Bonus Point Redemption?

[Topform]

I was wondering what everyone thought about this??? Lets say someone has been putting in for Elk in Utah for 15 years. They finally draw for a permit, hunt their guts out but do not succeed in getting an elk. Do you think it would be fair to be able to turn your tag in for half of your original bonus points and continue to be able to draw? It seems to me that hunting elk in Utah is essentially a once in a lifetime opportunity? What do you think?

 

[swbuckmaster]

eff no!!

Archery is a year round commitment!!

 

[Topform]

Thats it "eff no???" How many brain cells do you have? So day one of someone's hunt, they get a call from their wife that their kid is in the hospital, and he misses the rest of the hunt...the hunt he has waited 15 years for...what if that was you?

 

[Dahlmer]

No, absolutely not! I feel for a guy in that situation, but way too many guys would blow that loophole up.

 

[swbuckmaster]

thats too bad!
If we allow all these little loop holes people will exployt them. if you draw the tag make the best of it. take the whole hunt off. use a credit card to cover expenses if you dont have the money. hire a guide if you dont have teh time to scout. do what ever it takes cause you wont get another chance.
these hunts are a once in a life time hunt right now and they will be getting worse with the spike hunts.

there are way more people that have never drawn the tag and will never draw the tag then guys that draw and cant get it done.

Archery is a year round commitment!!

 

[antlerrick]

Not going to happen...
Life happens and you have to deal with it...
I agree with the comment about someone taking advantage of the loopholes if it ever happened..

Just commit yourself to the hunt and do all you can do to make it successful..
Some joker would not find the animal he wanted, turn the tag back in the last day, and then get another opportunity before someone who has never had a chance...

 

[LeosRedFox]

I had a friend who had a Henry's Buffalo tag. He hunted hard and had not found a bull. A guide would troll by his camp every evening hauling out a buff they had harvested taht day and offer to help him. The night before the last day, my buddy got out his check book and wrote the $2000 check for the guide. It was pay the guide or not fill his once in lifetime tag. The next morning they shot a nice bull.

Having a tag is not a gurantee to harvest a trophy. Another friend had a Boulder LE Elk and hunted every day of the hunt. Came home empty handed. He had passed on several 330-350 bulls early in the hunt. and saw nothing the final 3 days. So because he held out for a 370-380 class bull, he got nothing.

So which of these two guys should have given his points back for another chance? Even a Great Hunter with lots of skill has bad luck occassionally. Get your tag and take your chances. Who knows you may get lucky and draw again on your 1st try in 5 years when you can put in again.

 

[ARCHRYBLL]

That is why it is called HUNTING not KILLING!

 

[CATMAN]

After the hunt starts...nope. Sorry but as these guys have said...life happens...sometimes it isn't good, but its not fair to the rest of us standing in line or our kids to have someone have basically two chances at a premium hunt when everyone else basically has one. I would feel bad for the guy/gal that it happens to, but don't think for a minute that same scenario hasn't happened before now, and I do feel bad for them.

 

[luvracks]

Last year my two sons drew a Wasatch LE tag after many years of points. After all the hype prep and money spent we headed to Utah. The second day of the hunt my oldest son who had recently returned from a year on the front lines in Falluja asked me to fly him home. The post traumatic stress was destroying him and the thought of killing again was just to much at that time. It was haard to watch him fly away from such a great opportunity but thats the way it had to be. My younger boy killed a nice 6 point bull later that week. In my opinion if someone deserved a second chance it was him, but it's all good. Maybe the next time he draws the tag it will be different. But for now it's the next guy in lines turn.

 

[Topform]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-09 AT 12:24PM (MST)[p]I think that getting half the bonus points back is not a big deal. It is not like they are getting all back, and will probably take them a long long time to draw! There will probably be people who would take advantage of that, but not many...who would in their right mind slack on their hunt knowing they will only get half their bonus points back if they turn their tag in. I also think it is ridiculous for a 5 year waiting period. The odds with no points are that you wont draw anyway...yet the fish and game could be collecting the money for 5 years. Also not being able to put in for deer, elk, and antelope at the same time. If money is the game, which I am sure it is...then why don't they allow applications for all, not just one.

 

[tracker12]

Check the results. Several people drawn with low points. I drew the Fishlake ML this year and am greatful for the chance to hunt during the rut. The best elk experience I have every had. I doubt I will ever get another chance to draw that tag and that's ok. Let someone else get the enjoyment. If you can not make the hunt then I'm all for giving the points back but not because you were unsuccessful.

 

[elkhunterUT]

Topform,
Have you looked at draw odds recently and the sheer # of people putting in for these tags? It would be a HUGE deal to allow people to get half their bonus points back and will never happen. I do feel for a guy that does not fill his tag, but as has already been stated, if you draw one of these tags you better commit to it and do all you can to fill it, or you may be sorry.

The real solution we need with Elk anyway is to figure out a quicker way to get many more people through the bonus point log jam by giving more tags without damaging quality too much. I think the best way to do this is move season dates around, especially the rifle hunt out of the rut, and increase the # of primitive weapon tags (bow and muzzy)-more tags with lower harvest rates. This will get people through the system quicker and may increase the # of tags you can draw in your lifetime, which would make the sting of not filling such a highly coveted tag not quite as painful.

 

[swbuckmaster]

>LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-09
>AT 12:24?PM (MST)
>
>I think that getting half the
>bonus points back is not
>a big deal. It is
>not like they are getting
>all back, and will probably
>take them a long long
>time to draw! There
>will probably be people who
>would take advantage of that,
>but not many...who would in
>their right mind slack on
>their hunt knowing they will
>only get half their bonus
>points back if they turn
>their tag in. I
>also think it is ridiculous
>for a 5 year waiting
>period. The odds with no
>points are that you wont
>draw anyway...yet the fish and
>game could be collecting the
>money for 5 years. Also
>not being able to put
>in for deer, elk, and
>antelope at the same time.
>If money is the game,
>which I am sure it
>is...then why don't they allow
>applications for all, not just
>one.


One person taking advantage of what you are proposing is to many!

having the 5 year waiting period is also a must. this gets rid of some of the people that have drawn one of these once in a lifetime tags and helps some of the ones that will never draw.

allowing you to put in for multiple species will screw your chances even more and cost you way more money in the end. Bad Idea

IMHO you sound like someone that is new to the game of utah elk and the bonus point system.

if you want to ever have a chance to hunt elk in a le area in utah again then come to the rac meeting this fall and vote yes on the divisions proposal they will be pushing.

If Utah got rid of these gay spike tags they could also give out more big bull tags. you simply cannot kill spikes and expect to keep giving out more big bull tags. The new spike hunts are creating a larger butt plug in the bonus point system.

Archery is a year round commitment!!

 

[Topform]

I agree with you on that one!

 

[Topform]

I agree with you...get rid of the spike tags. Killing more elk will definitely mean smaller and less elk in my opinion. I like the proposal I hear about with more primitive permits and those hunts during the rut!

 

[elkantlers]

What about if you have ever drawn a limited entry elk tag or draw in the future you are out of the elk game in Utah. Make it once in a lifetime. I mean it isn't fair for someone to get lucky and draw a second elk tag when there are so many people waiting to draw their first tag.

Think about the kids.

 

[JakeH]

""What about if you have ever drawn a limited entry elk tag or draw in the future you are out of the elk game in Utah. Make it once in a lifetime. I mean it isn't fair for someone to get lucky and draw a second elk tag when there are so many people waiting to draw their first tag.""

Not fair, thats BS utah has the fairest draw system in my oppion, think about it. It benefits the guys that have been in the game forever, and it also gives you a chance to draw it your first time out, and gives you a chance to draw again.

I dont know where everybody gets the idea that they are intitled to hunt elk, that its your right, its not its the luck of the draw. plane and simple, and it is the fairest way there is, and I have not drawn a LE tag in Utah yet not any of them.

Leave the system the way it is and stop the spike hunts, start the managment hunts back up, and make people use there points for the managment hunts, move the rifle hunt into october, and give out more archery and muzzy tags. Thats the only way you are going to move the system along any faster.



Jake H. MM Member since 1999.

 

[elkantlers]

Getting rid of the spike hunts is BS. That hunt provides more opprotunity than all the LE elk hunts combined. That is one of the only ways a person can hunt elk in Utah every year.

The spike tags sell out every year. must be plenty of people willing to hunt spikes.

 

[hornhunter247]

spike hunts are as retarded as giving back bonus points! quit killing spikes, let them mature, offer more tags! shoot a Damn lead cow if you just want to hunt elk every year. and you probably guessed my response to what I think about you first question!

 

[REDDOG]

some of you clowns never cease to amaze. I'm with SW if it matters..

 

[BigRacks]

Leave your phone at home!!!!

 

[nickman]

Some of you people need to grow up.

The only guaranteed thing in this life, for anyone, is that you are going to die.

Make the most of the life you are given and quit expecting someone else to make it better for you, or give you a second chance to do it over.

I hate snivelers and whiners.

 

[Deerlove]

+ 1 JAKE

 

[Topform]

Hmmm you hate snivelers and whiners ehh? Isn't it ironic that is exactly what you are doing...sniveling and whining about snivelers and whiners? LOL!

 

[sagebucks]

No!!! If you arnt a good enough hunter to get it done in the time given that is your fault. You think it is hard to draw tags now it would be twice as hard if that were aloud.

 

[woodruffhunter]

Lets seen.... Your son or daughter is finally eligble to apply for LE elk. They apply for seven year and accrue 7 points....

You go on a LE elk hunt, and have to cut it short for the sniffles, blisters, flat tire, ATV expired registration.....
or whatever.

So you still end up with 8 points and are still ahead of junior in the points game.

Just when I think I have heard it all, someone proves me wrong.

As far as spike hunts go, fine have at. Just let the DWR have your Bonus Points.

How about this for a management plan:

1- Do away with preference points on the regional deer and elk hunts. Every hunt goes into the "Bonus Point" category.

2- Eliminate all doe hunts.

3- Go from a 5 year waiting period to 1 or no years waiting period. This might satisfy in the words of BESSY, the "opportunists", but I doubt it.

4- Reduce cow hunt tags 75%

See if things have changes in five years. If they are worse,
fire everyone in the DWR and bring in Colorado game managers to take over the deer herd...

When are people going to realize that it is not their right to hunt LE (trophy) elk in Utah????

 

[hornhunter247]

good idea use your points to hunt spikes! but who cares why anyone's hunt is a failure, you applied too bad if you draw and don't go kill or whatever!

 

[Topform]

I do have to say this is a touchy subject for people. I proposed this forum, but I do have to say I do not agree that the hunters should get half their bonus points back if they fail to harvest an animal. It is an opportunity to hunt, and not the guarantee to kill. There is more to a hunt than just killing. Peace out and may all of us stand as one to keep our hunting heritage alive!

 

[400bull]

Can you say NO..... or better yet He!! NO.

It has already been said a tags give you the OPROTUNITY to hunt, it does not promise you meat in the freezer or a trophy for the wall.

400bull

 

[schmalts]

Wow.. the kill odds on UT elk tags is really super high. Saying that, if you go home empty handed your really too picky or a crappy hunter, but that is just IMO. Sorry for being blunt, but there would be no sympathy from many