Oregon Mulie Draws What a Scam....

B

blacktailBC

Active Member
Messages
602
Has anyone Looked at ODFW's drawing statistics for this year! What kind of scam are they pulling on the non residents? No non-residents were drawn for any of the premium hunts according to their data. According to ODFW data no non-res were drawn for: NE Whitehorse Muzz. 25 tags
Hart Mt. Muzz 25 tags
Hart Mt. Bow 30 tags
Juniper Muzz 9 tags
North Warner Muzz. 25 tags

However the resident landowners were generously given up to 20% of the tags in some zones. Keep in mind that lots of non-res had the points it took to draw these hunts. They just weren't given a tag! For Juniper 6 people with 10pts put in, nobody drew....For Hart Mt. people with 11 pts. didn't draw. For North Warner Muzz. Resident land owners got 4 of 19 tags. Trout Creek zone had 50 tags, 1 non res drew. The regs say that non-res will get up to 5% of the tags.....but how did no non-residents draw for any of these hunts...and others? Are they taking the Resident land owner tags out of the non-res 5%??
This seems like such a scam because a guy puts in for 11 years at roughly $70 bucks a liscense per year, and then they give the tags to the Resident land owners. If this data is true they will not see my money next year.
 
They allow up to 5% nonresident, half of which can go to the guide draw. The guide draw comes first. My guess is that that if a guide gets a tag to a nonresident in a unit with less than 40 tags, a nonresident can not get another tag. Oregon is the stingiest state with nonresident quotas, by far.
 
Well get ready, because I got word that OTC bow tags are going to be draw only... Another in many States narrow minded plans to get more money. As in tax and spend. Only I doubt if much will go back into habitat or the animals.
Stop Global Whining
 
I know that for years we draw deer tags for eastern Oregon at least every other year. I haven't checked the drawing stats but I know that it's been 4 years since our last draw.
 
You're right, Oregon does screw the non res. hunter.if it makes you feel any better we don't have any great hunts but the ones you listed are probably the best. Oregon deer hunting is bad enough I don't take it too serious and I've lived here my whole life. my advice would be if you have alot of points pick the best unit you have a chance at and hope for luck, if you don't have many points use your money in a state that has better hunting and is fair to non res. hunters. I hunt every western state I can draw a tag in exept WA. and CA. and they're all better than Oregon. if you are eating your license fee anyway even with the awful draw odds we do have good antelope and sheep hunts, and fair elk hunting.
 
People who apply with people with less points or 2 non-residents applying together would eclipse the 5% rule and Guide tags also play a role in there every other year so that is the so called rules of it. I know for a fact that at least one of the guys with 12 points who is a Non-res is applying with a resident who has like 5 points so they are at 7 should get it in 2 or 3 years. Oregon has a good program and are stingy with there tags. But who knows. But I do know the North Warner Guide Tag Killed a 27" 5x5 buck and the Juniper will go off this next weekend will let you know what we get
Dave
 
Why would you waste your money putting in for oregon tags anyway? You could probably have a much better hunt in any other state in an OTC hunt or a hunt that only took a few points than you would in Oregon. Hart Mountain has dwindled over the years and most people get there tag and say it's a horrible hunt and that they wished they would have saved their points. You could find better animals in an OTC unit than there. Plus it takes us residents forever just to get one of those tags. Hunts like the weneha some of us will never even draw in one life time. So what makes you think that you should have the same odds as us when you don't live here?

I don't believe that landowners get 20% of tags. No where in the regulations does it say that.

About bowhunting going to a draw, it's not to make more money it's to decrease crowding. Where I have hunted for the last five years I saw more people from washington than I did from Oregon. It's getting ridiculous, numbers have to be regulated and a limited draw will do that. Oregon is probably the worst place to hunt as far as quality animals go. I think that we would like to have a decent hunt in our own state so we are limiting numbers. Hopefully this will provide everyone with a quality hunt.
 
Just a comment no flame or opinon.

Non residents got over 40% of the premium Bull Elk and Mule Deer hunts this year in AZ
 
Check the controlled hunt drawing results on their website.....you will see that it shows the # of tags available, then how they were drawn......Resident, non-res, or RLO. Meaning resident land owner. You will see for all the premium hunts the non-res category says "0". RLO will say 2,4,6....etc.
 
From the look of it, it looks like the landowner tags are not part of the set tag quota. It looks like they are in addition to the allotted tags. Check out hunt number 123 Umpqua, it says that there are 22 tags authorized, but then it says that there were 45 RLO tags drawn plus 10 NRLO tags drawn. Don't worry, the landowners aren't getting your tags. And no we don't have the option to pay more, it's our state. I have to pay more to go hunt your state, that's the way it is. It's taking 11-12 years right now to draw a premium tag as a resident. Why do we want to lengthen that period to let non-residents have better odds.
 
Oh and the regs don't say that 5% will be issued to non-residents. It says that up to 5% "CAN" be issued, it doesn't mean that they will be.
 
Oregonbowhunter,

Apparently after reading your first post, you need to re-read my first post with your glasses on. I never said that non-residents automatically get 5% of the tags. If you would take the time to read the post you will see that I said up to 5% of the tags just like the regs say. But what do non-res get then???? Apparently 0% for the premium hunts, since as you can see if you look at the data..not one non-res drew a premium muzzleloader hunt. Also I never said that RLO "get" 20% of the tags in all hunts, simply that in some hunts they recieved up to 20% of the tags. Juniper Hunt 9 tags available
7 res point holders drew, 2RLO tags
=22% of tags to RLO

N. Warner Muzz= 19 tags
14 res point holders drew
4 RLO drew
= 21% of tags
Take the time to read the post before you start typing. Next time I will spell it out better for you.
 
One could argue that it was just the 'luck of the draw'.

However, if you go back over two or three years, you may be able to substanciate your claim with better stats. Just a thought.
 
I think somebody may have already mentioned it, but of the 5% non-resident quota, up to half of those tags may go to outfitters, so their clients can get a premium tag without having to go through the drawing. So on those hunts with only 25 tags, don't bother applying if you're a non-resident. 5% of 25 is 1.25, so it's obvious if an outfitter gets one tag for that hunt for his non-resident client, there will not be any available in the draw. In my opinion, it's not a "scam." After all, the way the drawing works is fully explained in the regulations, so if you can read you will know the odds of drawing as a non-resident are not good.
 
Look BlacktailBC, your direct quote in your first post says, "The regs say that non-res WILL get up to 5% of tags...

Do you see the "will" in there? Will is a garauntee word, there is no garauntee that any non-residents will get a tag. I don't want to get in a tussle but I did read your post correctly, your trying to back peddle and apparently you didn't read my last posts correctly. RLO tags are not taken out of the 25 or so tags available. If that were the case then how could land owners be awarded 45 tags when there were only 22 available in the Umpqua 123 hunt? Oh and what BOB D said is right on the money, you should have figured your odds before applying, smart ass.
 
Ok enough of the Blabber LOL Here is how it all works. I am a Guide and Outfitter in Oregon and I am the Guide who drew the Trout Creek Mountains, Juniper Muzzleloader, North Warner Muzzleloader, Klamath Falls Muzzleloader and the Interstate Youth Rifle. SO here is how it works with Units that have under 35 tags.
In the 2004 Draw a Non-resident Hunter Drew all of those tags. So a Non-resident Tag was issued for those units. Along with all of the Major Elk Units as well Wenaha, Walla Walla, Mt. Emily. and so on. So therefore the Guide and Outfitters get the option in the 2005 Draw to apply for these tags. I drew the primary deer hunts.
So now in 2005 there were no tags issued to Non-residents for any of the the premium hunts. IE Juniper Muzzleloader, North Warner which is being canceled after this year so a little heads up.
So for the 2006 draw there will be no guide tags issued for these hunts they will go into the Regular Draw. So a Non-res will draw these tags then the tags will go back into the Guide draw in 2007. 2008 back to Non-res and 2009 in the Guide Draw. Hope this makes it to where you understand it.

Now about the Preference points Deal if Non-Resident Joe Blow A has 11 points his Resident buddy Jerk Off C has 3 points and they are applying for Juniper Muzzleloader in 2006 They have an average of 7 points and they will not likely draw the tag due to the Number of points that they have. Now Non-residents Brain Child B and Dinkus D applytogether they both have 12 points and are in the Top draw pool. THEY CANNOT DRAW A TAG THEY WILL ECLIPSE THE 5% Cap. SO before you go and bash all of the system check the points and find out how manyPoints people Have and who they apply with and so forth. I do not have time to do the research but i can tell you most of the guys who are non-res apply with another guy who is a Non-res aand take themselves completely out of the draw

Dave
 
Yeah,
Highdesert thanks for the clarification of the guide draw. The part that is misleading is, as I have read it in the regs. it says nothing about this guide draw switching from year to year. Like you said, if you look at the stats non-res drew some tags last year, and now none? That is what I was thinking is that they gave the tags to the RLO or guides....turns out I was right. If Oregon wants to do that, that is just fine and dandy but tell me beforehand that I have no chance of drawing. Then I won't apply and waste my 70 bucks. Why don't they just say that in the regs "this year the guides will get the non-res tag or tags." Too me if they lure you in with the chance of drawing the 1 or 2 tags with your preference points, then give those tags to the guides every other year without telling you that is a scam.

bwhunter: key words are "up to" I never said that non-res are guaranteed 5% I already knew that.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-05 AT 11:26PM (MST)[p]How Many Preference points do you have Blacktail. realize That unless you have 10 points now at least that even without the Guide draw you are still over 25 years out from getting a tag for Juniper. Chedck out the Number of People who just Point saver over 30 with at least 10 points and 66 Residents with atleast 10 pts. There are 18 Residents who have 10 points who did not draw along with 6 Non-residents Because 1 tag is issued to Non-residents. So without the Guide Draw you still have atleast 6 years to wait Minimum. No Chance as the years draw out you will see what happens Now the Trout Creeks They issue a Non-res Tag every year. So man unless you got at least 10 points I would not even worry about the Juniper Muzzleloader tag.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-05 AT 02:35PM (MST)[p]I am not worried about the Juniper tag....I know I do not even have close to enough points to draw. It is not sour grapes on my part that I didn't get drawn this year....I didn't even put in for the draw (point saver). My only heartburn over the issue is that they do not tell you that the guides will get the 1 or 2 tags every other year, hence there is no non-res drawn at all for these hunts this year. Don't get the non-res to put in thinking that when they get 9,10,11,12 pts they will get a tag, when they won't. I don't really even worry about hunting oregon, I have trips planned to other states with otc tags that are better anyways, just like a lot of people on here. Just don't like it when they sucker you in, and get you to pay the dough, and then wannn..wannn..wannnnnn.. sorry no tag for you.
 
I am a non resident that made the mistake of putting in for the wagontire unit, what a waste of nine bonus points. This was the worst hunt I have been on in my hole life. Oregon is done getting money from me. The only reason I put in is that a buddy of mine got scamed by a guide, telling him about all the huge bucks in this unit. What a lie.
 
wehunt,

What area in the wagontire unit did you hunt?...There are some big bucks in that unit but you've got to know where to go. That unit is pretty big. Alot of it has private ranches and if you know where the BLM is, you can hunt the outskirts and maybe catch a dandy buck headed to the alfalfa field for dinner. I misssed a big'n there years ago when I used to rifle hunt. Stick N String man now.....

RuttNStrutt
 
Wehunt,

About any mulie hunt in Oregon will be the worst hunt you've ever had. but if you have a few elk pionts you might want to use them before you give up, there are a few good elk hunts. I can't believe how bad our deer hunting has become, even the guys who shoot dinks are having it tough.if this winter hangs on mule deer might be on the endangered list in Oregon next year. on the bright side we hunted Colorado this year and I haven't seen deer like that since I was a kid, makes deer hunting in OR. suck even worse.
 
A regular reader but never posting, I thought this to be the perfect time to see if someone could answer me a question about northeastern Oregon elk. I have seven points for elk and beginning to think it is a futile cause to continue putting in for a Wenaha elk hunt each year. I don't want to waste those points but at the same time I don't have 20 years to wait to get drawn. I had a double lung transplant due to cystic fibrosis in 2001 and even though my health is good now, I know it won't be forever. Can anyone tell me if the Chesnimnus unit holds decent elk numbers during the controlled bow hunt in there? Would there be a reasonable opportunity for a good bull in there on public or other accessible land? Any info on this area or a suggested option for a nonresident with seven points that's ready to go hunt Oregon bulls in that part of the state?

Thanks in advance-
 
I think I have six, been putting in for the whanaha. I also have a bunch of antalope points.
 
CFHUNTER,

It sounds like you are a bow hunter, if so I wouldn't put in for the Ches bow tag with that many pionts as it's an easy draw. your chance at the Wenaha is very poor even if you had years to put in, OR. does screw the non res. hunter. sticking with the bow thing there are a few hunts I'd think about, Walla Walla bow, Mount Emily bow or the new limited entry Ochoco bow that you should draw. if you might hunt with a rifle you should be able to get a Ochoco,Murderers creek,Silvies unit, all good but not great hunts. there are so many variables if you say what weapon, type of country, how long you're willing to wait and if you plan on useing a guide I'm sure we can get you pushed in the right direction .
 
Wenunt,
You would be better off to try to win the lottery and then buy the Goveners tag than draw the Wenaha. Like the other fellow here what are you wanting in your hunt as far as quality,weapon,how long you'll wait to draw ect. and We'll give our 2cts for what it's worth.
 
Oregon has been ripping off the non-resident hunter for years. I refuse to pay their rip off license fees and not get drawn. Non-residents need to wake up and refuse to play their game and go elsewhere to a state that will give them a fair chance.
I can understand not getting drawn due to reduced license allotments for non-residents, but to shell out money for a license first, then get shafted by not getting drawn is downright theft. they should only charged a 5-10 dollar fee for processing an application. If you get drawn, you pay for your license and tags, if not you are only out the small process fee.
Non-residents should refuse to play this game and let Oregon decide if they want non-residents in the future, or put the intire bill on the backs of their residents. Even though I only live a few hours drive from Oregon, they have never ripped me off, because I refuse to play their game. I hunt states that do not rip me off for license fees knowing that they will not give me a chance at a tag.

RELH
 
Wyoming has been my out of state hunting area, I send them the money, if I do not get drawn they refund except for a small processing fee. And when you talk about "Premium" hunts, Oregon does not have to much to bragg about compared to alot of other western or Rocky Mountain states. Their requirement to buy a license first, and take your chances on drawing a tag is nothing but a out right rip off no matter how you look at it.

RELH
 
Just another detail about the landowner tags, according to the way the program is supposed to work the tags are only valid on the property owned by the land owner and is not valid unit wide. Land owners can only hunt there own land and not the national forest, blm, or state land.
 
Wehunt,
that makes it tough. to hunt the rut you'll have to hunt with a bow and 325 is top end in most units. if you go with an outfitter on private land there's a chance at a 350 class bull but on public land the odds are awful. it sounds like you want a quality hunt and here in Oregon we're not programed to deal with that. if quality is what you want then Wenaha or Mill Creek is your best bet, problem is you'll never draw it. I don't know what to say, you can draw most of the good tags with the points you have but they might not be what you want. I don't want to be a downer but if you want a late October rifle hunt for raghorns with a possible 300+ bull and not many hunters that's a quality hunt in Oregon.
 
That is corect about land owner tags Jamie. They busted a Ranch this year big time 9 people in all they had a bunch of Private that was fenced and lets just say they finally did something about it last i heard they had pulled all of the ranches tags and did some pretty serious hunting suspensions as well.

The only guranteed Unit wide tag available is the tags offered in the Guide and Outfitter Tag allottment program. This is a good program. There are like 45 guides in the program throughout the entire state. Most are in NE Oregon there are a few in Southeast and a couple in Southwest.

They will have the tag list out here pretty quick for this i am kind of excited to see what we draw this year. It will not be as good as last year do not think anything could top last year. But still a good chance to have a fun hunting season.
 
Guide draw good? It sucks! They take 50% of the measly 5% of the tags nonresidents can draw. What a scam. They sucker nonresidents into paying about $100 to draw only 2.5% of the tags. But the guides can sell the other 2.5% for whatever they can get for them. Oregon is by far the worst state to nonresidents. I can not believe as many buy into it as do. Like P.T Batnum said, there is one born every minute.
 
What is funny is that you can read the synopsis from cover to cover and there is nothing in there about the guide draw gets 50% of the NR tags. Oregon manages people, not animals. They need to sell so many tags to have the money to operate ODFW. They give out way too many tags and there are very few good hunts. I know some of you are going to say there is good hunting in Oregon, but it is rare, private property or it has taken years to find such a place. I have hunted almost everywhere in this state and it sucks. I compare this to the hunting I have done in Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado and Montana. Spend your money elsewhere until Oregon starts managing for quality not quantity. Money as always will run the show. Spend your money in Wyoming or Colorado that gives better NR odds. For the elk hunter with the 7 NR points, look at east northside unit, pretty good unit with good bull ratio. It is rough but you can find some good bulls if you know where to look.

Rich
 
lostinoregon,
I agree with you, have you noticed we used to have quantity but no quality and now we don't have either? I've said for years let's cut tag numbers in half and double the price, if a good deer tag isn't worth $40 to you your not a hunter any way. I've lived in eastern Oregon my whole life and hunted from when I turned 12 in '74 and this was the worst year I have ever seen. I don't take hunting in Oregon serious anymore. well enough crying but it does make you think, if Oregon gave the non res a fair shake and a good hunt maybe they would pay for our game dept. like I'm going to pay for Wyoming's. have you seen thier new point prices?
 
You know why no nonresidents drew some of those? Because the guide draw took those out of the nonresident quota before the draw even started. Talk about B.S. government subsidizing of a few. And very few who send the license fee to Oregon even know it. It was not even possible going in to draw nonresident tags for many of the premium units. I have a good friend who paid $4500 to a guide for one of those hunts. The guide complained about the fact that they were staying longer than he expected, hotel and food costs were adding up. The guide knew they would not find one and wanted him to just shoot something and go home. Of course, he just ended up with a mediocre buck, not like you would hope for on a hunt that tough to draw. Did the guide deserve the government subsidy? The best way to fix the problem is not to send Oregon your money, and write them and let them know why.
 
Thanks for the help huntindude, I think my best bet is to quit sending money to Oregon. I hope for all the residents the game dept makes some changes before all the game is gone. Here in Washington we have it good, Idaho is still good, Utah is good when we draw and montana is good every other year for us. I think I will stick to those states.
 
Ok flat out if a guy wants a guranteed chance to go hunting and not wait and see what he draws in another state Oregon's Program is great. If a guy demands a 200" typical and 325" or better bulls best go somewhere else. Oregon still has some good animals roaming around, but they are few and far between.
 
Many tags can be drawn with 5 points or less, as a non-resident. Those are the ones I am interested in. I have no desire to wait 10+ years to draw a tag. Oregon may not be a good state for guys who only care about trophy animals, but if you just want to hunt it's not so bad. I will continue to give them my money every year. However, I do have a problem with the outfitter welfare going on. Why don't they take the outfitter tags out of the resident's quota, and then see how many complaints they get.
 
I have nothing aganst guides who make a living on a fair market, but do have a problem with the state government that gives them special privliges, and does not make it well known how few tags they give nonresidents for the $100 license and application fees. The 2.5% of the tags left to the regualr draw is cherry picked too, most of the realy good tags are not even available to nonresidents in the regular draw.

The whole AZ mess was started over a 10% quota, which may be a bit low, but at least is on the low end of the reasonable range. Oregon is giving out 1/4th of that after cherry picking. That is totally rediculous.
 

Similar threads

SDBugler
Elk Draw Questions
Replies
34
Views
1k
ClearCreek
C
Gorilla
Wy Point Creep Analysis
Replies
33
Views
3k
Joe2Kool
Joe2Kool
C
draw question
Replies
3
Views
893
sticksender
sticksender

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

2FFD4DC2-A5DE-42C0-9C7F-C6069931CBC0.jpeg
IMG_0093.jpeg
IMG_6576.jpeg
buckback.jpg
F589961D-5CDA-4669-A1F7-7C0851A4BFCC.jpeg
D7BA1F54-C5CA-4BD3-9DDB-CD6666C15E45.jpeg
7BF92B7C-B60C-492B-BD8C-D0AECBCD9541.jpeg
A1CF97E0-4499-4F07-8083-6E9C2B53CD21.jpeg
8EF240B6-6DA1-4095-9EBF-B033F19885CB.jpeg
IMG_8735.png
IMG-20201006-WA0035.jpg
IMG_4784.jpeg
Back
Top Bottom