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16 Busted

 
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MT_55
(14 posts)
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Feb-21-17, 
10:15 AM (MST)
"16 Busted"

For Shed Hunting:

http://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2017/02/20/16-people-receive-citations-for-collecting-shed-antlers/#.WKx1aTgzVoC

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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: 16 Busted  Founder      Feb-21-17   1 
  RE: 16 Busted  heartshot      Feb-21-17   2 
   RE: 16 Busted  jm77      Feb-21-17   3 
    RE: 16 Busted  Shadow      Feb-21-17   4 
     RE: 16 Busted  Gauge86      Feb-21-17   5 
      RE: 16 Busted  Vanilla      Feb-21-17   6 
       RE: 16 Busted  Homer      Feb-21-17   7 
        RE: 16 Busted  2lumpy      Feb-21-17   8 
         RE: 16 Busted  Joe2Kool      Feb-21-17   9 
          RE: 16 Busted  faultcurrent      Feb-21-17   10 
           RE: 16 Busted  HalfAce      Feb-21-17   11 
           RE: 16 Busted  Muley_73      Feb-22-17   18 
 RE: 16 Busted  eelgrass      Feb-21-17   12 
  RE: 16 Busted  elkassassin      Feb-21-17   13 
   RE: 16 Busted  elkassassin      Feb-21-17   14 
    RE: 16 Busted  Founder      Feb-21-17   15 
     RE: 16 Busted  elkassassin      Feb-21-17   16 
      RE: 16 Busted  hossblur      Feb-22-17   17 
       RE: 16 Busted  Vanilla      Feb-22-17   19 
        RE: 16 Busted  huntin50      Feb-22-17   20 
         RE: 16 Busted  elkantlers      Feb-22-17   21 
          RE: 16 Busted  archerycrazy      Feb-22-17   22 
           RE: 16 Busted  Vanilla      Feb-22-17   23 
            RE: 16 Busted  archerycrazy      Feb-22-17   24 
            RE: 16 Busted  buckbagr      Feb-22-17   25 
           RE: 16 Busted  elkantlers      Feb-22-17   26 
            RE: 16 Busted  Deerlove      Feb-22-17   27 
             RE: 16 Busted  jm77      Feb-22-17   28 
        RE: 16 Busted  Joe2Kool      Feb-22-17   29 
         RE: 16 Busted  HalfAce      Feb-22-17   30 
          RE: 16 Busted  slamdunk      Feb-26-17   31 
           RE: 16 Busted  hornkiller      Feb-27-17   32 
            RE: 16 Busted  Vanilla      Feb-27-17   33 
            RE: 16 Busted  Founder      Feb-28-17   34 
             RE: 16 Busted  ID_Elkmagnet      Feb-28-17   35 
              RE: 16 Busted  arns      Feb-28-17   36 
       RE: 16 Busted  msolocam      Mar-12-17   37 

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Founder
(5963 posts)
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Feb-21-17, 
10:30 AM (MST)
1. "RE: 16 Busted"

Good for the officers. Glad they're out there giving out tickets. I'd love to be out antler hunting, but it's closed and isn't fair if some get away with doing it.

Brian Latturner
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heartshot
(1650 posts)
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Feb-21-17, 
12:29 PM (MST)
2. "RE: 16 Busted"

Well that's a start.

If they busted 16 there is probably an awful lot that didn't get busted.

How many didn't get busted? 100, 200, 300....?

A lot of sheds will be gone by April.

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jm77
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Feb-21-17, 
12:58 PM (MST)
3. "RE: 16 Busted"

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-17 AT 12:58 PM (MST)

Not being in Utah, I'm just curious; how do they enforce this on a landowner who finds a shed by his haystack or sees one in his field?

I know in Wyoming there is no authority to impose shed seasons on private land, because once a shed is dropped on private land, it becomes the property of landowner. And this is not an argument against Utah's shed hunting ban.

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Shadow
(355 posts)
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Feb-21-17, 
01:46 PM (MST)
4. "RE: 16 Busted"

I don't think the issue is with the farmer that picks one up around his haystack as much as it is the droves of idiot here in Utah that act like picking up one horn is some sort of prize. So I guess the argument could be a letter of the law versus intent of the law?

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Gauge86
(48 posts)
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Feb-21-17, 
01:59 PM (MST)
5. "RE: 16 Busted"

Good to see!

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Vanilla
(834 posts)
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Feb-21-17, 
02:28 PM (MST)
6. "RE: 16 Busted"

jm77,

This shed antler collection ban will be very difficult to nearly impossible to enforce on private lands. The difference might be simply that Utah does not have the definition that once an antler drops, it is private property. All wildlife (except domesticated, obviously) are the property of the state, including their antlers.

But in practice, the enforcement of this will be very difficult. Of course, if an officer observes the action on private land, they can enforce the law. But that will be a rare situation, I would think.

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Homer
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Feb-21-17, 
02:42 PM (MST)
7. "RE: 16 Busted"

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-17 AT 02:43 PM (MST)

I don't believe the intent of the Private property ban is to stop the landowner from picking them up....it is to stop the Utards from trespassing to pick them up......and to keep landowners from selling access to pick them up

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2lumpy
(2594 posts)
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Feb-21-17, 
05:28 PM (MST)
8. "RE: 16 Busted"

I wonder why it's always necessary to take everything to the edges. People break traffic laws all the time and get warnings, for extenuating circumstances. If the F&G give farmers tickets, they are nuts, if people complaining about the regulation, don't understand what F&G is trying to do here, they are too.

DC

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Joe2Kool
(256 posts)
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Feb-21-17, 
05:49 PM (MST)
9. "RE: 16 Busted"

>...if people complaining about the
>regulation, don't understand what F&G
>is trying to do here,
>they are too.
>
>DC


Not being a smart @$$, but exactly what it the F&G trying to do? They are not prohibiting people from hiking, snowshoeing, or being on public land, which is disturbing deer also.

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faultcurrent
(65 posts)
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Feb-21-17, 
06:01 PM (MST)
10. "RE: 16 Busted"

2lumpy is a hypocrite. His house is on winter range.

The amount of winter range habitat loss in the last 30 years isnt helping...

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HalfAce
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Feb-21-17, 
07:04 PM (MST)
11. "RE: 16 Busted"

There were a bunch of guys on here crying about the this closure and how no one would be out enforcing it. Glad the F&G is in-fact enforcing it.

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Muley_73
(1531 posts)
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Feb-22-17, 
07:59 AM (MST)
18. "RE: 16 Busted"

Fault,
Does that mean Sevier County as a whole is winter range. Last time I was home Lumpys house was 1 block off of Center St and 2 blocks from the original Mercantile that's been there since 1878. And to boot I'm guessing the grass and apples on his place provide more food for the wintering deer than what was there in 1977 when he built it.

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eelgrass
(19458 posts)
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Feb-21-17, 
08:51 PM (MST)
12. "RE: 16 Busted"

"Of the 16 people cited since the closure, DWR Captain Mitch Lane said, several were cited for unlawful take of protected wildlife; in these cases, the take was antlers and horns."

I guess they're poachers now.

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elkassassin
(14432 posts)
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Feb-21-17, 
09:00 PM (MST)
13. "RE: 16 Busted"

Tell a TARD Not to do something..........................!

My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3_B2Uf9LKQ

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elkassassin
(14432 posts)
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Feb-21-17, 
09:03 PM (MST)
14. "RE: 16 Busted"

One Thing about it!

The Shed Poachers Will Have them All Gathered before I Even Go!

And I'm Not Competing with the F'N Grand Central Station of Opening Day!

My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3_B2Uf9LKQ

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Founder
(5963 posts)
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Feb-21-17, 
09:27 PM (MST)
15. "RE: 16 Busted"

They acted quick to close antler gathering, I think if things remain melted off for the most part over the next week, they need to open it back up. The snow above my place is melted off halfway up the mountain. How can they really enforce it well for another month plus?
They moved quick and made a good decision to close it. Do the same to open it back up at the end of Feb. if conditions allow it.

Enforcing private property is nearly impossible. The antlers belong to the state until picked up, but they can't enforce picking them up on private ground effectively. They have to rely on people just doing "the right thing". Most will, some won't.

If conditions remain as they have been, they need to end the closure at the end of Feb. The longer the closure goes, the more people who will break the law and the more of us who abide by the law get burned. At this point above my house, there's no reason it should be closed.

That darn antelope island antler hunt needs to be move up too!!!! I have to go out of town that weekend it's set for now! That ain't good!!! ha ha

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
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elkassassin
(14432 posts)
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Feb-21-17, 
09:30 PM (MST)
16. "RE: 16 Busted"

Well!

With Founders Post it'll Be Opened Back up in No Time!

My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3_B2Uf9LKQ

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hossblur
(1628 posts)
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Feb-22-17, 
06:49 AM (MST)
17. "RE: 16 Busted"

You know, those dang teal come in here all summer long, and by Oct., the majority are headed out. I need to go kill a bunch in June. Man, and while they are at it, there are some awesome salmon runs I need to fish, and cutthroat I need to get at, I mean seriously, there are kayakers and boaters, how am I bothering anything? I work during the day, we need to stop this "dusk" shooting time crap. They made night vision for a reason. What is it with these "no atv" signs in the meadow, where else can I go burn a donut? "Officer, yeah I was doing 90, but so is everyone else, raise the speed limit". And then my favorite, "there are skiers and snowmobilers, are we gonna outlaw them"?

Is this really what we have become? Seriously?

Bess kinda really hit it with his "Tell a tard....." line. We really need a LAW to tell idiots that snow deeper than the deer are kicking their butts and they need some space? How sad is that. Forget the date, forget snowmobilers. We have guys amongst us, that can look at animals in trouble, in such trouble that guys are bulldozing roads in to spend a ton of money, to feed them, and we have to have a LAW pointing that out, and we still have idiots breaking the LAW. A LAW, with DWR having to waste time enforcing, that tells you, WINTER IS HARD ON ANIMALS, and this year, winter started VERY HARD. This sucks. Its a pretty sad commentary on the absolute lack of caring, empathy, ethics, COMMON SENSE.

Winter started hard, and stayed hard. The DWR did the right thing. At the time there was no way to know that winter wasn't going to keep being hard. Yeah, April 1 seems late, NOW. When I was blowing snow every day, and had 6ft deep snow banks, winter going to April didn't seem that far off. So, adjust the date, THIS SUMMER. Set a date, then, then next year there isn't all this back and forth, the date is the date, and its the same every year. As for land owners, I agree, this date wasn't for them, at least most of them, we all know a small handful will start selling access, then that will have to be addressed, but IMO, if you own land that has been feeding animals all winter, and you PERSONALLY want to pick up a few horns, than consider that thanks from the state for the feed.

Thank god the old folks don't do much with these computer gadgets, because a lot of guys in here would be having their grandpa come over and smack the shizz out of them for not "having the sense god gave ya". Perhaps we need a few of them to explain that DEEP SNOW IS HARD ON DEER, because that fact seems to be lost on this generation.

Bess, your insights on Tards, are simply genius!


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

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Vanilla
(834 posts)
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Feb-22-17, 
08:19 AM (MST)
19. "RE: 16 Busted"

With all due respect to Founder, I disagree that favorable conditions have necessitated a change in the closure. Snow may have subsided, but that doesn't mean the animals were any less stressed the last 2+ months. When do most "winter kill" deer die? From what I understand, it is not January and February. I maintain that I hope this becomes the permanent rule---April 1st every year.

The notion that the DWR hasn't closed horseback riding, snowmobiling, snow shoeing, etc. is an incorrect way of thinking. The DWR does not have authority over those activities, and therefore can't regulate them. The DWR is doing what is in THEIR power to help animals. Now it's our job as supposed "sportsmen" to do our part as well by following the rule.

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huntin50
(908 posts)
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Feb-22-17, 
09:11 AM (MST)
20. "RE: 16 Busted"

I agree with Hoss and Vanilla. Keep it closed. We can still get snow in March and big storms at times. Winter kill can still occur in March and April. To stress deer and possibly kill deer to gather a few antlers is shooting ourselves in the foot. We can all wait 5 weeks.

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elkantlers
(1998 posts)
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Feb-22-17, 
09:36 AM (MST)
21. "RE: 16 Busted"

Agreed, Keep it closed until April 1st. $1000 dollar fine per antler and possible loss of hunting privileges for repeat offenders.

In fact, email Greg Sheehan and let him know we support the closure and do not want it shortened.

GregSheehan@utah.gov

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archerycrazy
(207 posts)
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Feb-22-17, 
11:44 AM (MST)
22. "RE: 16 Busted"

LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-17 AT 11:46 AM (MST)

To help support the strained wildlife and counter the dire winter they endured, also make sure to email Mr. Sheehan and encourage a drastic reduction in hunting permit numbers across the state, both general hunts and limited entry. Seems necessary if the winter was so rough on the herds.

GregSheehan@utah.gov

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Vanilla
(834 posts)
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Feb-22-17, 
11:53 AM (MST)
23. "RE: 16 Busted"

If the spring counts reveal a large enough winter kill that the current number of tags is not sustainable, I will be the first one to advocate for just what you are sarcastically suggesting.

After all, as "sportsmen" we should be the ultimate conservationists, right? I have no problem in reduction of tags if maintaining the same number will have a detrimental effect on the overall herd. We have to do our part to ensure the continued health and success of these animals we like to chase. That is our responsibility as hunters, first and foremost.

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archerycrazy
(207 posts)
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Feb-22-17, 
12:03 PM (MST)
24. "RE: 16 Busted"

While a hair of sarcasm was injected, I am serious in the statement. I agree with you, Vanilla. If count numbers reveal significant losses, then I hope potential revenue can be overlooked and tag numbers adjusted appropriately.

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buckbagr
(41 posts)
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Feb-22-17, 
12:10 PM (MST)
25. "RE: 16 Busted"

Amen. Well stated Vanilla.

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elkantlers
(1998 posts)
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Feb-22-17, 
12:16 PM (MST)
26. "RE: 16 Busted"

>LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-17
>AT 11:46 AM (MST)

>
>To help support the strained wildlife
>and counter the dire winter
>they endured, also make sure
>to email Mr. Sheehan and
>encourage a drastic reduction in
>hunting permit numbers across the
>state, both general hunts and
>limited entry. Seems necessary if
>the winter was so rough
>on the herds.
>
>GregSheehan@utah.gov

^^^ This should be a No-Brainer, same as leaving the extremely stressed critters alone during this their weakest time.

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Deerlove
(3992 posts)
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Feb-22-17, 
12:31 PM (MST)
27. "RE: 16 Busted"

The Wy boys got fined and had no hunting for 3 years for going in early. What do you think these Ut guys are getting?

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jm77
(1017 posts)
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Feb-22-17, 
01:01 PM (MST)
28. "RE: 16 Busted"

Utah needs a permanent ban on shed hunting until May 1st every year, just like western Wyoming.

This will solve half of Wyoming's May 1st problems.

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Joe2Kool
(256 posts)
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Feb-22-17, 
05:11 PM (MST)
29. "RE: 16 Busted"

>The notion that the DWR hasn't
>closed horseback riding, snowmobiling, snow
>shoeing, etc. is an incorrect
>way of thinking. The DWR
>does not have authority over
>those activities, and therefore can't
>regulate them. The DWR is
>doing what is in THEIR
>power to help animals.

Now I understand why ONLY shed hunters were banned. But it doesn't change the fact that those other activities also stress deer.

But, the law is the law. And if it is considered poaching, I would definitely avoid anything that could be considered shed hunting! An old antler ain't worth loss of gear or a license!

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HalfAce
(803 posts)
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Feb-22-17, 
07:15 PM (MST)
30. "RE: 16 Busted"

An old antler ain't worth the loss of some deer.

But if a person doesn't care about the wildlife, well then I guess taking away gear or their privilege to hunt is how fish and game should go about things. Too bad it's come to the point where people won't break the law for fear of losing their gear but don't give two shitz about the wildlife.

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slamdunk
(6188 posts)
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Feb-26-17, 
05:53 PM (MST)
31. "RE: 16 Busted"

Until they make the fines greater than the value of the antlers, they won't ever stop the antler poaching.

I sat on the very first "Shed Antler Committee" this state ever assembled. I argued that the fines needed to be higher from day one because as an avid shed hunter (at the time) I knew first hand what the value of antlers were worth from a commercial aspect.

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hornkiller
(2223 posts)
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Feb-27-17, 
05:21 PM (MST)
32. "RE: 16 Busted"

Dont look like your hills are all bare now founder!

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Vanilla
(834 posts)
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Feb-27-17, 
08:48 PM (MST)
33. "RE: 16 Busted"

Not sure what the rest of the state looks like, and I don't know what the totals are in the last week in the mountains. But I'll say this--the 2nd and 3rd largest snow accumulations all year at my house in single storms have happened in the last 6 days. We got hit pretty good in my part of Utah County. More on the way tomorrow. Winter is definitely NOT over.

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Founder
(5963 posts)
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Feb-28-17, 
04:49 AM (MST)
34. "RE: 16 Busted"

Nope, no winter end at my house.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
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ID_Elkmagnet
(325 posts)
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Feb-28-17, 
03:17 PM (MST)
35. "RE: 16 Busted"

The Indians are going to clean house!


Justin

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arns
(74 posts)
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Feb-28-17, 
09:14 PM (MST)
36. "RE: 16 Busted"

Yep they will be all over there extended boundary and the authority might take there horns but that's all that will happen.

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msolocam
(111 posts)
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Mar-12-17, 
01:50 PM (MST)
37. "RE: 16 Busted"

Hossblur said it perfect.

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