WYPreference Points going into 2018

Wow,
I just calculated the state of Wyoming's non-resident income for points only, just for Sheep and Moose at $1,927,350.00!
 
That amount may change dramatically (for the worse) if a lot of sheep and moose applicants pull the plug this year with the increase in pref pt fee and license charges!
 
>That amount may change dramatically (for
>the worse) if a lot
>of sheep and moose applicants
>pull the plug this year
>with the increase in pref
>pt fee and license charges!
>

Only if more than 50% of the people buying points quit...which isn't very likely.
 
2 million bucks sounds like lots of money, if it were in my account, but when we're talking management of our wildlife it doesn't go very far.

I doubt the fee increase will eliminate any folks who really want to hunt sheep or moose. We might whine but we'll stay in the game and hope the money gets used for the benefit of all.

Zeke


#livelikezac
 
Despite having accumulated 16 non resident points for moose I will no longer apply in Wyoming! And I lived there from 1992 - 2005. A 30% increase in the cost of the non res moose tag has simply priced me out of the market. Think about it - I have about $1050 invested in application and preference point fees over 16 years and if I were to draw about another $1960 for the tag then I'm in for about $3000! And I still don't have enough points to draw the best four moose units unaffected by wolf predation. If I was to book a hunt I'd be looking at another $6000 - $8500 for a total of $9000 - $10,500. I like many others would have been better off 16 years ago just to go and book a Shiras moose hunt in southern British Columbia. I would have saved a whole lot of time and money. Like others I got sucked into playing the preference points game. In reality it is a shell game by many western states game and fish departments. In Wyoming's case, annually about 80% of their operating budget comes from the sale of non resident tag and application fees. What really pissed me off about Wyoming is they waited until after the October 30th deadline for the purchase of preference points to announce the price increases. As one hunter posted on Eastman's, "The rich and wealthy applicants are rejoicing because Wyoming just priced some applicants out of the market and their odds of drawing will probably increase." Yep - you have to love Wyoming - the Equality State!
 
rambopub4,

I think you need to rethink your last post. IF you accrued points as a resident between 1992 and 2005, I'm not sure how the math works that you have $1050 invested.

I know I started accruing points for moose and sheep as a NR in 1999 and the NR fees were also $7 a point. I was thinking the NR point fee increase was probably right around 2007?

There is no way you have $1050 invested in 16 points, applying the entire time as either a R or NR...math doesn't pencil out.

Secondly, why is it that you have to hunt the "top four" units?

I drew a mid-tier unit, killed a solid bull, and had a fantastic hunt with my Dad, Brother, and Nephew.

Finally, there's really no reason to hire a guide for moose in Wyoming in most of the units.

All I can say, is if I had 16 points, I'd be cashing them and enjoying the opportunity to hunt a shiras on the cheap, even if it wasn't in one of the "top four" units. I'd do that long before I threw my sucker in the dirt over a fee increase and quit applying...
 
>rambopub4,
>
>I think you need to rethink
>your last post. IF you
>accrued points as a resident
>between 1992 and 2005, I'm
>not sure how the math
>works that you have $1050
>invested.
>
>I know I started accruing points
>for moose and sheep as
>a NR in 1999 and
>the NR fees were also
>$7 a point. I was
>thinking the NR point fee
>increase was probably right around
>2007?
>
>There is no way you have
>$1050 invested in 16 points,
>applying the entire time as
>either a R or NR...math
>doesn't pencil out.
>
>Secondly, why is it that you
>have to hunt the "top
>four" units?
>
>I drew a mid-tier unit, killed
>a solid bull, and had
>a fantastic hunt with my
>Dad, Brother, and Nephew.
>
>Finally, there's really no reason to
>hire a guide for moose
>in Wyoming in most of
>the units.
>
>All I can say, is if
>I had 16 points, I'd
>be cashing them and enjoying
>the opportunity to hunt a
>shiras on the cheap, even
>if it wasn't in one
>of the "top four" units.
>I'd do that long before
>I threw my sucker in
>the dirt over a fee
>increase and quit applying...
>
>
>
>
You do the math - 4 years applying as a resident and 12 years as a non resident. 12 x $50 - $75 for the preference points = $600 - $900. Throw in 12 years with the $14 application fee as well. It's about $1,000. I never suggested I had to hunt the top four units. I gave that as an example. I lived in Wyoming for 13 years and hunted the Grey's River and Salt River ranges hard with my own horses and a mule. While one does not need an outfitter I know from experience the time, effort, and equipment it takes to be successful. Even more so for a non resident.
 
I think you're a lot closer to $600 than $1k for your 16 points...but that really isn't the point.

All you need to be successful on moose is the tag, a rifle, a pack, and a truck. You don't need an outfitter.

The weather in Mid-September to Mid-October is usually pretty mild and it doesn't take much to camp out there.

Its your choice, but you'll never kill a moose cheaper than a DIY hunt in WY using your 16 points to draw a mid-tier tag...and its a boatload of fun.

My DIY, WY bull from a couple years ago, not from a "top four" unit either. Glad I decided to stay the course.

But to each their own, you dropping out will give someone else a better chance.

DSC00872.JPG
 
I will be able, if I draw, to kill a moose cheaper in Montana on a DIY hunt than Wyoming. $1250 for the Montana tag versus $1960 now for the Wyoming tag. It's not that I want to drop out, it's Wyoming and the cost of the tag has simply priced me and others out of the market. Now, as many have opined on Eastman's, the rich and wealthy applicants are celebrating. It galls me to no end that the WGFD waited until after the October 30th deadline for purchasing preference points to announce the fee increases. They did not want to risk losing anyone's purchase of a preference point related to their tag increases.
 
Good luck in Montana...up to 10% of the tags go to NR and its pretty rare when NR draw more than about 6-7% of the total tags issued...not to mention to gain points and apply there is now $70 a year.

Plus, depending on the unit you apply for, the region quota of "up to 10%" may be reached in units that you didn't even apply for. Meaning your odds are ZERO, since your application is void if the regional quota is met before they pluck your application. Plus, you are limited in the number of units you can even apply for and have to hop units from year to year.

Wayyyy better odds in WY of drawing a moose than MT, and by a landslide.

My Dad, Brother, and I have drawn a combined 4 moose tags (2 bulls, 2 cows) in Montana (all as Residents) in a combined 90+ years of applying.

My odds now, even with a pile of moose points there, are even worse as a NR.

Bottom line is the odds are stacked against you as a NR in Montana...I have max sheep, a point or two less than max for goat and moose there. Odds are, I wont draw another of those 3 ever again.

My Dad drew a NR moose tag here in WY with about 11 points, again DIY, in a mid-tier unit...and was assured the tag the year he drew.

DSCN9427.JPG


It is possible, if you get extremely lucky, and do not purchase points in Montana, that you could shoot a moose cheaper there. Its worth a shot, but its a long shot.

You're in the drivers seat in Wyoming if you stay the course, you'll hunt them for sure.

I know what I would do...and its odd that before the latest fee increase you would pay $1500+, but an additional couple hundred was the breaking point.

Hope you get a tag somewhere.
 
Before the latest fee increase the cost of the tag was about $1450 not $1500. And the increase is not "an additional couple hundred" but 30% or about $500! And the $70 cost in Montana is less than the $75.00 preference point fee in Wyoming. I have not even bothered to research what Wyoming has raised the non resident pp fee to. True, Wyoming has not raised fees for 10 years but did the cost of living index in Wyoming go up by 3% every year for the last 10 years? Of course not!
 
The fee increase did not increase revenue to the GF budget...had nothing to do with the cost of living index.

The GF actually lost about 1 million in revenue when the legislature passed the fee increase bill last year.

The points for moose are going to $150 as are sheep.

Don't forget, you have to buy a conservation license in Montana each year too...for wayyy worse random odds than Wyoming.
 
Thanks for the heads up on the pp fee for moose going up to $150. That further validates my decision to never give the WGFD any more money in the form of application and pp point fees. The wealthy applicants with unlimited discretionary income all have big smiles on their faces thanks to the WGFD!
 
Not true, but who is to thank, is the Wyoming Legislature.

Neither the GF commission, nor the WGFD have statutory authority to raise license fees, has to be done by the legislature.

It should also be noted that the GF can not lobby on behalf of itself at the Legislative session.

The bill that passed the session was horrific...
 
I took a 155 gross moose and my good friend a 145 gross moose from a mid-tier unit...go hunt!!!
 
The fee increase proposal was publicized before the 2017 application period. A prudent person would have done the research and drawn a tag in 2017 to avoid the fee increase in 2018. I did just that and am happy I did. If I were you I would not stop applying. Stop the financial hemorrhage and draw this year and you will save your self the PP fee. It will be a great experience regardless of the unit and as posted by others moose tags are not easy to come by and not inexpensive any where. You have done yourself a great service by applying all of these years reward yourself with a Wy moose tag in 2018.
 
Unless you got in the points game at the very beginning for Moose, Sheep, etc in Wyoming there is no point in playing the game now. There wont be much ado about this increase because if you pay attention to how long it would take to draw a moose or sheep tag in Wyoming with the current points system you would realize you are wasting your time, unless you were in it from day one. I believe in the end that is the reason for the points increase. Lack of recruitment for new points players so you have to charge the existing ones more to make up the difference. They will eventually have to change the points system as there is no reason for new people to join in, make it a bonus point type draw like Nevada or something, where at least new people have a small sliver of a chance.

Its like a giant pyramid scheme. I hunt Wyoming every year for at least antelope if not another species, but you dont have to be at the top of the points pyramid for Elk,Antelope, or Deer like you do for the others.
 
I did apply in 2017 and previous years and did not draw. And the units I applied in were not even the top four, i.e, the Bighorn's and Snowy Range. Looking at the odds, the unit I applied in, 11 outside of Dubois, I never stood a chance at the 14 and 15 point level. Even with 16 points going the 2018 draw I stand no chance of drawing in the pp round based on past years demand history. Granted there is the 25% allocation in the random draw but with most units only offering 1 non resident permit the odds to draw in the random pass are statistically abysmal.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-17 AT 05:02AM (MST)[p]I lived in Wyoming for 13 years and hunted many different units for deer and elk. Most of those units also contained moose. You are absolutely incorrect to state that a great experience will be encountered regardless of the unit. Unit 24 is a prime example. As Huntin Fool, goHunt, Eastman's and others have stated, "The glory days of Wyoming's moose hunting are a thing of the past." Disease, habitat degredation, and wolf reintroduction have all combined to lower both quality and quantity of moose and the overall experience. The only exceptions are the four units located in the Bighorn's and Snowy Range. As others have posted, unless one got in on the pp game at the beginning the nonresident odds of drawing one of those areas is virtually impossible.
 
Marburg - you are absolutely correct! Thanks for your insight. Hopefully some non residents playing the pp game will come to their senses about the shell game. I feel like an idiot - it took me 16 years and about $1,000 in application fees and preference points fees to come to my senses. The only exception to your post is the % of permits allocated in the random pass. But in the grand scheme of the draw the number allocated that way is so few statistically it becomes virtually impossible. It's a state run lottery called a hunting tag application process. In reality they're selling false hopes! Even with 16 points I'd be an old man in a wheelchair by the time I drew a moose tag.
 
Rambopup4, Are you sitting at 16 now or did you have 16 in the last draw meaning you are 17? Big difference there.

I think what some that are replying to this thread may not understand is that in the last few years, the amount needed to draw the units they hunted have gone up more than 1 point per year. I think if you went back 3-4 years, you could have drawn a few of the decent tags that you would have a hard time drawing now, unless you are on 17.

I am sitting on 17, so I am watching things closely. I would definitely stay in for a few years and then draw a tag vs. giving up now. You will be able to draw a decent tag in a couple of years, but as everyone has said it is going to take a long time to draw the best 4 units.

Forget about the previous costs you already put in, that doesn't matter now, that money is gone. The question is it worth 2K (maybe a bit more if it take a few years) or so to you to get a moose tag to shoot a mid 30s bull with a chance at a bigger one?
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-17 AT 05:03PM (MST)[p]Yep, unit 24 is dismal...glad I didn't listen to the "experts" on that too.

Funny stuff.

Oh, and BTW, on of the best bulls shot in the last recording period for B&C was killed in a unit that borders 24...and has even a worse reputation than 24 from the "experts".

SMH...
 
I don't think he can draw 24 now unless he had 16 during the 2017 draw. It was 42% at 16 last year. It will take a few years likely as some try to get out of the game.
 
Rambopup-i understand your frustration and disdain for the Wy PP system. I have outlined at length my dislike for all PP systems on the pages of MM.

I guess I am a simple person. I have been on about 7 Shiras moose hunts. 3 of mine and 4 of friends and family. regardless of the outcome they were truly great adventures. Moose are such a cool animal and it is an experience that is fairly rare. We all draw a line in the sand in our lives it sounds like you are about to do it here. It is obviously your decision but I think you should draw a tag and hunt.

Nripepi-i am not sure if I understand your post about getting in from day one. Tags can be drawn outside of the top point pools. 44 out of the 45 PP NR BHS tags went to non maximum point holders. 21 of those went to the Max minus 4 and max minus 5 pools. Yes when you get to the NR 17 point (or fewer points) pool a person better be fairly young to draw in the PP pass.
 
Cozmo, not sure of your question. I was just pointing out that if he has 16 points now after this year's draw he is unlikely to draw Unit 24 this year as was suggested as an option. If he has 17 points then he would have a good chance. The big issue is the glut of point holders who got in when it cost $7 for a point, I think those people are sitting at 18 now, but I could be wrong.

They are causing a major logjam in the sheep draw for anyone with less than 18 points, like me with 17! One year and $7 could have saved me thousands in points to be able to hunt sheep 10 years earlier.
 
Im a old guy with two or three years left, barring a major age related health issue. And..... they are starting to show up, so the ends in sight.

I have 17 NR Wyoming Moose points. Based on this discussion, it's time to fish or cut bait for me.

If the best four are out of reach, which do you believe would be the next best four to try for?

I've killed a decent Shiraz moose but would like another bull, if possible. Probably would let a 35" bull walk, for another hunter, in another year. Don't need to kill another moose just for the fun of it. Moose meat is delicious but as rare as mature moose are, killing a young one just doesn't seem like the right thing to do, in my situation. I don't hire outfitters, it will be family hunt, with my sons, so I'll will need to apply in non-wilderness unit, if there is one.

Thank you for your assistance.

DC
 
I'm sitting at the 16 point level now. It would still take another 4 - 8 years costing $150/year for the pp and $14/year for the application. Financially the end does not justify the means. I've decided to send Wyoming a message and vote with my wallet. They'll never get another dime from me! Decided to do the same in Colorado despite sitting on 3 basic and 14 weighted points for sheep. Part of the problem seems to be many of the application service providers like HuntinFool and Cabela's tags have flooded the market again selling false hopes.
 
It's known as "point creep". HuntinFool has written extensively about this. It happens in other states as well. Especially Arizona wherein a NR can get an extra point by going there and taking the AZ Hunter Ed class. I'm at 19 points for deer, one below max and still can't draw the strip or the Kaibab late hunts.
 
I understand point creep, but in this case it is more than that. 4 years ago, you could have drawn a decent tag, that now you cannot draw even though you have 4 more points. I think it is a combo of a reduction of tags and folks ahead of us getting out of the game.

You could draw 24 or 25 in 2-3 years likely, so is that tag worth just over 2K or not is the question?
 
Yep the reduction in available tags has definitely hurt the odds to draw. If I drew unit 24 in 3 years I would add another $482 to the approx. $2000 I've already got in the pp game. From having lived in Wyoming for 13 years and hunting in unit 24 I can state from experience that $2482 to hunt a moose is not worth it!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-17 AT 01:18PM (MST)[p]I genuinely enjoy threads like this, as I learn a lot.

I get the frustration many have. Too many applicants, not enough tags.

All that said, I drew a WY Area 1 moose tag back in 2005 - the only random draw tag available to NRs.
And in 2014 I drew a NR AZ desert bighorn tag with 13 points.

The odds would have told me not to waste my money. But I learned otherwise.

I think of WY this way: the random draw tags alone make it a ?must apply? state for sheep and moose - IF you really care about hunting sheep and moose.
If the app/point fees or tag costs cause you to drop out, it wasn?t really that high a priority for you to begin with. Not saying that's a bad thing but it is what it is. Different people have different priorities, that's all.

I seriously doubt the fee hike will affect much on the higher point ends of the spectrum because guys who have been puttting in for 15+ years have already evidenced where their priorities lie.
 
cbeard - you just got very lucky, no more no less. With your luck you should be going to Vegas! And your advertised luck is what keeps funding many western states G & F departments via preference point, bonus point, application fees, and in some states the requirement of a license in order to apply for the pipe dream of a tag they keep dangling in the eyes of hunters. I suggest you start applying for a sheep tag in Washington. Heck, as a non resident you only have to purchase their $300 - $400 license to apply. That will get you into a pool of applicants with about a 1 in 1500 - 1 in 3000 chance of drawing. Sounds like a logical expenditure of money considering your luck!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-14-17 AT 07:48AM (MST)[p]I actually do apply in WA for sheep - and have for about 15 years now. You are incorrect on the cost. It currently stands at $110.50 for the app fee (no license purchase and no up front tag fee required for sheep/moose/goat).

You are also incorrect on the odds as they apply to me. 15 bonus points in WA gives me much better odds than if I were just starting out.

I want to hunt a Rocky Mountain Bighorn - badly. So I apply in almost every state and have for over 15 years. Raffles too. Costs me about $2000/year to do so. I'm not wealthy, the odds are still long, but that's what I'm willing to do - because that's the only chance I'm ever going to have to hunt one. (50K for an Alberta hunt is not an option for me.)

Sure, I've been lucky. No doubt. But the dice can't come up 7 or 11 if you don't ever roll them.

IDK the ins/outs of your particular situation. But if I wanted to hunt moose and had enough points to draw a WY moose tag - any WY moose tag - I would go hunt moose and not simply drop out.
 
The money already spent shouldn't be part of the equation. It's a sunk cost and there are no refunds. The concern applies to new hunters considering whether to start building points, but not to somebody sitting on 16 and wondering if it was worth it.

The only consideration now is the license fee and app fees from this date until you draw. Whether it's worth it to you or not is only your call.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
WY moose is a very unique situation. Point creep is a killer due to the big tag reductions.

Seems to me if you are not at/near the top but have enough to draw at least some moose tag, the smart move would be to strike while you can still get one.

Otherwise, it seems you will soon be essentially just paying $150 to be in the random draw just like the no/low point holders.

I am at 16 points for sheep. I MAY draw a PP tag in 15-20 years if I'm lucky. So I'm just playing the random draw game at $150 a pop until then. It's stinks, but I'm willing to do it. Is it smart from an analytical standpoint? No.

But if I want to have a shot at a tag, it and the raffle is all I've got. Sheep/moose/goat tag apps are driven more by emotions than analytics. That's pretty obvious by just looking at the # of applicants willing to pony up significant $$ for insignificant odds.

As you say, it simply is what it is - a personal choice made based on personal motivations.
 
cbeard - You have come to your senses. From an analytical standpoint it makes no sense what you are doing. 15 years at $2000/year is $30,000. If you would have invested that money wisely and let the principle of compounding interest work in your favor you'd have about $40,000 for a sheep hunt.

You can book a Dall Sheep hunt in Alaska for around $15,000 and up. Two years ago I went to central B.C to hunt mountain caribou. I met an outfitter in Lillooet who had bighorn sheep hunts available for $30,000. He showed me a picture of a 165 class ram one of his clients just harvested. And you can hunt Marco Polo sheep in Kyrgyzstan for about $22,000 - $27,000. I've hunted ibex there and the experience is like no other. Even factoring in airfare to Kyrgyzstan it makes much more sense than trying to hunt a Bighorn Sheep in North America.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-14-17 AT 02:31PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-14-17 AT 02:28?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Dec-14-17 AT 01:35?PM (MST)

I'm aware. I currently have a Stone?s, desert, and Dall?s.

My issue is I really want to hunt a Rocky and complete my slam. Investing that money might have been a sound financial play, but it wouldn't have given me a shot at a Rocky tag and a bunch of PPs that have increased my odds to draw one. (Plus, your math is off - it wasn?t anywhere near 2K a year 15+ years ago. My average annual $$ output has probably been well under 1K.)

The Alberta hunts are not appealing to me because of quality, 50% plus or minus success rates, and cost.
 
One only needs to look at the drawing odds posted on the WGFD website for moose. If I remember correctly some applicants had 18 - 19 points.
 
WOW! That's a lot of people with a lot of points! How many moose tags does WY give to residents and non-res every year?
 
Yes you are correct - it's a lot of people with a lot of points. I believe last year there were applicants with 18 and 19 points. I got in about two years after they instituted preference points since I had to wait 5 years to apply after drawing a tag as a resident in the early 2000's. As some have opined on Eastman's, the wealthy applicants are rejoicing because guys like me have been priced out of the market and the wealthy applicants like cbeard with disposable income can afford to spend upwards of $2000/year applying in various states in addition to the approx $1960 tag fee should they ever draw - until the next time the wgfd COMMISSION DECIDES TO IMPLEMENT A TAG INCREASE, PP FEE INCREASE, AND APPLICATION FEE INCREASE FOR NON RESIDENTS.
 
I'm a resident so the cost ain?t as near the cost of a nonres but it's my first year being able to put back in and I'm going for it cause it's what I like to do. I'm in mid 40?s but that ain?t stoping me that every one says slim chance to draw. Always a chance!! Not in can't win!! 16 points in i would def go hunt, nonguided and enjoy the experience!!
 
I lived in Wyoming for 13 years. I speak from experience. No unguided moose hunt as a non resident is worth in excess of $3,000 - the amount I would have in with 16 points if I were to draw in 2018. Yep - financially as a resident it only makes sense for you. And even that is questionable due to your age. It may take you 15 - 20 years to draw. What's your health going to be like at that point? In reality it's a shell game. Unfortunately the cost of guided Shiras moose hunts in southern B.C or Alberta have gone through the roof.
 
"No unguided moose hunt in Wy is worth $3,000. "

That may be the case for you but for others it may be the best hunt of their lives. It's a personal preference (no pun intended).

I have drawn four moose tags.
First was Idaho my home state. Killed a B and C bull on day 15 (between scouting and hunting). The hunt probably cost $1,000. Killed the bull alone and was a great adventure and sense of accomplishment.
Next was Mt. killed a small 32 inch bull with three friends at my side. Cost was again $1,000-1500.
My third tag was in Colo. Spent a total of 8 days (including scouting) and three 10 hour one way drives to the unit. Killed a 160+ B and C bull with one good friend. Cost of this hunt was $5500.
My fourth and last tag was Wy this year. Donated my tag to a veteran. Spent only two days in the unit and watched her kill a 40 inch bull on day one. Cost was approx $3000.
They were all great and very DIFFERENT adventures. The size of the bull or number of animals seen is not all there is to the hunt for me. To just monetize these experiences and try to place a "dollar value" demeans the process in my eyes. I am fortunate and grateful to have had these wonderful outings.
 
Copied from my post on Bowsite:

I wish I had a copy of the questionnaire WY G&F sent to NR about 5 years. It was clear they wanted to know how they could get the most $$$ out of us for least number of tags.
If you think it is bad now wait 5 years. Then 5 more. Max points tags will get cut to a lower percentage to get new NR apps in. NR tags might get cut. They will time the order of these items to get the most $$$$. They will do everything they can to keep you in the draw and spending the most $$$.

I do not like it but I am lucky I can afford to play and with 18 sheep points and 16 moose this stuff helps me - but I do not think it is fair to the average guy.

Bottom line is WY is running a business and they are making great decisions for that business. Overnight NR sheep points went form $7 to $100. I believe 1/2 the guys dropped so almost 8x more $$$ and 1/2 the work.

However I do not think it is fair that most game is on federal lands and they are doing everything they can to hit NR hard and squeeze us - no other state comes close.

And do NOT get into the mentality of other states are close - if other states jumped off a bridge.................
 
Don,
You are absolutely correct! That is why I wisened up this year and said no more. They timed the news release this year of the tag, application, and preference point increases after the October 31 deadline to purchase preference points. They did not want to loose any NR PREFERENCE POINT MONEY! The most recent financial report shows the WGFD makes over 7 million dollars annually from the sale of non resident preference points alone. That's in addition to tag fees and application fees!

I obtained 5 of my 16 moose preference points as a resident. But I'm stupid. All in over 16 years of applying and purchasing pref points I'm in to WGFD for about $1100. If I apply in 2018 for a unit where I could draw I'd be handing over to them another $1900 and change! That's about $3000 before I fly there for the hunt, rent a vehicle, buy groceries, fuel, food, motel, etc. I can not afford a guided hunt. But if a NR at 16 moose preference points could he'd be looking at another $6000 - $8500!

That's why it's a shell game. I would have been better off 16 years ago to book a guided Shiras Moose hunt in southern British Columbia. The only way NR can vote is to quit applying. The Wyoming legislature and WGFD Commission have further turned this shell game into a wealthy hunters endeavor.

As a NR one can only hope there is a significant downturn in the Wyoming Guides and Outfitters industry. Then and only then will things turn around. I hope the WGFD gets into such a financial bind that they have to start sticking financially to the residents as well. When that happens the
resident hunters will scream like a pack of gut shot hogs!
 
Rambut,

When I'm sitting on 16 moose points I sure wish there were more guys like you out there. I wish you could also come up with a more convincing argument to convince everyone else with 16 points to drop out.

I got too much invested to drop out and an extra $750 over the next 5 years isn't really gonna matter because I will be going moose hunting in Wyoming before 2025 on my terms and DIY.
 
cowfool - and if you look at how much you've invested over 21 years by the time you draw and add that to what you'll spend during your hunt it makes no sense financially. You, like me, would have been better to simply book a Shiras moose hunt in southern British Columbia 16 years ago. In your case it'll be 21 years.

At least I came to my senses on my and my wife's elk and deer points and got out of the Wyoming shell game at the 7 point level a few years ago. You on the other hand are just what the WGFD preys upon.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-27-18 AT 03:18PM (MST)[p]I gotta agree with rambopup on this one.

Most guys on that list will never get close to a tag, even in their lifetime. cowhitely I'm not sure how you figure another 5 years will get you a moose tag. You have 800 guys ahead of you
and 547 in your own point pool and last year they only gave 57 NR moose tags. That means you need 14 years to clear out the hunters with more points than you. Then unless you are lucky, you could have to compete for another 9 years for a tag in your own point pool. And that is if they don't decrease the number of NR tags, which they seem to be leaning toward.
I hate to burst your bubble, but you may want to check your math. :)
 
littlebighorn - thanks for your insight. If one takes the time to investigate the odds to draw math on the WGFD website it does not make much sense. Sadly, most guys don't take the time and if they do can not put the numbers together as well as you have.

That's why the WGFD has the 25% random odds pool. There's always a chance. But the chance is so slim it does not merit the time and expenditure. It's really not that much different than a state run lottery. Bottom line is it's selling false hopes. But then some people just love to gamble. Unfortunately publications like HuntinFool thrive on the application game and constantly reinforce the mindset "Apply, Apply, Apply".
 
cowhitey,

You're absolutely right, you'll be hunting moose in WY within 5 years or sooner...just a fact.

The number of people in each point pool doesn't mean chit unless they actually apply for a tag...confirmed by looking at the draw odds.

For the record, I wouldn't be arguing with guys like rambopup...let them drop out. Just creates better odds for those staying the course.
 
buzzh - neither you or cowhitey know how many people in each point pool will apply in any given year. One has to look at the application trend AND more importantly the trend of available licenses. And the trend of available licenses has gone down over the last 10 years or so. Unless you have a crystal ball or ESP there is no way you can say for sure that cowhitey will draw a moose tag within the next five years. However what is a fact is that he and others are going to be dumping more money than ever into an unknown abyss!
 
Wyoming fish and game are getting too greedy for a lot of sportsmen.

My brother and Cousin both have 14 moose points.
One unit they were looking at had about 30% chance of drawing with 15 points. When you consider a non res moose tag is now $1,997 and bonus points are now $150.00 per year, they are both dropping out.

IN 4-6 years they would spend another $600 to $900 in points. A Non res moose tag may cost another 500 dollars then being around $2,500.

They likely would have over $4,000 dollars into the tag, plus the expense of the hunt. Wyoming is pricing out a lot of hunters. Both make a good living, but just can't seem to spend that on a tag.

Time will tell if WY Game and Fish loose or make more money.
 
huntin50 - you are spot on. Unfortunately those like buzzH and a few others on this forum don't have the critical thinking skills to put all this together.
 
I doubt Wyoming looses money on the PP fee increase. And I bet they sell out every moose tag .

My hope is a lot of people drop out.
 
480 - of course they won't lose money. If half as many moose non resident applicants buy the point they'll still have the same amount of money since the WGFD Commissioners raised the pp fee for moose from $75 to $150! And they've sold out the moose tags since eternity because the number of applicants vastly exceeds the number of available tags. And the pool of available tags has consistently gone down over the last ten years or so. Duh!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-18 AT 04:29PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-18 AT 03:17?PM (MST)

I never was the brightest bulb in the light show,admittedly. You're right for throwing in the towel on 16 years and $1000+ in PP's over $75 ......

My experience is guys that have to tell you they are smart, usually are not. You kept that at 100%.

I'm glad you're out. Enjoy that Montana moose hunt.
 
480 - only the dim bulbs in the light show such as yourself will continue to dump $150/year into the Wyoming moose pp abyss. The only people that are glad are the employees in the financial division of the WGFD relying on the intellectually challenged applicants such as yourself!
 

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