SFW membership dollars kill coyotes

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huntinco

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This info was posted on the SFW site. Personally I think coyotes take a huge toll on our fawn crops thereby drastically lowering deer numbers. What are your thoughts?
Justin Richins
www.huntinco.com

SFW-Utah's Bryce Pilling, board member from Millard county, does a great job keeping us all updated on the coyote management effort going on in the state. Bryce reports the following numbers of coyotes have been harvested using Fixed Wing Aircraft by Wildlife Services to date this fall. Helicopters, because of their higher cost, are waiting for better conditions to maximize our investment.

55 coyotes taken in Box Elder County
100 coyotes taken on the Pahvant
80 taken in the Vernon area
35 taken in the Cedar area

The January issue of "American Hunter" has some interesting Stats on Coyote Kills as follows:
80% the number of antelope fawns killed by coyotes in one Texas study
86% the number of whitetail fawns killed by coyotes in an Oklahoma research project
Double the improvement in fawn-to- doe ratio in a South Texas study during two years of predator control with 188 coyotes & 120 bobcats removed from 5,000 acres
30% the difference in whitetail fawn survival when a fenced, coyote -free 1,000 acre area was compared to the area outside the enclosure
5 out of 9 the number of successful kills of adult deer and elk by coyote packs in Yellowstone in 1995 as observed by researchers. YES COYOTES KILL MATURE DEER & ELK
95,000/$3,170,000.00 The number of cattle and calves coyotes killed nationwide in 2001 and the cost of that lost livestock,respectively
165,000/$9,600,000.00 the number of sheep and lambs coyotes killed nationwide in 1999 and the cost of that lost livestock, respectively
#1 the Coyotes rank as livestock predator in the United States
The article also states that coyotes are also killing Moose in Newfoundland.

To get our deer herds back we have to keep up and should really be stepping up Coyote Harvest.

SFW members should feel proud to know that some of their membership dollars have gone directly into paying for these aircraft coyote harvests. In the long run, it will mean a more health deer herd.
 
Yotes are necessary and I love to shoot them. They do take a good number of fawn each year but are nearly the problem wolves and grizz are when NOT CONTROLLED!! They control a lot of pests for us.
 
Without Coyotes we would be overrun with rodents. Mice, voles, gophers, rabbits. They should be controlled, but not exterminated. I love watching them hunt! They are very good at it.
 
exterminate coyotes?????.....there isn't enough dollars available to even come close to that. No need to worry about the coyotes, they will do just fine. A heavy control program will not cause any problems. My guess, is that coyote numbers are at an all time high. There was even a study by the UW , I believe, on urban coyotes that live within the city limits of Seattle. The USDA used to conduct yearly coyote control programs in the 70's, but I do not think that this program is anywhere close to the level it used to be.

My guess is that the increased coyote populations are probably the single biggest factor in the systemic decline in mule deer populations across the West. The problem is that it is just too hot of an issue for game depts to tackle. Widespread ariael coyote control by a state agency is a public relations nightmare waiting to happen. Ever wonder why the game depts all over the West always blame the mule deer problems on "habitat" or drought? I find it interesting when I hunt an area that has not changed one bit in a hundred years, and the rangeland is in beautiful condition, that there are still fewer deer and fewer mature bucks then in the past. The habitat and drought routine is a pretty easy out for them. Blame it on the private land developers and mother nature........and relieves them of having to make tough choices about reduced hunting tags or predator control programs.

The anecdotal evidence is overwhelming that the populations are very high, they are running all over the place, much more than even in the 1980's. Control the coyotes and you will see an almost instantaneous increase in the deer herd and fawn recruitment levels. The primary problem with the mule deer herds is the poor fawn recruitment. Stop worrying about things you cannot change (mother nature, private land development) and worry about the ones that can make an actual change for once.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-05-06 AT 08:50AM (MST)[p]Muleyguy, if you have citations for your remarks would you mind posting them for us? I'd like to review the data for myself.

Your statement, "My guess is that the increased coyote populations are probably the single biggest factor in the systemic decline in mule deer populations across the West."

What did you base your guess on?

"Control the coyotes and you will see an almost instantaneous increase in the deer herd and fawn recruitment levels. The primary problem with the mule deer herds is the poor fawn recruitment. Stop worrying about things you cannot change (mother nature, private land development) and worry about the ones that can make an actual change for once."

Again, if you have some evidence of this would you mind posting it?

I have heard of this being true for antelope, has it also been proven true for muledeer? What about elk? Is it true for elk too?

I'm not saying you're not correct, I asking for the information, or a citation for it, in order for me to review that information and come to my own conclusion.

Every place is unique. I'm sure that coyotes adapt and modify their behavior based on a number of influences, including the availability of food.

Thanks,


"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
Finalshoot, Muleyguy speak-um truth.
I can't cite any data for you, but if you talk to any sheep ranchers around here it ain't to complicated, that when you take away their primary tool for coyote control, that yote populations will grow.
Cyanide & 10-80 were very effective tools for putting a biff in the coyote #'s.
I think the ten in 10-80 meant that it was lethal, to the tenth dead critter feasted on.
 
My reasons for believing that the coyote population is primarily responsible for the systemic mule deer decline in the West is not based on any studies. It is based on a personal belief. I believe the few studies that have been conducted on this subject have been biased to no look at the predator problem, and instead have focused on other issues (once again, just my opnion) But, when looking at the mule deer problem across the West, what we see is a decline over the entire area. I doubt this is coincidence. So, to look at what is causing it, you have to look to problems that could arise over many different habitat areas, many different states, many differen management programs, and many different rainfall/winter issues. The problem with just saying habitat is the problem is that there are areas all over the West where habitat is just fine. Same with drought and all the other reasons we always hear.
So, to look for causes points you in only a few directions. One is predators because, and especially coyotes, because they are one of the constatnts over the entire West. We also all know from personal experience that there are a lot more coyotes running around these days than in the 70' and 80's. I am not saying it is all due to coyotes, but coyotes are one of the few potential causes that is in every state, every habitat, everywhere.

As far as the proof, I believe the previous poster provided some studies that showed the fawn recruitment increases, and I know there was a study in Arizona (I think) that was discussed at length on MM last year that found dramatic differences. Since deer populations grow exponentially, small increases in fawn recruitment can have huge impacts on the deer herd in a short amount of time.

I have also heard, like you have, that they are particularily devastating to antelope. I think elk tolerate coyotes better just because they are not as far down in the lowlands in the winter and spring as the mule deer are. The populations of elk and coyotes do not overlap as much as mule deer and coyotes.

I also think that in addition to the coyote problem on mule deer, that the expansion of elk have had its impact also. Elk seem to dominate in an area when their numbers go up.
 
Seems like there are some pretty good statistics in the January issue of "American Hunter" (quoted by the first poster)

I know back in the 1970's the BLM would provide a helicopter and a shotgun and they would take my dad out shooting coyotes on the range. I also remember in the 80's when yote hides were $75-$125 each and LOTS of people were out killing dogs all winter.

At the current price of $25 I won't skin a coyote.

I really don't think there is any chance of exterminating them, nor do I think we need to, however, we do need to control their numbers and its especially important to put some pressure on them during the spring when the fawns are hitting the ground.
 
Coyote kills on deer are a drop in the bucket compared to hunters. Coyotes may take a deer now and then, but it is nothing compared to 100,000 hunters. Hunter numbers are a lot easier to control than coyote numbers.
 
it's not that coyotes are killing too many adult deer, you are right, they do not get a tremendous amount of adults, especially compared to hunters. But, remember, hunters kill primarily bucks, coyotes make no distinction and I am sure the bulk of their adult kills are does, just because does make up most of the population. And, when a coyote kills an adult doe, that is much more damaging then killing an adult buck.

The primary problem is that coyotes are absoutely devastating to the fawns. Especially right after birth, they have evolved to know when the does drop them. The absolute most important aspect of keeping good levels of deer population is fawn recruitment. That is the key. The biologists know that the key is the fawn recruitment, but they have been blaming the continual poor fawn recruitment on habitat losses and drought across the West.

I do agree with the 4000fps second though that us hunters are also part of the problem. Since hunters are focused on shooting bucks, overhunting, especially in a smaller population base, reduces the number of mature bucks.

Really it is common sense on figuring out what is going. The problem with the mule deer across the West are two things: 1. A much smaller population base vs the historical norms. 2. A much smaller amount of mature bucks in the population. Both of these problems are rooted in large part to both predators, coyotes and humans. Both of us need to be controlled.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-06 AT 03:19PM (MST)[p]Mulyguy, please tell us how it is that you can come to those conclusions about mule deer in the west. In many areas, mule deer are at historically high numbers, and a smaller number of mature bucks do not necessarily affect the reproduction rates from one year to the next. Too few mature bucks may have long-term impacts on the integrity of the heard, but from year-to-year, immature bucks will service does, so long as their reproductive systems are working properly. In other words, it's harmful to a deer population over the long-run to have too few mature bucks, but from one year to the next, the smaller, 1.5 to 3.5 year old deer will service most, if not all the available does. Mule deer are not like people; the bucks will breed if allowed, as soon as they are physically able.

Please, tell us how it is that you are able to draw your conclusion and then apply them to all mule deer in the west?


"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
Mulyguy, you are right on track, As for TFinalshot, I dont know what your are smoking
 
Where are mule deer populations at historic highs? And Texas/Nebraska or the Dakotas don't count.

Immature bucks will breed does later in the season resulting in later births, smaller fawn weights going into the winter and therefore more fawn mortality.

Immature bucks will also be slower at breeding the deer than mature bucks, leading to a "strung out" fawning season, which leads to fawn mortality.

Yes, the herd can survive in the short term but there are immediate impacts.
 
TF,
I never argued that one of the causes for reduced mule deer herds was an inadequate amount of bucks for breeding. There are enough bucks to do the breeding. The problem is that the age structure is completely messed up. I have no idea what the long term implications of this are; but I do know that this is not how mother nature intended it, she did not set the system up so the immature bucks should be doing the breeding. By allowing liberal hunting seasons, man has caused the buck population structures throughout the West to be heavily skewed towards immature bucks. I am going to go out on a limb here, but my guess is that at some point we will come to realize that a population base that is being primarily breed by 1.5 year old and 2.5 year old deer is not a healthy one.

As far as mule deer herd levels in the West; you are completely wrong, and will not be able to provide statistics to back it up. There might be spotty areas, or certain units within particular states that have seen a rebound, but if you go state by state and compare todays mule deer herds to the last two decades (70's 80's), they are down.

Please tell me if you disagree with these three statements, or if they are not "biologically" correct:

1. The biggest impact on the structure of the buck mule deer population is humans.

2. The key to maintaining stable healthy mule deer herds is the fawn recruitment. When looking at the cause of systemic, poor fawn recruitment, over the entire West, over all the different habitats, management systems, rainfall patterns, doesn't it make sense to look at the constants over this entire area? How many constants can you come up with over this huge geographic area?

3. You keep wanting me to prove that coyotes seriously hurt deer populations, LOOK at the data that was posted in the initial post. Are you saying it is false? I can go dig more up if you like.

It is not rocket science, and educated people can come to factual conclusions without having to rely on somebody elses biased study.

Wildlife managers are not going to come out with a study that says we are harvesting too many deer or that coyotes are killing too many fawns.

The wildlife agencies in the West are driven by political and monetary considerations, just like any other state organization.
 
a few minutes of searching the web for the big three mule deer states herds:

UTAH: The 2002 post-season population estimate for mule deer in Utah was 280,000 deer, far below the long term management objective of 426,000 deer

WYOMING (not the entire state, but you get the idea): Game and Fish has set a population objective of 50,000 animals for the Wyoming Range herd unit, but the agency estimated in 2004 the population at about 31,000 mule deer, according to department figures.

COLORADO: This year's post-hunt deer population was estimated at 600,900, still below the statewide objective but a substantial rebound from the 1997 low of 526,000. Although there are twice as many deer as elk in Colorado, the state's mule deer herds have been below objectives set by the DOW.
 
Many people are making some good and interesting points. I firmly believe it is a variety of reasons, I do not think you can blame it soley on coyotes. Deer and coyotes evolved over thousands of years so I have a hard time thinking coyotes will cause deer to disappear. With that being said I do think coyotes can take advantage of a weakend deer population. The habitat has changed and has changed what I believe to be drastically in many areas. You have millions of acres of cheat grass invasion in the west and that is a major problem with deer habitat. You have a conversion of our forests to dense stands of pine with almost zero openings to allow sunlight to hit the ground, look at the old pictures (I can only speak about California), it use to be a couple big trees, some small trees, grass and shrubs but now you have dang near 100% canopy closure. In northeastern california you have an explosion of Juniper trees, which also block sunlight and suck water out of the ground. You have development of deer wintering areas, competiton with cattle, etc. All these things stack up against the deer. So now you have a doe going into winter in not the best condition she may abort or have smaller birthweight fawns or fawn. It takes this fawn longer to be able to avoid predators making it more susceptile, so it gets eaten by a coyote or a bear. Many people blame the coyote but it is a combination of all these things. An unhealthy doe that aborts and has no fawns is not really talked about, just if something kills the fawns. If one small link is degraded or missing in all the things deer need then it can mess up the entire system. But hey, those are just my thoughts for what it is worth.

Joe
 
Great numbers, now show me the link to your conclusions.

I'm not trying to badger you I just would like to see where you are getting the information that leads you to the conclusion that its all about coyotes and deer maturity.









"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
Don't blame coyotes, blame the DOW. The mule deer were so high in numbers in the 60's that the DOW issued multiple buck tags. That knocked the herd down in short order. There were just as many coyotes in the 60's as there are now.

Then the DOW more than doubled the deer rifle season days in Colorado in the mid 80's, and it really wiped out the herd. But the DOW blamed drought and predators.
 
TF,

It is not hard to do the research; I am sure you can figure it out. The three examples above came directly from department press releases. I tell you what, why don't you provide me with the links about how mule deer numbers in the West are "at historical highs" as you said in a previous post. Not certain areas, not just one state, but a majority of states in the West are at historical highs.

As far as my specific beliefs on the coyote problem, let me try and be clear once again, IT IS MY OPINION.

But, how I see the coyote problem play out is this. First of all I belive that coyote numbers are higher now than they were in the 60's 70' and 80's because of the lack of govt controls and the reduced tools available to ranchers. I judge this on my experience in the field, I hunt at least three states a year, and the increase in the coyote population has been dramatic. I think that is the experience of others on this site also.

Many of the different areas of the West have different issues that, at certain times, can cause mule deer declines; some areas have winter range development; some areas have occasional drought; some areas are just fine; some areas have had several bad winters; some areas have poor wildlife management;

Outside of winter range development and bad wildlife management, mule deer have been subjected to these environmental issues during their entire existence, they are things the mule deer herds have been dealing with for hundreds of years. When you have a herd that is being stressd from one of these normally occuring issues, it becomes very vulnerable to predators. When you marry these very normal problems with a high coyote population, the result is a herd that becomes very vulnerable.

It is not in question that game depts in the West have been very concerned about this systemic decline, they even commissioned a multi-state study to look at it several years ago.

The problem is that issues like habitat, drought, non-logging of forests are all regional issues, not over the entire west. An example is this: people say that the lack of logging has resulted in a forest that is not suitable for mule deer anymore. Ok, well, how does that explain that mule deer numbers are also down in the non-forested areas?

All I ever hear from game depts is the very generic term "habitat"; so we are to believe that there has been a systemic wide breakdown in the quality of habitat across the entire west?? I don't believe it.

Deer herds grow exponentially, so little changes in fawn recruitment result in big changes down the line. Fawn recruitment levels have been stubbornly low for years in the West, it just so happens that this is the area where coyotes do the most damage.

I am not blaming every deer herd problem on coyotes; but high coyote levels exacerbate normal challenges that mule deer herds encounter, maginfying the effect.

Once again this is my opinion based on these four facts that I have come to believe: 1. Coyote population are much higher today than 10, 20 or 30 years ago. 2. Mule deer herds have had a very stubborn time recovering from the dramatic drop in herd levels in the 90's. 3. There are several studies from credible sources that have shown coyotes cause serious problems with fawn recruitment. 4. Coyotes are one of the few constants across the many, many different situations across the West.
 
This is from the Canadian Journal of Zoology:

Abstract: Young ungulates are considered especially susceptible to predation in the initial weeks following birth. However, the timing of mortality can vary depending on the availability of alternative prey and the type of predator, and could vary depending on antipredator defenses used by prey. I used coyote (Canis latrans) scats, observations of coyote hunting behaviour, and mortality data for deer to examine seasonal variation in coyote feeding behaviour and mortality of sympatric white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus) and mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus) fawns. Coyotes captured the vast majority of deer they consumed, forming groups that hunted deer from June through March. Coyotes were observed hunting deer most often in winter when ground squirrels were not available, and an inverse correlation between the amount of deer and ground squirrel in coyote scat reflected this relationship (rs=0.77, P=0.004). Fawns of both species had poor survival rates in 1994 (1 of 10 tagged whitetails survived to 1 year, none of 22 mule deer survived), improved survival rates in 1995 (33% of 15 whitetails, 25% of 24 mule deer), and most mortality appeared to be due to coyote predation. The season in which fawns of each species were most vulnerable differed. Tagged whitetail fawns had similar mortality rates in early summer, when they were less than 8 weeks old, as they did in winter, when they were 5-9 months old (35 and 37%, respectively, in 1995). In contrast, mule deer fawns had low mortality rates in early summer (4% in 1994, 17% in 1995), but high mortality rates in winter (100% in 1994, 53% in 1995). Changes in fawn:doe ratios and the examination of carcasses similarly indicated that coyotes captured more whitetails in summer and more mule deer in winter. The seasonal variation in mortality rates of the two species cannot be explained by physical prey characteristics, their relative abundance, or extrinsic factors, and may be due instead to species differences in antipredator behaviour.



This is from year 2004 and was put out by the Montana Fish and Game:


Protecting Natural Resources?The number of mule deer has been declining for several years in many western States including Montana. One reason for this decline may be predation on mule deer fawns. WS is assisting the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks in reducing coyote populations in specific deer management districts where the number of deer are below desired levels. To meet objectives identified by the Department, WS uses aerial operations to protect mule deer and antelope fawns. In addition to receiving federally allocated funds, WS also receives money from cooperators; such as producers; private individuals; businesses; and other Federal, State, and local government agencies who have a vested interest in the program. In most cases, these cooperators need help to resolve wildlife damage problems or they play a role in wildlife damage management.


Do you want me to keep going???? I can find people who do not believe that coyotes cause severe problems, but it is only from the websites of PETA and the Fund for Animals.
 
I still think if the SFW wants to really put a hurting on the coyotes in Utah or other States they have to get the States to let NR hunters shoot them during deer and elk season, I know I see alot of them during this time, With all those hunters able to kill coyotes during this time, it would have to make a impact.
 
huntico

I would like to know where the 188 coyotes and 120 bobcats were killed on 5000 acres if you have that info. That is alot of critters.
 
we need better predator control all over the western usa. mountain lions and coyotes are pilaging the california & oregon deer.
 
High predator numbers can have a dramatic effect on mule deer populations when the conditions are right. There are lots of studies and history to prove that to be the case, but lots of those studies get "buried" in the paper maze. The 15 year CA Kings River deer herd study is a classic one to read. Think about it,,if you start out in the spring with 190 fawns per 100 does and the following spring you only have 30-40 per 100 left, it's hard to believe they all died from starvation in a normal winter. Personal life observations are the best teacher there is. You can see thru the BS that tends to cloud the water. If you've lived thru the 60's, 70's 80's, and 90's to the present time and have seen the mule deer populations change and you know the history of predator control efforts it all makes sense. Spend much time on deer winter range when there is snow cover and see the amount of coyotes and lions and the lack of deer compared to the late 80's. A killed mule deer buck is gone in a couple of days. Not much left but a hair pile. Now what will be done,,, nothing. Way to politically sensitive to even talk about seriously, let alone actually suggest and implement, and too costly for game departments to actually do. Much easier to just blame the weather and raise license fees as needed to cover salary increases and operational costs. Hunters will just have to live with the decreases in mule deer populations and tag numbers. Sad but true. We used to practice wildlife management, now it seems to just be a matter of shuffling hunters around. The "predator pit" seems to be here to stay.

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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.
 
Gator, just for your info. You do not need a license to shoot coyotes in Utah. In fact there is a 20 dollar per coyote bounty in almost every county. Utah will spend another 500K flying and killing coyotes this year. I saw a coyote chasing deer Saturday. Out of range though.
 
I know of a rancher who had a cancer-eyed cow. He trailed that cow up into a remote part of the range and shot the cow. He then laced the carcass with a particular poison that is available (not condoning it, just saying...)

The next week he went back up to the carcass and found something like 20 dead coyotes.

This used to be common practice (lacing carcasses with poisons, 1080 in particular)and it is not done anymore.

It also used to be fairly common to find several people who shot 50+ coyotes every winter. That was when hides were $75-$125 each. This isn't done anymore.

How can we have fewer coyotes when there is little to no harvest? I'm not in favor of lacing carcasses due to the non-specific results, but it sure made a difference on the predators.

I don't think anyone here is blaming 100% of the deer decline on predators alone, it is one piece of the puzzle that needs to be addressed.
 
I know that predators are not the only problem, but I think they are 80% of it. When I see 20 head of does and there is only 2 or 3 fawns that proves to me that either it is predators getting the fawns or that there is not enough bucks to breed the does. Way to many tags for the bucks that we don't have. Not enough tags for the cougars and coyotes that we do have
 
I'm not sure where your from 388 net, but in Utah....cougar numbers are WAY down. If you don't believe me, just get a tag and start buying fuel to find a lion track. Several friends of mine said the same thing, and I let them hunt all winter for tracks. They now agree that there is something besides cougars that are causing the deer populations to decrease. Coyotes are a problem yes a big problem, but hunting deer from August to December didn't use to be a practice that is being used now. That along with the number of tags being issued will surely decimate any herd of deer. Until the DWR regulate tag numbers we will never see the deer herds come back like they were in the 60's. Just my .02
 
catman

I am from southern utah and I know every time we get a fresh snow storm I could go out and find a cat track. Yes there is to much pressure on deer and to many tags also. I know with a name like catman you would probally rather hunt cats than deer also. I was on a lion hunt last year and came across three deer kills that the lion made all within the last week or two. And I know that not too many hunters are killing does. What is happening to them.......... Yes coyotes are a big problem probally bigger than lions, but if you and your buddies can't find a cat track come up here and I hope you got alot of fresh dogs.
 
Since most of these responses are based on opinion..here's mine.

There are more coyote hunters out now then ever. If you don't buy into that, just go to your local Sportmans and look at the number of preditor calls, videos and such. That stuff is not there because its not selling.

The only chance I have in not running into someone while out coyote hunting is hunting the weekdays. Never use to be like that and I usually head 2hrs out from the house. Yes, they become call shy and dont respond as well, but don't think the numbers getting killed are not greater then in the past.

We want to wipe out the coyote, but do nothing about all the fork horns and two points that get wiped out every year during the rifle hunt, not even mentioning the number of does tags that the UT DWR hands out. We may have a hell of a time controlling the coyotes, but we sure can control the tag allotment.

I have read articles and studies in the past that discuss coyote breeding and litters. The harder they get hunted and poisoned, the larger the litters become trying to make up for the lowering population.

Want to make an immediate difference, control the number of yearlings that get shot and the number of does taken. Look at area's like the BookCliffs that are closed down for a time and then reopened...people are clamering for those tags. Did they wipe out the coyotes in those areas..nope..and you never will.
 
I never said I support that kind of deer management, however what's not true about what I said?


"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
Here's some facts, not opinions from the 15 year, 1970 to 1985 study done by Neal and Steger.
1. The deer herd declined from 17,000 animals to about 2,000 animals.
2. Fawn survival was the problem. It only averaged 38%. 2% died in accidents, 9% from disease, and predators took 51% of the fawns. (coyotes 27% and lions 49%)
The ratio of deer to mountain lions went from 750:1 to 30:1.
Quote = "mountain lions appear to be controlling an already depressed deer herd, and they are apparently not benefiting the population by taking only the weak and old. The density of the lion population is not limited by the need for exclusive territories, and reproduction is continuing within this high-density population."
I spend a lot of time outdoors in the winter. Two years ago I saw 26 sets of lion tracks and this year I'm up to 19 already. Most lion hunters only want large toms. (Lots of lion country has few or no roads, gets little snow to assist hunters in finding lion tracks and has few lion hunters.) The smaller females are left to breed away. And lions kill all deer they can catch. Not just bucks like most human deer hunters but pregnant does. That's like killing 3 deer with one bite. Deer are hard to find anymore and seem to be relentlessly pursued by lions, keeping them on the move. Lions take rabbits, chukar, porkys, pack rats etc as the opportunity's arise all while looking for bigger meals. A friend took a 168 lb lion last year and his belly was full of pack rats! We are truly returning to the days when John Fremont the explorer came through, very little big game animals.


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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.
 
I noticed the Arizona study mentioned earlier, I don't remember where I read about the study, but basically it was a study done by a Professor from the University of Texas and a student with the cooperation of the G&F. They fenced a large area along a canyon that is comprised of some pinyon juniper habitat and reached down to some desert country. According to the study, the only difference between inside the fence and outside the fence, was all predators were removed from inside the fence. The state happened to be in severe drought conditions during most of the study. I believe the actual theme of the study was the carrying capacity of winter range. The study showed that state wide the deer heard declined except inside the study area, where it actually increased by a fairly good percentage.
I also know that during the 60s, 70s, and 80s, there used to be alot of trapping activity by individuals that were very good at it, and even though a person may see more people out coyote hunting, most of these people are not nearly as efficient at it, and actually kill less coyotes. One indicator of the number of coyotes is the number found dead along the interstate. On a 20 mile stretch of I-40 from my hometown, at any given time you can count at least 5 to6 dead coyotes, when you used to almost never see a dead coyote on the side of the road. Hope this helps, but if you can find a copy of the Arizona study it is some very interesting reading.
BOL, Kim

BS Hunting Club Co-founder
 
Here is a link to the 3-Bar Wildlife Area study. It is a press release from the AZG&F. It is a good read if you have a couple minutes. For what it is worth I have seen way more coyotes in the recent past then I have ever seen before. Here is the link.

http://www.muledeer.org/news/PSA-AZ.html
 

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