$fw where's the money?

hossblur

hossblur

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Posted in Utah section too, but many expo attendees are NR so I'll do it here as well.


DWR announced it's conservation projects that groups were funding for 24'. $4.8 million in total.

Rumor has it the big 3 for funding are

RMFF $710,000

MDF $2.2 million

$fw $700,000.


So

Where's all that money $fw took in for all this conservation.?
 
hossblur said:
Posted in Utah section too, but many expo attendees are NR so I'll do it here as well.


DWR announced it's conservation projects that groups were funding for 24'. $4.8 million in total.

Rumor has it the big 3 for funding are

RMFF $710,000

MDF $2.2 million

$fw $700,000.


So

Where's all that money $fw took in for all this conservation.?
Click to expand...
You know where it’s at. In their pockets. Administration costs are a *****. Ya right!
 
hossblur said:
Posted in Utah section too, but many expo attendees are NR so I'll do it here as well.


DWR announced it's conservation projects that groups were funding for 24'. $4.8 million in total.

Rumor has it the big 3 for funding are

RMFF $710,000

MDF $2.2 million

$fw $700,000.


So

Where's all that money $fw took in for all this conservation.?
Click to expand...
# MustBoycottExpo!
 
I Don't Know Where The Money Is?

But I Think The Money That I've Spent At The EXPO Might Be At The Same Place The Money That That I Spent In Mesquite Is!
 
I heard through the grape vine they have dumped most of their money into the new sheep enclosure the state is putting together. To me, if true, that’s not putting the money where it should go. Seems like there’s bigger pressing issues that could use the funding before we spent a fortune on a sheep ranch, using money stolen from the public by means of our natural resources.
 
hossblur said:
Posted in Utah section too, but many expo attendees are NR so I'll do it here as well.


DWR announced it's conservation projects that groups were funding for 24'. $4.8 million in total.

Rumor has it the big 3 for funding are

RMFF $710,000

MDF $2.2 million

$fw $700,000.


So

Where's all that money $fw took in for all this conservation.?
Click to expand...
I’m glad to see information like this brought to the public’s attention.
Hopefully the decision makers will start to take notice.
Thank you.
 
I would be curious to see how many auction/raffle tags each of those top three entities received in relation to what they gave back.
 
SDBugler said:
I would be curious to see how many auction/raffle tags each of those top three entities received in relation to what they gave back.
Click to expand...

MDF sharing the expo and having banquet tags and doing over $2 million, while $fw sharing expo and taking banquet tags doing $700k I think explains it.


In fact, if you look at the last few years, $fw total is on a downward trend vs the upward trend in revenue via the expo.
 
Them organizations can only keep 10% of the money the auction tags sell for. They get checked by the state every year. But all the other money, raffles, banquets, expo money, on and on and on, they can keep and do what they want with it. High wages, gas, phone, food, trucks, land they buy motel stays, clothing, on and on and on. So they can spend it all and say it’s business expense. So you boys just keep shoveling out the money to them and you’re making somebody rich. Not me I won’t give them a dime.
 
hossblur said:
MDF sharing the expo and having banquet tags and doing over $2 million, while $fw sharing expo and taking banquet tags doing $700k I think explains it.


In fact, if you look at the last few years, $fw total is on a downward trend vs the upward trend in revenue via the expo.
Click to expand...
Last year MDF did $1.9m in Utah's funding, this year $2.2.
Upward trend for one entity, downward for others.
I'm sure we'll hear some sort if explanation.....or excuse 🤔
 
hossblur said:
Posted in Utah section too, but many expo attendees are NR so I'll do it here as well.


DWR announced it's conservation projects that groups were funding for 24'. $4.8 million in total.

Rumor has it the big 3 for funding are

RMFF $710,000

MDF $2.2 million

$fw $700,000.


So

Where's all that money $fw took in for all this conservation.?
Click to expand...

$4.8 million out of $15.2 million making it to the ground? Thats actually more than I expected from these shysters.

Screenshot 2024-04-28 141732.png



Our DWR and Governor should be very impressed at this level of corruption.
 
hossblur said:
Posted in Utah section too, but many expo attendees are NR so I'll do it here as well.


DWR announced it's conservation projects that groups were funding for 24'. $4.8 million in total.

Rumor has it the big 3 for funding are

RMFF $710,000

MDF $2.2 million

$fw $700,000.


So

Where's all that money $fw took in for all this conservation.?
Click to expand...
I am not standing up for the SFW, but I would like to see actual facts. So far this whole thread is based on "rumors".
I am not as concerned about raffles, or attendance registration fee's, they can do what they want with that money.
But auction tags we should know how much of that money is put back into big game animals and habitat.
Do you hosblur or anyone else have factual numbers for Auction Tags?
 
notdonhunting said:
I am not standing up for the SFW, but I would like to see actual facts. So far this whole thread is based on "rumors".
I am not as concerned about raffles, or attendance registration fee's, they can do what they want with that money.
But auction tags we should know how much of that money is put back into big game animals and habitat.
Do you hosblur or anyone else have factual numbers for Auction Tags?
Click to expand...
Here, I'll make it bigger for you.

Screenshot 2024-04-28 145007.png
 
elkantlers said:
Here, I'll make it bigger for you.

View attachment 144252
Click to expand...
Don't attack me, I am not questioning your 15.2 million raised for wildlife, but that statement is not what I asked for.

Let me repeat it for you
I am not standing up for the SFW, but I would like to see actual facts. So far this whole thread is based on "rumors".
I am not as concerned about raffles, or registration fee's, they can do what they want with that money.
 
Hey notdon?

You're telling Me They Can Do What They Please With The Money I've Donated?

Wished You Had Informed Me On This Many Years Ago!:D

notdonhunting said:
Don't attack me, I am not questioning your 15.2 million raised for wildlife, but that statement is not what I asked for.

Let me repeat it for you
I am not standing up for the SFW, but I would like to see actual facts. So far this whole thread is based on "rumors".
I am not as concerned about raffles, or registration fee's, they can do what they want with that money.
Click to expand...
 
notdonhunting said:
I am not standing up for the SFW, but I would like to see actual facts. So far this whole thread is based on "rumors".
I am not as concerned about raffles, or attendance registration fee's, they can do what they want with that money.
But auction tags we should know how much of that money is put back into big game animals and habitat.
Do you hosblur or anyone else have factual numbers for Auction Tags?
Click to expand...

I have a source that was in the meeting.
 
elkassassin said:
Hey notdon?

You're telling Me They Can Do What They Please With The Money I've Donated?

Wished You Had Informed Me On This Many Years Ago!:D
Click to expand...
You got that right bessy. They can only keep 10% of the money the animals auction for. All the other stuff they can do whatever the he (double tooth picks) they want. Your making somebody rich.
 
hossblur said:
I have a source that was in the meeting.
Click to expand...
I do believe the information you got is more than just rumor. All I am saying is I would like to have solid facts. (I am kind of stupid that way)
$700,000 is a troubling number.
I personally support the conservation tag auction system, I belive it is the only way most of the important habitat projects will get done. But i do believe th tags are starting to get out of control.

I do tip my hat to slamdunk he tries and reports what is going on with the Muley Deer foundation, and he has taken some hits from guys on here, but he doesn't back down.
I am pretty sure there are guys on this site who know more about SFW and could inform us of what is going on in the SFW organization, but mums the word.
 
Here's a summary of last year's pledge of $1.9 for 2024, this year's pledge of $2.2 is about to be released to public.

As for other contributions from other entities, the math is pretty explanatory without being precise without the exact allocation numbers.
$4.8m announcedby the DNR, 2.2 was MDF alone.
That leaves the SFW, RMEF, WCF, etc, etc to make up the rest, combined.
Screenshot_20240429_110532_Gallery.jpg
 
Horsecorn said:
They can only keep 10% of the money the animals auction for.
Click to expand...
I don't know hardly anything about SFW other than their expo and the fact that they have access to a LOT of tags. I looked on their website and they have 110 tags listed. Subtracting out the 22 turkey tags, antlerless tags, and Alberta tags left 87 highly desirable tags. If they are required to return at least 90% of the money raised, that means that they only raised $777,778 or an average of $8,940 for each of those highly desirable tags!!!!
Granted this is comparing last years donation and this years tags, but I doubt the number of tags was significantly less.
Something don't make sense to me.

And even if they donated the full 90%, it doesn't' look like they gave anything above and beyond the minimum they needed to for the benefit of being able to have all those free tags at their events.
 
Looks like the ROI on SFW isn't that spectacular. Maybe it's time to go Arizona on them. Also is there any real data on the properties and hunt leases SFW has purchased in Canada, Alaska etc?
 
I think it is outrageous that the state of UT gives them so much and so many tags and yet the return is so minimal and likely not even the required 90%. SFW must be spending money elsewhere but I have not heard of anything they have done outside of UT.
I looked on their website and not much info there. From what I gathered from their website:
- They obtain most of their money from UT big game tags
- I didn't see that they obtained money via other venues other than big game tags.
- Didn't see any fishing guides or bird hunting guides offering up hunts/trips.
- They spend money raised off big game tags on fish and pheasant projects.

maybe they do more and maybe they just have a bad website. Maybe some members on here could provide some info?
 
This is basackwards. For running the expo and tag sales, SFW should get 10% of what’s brought in.

Even the statement about MDF is wrong. It should not state that they are “giving” the state money. They are returning money Utah gave them.

The whole thing should be simple:

Total money from tag sales
Subtract actual verifiable costs of putting on the expo
Total net X 10% to the organization who put it on.
 
TX makes a good point. those tags are worth WAY more than just the 90% return back to the state. They pull a lot of people to the expo which brings in a ton of extra money that doesn't have to get returned. They wouldn't pull near that many people to the expo without those tags.
I'm still curios how they can say $700K is the 90% value of over 100 tags. Don't they have to get their books reviewed?

I don't understand why the state doesn't give more of the tags to MDF and RMEF. Those two organizations are obviously providing a better return than just the minimum 90%. It is simple fiscal management of resources - why invest in something that will return at the minimum required 90% vs something that will return at over 100%
 
"Watching internet CPAs is like watching Stevie Wonder do touch and goes in a 747."

Thank you!
Finally some on here who can explain to those who want to know how sfw can justify the dismal $700K funding donation.
I will be checking back for a detailed report.
 
SDBugler said:
"Watching internet CPAs is like watching Stevie Wonder do touch and goes in a 747."

Thank you!
Finally some on here who can explain to those who want to know how sfw can justify the dismal $700K funding donation.
I will be checking back for a detailed report.
Click to expand...
Well the first problem is the very first post on this thread that starts with

"Rumor has it".

With that and 3 rumored numbers dozens have decided they know what's going on in each of the 3 mentioned orgs accounts.
 
txhunter58 said:
This is basackwards. For running the expo and tag sales, SFW should get 10% of what’s brought in.

Even the statement about MDF is wrong. It should not state that they are “giving” the state money. They are returning money Utah gave them.

The whole thing should be simple:

Total money from tag sales
Subtract actual verifiable costs of putting on the expo
Total net X 10% to the organization who put it on.
Click to expand...
These dollars stem from far more than just the tags.
 
Tristate said:
Well the first problem is the very first post on this thread that starts with

"Rumor has it".

With that and 3 rumored numbers dozens have decided they know what's going on in each of the 3 mentioned orgs accounts.
Click to expand...
Tri
please re-read post #35

"Granted this is comparing last years donation and this years tags, but I doubt the number of tags was significantly less."

My "approximated" numbers were based on $700K donation, 87 tags, and the fact that someone mentioned a required 90% return.
You can do the math yourself if you don't believe it averages to about $9K for each tag.

I'm just pointing out that a $9K average is VERY low for the quality of tags that they have listed on their website for this year. I could be wrong and maybe the number and/or quality of tags from last year was WAY lower.

Also as mentioned, I stated that I didn't know much about SFW and never claimed to be an expert, but myself and others on here also would just like someone to chime in and explain/clarify.

Hopefully you can shed some light.

I'm not bashing SFW or saying they are corrupt. I just like to know which wildlife organizations provide the best rate of returning back.
 
Last edited:
Tristate said:
Well the first problem is the very first post on this thread that starts with

"Rumor has it".

With that and 3 rumored numbers dozens have decided they know what's going on in each of the 3 mentioned orgs accounts.
Click to expand...


Hmmmmm.

Rumor was dead accurate, wasn't it.

Tri, do you lay awake at night trying to figure out how the hell one guy keeps posting "rumors" only to have them be 100% accurate? Be that illegal sheep, the office that Wade called, Wade getting kicked off island, funding from groups.

How the hell does one dude who puts mud on a wall get all this info?



Who do you think he knows?
 
SDBugler said:
Tri
please re-read post #35

"Granted this is comparing last years donation and this years tags, but I doubt the number of tags was significantly less."

My "approximated" numbers were based on $700K donation, 87 tags, and the fact that someone mentioned a required 90% return.
You can do the math yourself if you don't believe it averages to about $9K for each tag.

I'm just pointing out that a $9K average is VERY low for the quality of tags that they have listed on their website for this year. I could be wrong and maybe the number and/or quality of tags from last year was WAY lower.

Also as mentioned, I stated that I didn't know much about SFW and never claimed to be an expert, but myself and others on here also would just like someone to chime in and explain/clarify.

Hopefully you can shed some light.

I'm not bashing SFW or saying they are corrupt. I just like to know which wildlife organizations provide the best rate of returning back.
Click to expand...
And that's my point.

Most of the numbers that you are playing with are admitted "rumors" and even if they are real they are not enough numbers to draw conclusions.

As for me shedding any light on this for anyone there is no chance. I will be the first to admit any accounting I provide is as useless as the rest of this "accounting ".
 
hossblur said:
Hmmmmm.

Rumor was dead accurate, wasn't it.

Tri, do you lay awake at night trying to figure out how the hell one guy keeps posting "rumors" only to have them be 100% accurate? Be that illegal sheep, the office that Wade called, Wade getting kicked off island, funding from groups.

How the hell does one dude who puts mud on a wall get all this info?



Who do you think he knows?
Click to expand...
And we are back to your loony alternate universe.

I believe you put mud on walls. Somehow, no matter how crazy and self absorbed a person is, they end up exactly where they are most valued.
 
hossblur said:
Where was I wrong?

I know, you don't answer questions
Click to expand...
Let's see everybody knew everything about the sheep because nobody was hiding anything. The office call, again no rumors because no one was hiding anything. Wade getting kicked off the island has never bee. Backed up with anything. Nothing. Funding from groups???? Yes wildlife groups have funds. Your a genius. Congratulations.

Stick with the mud.
 
The worst day in my life is still better than realizing I have to scrape mud on the walls and pi55ed away most of it cry like a baby on the internet about the same ol wildlife org and outfitter.
 
Post #57 answers my questions.
I take it that the 90% return doesn’t have to be just to the “DWR’s conservation projects” noted in post #1 and that the organizations have a lot of latitude to select projects that “they” think is most beneficial.
It was my understanding from the posts that it had to go back directly to the DWR.
 
hossblur said:
Glad your not talking about literature.

Again. You challenged my rumors as be wrong, as usual you've offered zero proof, while I backed mine up, yet again.

So to summarize. You're still a moron.
Click to expand...
I never proclaimed anything right or wrong. I just said you are delusional and operating in some alternate reality only known or understood by you. That's why you are still talking about who's right or wrong. You can't even comprehend how grownups in this reality discuss people and insanity such as yourself.
 
February 5 after four busy days with packed halls of people walking the 544 booths on more than 511,000 square feet of the Salt Palace Convention Center exhibit halls in Salt Lake City, Utah. Most notably, the event once again shattered records raising nearly $14 million from show passes, auctions, tag sales, and other fundraisers.
Mdf
 
JakeH said:
here you go

Click to expand...
Jake
Thanks for posting this link. it was helpful.

A couple key takeaways that I gained form this:

1) Direct quote from the audit report "After the auction, the conservation organization returns 30% of the money raised directly to the DWR. The conservation organizations may keep up to 10% of the proceeds to cover administrative costs, and the remaining 60% is held by the conservation organizations for a short time as they work cooperatively with the DWR to choose approved conservation projects to fund. As a result, hunters can identify and prioritize projects that matter to them and then direct conservation permit funding to those projects. It gives conservation-minded hunters a strong voice and encourages cooperation and collaboration between the DWR and participating organizations." Sounds like the organizations just have cut a check to DWR for 30% of the money raised from the tags and 60% of the money raised from the tags is "discretionary" to be used by the organization to spearhead other projects but doesn't have to necessarily be spent that same fiscal year. I assume the other projects need the blessing of DWR.

2) Direct quote from the audit report "The goal is to maximize revenue to fund wildlife conservation activities." Based on this I think the organizations that are bringing the best return on the tags should be getting the most tags. This should be pretty easy to quantify. Say for example if organization A made $1M on the sale of tags and put back $1.5M on the ground while organization B made $1M on the sale of tags and put back $2M on the ground, then organization B should get more tags than organization A. The tags are worth more then just the auction value - they also help draw people to events and they help sell memberships. The DWR should also take that into consideration when giving out tags.

3) The revenue amounts in Appendix 1 don't match the revenue amounts in Appendix 2?

4) There is a lot more tags in the program than I realized. And there is LOT of money raised from these tags!!!!!
 
SDBugler said:
Jake
Thanks for posting this link. it was helpful.

A couple key takeaways that I gained form this:

1) Direct quote from the audit report "After the auction, the conservation organization returns 30% of the money raised directly to the DWR. The conservation organizations may keep up to 10% of the proceeds to cover administrative costs, and the remaining 60% is held by the conservation organizations for a short time as they work cooperatively with the DWR to choose approved conservation projects to fund. As a result, hunters can identify and prioritize projects that matter to them and then direct conservation permit funding to those projects. It gives conservation-minded hunters a strong voice and encourages cooperation and collaboration between the DWR and participating organizations." Sounds like the organizations just have cut a check to DWR for 30% of the money raised from the tags and 60% of the money raised from the tags is "discretionary" to be used by the organization to spearhead other projects but doesn't have to necessarily be spent that same fiscal year. I assume the other projects need the blessing of DWR.

2) Direct quote from the audit report "The goal is to maximize revenue to fund wildlife conservation activities." Based on this I think the organizations that are bringing the best return on the tags should be getting the most tags. This should be pretty easy to quantify. Say for example if organization A made $1M on the sale of tags and put back $1.5M on the ground while organization B made $1M on the sale of tags and put back $2M on the ground, then organization B should get more tags than organization A. The tags are worth more then just the auction value - they also help draw people to events and they help sell memberships. The DWR should also take that into consideration when giving out tags.

3) The revenue amounts in Appendix 1 don't match the revenue amounts in Appendix 2?

4) There is a lot more tags in the program than I realized. And there is LOT of money raised from these tags!!!!!
Click to expand...

I've said all along the making the absolute most money for wildlife is not the end goal. If it was, they would not make people Validate the Expo applications in person. By doing this they are alienating the majority of hunters.
The real end goal is to put on a show that lines the pockets of the hunting industry machine while giving just enough back to keep people quiet.
 
I'm a RMEF life member (and past chapter chair) so I reached out to confirm the amounts in post #1. Here is the response I received. It is a little higher than the amount listed in post #1


Brian,

Thanks for reaching out. As per a news release we distributed back in March, RMEF committed $760,519 for 49 projects. To be clear, that includes funds raised through RMEF banquets as well as the Utah Conservation Permit Program. Thank you for supporting RMEF.

Best,

Mark Holyoak
 
SDBugler said:
I'm a RMEF life member (and past chapter chair) so I reached out to confirm the amounts in post #1. Here is the response I received. It is a little higher than the amount listed in post #1


Brian,

Thanks for reaching out. As per a news release we distributed back in March, RMEF committed $760,519 for 49 projects. To be clear, that includes funds raised through RMEF banquets as well as the Utah Conservation Permit Program. Thank you for supporting RMEF.

Best,

Mark Holyoak
Click to expand...


They did so without a DWR/taxpayer sponsored party, and 200 permits.
 
lostinOregon said:
SFW supporters……….crickets
Click to expand...

Of course.

The actual number, will be public in Sept, when everyone is hunting. Top secret chit until then.

Pay no attention to the other big 2 being able to put the number out when asked.

What's funny, I didn't include the name of the guy who wrote the email they sent me, he obviously watches this forum, he addressed it to Hossblur, despite me not using that name in my inquiry.

You'd think he'd want to bury this subject with facts rather than lurk around.
 
SDBugler said:
I'm a RMEF life member (and past chapter chair) so I reached out to confirm the amounts in post #1. Here is the response I received. It is a little higher than the amount listed in post #1


Brian,

Thanks for reaching out. As per a news release we distributed back in March, RMEF committed $760,519 for 49 projects. To be clear, that includes funds raised through RMEF banquets as well as the Utah Conservation Permit Program. Thank you for supporting RMEF.

Best,

Mark Holyoak
Click to expand...
This is why the RMEF
SDBugler said:
I'm a RMEF life member (and past chapter chair) so I reached out to confirm the amounts in post #1. Here is the response I received. It is a little higher than the amount listed in post #1


Brian,

Thanks for reaching out. As per a news release we distributed back in March, RMEF committed $760,519 for 49 projects. To be clear, that includes funds raised through RMEF banquets as well as the Utah Conservation Permit Program. Thank you for supporting RMEF.

Best,

Mark Holyoak
Click to expand...
This is why the RMEF is the only conservation organization that I support
 

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