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Utah quality hunt posibilities?
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stinkystomper
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Dec-06-09, 
11:11 AM (MST)
"Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I would like to throw out a thought in refrence to a previous post I made. I noticed this year while hunting in Utah there seems to be a serious problem. I'm used to hunting in NM where it is most definitely possible to get away from the crowds even with 3 fold more tags per acre as compared to Utah. Do we get to hunt mature bulls every year in NM? No, I've only drawn 2 tags in 23 years of applying and one was basically a general season type of tag I guess you could say. Point is that Utah is completely over run with pressure, not hunters, during the LE elk hunts. Do I think there are too many tags? No way! I noticed that on average most utah tag holders had at least 15 people out helping them to find a bull. There were some camps that had over 50 people in them to help find one bull. How many bulls are going to be completely pushed out of the rut by the sheer amount of pressure people are putting on them? I'm sure a lot. What can be done? I say treat LE as if they were the quality areas they are suppose to be. In NM when you draw an oryx tag you are given authorization to only take so many people with you. On the valles caldera hunt you are again only allowed to take "x" amount of people with you on that elk hunt. How would this work? I say give authorizations to hunters, say 5 for each hunter to give to their friends. Anyone found off the roads without an authorization would be fined $500. Basically close the forest and only allow authorized personell to be in there. Wouldn't work you say. NM does it every year to our national forests when the fire danger is too high. So why not do this for a week during hunting season? It could be done, has been done in other states, and can work. However, I'm sure most utards wanna say they have the cards stacked against them and that its an unfair advantage and that the guy with 2 hired guys is cheating and that they need to have 20x more people on the mountain to make it kinda fair which still isn't fair because for some reason if you pay someone to guide you that makes them 100x more successful at finding and killing big animals. Just my two cents.

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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: Utah quali...  marley      Dec-06-09   1 
  RE: Utah quali...  RamoneAlone      Dec-06-09   2 
 RE: Utah quali...  allaboutelk6      Dec-06-09   3 
 RE: Utah quali...  Wes      Dec-06-09   4 
  RE: Utah quali...  stinkystomp...      Dec-06-09   5 
   RE: Utah quali...  wildarrow      Dec-06-09   19 
   RE: Utah quali...  wildarrow      Dec-06-09   20 
  RE: Utah quali...  RamoneAlone      Dec-06-09   6 
  RE: Utah quali...  LESGO54      Dec-06-09   7 
   RE: Utah quali...  ducksbucksa...      Dec-06-09   8 
 RE: Utah quali...  Prism      Dec-06-09   9 
  RE: Utah quali...  mickeyelk      Dec-06-09   10 
   RE: Utah quali...  one_dryboot      Dec-06-09   11 
 RE: Utah quali...  NVBighorn      Dec-06-09   12 
 RE: Utah quali...  eelgrass      Dec-06-09   13 
  RE: Utah quali...  slamdunk      Dec-06-09   14 
   RE: Utah quali...  huntingjlc      Dec-06-09   15 
 RE: Utah quali...  shotgunjim      Dec-06-09   16 
  RE: Utah quali...  Muley_73      Dec-06-09   17 
   RE: Utah quali...  Coyote_chas...      Dec-06-09   18 
    RE: Utah quali...  stinkystomp...      Dec-06-09   21 
     RE: Utah quali...  Muley_73      Dec-07-09   22 
      RE: Utah quali...  scoutdog5      Dec-07-09   23 
 RE: Utah quali...  dillon      Dec-07-09   24 
  RE: Utah quali...  elkhunterUT      Dec-07-09   26 
 RE: Utah quali...  HJB      Dec-07-09   25 
  RE: Utah quali...  yak4fish      Dec-07-09   27 
 RE: Utah quali...  hornhunter2...      Dec-07-09   28 
  RE: Utah quali...  JB148      Dec-07-09   29 
  RE: Utah quali...  elkantlers      Dec-07-09   30 
   RE: Utah quali...  Califelksla...      Dec-07-09   31 
    RE: Utah quali...  257Tony      Dec-08-09   32 
     RE: Utah quali...  birdbuster      Dec-08-09   33 
     RE: Utah quali...  piper      Dec-08-09   34 
   RE: Utah quali...  UT1031      Dec-08-09   35 
    RE: Utah quali...  OpeningDay      Dec-08-09   36 
     RE: Utah quali...  elkantlers      Dec-08-09   37 
      RE: Utah quali...  pig      Dec-08-09   38 
       RE: Utah quali...  logslinger      Dec-09-09   39 
        RE: Utah quali...  Big_uns      Dec-09-09   40 
        RE: Utah quali...  stinkystomp...      Dec-09-09   41 
         RE: Utah quali...  HJB      Dec-09-09   42 
         RE: Utah quali...  Big_uns      Dec-09-09   43 
          RE: Utah quali...  Ipkus      Dec-09-09   44 
           RE: Utah quali...  stinkystomp...      Dec-09-09   45 
            RE: Utah quali...  Muley_73      Dec-10-09   46 
             RE: Utah quali...  Hooner      Dec-10-09   47 
            RE: Utah quali...  Big_uns      Dec-10-09   48 
             RE: Utah quali...  elkhunterUT      Dec-10-09   49 
              RE: Utah quali...  ramtagless      Dec-10-09   50 
               RE: Utah quali...  stinkystomp...      Dec-10-09   51 
                RE: Utah quali...  bbgellerman      Dec-10-09   52 
                 RE: Utah quali...  muleyman      Dec-10-09   53 
                  RE: Utah quali...  carbonnation      Dec-10-09   54 
                   RE: Utah quali...  Muley_73      Dec-10-09   55 
                RE: Utah quali...  oakbrush      Dec-11-09   59 
            RE: Utah quali...  utwygirl      Dec-22-09   70 
            RE: Utah quali...  utwygirl      Dec-22-09   71 
             RE: Utah quali...  destroyer350      Dec-22-09   72 
          RE: Utah quali...  Big_uns      Dec-11-09   56 
           RE: Utah quali...  llamapacker      Dec-11-09   57 
            RE: Utah quali...  WapitiBob      Dec-11-09   58 
             RE: Utah quali...  NMPaul      Dec-11-09   60 
              RE: Utah quali...  piper      Dec-11-09   61 
              RE: Utah quali...  carbonnation      Dec-22-09   63 
 RE: Utah quali...  ViewfromAbo...      Dec-21-09   62 
  RE: Utah quali...  jims      Dec-22-09   64 
   RE: Utah quali...  grizzly      Dec-22-09   65 
   RE: Utah quali...  destroyer350      Dec-22-09   66 
    RE: Utah quali...  jims      Dec-22-09   67 
     RE: Utah quali...  utfireman      Dec-22-09   68 
      RE: Utah quali...  destroyer350      Dec-23-09   73 
     RE: Utah quali...  3X4      Dec-22-09   69 
      RE: Utah quali...  jims      Dec-23-09   74 

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marley
(1956 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
11:27 AM (MST)
1. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Two years ago a friend of mine drew the Manti archery tag after 7 or 8 years of applying. During his hunt guys were all over the mountain on horses making all kinds of noise and creating havoc all over the area he was hunting. When he went over to their camp to address the situation he found out that not a single one of the 12 guys had an archery tag but one of them had a rifle tag. He said they had every elk within a 5 square mile area ran out of there. He had a blind made by a water hole that he had scouted throughout the summer and had trail cameras set on. The day before the season started he went in to check his camera and it was stolen and human hair was sprinkled all the way around the water hole. He ended up not filling his tag. He tried to report them but he couldn't prove that they were purposely ruining his hunt but he knows full well that they were. This type of stuff pisses me off more than what you are talking about but I like your idea. The authorization thing would help with this as well.

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RamoneAlone
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Dec-06-09, 
12:28 PM (MST)
2. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

These LE permits are basically OIL permits for the most part.
So when somebody draws the permit they bring as many buddies as possible.
Think it was bad where you hunted stinky?
Try the Book Cliffs on opening day of rifle Buck season.
I agree,there was more than enough people already & then they added them Spike hunts,WAJ!
What'ya gonna do,tell the Moss Posse they'll have to cut the Posse by 85%?

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allaboutelk6
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Dec-06-09, 
12:35 PM (MST)
3. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Stinky is on point. I'm a Utard and sit on 14 LE Elk points and that very concern comes to my mind every Januray when apps are due. I say 5 people per tag and lets try it and see how it goes. The state is looking at new dates, seasons etc let throw some low impact regs out for the actual hunt? Nothing more frustrating than seeing more people than game. I also know for a fact that lots of people spotting actual makes the hunt harded. Game is more warey and espiecally elk.


*Remember it's all about elk baby!!!*

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Wes
(1132 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
12:47 PM (MST)
4. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Because I have just as much right to be on the forest or any other public land, whether I have a tag or not, as you or any one else has. Maybe a better idea would be to do away with hunting ASAP. Just get it over with, then hunters wouldn't have anything to complain about. Just keep pecking away till there's nothing left. Here's the best idea of them all, If you can stand people in the hills you can start by being the first person to set the example and stay out yourself
Wes

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stinkystomper
(0 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
01:08 PM (MST)
5. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Some states have seasons on shed hunting. Why? because our western half is becoming more populated than the wildlife can handle. We have to give them a break at some point and hunting season is no different. It seems like I see more and more spotted calves during the fall every year. I wonder why that is? Maybe it's because we are really screwing up the rut taking half the existing families in Utah hunting with us every fall. And actually Wes, you do have a very good point. I've decided to start this year. I will be staying out of the forests, and blm lands etc. When I go hunting now it will be a quality hunt. I realized after this last fall that North America will never be able to compete with the amount and quality of the free range hunting in Africa. So Wes, my hats off to you. You have an excellent idea. But for those of you who can't afford to really enjoy a quality hunt I highly suggest you think outside the box and adjust the rules to make it feel more like a hunt. I mean hey, who wants to hike 5 miles off the road only to find 50 guys on horse back? Definitely not me.

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wildarrow
(0 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
10:05 PM (MST)
19. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Get a horse, quit bitching. You really want to put more regs on our public land, and our god given rights?

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wildarrow
(0 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
10:10 PM (MST)
20. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Stinky, I don't remember it being a problem when you were trying to kill your bull this year, you invited everyone on MM to come on out to your camp?

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RamoneAlone
(0 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
01:16 PM (MST)
6. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Hey Wes?
You always this touchy?

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LESGO54
(2532 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
01:36 PM (MST)
7. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

OK, I GOT MY POPCORN LET THE WAR BEGIN

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ducksbucksandbulls
(399 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
02:05 PM (MST)
8. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Stinky,
You went scouting during archery season, And you want others to stay out during your hunt?
You can't have it both ways...

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Prism
(0 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
02:31 PM (MST)
9. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Are you serious?!

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mickeyelk
(1410 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
02:55 PM (MST)
10. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I've helped twice on LE elk hunts in Utah to find out that there is way too many non hunters out there. (Both times I was the only helper.) Various times we had bulls coming in and non hunters were right there besides us calling for no apparent reasons but just to call and maybe practice. We approached one group that kepted running in on us and they said they were out to have fun and enjoy the wildlife. It seemed that no matter where you went there was someone there to call or block you out of an area. We were camped close to one camp that had one hunter and 7 trailers with horses and plenty of quads. I believe there was 23 people to help the one. He got his the first day, they rest played for the next 4 days in the mountains, calling and running the quads everywhere. I don't mind quads but keep them to the trails not make new ones. Two of these guys rode out to meet us one day where I knew there was no trails to ride. I asked where the trail was and the said the made there own. I don't normally complain about hunters and non hunters enjoying the outdoors but have respect for the people that really have the tags. My 2 cents!!!

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one_dryboot
(4701 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
04:08 PM (MST)
11. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I agree less pressure would be better. If you hunt a less popular unit you wont have as big of a problem. And when I draw my tag all are welcome in my camp. just like they were when you hunted dutton.

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NVBighorn
(9303 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
04:37 PM (MST)
12. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

"Oho!' said the pot to the kettle;
"You are dirty and ugly and black!
Sure no one would think you were metal,
Except when you're given a crack."

"Not so! not so! kettle said to the pot;
"'Tis your own dirty image you see;
For I am so clean -without blemish or blot-
That your blackness is mirrored in me"

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eelgrass
(23252 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
05:35 PM (MST)
13. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Some limit needs to be imposed, if not legally then ethically. I would feel very uncomfortable wandering around looking for elk without a tag while others are hunting. I'll cook, tidy up camp, help pack meat,etc. I'll even drop you off somewhere or pick you up. You hunt, it's your tag. Same deal if I have the tag, OIL or not.

Eel

Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.

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slamdunk
(6786 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
06:44 PM (MST)
14. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-09 AT 06:47 PM (MST)

Although i do like your thoughts and idea Stinky, but we tried to shut the northern region mountains down during the late winter to keep shed hunters from pressuring the animals during their most vulnerable time. But it didn't work because ALL groups use the public forest lands, not just hunting enthusiests. You'd have the same issue during LE hunts.
Example-
A stream fisherman would pitch a fit if he coulnd't get off the road to fish his favorite stream because there was a hunt taking place that he didn't care about.

Is this your example Stinkbug? Lol
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID12/11639.html

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huntingjlc
(146 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
06:54 PM (MST)
15. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I think what slam said is more right than some others. Yes it would nice to have it all to ourselves, but there is more hunts going on than just the elk hunt. The grouse hunt is going on in most units. Plus the fishing. Also in Sevier and Piute counties, the atv jamboree is going on during the archery elk.

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shotgunjim
(935 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
07:12 PM (MST)
16. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Stinky, what you experienced on your Utah hunt is simply, Utards being Utards. Just one of many reasons why all the surrounding states hate Utah "sportsmen". Although I agree with you, I see no way anyone can limit the number people a hunter can bring with them.

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Muley_73
(2242 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
08:28 PM (MST)
17. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I can understand being frustrated with others interfearing in a hunt I would never want limit the number of friends and family that enjoy a hunt with me.

Stinky if you like the limited numbers allowed on the WSMR and private ranches in NM you should hunt private in Utah. Lots of landowner tags to purchase if that is what you like.

Maybe I am not as sensivite to this because I am a Utard? Then again maybe I am not as sensivite because I'm not taking those SPECIAL pictures that Stinky likes to take!

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Coyote_chaser
(816 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
09:49 PM (MST)
18. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I had the dutton archery hunt two years ago, I saw almost no one the entire hunt till the last three days of the hunt. Then there were dudes EVERYWHERE. I passed a guy with his dog running around and him walking up a canyon at perfect hunting hours, said he was scouting for his hunt. Dudes bugling from every road and canyon rim. Guys walking in on wallows while I was sitting on them. I know its public land, but it can get frustrating.

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stinkystomper
(0 posts)
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Dec-06-09, 
11:15 PM (MST)
21. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I believe someone may have mis understood my original post. The wsmr and the valles caldera are both "NOT" private ranches. I have never killed a bull on a private ranch. All my kills have been on public grounds. What you may be confusing is the valles caldera. Formerly know as the Baca ranch. This is where doyle moss, I believe, started his guiding business. The us government, your tax dollars, bought the Baca ranch about 10 years ago for $100 million. Now it is on a lottery system. You go to their website and purchase up to 20 tickets per hunt code for an elk. If you draw you are only allowed to take 2 guests. This is one of the few places I can honestly say I saw a bull behind every tree. The rut was phenomianl and the experience was second to none. What I am applying is this. Why cant we as sportsmen strive to have at least one such place in every state. That would help cater to trophy hunters and to the sportsmen just wanting the hunt of a lifetime. No, the valles caldera doesn't have 400 inch bulls and never will but the 350 bulls you might take on there equate to an experience of a lifetime. If you people in Utah had at least one opportunity to experience such a hunt I think a lot of folks might have a change of heart.

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Muley_73
(2242 posts)
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Dec-07-09, 
01:30 AM (MST)
22. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Stinky,
I stand corrected on the NM units. However there are a ton of these units in Utah already. They are the CWMU units. The odds are actually better on alot of these units then they are for the more premium units in Utah. Yes they are private and some other restrictions apply, like when you can hunt. Alot are very good to work with and can be great hunts. I have hunted several CWMU units for both deer and elk. The experience varys and I would recommend you gather information on each before applying. I know these hunts can only be drawn by resident hunters, but like I stated above there are more than enough landowner tags available!

You are correct that is was nice to not have pressure from other hunters, but I still would never push to limit the number allowed on a public land hunt. You have to remeber that it is Utah and alot of families are going to have more than 5 childern that would like to help Dad or Grandpa on that once in a life time hunt. When my Dad drew a Pauns tag at the expo this year my boys and myself automatically just put in for points in Utah because we wanted to be there with him rather than hunting on our own. So did my other brothers.

I think what you are looking for is some hunter etiquette. If a major hunt is going on don't be clown and mess up someones hunt! That will always be a problem when you deal with public land. Man I am sure glad you did not have an archery tag during the ATV Jamboree, what a mess, but you know what they have every right to the mountain as the hunters!

I hope this does not cause you to look elsewhere to buy tags, us Utards like your money if nothing else.

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scoutdog5
(0 posts)
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Dec-07-09, 
01:46 AM (MST)
23. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Have not had the opportunity to experience Utah LE elk hunting yet, although i hope to. I know Wyoming imposes limits on their hunter management areas. Most allow one non-hunting companion per tag holder. As I recall, cannot even drive on the roads inside the boundary without the proper permit.
Seems to me Colorado did some of that as well on their State Wildlife areas but could be wrong.

I don't see any way to regulate access or usage levels on Federal land. I have also cut way back on the amount of time I spend hiking in areas i hunt, mostly because the high numbers of people spending time on public land throughout the year pushes most of the elk onto private land. Figured it was pretty stupid to contribute to that when I hoped to have an elk tag that fall. Sure miss finding those big herds in the summer, though.

Some very interesting research is being done on how harassment negatively impacts the productivity of an elk herd. One four year study done on four separate elk herds in Utah concluded that the harassment factor of wolves on those herds was a far more serious problem than the actual predation level, and wws the primary cause of cow/calf ratios that have consistently been below 20 calves/100 cows since wolves were reintroduced. I would guess that excessive harassment by humans likely could cause the same result.

Scoutdog

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dillon
(1343 posts)
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Dec-07-09, 
08:45 AM (MST)
24. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I have yet to get a LE elk tag in Utah, but I know that when I do I will have about six guys and my wife in my camp. You see hunting is more than just getting the big buck or big bull. It is also a great opportunity for family to be together, and spend some quality time in the mountains. I do agree that some guys go way overboard and have 20+ people with them, which just seems a whole lot like sheep herding to me. I am going to get my tag in 20 years or so, so by then somethings will have to change; but the fact that my family will be with me will not change. This is Utah, not NM or any other state. I personally love to go out when possible during the rut and see if I can get a picture or two of a big bull with my Cannon XTi. If Utah makes a rule that people can't be on the forest I will pretend to be a tree hugger for the day, and if they try to fine me I will fight the battle and win, but I doubt it will happen in Utah.

Dillon

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elkhunterUT
(946 posts)
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Dec-07-09, 
12:37 PM (MST)
26. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

This is funny stuff Stinky- it is already nearly impossible for CO's, forest service, etc to enforce the laws that are already currently on the books, how in the HE!! would they ever enforce this idea?


It would be nice to be able to control pressure to some extent, but it seems to be a pipe dream on public, National Forest lands. I always hear guys on MM say that bowhunters are whiners, but I think they are the only ones that have a legitimate beef when it comes to this topic of hunting pressure/quality of hunt. What Stinky and others have experienced in Utah with hunter pressure is multiplied (especially this past year with the spike hunts on all units) many times over for the bowhunters who draw LE elk tags. They deal with all of the general archery deer and elk hunters hunting at the same time as their hunt, plus all the non-hunting public (ATVers, campers, hikers, etc)recreating more heavily at the time of the year when the bowhunt occurs due to better weather. Not to mention all the guys out and about scouting for their upcoming rifle LE elk hunts (which they have to themselves during the hunt). I have helped on 3 LE archery elk hunts (2 for my brother and 1 for my Dad) and hunted myself on a LE rifle elk hunt on my own tag. There was a night and day difference in the craziness and pressure seen on the archery hunts versus my rifle hunt.


The bowhunters get screwed in this regard in Utah and I am glad that the DWR is considering giving them their own dedicated timeframe to hunt - it is long overdue!!!

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HJB
(1563 posts)
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Dec-07-09, 
12:31 PM (MST)
25. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

So basically you want to shut down the National forest so that only "Elk hunters" can be there?????????????? That is the gayest thing I have heard in a while. Do you realize that there are hikers, campers, fisherman, atv riders, Grouse hunters, bird watchers, photographers, shed hunters, deer hunters, small game hunters, and many many more people that have every right to be there in September as the guy who draws an "Elk Tag"???
I agree that Utah gets a lot of pressure, but you can't take the average guys rights away because you want to be in the woods alone for an elk hunt. These lands and animals belong to everybody and everybody has the right to enjoy NF whenever they want. I'm sorry but that's a really stupid suggestion.

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yak4fish
(196 posts)
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Dec-07-09, 
02:10 PM (MST)
27. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

My brother had a tag for the same unit as Stinky and I witnessed the circus (with every circus comes a lot of clowns). It was just my brother and myself and yes I was out looking for elk to help him out. There were 57 tags issued for the early season and that unit should swallow 57 hunters and 1 or 2 helpers easily so there should be plenty of room out there. What I saw was people on every ridge and overlook multiple vehicles at every turnout every flat spot had a camp with trailers tents multiple trucks. There had to be over 500 people on that mountain with 57 tags issued. It was so bad I don't think I will be using my elk points to hunt there even though I love to hunt it.
Here's some food for thought. I hunted this same unit with my son for cow elk over Thanksgiving week 175 tags issued. There were three camps opening weekeend in the same canyon that had a dozen for my brothers hunt.We saw two other people in the field the whole week and they were just out horseback/shed hunting riding not hunting elk. We did see other hunters along the road they were all nice and willing to share info. on the hunting.
A much more relaxed hunt with less pressure on the 175 tags hunt than the one with 57 tags.
Maybe the answers to issue three times the tags to releive the pressure? So people could hunt with a tag of there own more often the every 15 years or more.
Is this the only LE elk unit to have this pressure problem?
I hope so I think I will put in for Fishlake rather than Dutton this year.

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hornhunter247
(0 posts)
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Dec-07-09, 
03:56 PM (MST)
28. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

wow sounds like p.e.t.a. should just back out of utah! instead of spoons and pans just give an elk tag and a bunch of calls! lmao its official im out of the points race in utah! take my money elsewhere!

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JB148
(0 posts)
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Dec-07-09, 
05:34 PM (MST)
29. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

As a non-res hoping to draw soon I find this post rather interesting. If the state or feds wanted to restrict access to public land they can period. I'm certain they don't want to upset Wes too much. I am a true believer in the Constitution, but give me a break, let the tag holders hunt in relative peace. If you are a true hunter you want the wintering areas closed to access.If I draw Utah or Nevada I will probably be going solo.IMHO

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elkantlers
(2208 posts)
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Dec-07-09, 
05:53 PM (MST)
30. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I have 16 Elk points that I am going to spend in the next couple of years. Anyone that wants to come along is invited. Friends and family is what hunting is all about.

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Califelkslayer
(4111 posts)
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Dec-07-09, 
11:41 PM (MST)
31. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Never been on the Dutton but from my Nevada experience, the scouting and my helpers (2) looked for elk from roads anywheres from a mile to 5 miles away. Wouldn't have made much sense to bump elk and then tell me about it back at camp IMO. Found the best bull of the hunt from 2 miles away and studied him from almost 2 miles AM and PM.

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257Tony
(3705 posts)
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Dec-08-09, 
08:17 AM (MST)
32. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"


I vote that they should leave the forests open to anybody, and everybody! That is, until I get my LE ELk tag, then they should change them for that year, and that year alone. Sound about right?

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birdbuster
(0 posts)
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Dec-08-09, 
08:29 AM (MST)
33. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I drew my OIL elk tag last year. I had one person with me for 2 days(who actually stayed with me for the most part.) and then spent 5 days alone. I spent 2 days trying to find a place to hunt that wasn't overrun. I actually got 2 days of quality hunting but I was in a totally new area and ended up eating my tag. I'm in my 50's so I'll never get a tag again. I was so disgusted with the whole experience I've sold my big-game equipment. I'm not going to fight crowds for small animals so you all have one less person to worry about.

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piper
(5086 posts)
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Dec-08-09, 
08:38 AM (MST)
34. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

This is a interesting post, and brings up some sad truths, Too many people wanting what they hear and see from friends, a fabled 400 point bull. there is only a limited amount of habitat and an ever increasing population with ever increasing technology and information and desire. after seeing what changes the last couple decades have brought, I wonder what the next will bring to the world of western big game hunting? maybe it will become such a joke that many will lose interest and pursue other interests, it will become sort of self regulating. I don't know, but it does make me miss my past hunting adventures.

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UT1031
(223 posts)
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Dec-08-09, 
11:07 AM (MST)
35. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I will draw an archery LE tag in the next couple of years and based on what I saw this year. I am STOKED! I spent a total of 8 days on the Wasatch unit helping friends with their cow/spike tags ans spent the last three days helping a fellow archer(shom I had never met) with his LE tag. In those three days, we only saw three other people. I am a firm believer that if you dive in off the trail, you have the drainage to yourself. I do believe that you should never hunt solo as too many things can/will go bad(safety first). I spent two nights with one of Stinky's guides(utfireman). I will never forget the evening firetalk! Good luck to all, but I for one and STOKED!!!!!
Kelly

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OpeningDay
(458 posts)
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Dec-08-09, 
03:11 PM (MST)
36. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I think the pressure is pretty bad on pretty much every unit. I was in the Book Cliffs (Roadless) unit this year helping out. I believe there are about 40 tags for the unit. At one of the 3 trail heads we counted 77 trucks. Assuming that each truck has at least 1 passenger that is a whole lot of people for 40 tags. Keep in mind, thats just one trail head. I am sure the other trail heads were filled up with trucks also.

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elkantlers
(2208 posts)
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Dec-08-09, 
04:09 PM (MST)
37. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I have never been on the bookcliffs but I would think that if it is the roadless unit that there would be a limited amount of access points and that there would be quite a few outfits at each parking area. 77 trucks does seem high though.

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pig
(33 posts)
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Dec-08-09, 
05:50 PM (MST)
38. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

"JUST HUNT!" or you can go to wy. and pay big bucks to hunt wilderness public land w/ a guide. Want to get away from people buy a good pair of leather boots and walk a long way from roads where the lazy with a tons of freinds won't go. Big blisters wont kill you.

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logslinger
(507 posts)
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Dec-09-09, 
07:40 AM (MST)
39. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Stinky I brought this same subject up on another site and said shouldn't LE stand for something. I was also crucified like you will be. So I have changed my mind. The next door neighbors kid is a boyscout and his troup will be going with me on my LE hunt. All 150 of the little boogers are going to get a compass and a walkie. The parents will be encouraged to bring any horse, ATV, little red wagon, or anything else they have to get around. We will set a camp that rivals any civil war re-enactment. You know these kids are like my family and don't tell me I shouldn't bring every member of my family with me. I sure hope all the noise doesn't hurt someone else's hunt but hey it's a me first would we live in and you know who comes first.

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Big_uns
(0 posts)
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Dec-09-09, 
08:52 AM (MST)
40. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I think this topic has more to do with certain "PREMIUM" units in UTAH than others!!! I was hunting on the Manti ML hunt this year and the particular area I was hunting had hardly anyone in it!!(yet issues the most tags) I was about 4.25 miles off the beaten path and I saw one other person elk hunting and three deer hunters!! Now I realize that if there was a 400 inch bull with us we would not have been by ourselves, but moral is........there are places that you can find seclusion in them there woods!! So, closing the forests are just plain and simply unrealistic.

I believe we (utah) have created a problem unforseen when managing for trophy elk, and this is a huge problem!!! But, the state needs the dollars so it will continue to do what it has set out to do....make big bulls worth lots of money!!!

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stinkystomper
(0 posts)
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Dec-09-09, 
08:57 AM (MST)
41. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Logslinger rules! period. Finally someone who can enjoy sarcasim. That was the best laugh I've had in a long time. What kills me about most people on here is their inability to read the underlying meaning of this post. Do I care if you take 20 people with you? No! Should you? Yes! What you do with those 20 people is a whole other story! I totally agree with everyone wanting to be with their family members on their hunt.

Read that line one more time.

"I totally agree with everyone wanting to BE WITH their family members on their hunt."

Notice how BE WITH is capitalized. That means you know the meaning of what a hunt should be. Its an experience to be shared with all your friends and family that care about sharing your life with you.

How is tromping off in another direction to screw up someone elses hunt an experience of sharing in your friends memories. Why not just stay home and let him tell you about the hunt later since you won't be with him for the kill anyways.

My beef is with the people who just go plowing out across the mountain to simply see elk. Heck, if my father and wife could hike like I do I would have loved to have them their by my side along with many more from my family. I totally agree with sharing the hunt with as many friends as possible. What the varying opinions on this thread are not getting is that most of these so called helpers are doing anything but helping.

On the other side of the coin how about those fishermen and hikers?

Honestly, how many hikers are out and about during the off hunting parts of the year? How bout fishermen? how many are spooking elk after elk? Not many. Why because there aren't lakes and streams in every canyon in many units. So for the most part I think I've proven that most of the problem lies with the people who take the entire 82nd airborn with them elk hunting with orders that once you hit the ground to have fun.

As far as hikers goes yes the wasatch is gonna eat your lunch as well as other units but all the rest would provide on heck of a hunt.

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HJB
(1563 posts)
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Dec-09-09, 
09:28 AM (MST)
42. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-09 AT 09:28 AM (MST)

How about the ATV jamboree that is scheduled for september every year on the Pahvant? How about all those grouse hunters out in the pines blasting away on many units? How about guys hunting the Muzzy deer hunt in September? Do they need to be punished for being there during the "Elk Hunt"???

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Big_uns
(0 posts)
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Dec-09-09, 
09:40 AM (MST)
43. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Stinky,
I think what you are saying about pressure comes more from the "BIG" guides and outfitters of the state, rather hunters family and friends!! Agreed, fishermen and such will not put pressure on an elk, unless the fisherman is fishing in a WALLOW. But even just the way hunting has progressed in UTAH is plainly because of money!! He who has it makes the rules!! If I had millions I could hire the guides and "SPOTTERS" that some of these guys have as well. But, instead I will still go up the mountain with my 13 friends and enjoy everything there is to enjoy about our wilderness, our camp, our company (on our ANY bull units) year in and year out. Because I STILL can!!

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Ipkus
(0 posts)
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Dec-09-09, 
11:29 AM (MST)
44. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Ya'll do realize you're making your giant bulls look much smaller when you have to squeeze the whole 26 member 'team' in the photo, right?

Wife - "Oh look honey, it's the xxxxxx family reunion photo. They went with a camoflauge motif this year! Who's dog is that in front?"

Husband - "No dear, that is a picture of xxx's elk"

I don't care either way, as long as the 'posse' concept stays in Utah...

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stinkystomper
(0 posts)
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Dec-09-09, 
09:20 PM (MST)
45. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

IPKUS............AMEN to that brutha! Lets pray that the water doesn't cross contaminate other states water supplies and we continue to enjoy normal hunting seasons. I'm still trying to figure out the mindset of some of those people. My conclusion? I'm still dumbfounded and baffled. I guess its a mormon thing or something, just not sure yet. Somethin to do with 14 kids or somethin I guess.

Imagine a non resident such as myself going to hunt in Utah. Me, like all western states hunters (excluding utards), are used to the typical camp of a tag and a couple of buddies. You go to Utah thinking cool, a big arse area and only 57 tags. This will be a stellar hunt. To your suprise you wake up opening morning to the mass migration. It appears that the census bureau puts up migration signs along the route of every city who had a hunter draw an LE tag. Why? because the whole freakin town is going hunting with that one guy. Talk about jaw on the floor. I'm sitting back thinking to myself, holy crap its hillbilly he!! WTH? I'm just completely baffled trying to figure out what the logic is in all those people. I guess I will never know.

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Muley_73
(2242 posts)
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Dec-10-09, 
03:37 AM (MST)
46. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Stinky,
You crack me up. You come to Utah and have an unbelievable hunt, you shoot a monster bull. You gain all the attention that you thrive on with your MM cheer team. You then go home and can't help yourself. You come here and boob about what was not right on your hunt. You will be back in Feb to spend time in a place that seems to baffle you? The Utards that flock the hills and make your hunt not as fun are the same Utards that have agreed to keep tag numbers down so you can shoot big bulls. You then have very little good to say about anybody other than the people that helped you on your hunts. So while "those people" baffle you, those same people would probably read your post and feel sorry for an indivual that is never statisfied. You see they probably have good memorys of this seasons elk hunt on the Dutton even if they were just a spotter or packer for a friend or family member. I am sure I misunderstood what you ment by your post, as that seems to always be your out. But it does take clowns to make the circus complete, so I guess its better that you to be back.

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Hooner
(0 posts)
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Dec-10-09, 
09:52 AM (MST)
47. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Stinky,
This is hilarious. You payed people to be on the unit all year. Then all summer long you posted on MM how big of a bull you were going to kill and that the Dutton was the greatest unit of all time. That you would be able to get away from all of the people and pressure. Then you preached to all of us how great of a hunter you were.
Then when someone would post informing you that the Dutton was not easy and that there are spotters/sheep/campers/hunters/scouters etc. everywhere you and your little blogging friends would tear them apart. I am really enjoying this right now. Can I pass you and you a tissue?

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Big_uns
(0 posts)
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Dec-10-09, 
11:44 AM (MST)
48. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-09 AT 11:46 AM (MST)

WWWOOOOWWWWW!!! Now you are being sarcastic I hope!!!
UNBELIEVABLE STINKY

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elkhunterUT
(946 posts)
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Dec-10-09, 
12:00 PM (MST)
49. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Stinky,

Wow dude-you are even funnier than I originally thought. You spend all summer here on MonsterMuleys on your 4000 thread post bringing all kinds of hype and attention to the Dutton unit and now you are back here b!tching about how much pressure you experienced. Seems to me like you yourself may have caused some of that unwanted pressure with the hype. Pretty ironic, or is it moronic? Not sure.

I got some advice for ya - if you don't like how things are done in Utah, don't come back. It is a choice

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ramtagless
(848 posts)
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Dec-10-09, 
01:38 PM (MST)
50. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Welcome back Stinky.

So - you won't be buying anymore UT tags?

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stinkystomper
(0 posts)
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Dec-10-09, 
05:53 PM (MST)
51. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Will I buy a Utah tag ever again? ROFDL! I never lie so I will have to ignore that question. Lets just say this post is serving its purpose well. Most of you Utah guys are really dumber than I had hoped for. Just keep the negativity coming. You guys are awesome. Anyone on here a national merit scholar semifinalist (aka a smart person) that's been keeping up with my posts? If so, you care to inform them why I post like I do on MM? I will say some posts are to get a rise out of people but I seriously thought you people would have caught on to me by now. I thought about keeping this post going for a few more months but its time to let it all die. You guys have fun hunting in the future and have a merry christmas and a happy new year and good luck to you all in your hunting endeavors next year.

Stinkystomper out.......... and to save TK the typing "Good riddence" lol

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bbgellerman
(0 posts)
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Dec-10-09, 
06:47 PM (MST)
52. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

What a douche.

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muleyman
(1621 posts)
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Dec-10-09, 
07:45 PM (MST)
53. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

totally a looser...''muleyman

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carbonnation
(301 posts)
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Dec-10-09, 
08:19 PM (MST)
54. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

How much did stinky pay for his tag? Didn't he try to hire spotters that bailed on him?
I guess when you cough up the dough and it doesn't work out, you focus on the negative......Very sad.

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Muley_73
(2242 posts)
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Dec-10-09, 
10:16 PM (MST)
55. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Sending a big chunk of money to someone you barley know sounds smart to me?

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oakbrush
(422 posts)
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Dec-11-09, 
04:43 PM (MST)
59. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

You think this is how he got his username?

Can't believe he fell for that old trick.

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utwygirl
(0 posts)
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Dec-22-09, 
08:07 PM (MST)
70. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

At least we are willing to take our 14 kids out hunting with us instead of picking one and saying, "It's your turn this time." I believe the problem that you have with the "utard mormons" are the large guides and outfitters that are in the premium units looking for the 400" elk or the 230" deer. The rest of us are just trying to enjoy maybe they only vacation that our family may see for a few years. My dad drew a great LE elk hunt this year in San Juan, and I will admit, we had a huge camp. Our entire family was there, but it was because it was our only time to be together and enjoy what we love to do. I understand that it is frustrating when you see 50 people chasing after 1 deer, but dont categorize "utard mormons" as the cause of the problem.

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utwygirl
(0 posts)
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Dec-22-09, 
08:19 PM (MST)
71. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

At least we are willing to take our 14 kids out hunting with us instead of picking one and saying, "It's your turn this time." I believe the problem that you have with the "utard mormons" are the large guides and outfitters that are in the premium units looking for the 400" elk or the 230" deer. The rest of us are just trying to enjoy maybe they only vacation that our family may see for a few years. My dad drew a great LE elk hunt this year in San Juan, and I will admit, we had a huge camp. Our entire family was there, but it was because it was our only time to be together and enjoy what we love to do. I understand that it is frustrating when you see 50 people chasing after 1 deer, but dont categorize "utard mormons" as the cause of the problem.

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destroyer350
(484 posts)
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Dec-22-09, 
08:53 PM (MST)
72. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-09 AT 08:56 PM (MST)

>At least we are willing to
>take our 14 kids out
>hunting with us instead of
>picking one and saying, "It's
>your turn this time." I
>believe the problem that you
>have with the "utard mormons"
>are the large guides and
>outfitters that are in the
>premium units looking for the
>400" elk or the 230"
>deer. The rest of us
>are just trying to enjoy
>maybe they only vacation that
>our family may see for
>a few years. My dad
>drew a great LE elk
>hunt this year in San
>Juan, and I will admit,
>we had a huge camp.
>Our entire family was there,
>but it was because it
>was our only time to
>be together and enjoy what
>we love to do. I
>understand that it is frustrating
>when you see 50 people
>chasing after 1 deer, but
>dont categorize "utard mormons" as
>the cause of the problem.
>

I don't believe you can claim innocence and say outfitters and guides are the only problem, if you're part of the problem, you ARE part of the problem!

How big was the bull your 50 was chasing?

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Big_uns
(0 posts)
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Dec-11-09, 
07:57 AM (MST)
56. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-09 AT 07:58 AM (MST)

I have no idea why the above "post" posted twice......Maybe it is because I am from UTAH!!! wierd lol

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llamapacker
(911 posts)
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Dec-11-09, 
12:26 PM (MST)
57. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

The whole idea of "posse" hunting is a uniquely Utahn concept. I must say I am glad it hasn't spread to surrounding states. Apparently living here for "only" 15 years isn't long enough for me to understand this mentality. While I see little interest in the state regulating this type of activity, it is nice to fantacize about the effects it would have on the overall hunting expereince.
Flame on...
Bill

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WapitiBob
(4475 posts)
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Dec-11-09, 
01:32 PM (MST)
58. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

Seems nobody has a problem with it unless the posse gets paid.

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NMPaul
(7745 posts)
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Dec-11-09, 
05:06 PM (MST)
60. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I have 10 utah elk points (i realize it is a long shot to draw in the next 10 years), but, now after reading this I wonder if I really want to drive all the way there for that type of experience.

That doesnt sound to fun. Is the San Juan as bad since it is a larger area??

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piper
(5086 posts)
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Dec-11-09, 
07:00 PM (MST)
61. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

There is plenty of posse hunting going on in northern Nevada also, I remember seeing a picture of the chairman of the Nevada game commissioners, it was at least 20 years ago, he was holding a desert bighorn and was completely surrounded by people, mostly guides. They pound everything to death and can't figure why the really big bulls in Utah are becoming scarce.

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carbonnation
(301 posts)
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Dec-22-09, 
10:16 AM (MST)
63. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

NMPaul,

I hunted San Juan on the Muzzle hunt this year. I didn't have any problems with non-hunters harassing the elk. Half of the unit is open to ML deer hunters as well, so they can pose a little bit of a problem, but there are so many bulls, that they really didn't bother me.
I had family with me, half of which were deer hunting. If you only have one person helping you on the San Juan, you will not beable to compete with those guides and outfitters. Most of them live near the area and scout year round. On top of that, they will usually have 2-5 hunters in camp and 2-4 guides/ spotters per hunter. They know where most of the good bulls are long before you will show up and have the numbers to keep tabs on them. Having the mountain to ourselves is a pipe dream no matter where you hunt.
Let's keep in mind people, that this is a public land hunt...not private. Every single person on that mountain has just as much right to be there as you do. Your tag is not a golden ticket. It is an opportunity, make the most of it. Even with all of the extra people on the mountain, Utah is still providing a world class hunting experience and a chance for a bull of a lifetime. We don't need anymore laws to restrict our access to any pulblic lands, hunting or otherwise.

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ViewfromAbove
(0 posts)
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Dec-21-09, 
09:34 PM (MST)
62. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I hunted the Dutton during the rifle hunt and was very suprised and disappointed to see all of the non-hunter helpers. I had 1 buddy there helping me out and we couldn't believe all of the guys not hunting, wearing orange and harassing the elk. It definatly took away from the quality of the hunt.

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jims
(1953 posts)
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Dec-22-09, 
11:23 AM (MST)
64. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I hadn't really followed this post until today. I think Hooner's comments hit the hammer on the head! I was one of the guys StinkyStomper and his cronies got on...big time! Now it sounds like he might believe some of the things I told him prior to his hunt! I have a couple tears to jerk for him as well! How many guys were on your hunt or helped you out with advice?

I got pretty frustrated on my LE hunt with all the "helpers and spotters" but don't think there is any way to get around it? What was even more frustrating was guys with radios conversing back and forth...which as far as I'm concerned is not fair chase and should be outlawed in Utah! I don't blame them for doing this if it is legal.

One thing....with all the helpers and spotters running rampant you would think the smart ole bulls would figure things out in a hurry and go hole up somewhere! Unfortunately most of the bulls don't have their senses during the rut and a number of them get whacked! Take the dad-gum rifle hunt out of the rut and there likely would be more mature bulls make it through another year!

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grizzly
(3310 posts)
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Dec-22-09, 
02:12 PM (MST)
65. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-09 AT 02:14 PM (MST)

I have really enjoyed the lack of drama around here the last couple weeks.

Can't we talk hunting without all the bull$hit nitpicking?

Grizzly

Clarification: some of you have valid points and well-thought-out concerns. Others are just trying to cause contention...Grow Up!

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destroyer350
(484 posts)
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Dec-22-09, 
02:45 PM (MST)
66. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"


>
>
Unfortunately most
>of the bulls don't have
>their senses during the rut
>and a number of them
>get whacked! Take the
>dad-gum rifle hunt out of
>the rut and there likely
>would be more mature bulls
>make it through another year!
>
Finally someone with some common sense! I would have been a little more forceful than "dad-gum" though!

Will B&C or P&Y take entries into their books if a radio is used in the harvesting of an animal? Pretty lame way of harvest!!!!

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jims
(1953 posts)
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Dec-22-09, 
05:30 PM (MST)
67. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

I am pretty sure radios aren't honored in a "fair chase" harvest by P&Y or B&C...but how many record class bucks and bulls do you think radios have been used? Possibly even used by a few well know guides and outfitters?

I crawled down into several deep, dark hell holes on my hunt and when I heard radios blasting from above...it wasn't exactly a prestine experience! I don't blame guys for carrying a radio and gps for the purpose of safety but when spotters are constantly relaying exact coordinates of elk that doesn't seem right? 5 to 15 spotters on radios can kind of be distracting and a definite advantage over 1 hunter and 1 weapon!

Utah likely won't be able to limit spotters but it certainly would be great to get rid of the "dad gum" radios. What ever happened to the good ole days of trading notes by the fire at the end of the day?

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utfireman
(259 posts)
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Dec-22-09, 
07:01 PM (MST)
68. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

It's called evolution, and that's about the only hunting tradition that you can really count on.

After all, those hunter's who have failed to evolve are now dead, or they picked up gardening!!

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destroyer350
(484 posts)
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Dec-23-09, 
09:53 AM (MST)
73. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-09 AT 10:11 AM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-09 AT 09:57 AM (MST)


So you're saying we should all evolve to the point there's nothing left to hunt, then we can all become vegetarians?
Evolution has very little to do with modern day hunting, can we even call it hunting?

I don't know about mossbacks ethics but I do know if you go up on the mountain and punch the roam button on your radio you will be entertained most of the day by your common everyday Joe talking one of their buddies into game!

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3X4
(0 posts)
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Dec-22-09, 
07:15 PM (MST)
69. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

>I am pretty sure radios aren't
>honored in a "fair chase"
>harvest by P&Y or B&C...but
>how many record class bucks
>and bulls do you think
>radios have been used?
>Possibly even used by a
>few well know guides and
>outfitters?

You can say mossback.


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jims
(1953 posts)
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Dec-23-09, 
09:41 PM (MST)
74. "RE: Utah quality hunt posibilities?"

LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-09 AT 09:41 PM (MST)

I'm not a squealer so will stay out of that one!

It kind of makes a guy wonder how many giant bucks and bulls would still be roaming the hills if it weren't for 2 way radios?

Pretty soon a guide or "spotter" may be able to sit home at his computer...zoom in on an area via satelite...and give his hunter/partner coordinates of the exact location of a super buck or bull he has located! I'm sure the military guys can practically do this..as we speak?

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