>will be many types of
>>tags for elk- controlled tag,
>>over the countertags, land owner
>>tags, x tags, depredation tags
>>and the last tag he
>>kept talking about was called
>>the KILL TAG. This is
>>exactly what it sounds like
>>they kill them.
>> You
>>asked what I think of
>>the future of hunting. I'm
>>really not sure any more.
>>
>
>I struggle with this in Utah.
> We've seen massive amounts
>of sage country get plowed
>to grow hay, and some
>corn. Doing so created
>a magnet for animals that
>hasn't always been there, then
>the farmer complains about the
>animals. Private is private,
>but it seems that if
>you created the problem, you
>should also share in the
>solution? That's a tough
>one because there is actual
>damage to property.
>
>Funny thing is those same ranchers/farmers
>when they get neighbors will
>spout the "did you not
>see a farm here when
>you moved here? It
>smells, its loud, etc"
>kinda seems they missed the
>animals that were there when
>they moved in?
>
>That problem is tough. I
>wished G&F policy was if
>you don't allow hunting access,
>then its too bad?
>
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.


Hoss,
Kindly backup that exaggerated statement with some facts???? The exact opposite is true....More productive farm land gets turned into subdivisions each year than sage brush that magically becomes hay fields! As usual, you skirt the truth like a figure skater! You and Alexandria Oscasio-Cortez have wayyy to much in common for me. This socialistic nonsense is spooky. The reason many landowners like myself find it harder and harder to allow access to OUR land is because too many entitled, clueless, liberal idiots like YOU are demanding we do. We left mentalities like yours behind about 1776 when we told the British to go pound sand. Wish you'd kindly do the same. If you are so ignorant that you can't see the endless benefits that private land owners provide for wildlife, game and non-game, then you are truly dumber than I thought you were!!!I have explained the hundreds of things I have personally done to help wildlife on my tiny corner of this planet. But that means nothing to a lot of folks who frequent this site. They sit behind a computer in a home on a whopping 1/8 acre and have the audacity and arrogance to dictate what I should do on my private land???? I give up! I hope someone attacks your livelihood! I hope they try and run you out of business and come after your family! That is exactly what is happening to rural families every year. It sucks and it hurts! And to have fellow hunters join in, instead of standing with us, hurts worse than all the BLM, FS, Western Watersheds, National Monument Bullshit combined.

I started hunting in Utah in the early 1960's. That was about the hay day of deer hunting in Utah, but hunting was good enough all over that we never traveled more than 10 miles form home to hunt. As the hunting tapered off in the 1970's and 1980's, we started traveling farther and farther trying to find a good hunt. Now, unfortunately, there is no really good hunting in Utah except on some high priced private property and limited entry units. Both of these are out of reach most of the time for most hunters.

My cure was to start hunting out of state beginning in 1982. Other states are not what they used to be, but all of the states surrounding Utah are currently better than Utah ever was.

Somebody mentioned going on hunts without even seeing a doe. I have never had the happen in my 60 years of hunting, but it is getting increasingly harder to find a good buck anywhere anymore.
And it gets less fun all the time. That trend will probably continue until it is no fun at all to hunt anymore. When that happens, most hunters will give it up and I will be dead and buried. So the kids and grand kids will just have to spend their time playing video games, which they seem to prefer over hunting anyway.