What used to be some of the best deer hunting in the West is now what I would consider average for public land deer hunting. I believe most of it can be attributed to over harvest. With all the hype the area got in the last decade, G & H attracted what I would consider a much more harder-core mule deer hunter than average. Did we skim to much cream off the top of the herd and what needs to be done?
Wyoming G and H decline
- Thread starter BUCKSPY
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Prism
Guest
Great here I was thinking I was gonna keep my mouth shut for a minute and you go and post a question like this!
Wyoming needs to put a quota on the resident hunters. I'd also agree to a cut back in the number of nonresidents that are already limited.
The large increase in resident hunters is due to a number of factors-but a lot of it has to do with the recent boom in the natural gas industry. Not too mention what is happening to the winter ranges up there.
My opinion is it's mainly due to too much pressure from 2 legged predators-residents and nonresidents alike.
Wyoming needs to put a quota on the resident hunters. I'd also agree to a cut back in the number of nonresidents that are already limited.
The large increase in resident hunters is due to a number of factors-but a lot of it has to do with the recent boom in the natural gas industry. Not too mention what is happening to the winter ranges up there.
My opinion is it's mainly due to too much pressure from 2 legged predators-residents and nonresidents alike.
Founder
Founder Since 1999
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I completely agree with you. Diehard and more skilled trophy hunters take a serious toll on trophy areas. I believe this is why the Paunsaugunt here in Utah went downhill.
Lots of guys with buddies along to help gradually killed a larger portion of top end bucks in the unit compared to prior years.
I think that is exactly what has happened in Wyoming and could happen in Colorado. The premium units in Colorado are attracting more "Trophy Deer Hunters" than ever before. Just a few years ago, I ran into many Eastern elk hunters holding deer tags in the unit. Most really didn't care about super bucks, just wanted to kill a good 4-point.
In the future, I think more trophy hunters will be in the draw for those units, which will mean more will draw, and more of the super bucks will be killed.
What can be done? That's the million dollar question! Utah cut Paunsaugunt tags, that's helped some. I think Wyoming will need to eventually make residents pick a region, or maybe shorten the hunt.
Limiting tags and shuffling season dates to make the harvest of trophy game a little less is about all I can see that can be done.
The problem is, most hunters and game biologists could careless how big bucks are, they just want a solid buck to doe and doe to fawn ratio.
Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
Lots of guys with buddies along to help gradually killed a larger portion of top end bucks in the unit compared to prior years.
I think that is exactly what has happened in Wyoming and could happen in Colorado. The premium units in Colorado are attracting more "Trophy Deer Hunters" than ever before. Just a few years ago, I ran into many Eastern elk hunters holding deer tags in the unit. Most really didn't care about super bucks, just wanted to kill a good 4-point.
In the future, I think more trophy hunters will be in the draw for those units, which will mean more will draw, and more of the super bucks will be killed.
What can be done? That's the million dollar question! Utah cut Paunsaugunt tags, that's helped some. I think Wyoming will need to eventually make residents pick a region, or maybe shorten the hunt.
Limiting tags and shuffling season dates to make the harvest of trophy game a little less is about all I can see that can be done.
The problem is, most hunters and game biologists could careless how big bucks are, they just want a solid buck to doe and doe to fawn ratio.
Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
ridgerunner
Very Active Member
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I think there are lots of factors. I'm no expert on Wyoming hunting but I have hunted G twice, 95 and 01. I saw a significant difference between the years. It seems to have attracted a much higher level of trophy hunter who undoubtedly are taking better bucks. In 01 seems like everyone I ran into was packing Zeiss, LEica, Swarovski optics(including my party) There has also been a major shift in trophy hunting attitudes over the last 15 years. Books like Hunting High Country Mule Deer have been the downfall of many a trophy buck. I'm not bashing the book(its one of my favorites) but feel it has contributed to the decline in the top end over there. Then there is the whole winter range issue, residents not having to choose an area etc. Unfortunately there seems to be a real shift towards hunting the high country and backcountry, I would expect these trends to continue in other areas over the next 10 years. G is still a special place and one I look forward to visiting again in the near future though.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-05 AT 05:15PM (MST)[p]I agree with the prior posts. The first time I set foot in G was 1986. Even as a snot nosed kid, I knew the area was something special. Over hunting by the Residents has contributed to the decline. There are more, hardcore residents hunting G and H. We all know of the Energy Developement problems. Poaching follows with the increase of Field Workers.
Another problem is ATV/Motorcycle use. There is an area in G that we used to hunt. We ride horses in and the first time there was no ATV in the area and 1 motorcycle. The last time I was in the area, there were over 16 4 wheelers (2 drainages). This area has gone downhill (much like the rest of the unit). Another area seemed to have the ATV trail pushed farther and farther into the drainage every year. So I would say easy access is a problem.
Some solutions would include closing ALL backcountry trails to ATV/Motorcycle use (they do it now before elk season). Limiting the resident and non-resident tags accordingly. Praying for moisture to help the winter range recover.
While mule deer may be very resilient, they can't handle constant pressure from every guy with a camera or a desire to get his antlers. The "Window Sticker" crowd from Utah seems to put a lot of pressure on those deer. A buck that lives in a genral hunt area does not cope the same with pressure as a buck from in a non-hunted enviornment. Maybe enforcement of the BLM closures would help, as the laws are already in place.
Another problem is ATV/Motorcycle use. There is an area in G that we used to hunt. We ride horses in and the first time there was no ATV in the area and 1 motorcycle. The last time I was in the area, there were over 16 4 wheelers (2 drainages). This area has gone downhill (much like the rest of the unit). Another area seemed to have the ATV trail pushed farther and farther into the drainage every year. So I would say easy access is a problem.
Some solutions would include closing ALL backcountry trails to ATV/Motorcycle use (they do it now before elk season). Limiting the resident and non-resident tags accordingly. Praying for moisture to help the winter range recover.
While mule deer may be very resilient, they can't handle constant pressure from every guy with a camera or a desire to get his antlers. The "Window Sticker" crowd from Utah seems to put a lot of pressure on those deer. A buck that lives in a genral hunt area does not cope the same with pressure as a buck from in a non-hunted enviornment. Maybe enforcement of the BLM closures would help, as the laws are already in place.
HunterHarry
Long Time Member
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- 5,001
I used to hunt there in the eighties.
I never got any bruisers, but I was young and inexperienced.
I did certainly hear a TON of press about the areas in the ninteys.
I think it was WAY over publicized and to an extent overhunted.
HH
I never got any bruisers, but I was young and inexperienced.
I did certainly hear a TON of press about the areas in the ninteys.
I think it was WAY over publicized and to an extent overhunted.
HH
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Sheepshooter
Guest
This past season I saw the same amount of bucks as I normally do before the season and opening morning . Including the biggest typical I've ever seen . I did observe a complete lack of almost any bucks after opening morning where I normally find them . Thet got into the thick timber in a hurry and stayed there . Maybe they are just getting smarter ?
But hey if it helps my odds of drawing a tag I'll agree . The place SUCKS , stay away .
But hey if it helps my odds of drawing a tag I'll agree . The place SUCKS , stay away .
B
BUNKHOLE
Guest
I believe the neighboring SE Idaho units went downhill also from the 1000+ NR tags and unlimited resident tags sold.
Not only do the ATV's keep making new trails. But horse trails up every single basin as well. A party of 5 horse riders riding/camping up the middle of every basin spooks the deer every bit as much as ATV's. One of these basin's was so rugged it must have taken some serious work to scratch a trail into it. The persuit of trophy mule deer has gotten out of control. And as much as I or anyone else likes to blame other people, it simply boils down to the fact that there are too many of us out there, with better methods, better gear, etc. The only prommising thing I saw in Western WY was the amount of young bucks and fawns. I think next year is going to be worse than this year. But 2-4 years down the road could be looking good if folks lay off the 2-3 year old bucks and the winters stay mild.
The only sure way to protect such a great area is to reduce tags. Because just like SE Idaho, people will start shooting medium sized bucks to fill a tag when that becomes the standard for the area.
The only sure way to protect such a great area is to reduce tags. Because just like SE Idaho, people will start shooting medium sized bucks to fill a tag when that becomes the standard for the area.
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
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I saw quite a few nice bucks while hunting 'G' this year. More while bowhunting than during the rifle hunt. Only saw two guys on horseback in the basin I choose to hunt on the rifle opener. I didn't really notice a crowd control issue.
I went with my bud to fill his elk tag and we where in an 'H' buck unit for his bull. We couldn't believe the nice bucks we saw after the rifle buck had been open for two weeks already.
Maybe they should flip-flop the openers for deer and elk. Have the rifle elk hunters opener a week before the rifle deer hunt dates.
When I did the Bear River Zone bow hunt for elk in Idaho and the SE Idaho buck tag, the rifle elk hunters came in the week before the rifle deer opened. Deer got pushed around but not killed and when the deer hunt opened they were not so easy to harvest/find.
Just my .04 cents worth..
I went with my bud to fill his elk tag and we where in an 'H' buck unit for his bull. We couldn't believe the nice bucks we saw after the rifle buck had been open for two weeks already.
Maybe they should flip-flop the openers for deer and elk. Have the rifle elk hunters opener a week before the rifle deer hunt dates.
When I did the Bear River Zone bow hunt for elk in Idaho and the SE Idaho buck tag, the rifle elk hunters came in the week before the rifle deer opened. Deer got pushed around but not killed and when the deer hunt opened they were not so easy to harvest/find.
Just my .04 cents worth..
M
Muleyfinder
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-05 AT 03:08PM (MST)[p]As a Wyoming resident and a person that hunts these areas religiously and deals with the wildlife officals in my area.I can honestly say that nothing is going to be done about this deer herd tell it is to late. Several of us Concerned sportsman in the community past out petitions in Kemmerer,Rocksprings, GreenRiver,Evanston,Labarge,Bigpiney,Pinedale. And had literally thousands of signatures to get these areas put on limited Quota for residents but the Game and Fish officals in our area refused and said there isn't a problem with the heards.We then we had meetings to discuss it in the community and all the Game and Fish officials wanted to do was argue with us and say there is not a problem and say the only problem is the antler hunters. The same thing happened 20 years ago in our area with the sage chickens, the # were diclining and we wanted something done and nothing happened and 20 years later they want them put on the Endangered Specias Act. These head officails in Cheyenne that are managing our deer heards behind a desk and getting told how to manage our herds by rich ranchers who don't want competition for feed are not going to issue less tags in an area that is suppling the state with its main amount of tag revenue.
G
graybeard
Guest
It all comes down to too many tags sold on an area trying to recoop from the drought. Look also at unit 100 and 82, since the place got popular with residents and the drought was in place, the big bucks went downhill... Too many hunters...
C
camuleycrazy
Guest
I think that the heavy pressure mostly by residents is the #1 problem. It is not the trophy hunters because alot of them will not kill the smaller bucks. Limiting the resident hunting in these units would fix most of the problem in a few years. Sure there are other problems but overharvest is the main thing. I hunted G this year and did not see the numbers or quality I've seen in the past and 3 of us did not see a buck big enough to kill so we ate tag soup. These areas are special and I can't kill a buck for meat there. I won't go back until things improve so Wyo. will be out my dollars. Take heed Wyo. game managers.
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boneaddict
Guest
Maybe they should move a couple dozen wolves into the area to strengthen the herd a bit. You know, weed out some of those sickly substandard deer. j/k
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sneak
Guest
Packout: I agree with your statement on road closure enforcement. The problem stems from the lack of officers within the USFS and BLM to actually enforce the laws. We have similar closures in several areas of Colorado (usually called "Travel Management Plans") and while the plans are excellent and well thought-out, they are largely ingnored because the violators are fully aware they are more likely to be struck by lightning than to run into an enforcement officer.
The way we've handled the issue was to meet with the enforcement officials before season and obtain their contact info (usually they give you a state patrol switchboard number, then relay your call, or the operator will radio the officer). That way, when we encountered violations, we'd get as much info as we could (description, plate/permit numbers, etc) and report them. In some cases an officer could get there and handle the violation immediately; in other cases they'd ask if we'd be willing to testify in court if necessary and then they'd contact the violator at home and ticket them. In any event, we've seen a significant decrease in the road-closure violations in several areas we frequent.
The way we've handled the issue was to meet with the enforcement officials before season and obtain their contact info (usually they give you a state patrol switchboard number, then relay your call, or the operator will radio the officer). That way, when we encountered violations, we'd get as much info as we could (description, plate/permit numbers, etc) and report them. In some cases an officer could get there and handle the violation immediately; in other cases they'd ask if we'd be willing to testify in court if necessary and then they'd contact the violator at home and ticket them. In any event, we've seen a significant decrease in the road-closure violations in several areas we frequent.
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Prism
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-05 AT 07:43PM (MST)[p]I think the wolves and grizzlies are making themselves at home in both the Wyoming and Salt River ranges.
While the energy boom eats up the winter range, the workers find plenty to do during the down time-like poach.
I'm sure there is a whole lot more of this type of thing going on and it's only likely going to get worse.
Found this on Wyoming's website.
http://gf.state.wy.us/services/news/pressreleases/05/11/18/051118_1.asp
I think I'd rather have the Utah boys up there taking pics than some idiots out there shooting everything.
While the energy boom eats up the winter range, the workers find plenty to do during the down time-like poach.
I'm sure there is a whole lot more of this type of thing going on and it's only likely going to get worse.
Found this on Wyoming's website.
http://gf.state.wy.us/services/news/pressreleases/05/11/18/051118_1.asp
I think I'd rather have the Utah boys up there taking pics than some idiots out there shooting everything.
I totally agree with each of your comments Prism. If it wasn't for a few of us going up there and watching the winter range now and then I doubt there would be any reason for the POACHERS to be worried at all about getting caught. Personally I think that having a few guys around now and then keeps the trigger happy fellers from going completely ballistic and shooting everything that moves! I can't beleive the G&F thinks that shed hunters are the problem and that they cause more trouble than too many tags does. That is just plain stupid! I don't doubt one bit that a few older age class bucks may end up getting pressured and maybe even dying a little earlier than they might have if they were not getting pressured. From what I've seen personally the bucks are usually getting up there in age anyway though and it's just a matter of time before nature will take them down anyway. I can guarantee you one thing though. Each buck that gets a bullet in his A$$ WILL DIE FOR SURE no matter how old he is! Limit the number of hunters! Yeah it might cost the G&F a little money up front but at least we'll all have something left later on!
I love the place and hope like he11 something is done before it's too late...
NvrEnuf
I love the place and hope like he11 something is done before it's too late...
NvrEnuf
