what rifle to get for long range?

D

Dugandeer

Guest
Ok I am at a stand still on which caliber to get. I like the 300 ultra mag and the 7mm ultra mag. I just don't want to get the wrong caliber. I will use it for elk, mule deer, and bear. At time i may be shooting at long range. just looking for some opinions on these 2 calibers and some more posibilities.

thanks for any information
 
flip a coin

JB

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
--Benjamin Franklin 1759
 
i have a 7mm rem mag. and can consistently make shots out to 600 and even 700 yards, i use it for muleys, whiteys, elk, and moose. i find that it does a great job for all of these animals at close or long range
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-06 AT 00:09AM (MST)[p]If you want to use lighter bullets go with the 7mm. If you want to go with heavy bullets of say 200 grains and up, go with the 300. How much recoil can you take? That would be something to consider. IF you want less recoil get the 7mm and use lighter weight bullets, don't want to go too light for elk and moose but if you use a premium bullet like a Barnes TSX you could get by with a 160. The heavy-for-caliber bullets are going to have the better ballistic coefficients which you want for long range shooting. Which means minimum 160 grain in 7mm and I'd go with a 200 in the 300 Ultra Mag.
 
THANKS YOU GUYS FOR SOME INFO. BOB I DON'T REALLY HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT RECOIL. I AM 6FT 5N 325 RECOIL IS NOT A ISSUE. AS FAR AS NRG AND KNOCK DOWN POWER GOES I AM NOT SURE. A FREIND OF MIN HAS A 300RUM AND I WATCHED HIM SHOOT A 300 PLUS LB BLACK BEAR AT OVER 600 YARDS SO I KNOW IT HAS THE KNOCK DOWN BUT IF I AM SHOOTING A MULEDEER OR EVEN A WHITETAIL WHAT IS THAT GOING TO DO TO THE TABLE FAIR. WITH THE .284 SIZE BULLET IS THERE MUCH DIFFERENCE AS FAR AS LOOSEING MEAT. I AM GOING TO BE RELOADING MY OWN SO I GESS WHAT EVER I GO WITH I CAN DOWNSIZE THE BULLET FOR LESS DESTRUCTION. I SHOOT A 7MM MAG NOW BUT I CAN'T GET IT UNDER A INCH AT 100 YDS. I HAVE CHANGED LOADS AND BULLETS AND IT SEEMS TO LIKE THE ACCUBONDS THE BEST. I JUST GOT SOME POWERPOINT PLUS BULLETS THAT I SHOT WHEN I WAS USING FACTORY AMMO. THEY GROUPED BETTER THAN THE ACCUBONDS FACTORY LOADED. ANY WAY THANKS FOR THE INFO.

DUGAN
 
JUDAS PRIEST!!!

REMIND ME NOT TO SCREW WITH THIS GUY!!!

AT YOUR SIZE YOU JUST MIGHT CONSIDER A .50!!!

JUST STICK IT UP TO YOUR SHOULDER & PACK IT LIKE A REGULAR RIFLE,AT 6'5" YOU WON'T NEED A POD,LOL!!!

THE ONLY bobcat SUGGESTING:THE BIGGER THE BETTER!!!
 
Check out the .300 WSM. Potent elk medicene, wide selection of bullet weights and types, and available in pleasant to carry rifle weights. One can go with lighter bullets for deer and bear.
 
Check out the ballistics for the .325 wsm. with a 200 gr. accubond it is virtually identical to the 180gr. .300 wsm. And there are now many more bullets available 150-220gr. If I was a handloader I would certainly play around a bit to find the optimal load for my rifle. But I have had good performance with 200 gr accubonds. Accurate and very minimal damage to meat as the well constructed bullet stayed together and knocked my 200+ lb. whitey flat on his arse with a high shoulder shot.

Doug
 
Short Mags??? Why would he want that? He said "long range." To me that means 400 yards and farther. He also said recoil is not an issue. Since that's the case, I would go with the 300 Ultra Mag. and load up either 200 grain Accubonds or 180 grain Barnes TSX bullets. Either of those should be good for deer as well, because they will stay together and won't ruin much meat. Just try not to hit the shoulder.
 
I ve done my homework on all of these rifles, They are all good calibers but the 300wbymag out perfroms them all!!!! in velocity and knockdown power . it gives you a wide range of different bullets from 110grn up to 250grn. But thats just my opinion. So pick up a loading manual or a balistics chart and see for yourself. I couldnt find another cal that can push a 180grn bullet at over 3200fps and still hold KNOCKDOWN POWER. The 300 WBY MAG has my vote!
 
Another thing to consider, and something that I personally like is the short action of the short mags. Some guys don't care if their bolt has a long travel and it may not be a big deal, but I sure like my Win. model 70 in .325 wsm.

Doug
 
What do you consider long range?

beavis.gif
 
Heck, who needs it under an inch at 100 yds? I have not had a rifle do that yet. IMO all those rifles mentioned, including the one you have, will work out to 400yds. If you really want to step it up go to a .338cal. The new .325 does have good ballastics, just don't know how long it will be around. I got a 300WSM last fall and love it. Dropped a nice whitey at 274yds with 150 ballistics. THis fall we'll try it on elk with 180 accubonds. I'm sure it will work, as mentioned earlier, so will all the others mentioned. From your size description, sounds like you're a whimp though...LOL! Good luck and good hunting.
 
I'd shy away from any WSM type cartridge until the Winchester bankruptcy thing gets resolved. It would suck to buy a new WSM rifle to find out in a few weeks Winchester is shutting down compeltely. I think mid to end of march was the "close the doors" date, unless they get bought out.

PS: Back on topic I use a 7STW.


-DallanC
 
bubba,

Are you saying that any other 30 cal rifle launching a 180 gr bullet at 3200 fps doesn't have the same "knockdown power " as a 300 weatherby mag??

JB

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
--Benjamin Franklin 1759
 
D13er, yeah I was wondering the same thing. The 300 Rem. Ultra Mag. and 300 Weatherby have almost identical ballistics. If anything, I think the Remington is slightly faster.
 
i would go with the ultra mag, get one with a break and you will love to shoot it,,, i know recoil aint a big thing but the ultra mag has some pop to it,, my little bro has one in a remington and i have a weatherby 30-378 w,brake and its alot nicer to shoot mine evan though his is cheaper to shoot,,,,cbryant
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-06 AT 04:39PM (MST)[p]Like DallanC I also shoot a 7mmSTW. I can push a 160gr bullet at 3400fps and it groups under a 1/2" at 100yds and about 2" at 300yds. It will reach out and touch em.
As far as recoil I was told by a very knowledgable gunsmith that a smaller frame person is going to feel less recoil compared to a larger framed person. The reason being that recoil will move a smaller persons whole body as opposed to just the shouder area of a larger person. My father and I have the same rifles shooting the same load and he has a lot more problem with the recoil than I. He weighs about 60lbs more than me. My .02 cents.
 
I like the Weatherby rifles and their cartridges.

What I don't like is the price on the ammo.

Same goes with Lazzeroni. Great quality and excellent on paper, both with ballistics and groups, but $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
 
Kilowatt,

You've got me confused with my wife.

JB

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
--Benjamin Franklin 1759
 
The magnum .30's are king. Your choices are between 300 Rem Ultra, .300 and .30-378 Wby Mags. I am trading my .270 Wby mag accumark for a .300 Wby mag accumark. That will be my serious long range rifle.
 
D13er a 30 cal rifle at close range might be close in balistics, But I thought we were talking about long range? yes the 300ultra might be a littil quicker for the 1st 100-300 yrds but after that it starts losing speed and knockdown power.Were the 300wby starts to pick up FOR LONG RANGE SHOTS. But thats just me I have a few other magnums 300wsm,7mmwsm,338 ultramag and a 375HH and they are all great calibers. but my favorite is my 300wby its my weapon of choice for distance. and i know an opinion is like a ##### everyone has one!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-06 AT 11:22PM (MST)[p]Bubba,

You need to take a physics class. After a bullet leaves the rifle, only 2 things act on it. Air resistance and gravity. Don't matter what launched it. Same speed, weight, and bullet design will do the same thing after leaving the gun.

I'm with you on opinion, the weatherby is as good as it gets but it isn't magic. Physics is physics, not opinion.

JB

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
--Benjamin Franklin 1759
 
I own a 7mm RUM and it's a flat shooting fool! It's my "Wyoming Canyon Bomber". I push a 160gr Nosler AB at 3400 fps out of it. It's zero at 300 yards, putting it 3" high at 200 and 3" low at 400. It's FLAT and fun! I used to practice at PDog at 300-500 yards and it was a riot.

160 grains, flying that fast, has plenty of punch at long range. I don't promote long range shooting at Elk/Deer, but it sure is nice to have the option. Plus, it's so nice holding dead on to 400 yards!! :)
 
dugandeer, if you are planning to enter the long range arena, I suggest you purchase the dvd "beyond belief" this will open your eyes, and show you whats possible if you have the right equipment and knowledge. These guys are dipatching game at 700-1000 yds like it's nobodys business. Many of them are using the 7mm STW as their LR set up. Good Luck.

Mike
 
I want to 2nd the good choices that someone else mentioned. I own all three 300 and 30-378 wby. and Rem. 300 ultra. I shoot 165 gr. Scirrocco bullets out of the 300 ultra at 3400 fps. and group under 1". The 300 Wby. I shoot 150 gr. Scir. at 3300 fps. Where the 30-378 comes into it's own is with heavier bullets. I can shoot 200 gr. Barnes triple shock at 3400 fps. Now that is huge knockdown power. If you want to hunt bears as well as deer and elk the 30-378 is just the ticket. It is the most versitile and in my rifles with muzzle brakes the kick does not bother me. I am 6' 175lbs. and I shoot quite alot. I loaded Swift 200 gr. A-frame bullets and a buddy killed a big Kodiak Brown Bear with one shot with his 30-378. For the reloader price of ammo is not a problem. Put a good scope on any of these rifles and practice and you'll have a long range killing machine.
 
>a 30 cal rifle
>at close range might be
>close in balistics, But I
>thought we were talking about
>long range? yes the 300ultra
>might be a littil quicker
>for the 1st 100-300 yrds
>but after that it starts
>losing speed and knockdown power.Were
>the 300wby starts to pick
>up FOR LONG RANGE SHOTS.

WTF??? Is your real name Bubba? ;)
 
JB I HAVE TO SAY I WAS WRONG IM JUST GETTING INTO THIS SORRY. IHAVE RECENTLY PICKED UP A 300WBY VANGAURD HAD IT CLASS BEDDED, AND TOPPED IT OFF WITH A BUSHNELL 6-18-50 AND JUST LOVE IT TO DEATH. ITS THE MOST ACCURATE GUN OUT OF THE BOX THAT I OWN. THE WHOLE RELOADING THING IS NEW TO ME.AS YOU CAN PROBABLY TELL LOL. BUT I DO HAVE A ? FOR YOU. IVE BEEN LOOKING AT THE BARNES TSX, NOSLER BALISTICTIP,AND THE HORNADY SST. IM TRYING TO FIND A LOAD IN A 165, 168, OR 180GRN FOR BOTH MULE DEER AND ELK. HAVE YOU TRIED ANY OF THESE ON GAME? OR WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST AND CAN YOU SHARE ANY DATA? THANKS IN ADVANCE BUBBA
 
Simply for the fact that you're going to be hunting bears with this "long range setup" i'd recommend the 300 Ultra Mag.

If the only bears you're gonna' be shooting are black bears i'd go with the 7mm Ultra Mag. As far as I know, the ballistic coefficients on some of the better 7mm (.284) bullets are far better than any offered in .30 caliber. For long range you'll want bullets that have good ballistic coefficients as they'll shoot flatter while holding up their velocity and energy way mo' better.
 
>As far as
>I know, the ballistic coefficients
>on some of the better
>7mm (.284) bullets are far
>better than any offered in
>.30 caliber.

I've heard this said and I'm not sure how true it is. Seems to me that there's nothing magic about 7mm bullets when you compare BC's to other calibers. For example here are the BC's of the Nosler Accubonds in order from lowest BC to highest:

7mm 140 grain: .485
.270 140 grain: .496
.30 180 grain: .507
7mm 160 grain: .531
.338 225 grain: .550
.30 200 grain: .588

So what am I missing? What is so special about the 7mm bullets?
 
Bob-

I don't think you can sum up bullet performance on just one factor. First off, your only looking at Nosler AB's (although that's all I shoot). I know that Hornady's Interbond BC's don't compare like above. I don't think any of the .30 cal or .338's even break .500. The .284's are the highest there and generally the .284 is the "right diameter" for manufactors if you read their material about "good flyers".... Anyway on to my real other point...

You need to take into account other factors like weight and velocity, thus path. A 160 gr bullet coming from the a 7mm RUM is very fast, flat and a good flyer. Your path is flatter on that bullet than the 200 and 225 grains bullets. Plus, plenty of energy still sitting behind that bullet as well. For example at 450 yards the 7mm is still less than 12" low, while a 300 RUM would be pushing 16" low.

IMO, nothing magic about the 7mm's. I just think the 160 gr .284 is hard to beat for long range performance on mulies and elk. "Best off all worlds" IMO.
 
NO 30's over .500???

Try these:
Nosler
180gr. ACCU = .507
200gr. ACCU = .588
Sierra:
190gr. HPBT = .533
200gr. HPBT = .565
220gr. HPBT = .629
240gr. HPBT = .711

The same goes for .338 (for example .225gr AB = .550).

I'm sure there are plenty of others.

Herb
 
As for rifles, I would stick with a beltless .30 cal. long magnum such as .300 RUM or the Warbird. They are intrinsically more accurate than belted mags.

.300 Weatherby? The .300 RUM will outperform it. It is old technology. Belts are out - except on pants and automobiles - and 30-378 WBY ;-) maybe.

GET THE 300 ULTRA
 
Whew! A lot of info here. Some real and true, some not. All I can offer is real world performance of the .300 Ultra. I use the Nosler Accubond 200 grains, with RL-25 powder. My velocity is 3200 fps. My rifle is sighted in 2 and 1/2 inches high at 100 yards. Acurracy is exceptional. At 500 yards, this load is 22 inches low, and still packing 2500 ft/lbs plus. (according to Sierra Infinity) My Ultra with a 26 inch barrel actually out performs a buddy's .30-378 using the same bullet and barrel length. Before all you Weatherby guys get ruffled, I DO understand it is due to barrel length. I have taken many animals so far at extremely short ranges, and extremely far. The .300 Ultra shoots flat, retains a lot of energy, and utilizes a large array of bullets. mtmuley
 
This is a great post, but I have to say that I had this same question in 2002 and went with the 300 ultra and never even thought twice about it. I also did not care about recoil, and I shoot in AZ where many of long range shots are across canyons for Coues, Muleys, Elk, and Bear.

I printed out ballistics, charts, energies (not knock down power as many of you call it), computational solvers, and compared nearly all of these rifles considered in this post. I also wanted a gun for all occasions and a trophy rifle for any species I hunt, at any distance, including much smaller coues deer. I wasn't concerned as much with meat loss, only flat shooting trajectories with high velocities, good ballistic coeffs, and high energy at longer distances (for me 350+ to 650 typically). I did want a gun for trophy hunting, don't get me wrong I eat what I shoot and don't only trophy hunt, but IMO if you're that worried about meat then get a different gun than those discussed here! If you shoot the bone with these calibers, you're going to waste some meat, and meat hunters shouldn't be shooting exceptionally long range anyway! I've shot coues at 150 yards with a 300 RUM 180 Gr. Nosler partitions and it didn't waste much more meat than my .243 at 175 yds on another coues deer, so go figure!

I think mtnmuley and I have our guns sighted in almost exactly the same for long range big game where I shoot 180 gr or 200 gr for Elk/Bear; however you can also shoot 150 gr Swift Scirocco for smaller short range and have a trajectory that is AMAZINGLY flat with high energy, outperforming the 140 gr. 7mm ultra (both NP - Nosler Partn)!

IMO - I wouldn't buy a short action for long range!
- I'd buy a 300 ultra over a 7mm ultra for longe range Bear
- The 300 ultra nearly matched or outperformed all other equal caliber rifles for near equal trajectory first, then examining energy second; and has flexibilty to shoot flatter 150 gr. for shorter range smaller game (you'll lose some energy at longer range of course). An awesome gun and my choice again, but now for a carbon bull barrel and some other goodies!
 
MTMuley,

Would you mind sharing your recipe for 200 gr AB & REL25?

As I'm almost out of H870 I'm looking for a new powder & maybe REL 25 will be it. In the meantime, I'm waiting to get the new Hodgdon US869.

BTW have you seen the new Federal brass? Nice stuff!

Well put jasn!
 
I have both the 7mm ultra mag and the 300 ultra mag, they are both great calibers and I think you would be very happy with any one of these two rifles. The 300 is so close to the 30-378, that the price of brass is the only consideration you will have. I would pick the rifle that fits me best and spend lots of time at the range learning to shoot it out to the ranges you plan on shooting.
Good luck.
 
HerbD, sent you a pm. jasn, It's amazing more people can't figure out that with a high power rifle, if you don't shoot where the meat is, you don't ruin any. I share your views on the .300 Ultra. For a long range cartridge it is DAMN hard to beat. I shoot the 200 gr Accubond exclusively, even for antelope. The groups I get are hard to believe (1/2" and under at 100 yds) and the down range energy of the 200 gr bullet is welcome when that long shot at a bull or buck is taken. mtmuley
 
WOW! THis thread sure has grown. I would second the vote for the .300 Ultra, lots of guns to get it in, lots fo factory loads. But while Im at it, I have to say that THE ultimate long range, large game (Elk and bigger) cartridge is the Lazzeroni 8.59 Titan. Still carries 3000 lb ft @ 500 yards. Thats more than a .270 at the muzzle. Just be prepared for a $4200 rifle/scope combo and $110 a box ammo. If I was rich and 6'5" 300 lbs, Id get one.
 
OK, many of you have recommended the 300 ultra mag or the 300 Weatherby. Now which rifle. I know the 300 ultra mag is the Remington 700 and the 300 Weatherby is the Weatherby rifles. Are there any other choices for these calibers?
 
There is quite a selection from various gunmakers in each chambering. For real value look at the Remington SPS, or the Weatherby Accumark. The Weatherby is outsourced to Japan, but I have heard good things about it. Savage also chambers the Ultra, but with a mag capacity of 2 rounds instead of 3. mtmuley
 
the weatherby accumark is not made in japan,,, at least mine wasnt ,,, its the vangaurd that is made in japan,, the howa action,, its the cheaper weatherby,,my little bro has the 300 ultra mag and if i did it again thats the route i would go,,,although i do like my 30-378 accumark.....they are all good and like others have said the animal is not going to know what hit it he will be dead before the sound gets to him anyways,,,,cbryant
 
Warbirds,Titans,Ulti-Mags,Regular Mags(I have my share) I just think long distance shooting should be practiced!
And I feel that long range shooting(400 yrds plus) should be
"AVOIDED" in hunting DEER,ELK,BEAR!
I have taken deer at extreme ranges and close range and nothing is more rewarding than a stock to close the distance and take game closely and humanly!
RACKMASTER
 
I know that remington is coming out with a Sendero II chambered in a 300 ultra mag. I am just waiting for them to come in to Sportman's warehouse (seeing that I am an Employee) So I can be one of the first ones to get my hands on one.I have A 300 Ultra mag right now and am looking to sell it so I can get the Sendero II So If anyones intersted In buying a remington 700 (Synthetic and Stainless barrel) with a Zeiss 3x9x40,Harris Bi-pod and A muzzle break (Done By Don's Sportshop) Email me at [email protected]. And If your looking For a deal on a 300 Ultra mag then Remington SPS is the way to go. Thay sell for $419.00 At sportsman's warehouse.That's Probably the best price you can get for a brand new 300 Ultra mag anywhere.
 
RACKMASTER,

I agree with you 100%.

All of the calibers mentined in the above posts have what it takes for long distance shooting. The trouble is in hunting situations there are to many variables to even try a shot out past 400-500 yards.Heck most hunters shouldn't be shooting past 200,I'm serious!

Everyone has heard the stories about so and so who shot thier deer at 1000 yards.WOW! can you imagine what the odds are for hitting a 18-24" girth with 200-350" of hold over? That means holding over 17-29 feet (depending on caliber)over a deer size animal.

Also range estimation is a bigger deal than most think.Once them bullets get out there they start dropping fast,and if your not dead on with the range your gonna miss or even worse have a bad hit and wound an animal.I consider my 300 WinMAg to be pretty flat but the difference in bullet impact between 500 and 550 yards is over 13" .Thats a miss on most deer sized game.


beavis.gif
 
Use a good laser range finder to determine the range accurately, and set up your scope with an accurate bullet drop compensator marked out in 10 yard increments. Also, if you are planning on shooting uphill, downhill, or at any angle other than flat, you should have a good inclinometer and a cut chart taped to your gun so you can dial in the difference between line of sight distance and horizontal distance. I would pass on any shots where the wind or animal is moving because even if you have a wind meter and are really good at doping, you will end up wounding game at long distances. For one thing, a wind meter only measures the wind at the shooters location and doesn't say anything about what is happening down range, and if you click in a few minutes of windage, it is sure to be wrong in a few seconds when the wind changes or the animal turns to feed in another bush. I would also recommend using a shooting tripod or some other extremely stable shooting platform and you should have a "spotter" with you to call the shots in case you need a follow-up shot. Long range shooting is a team effort and the spotter needs to know their team responsabilities as well as the shooter does. If you have an extraordinarily accurate rifle (1/4" groups at 100 yds), and an extraordinary desire to practice, practice, practice to learn what your bullet will do downrange in different scenerios, then you might be able to be a competent long range hunter. But please don't go about this half-heartedly. You need to have an obsession with perfection, and an uncontrollable urge to learn everything you can about this topic. As far as caliber goes, any of the big 30's will do fine as long as you are using heavy bullets with high B.C.'s and good construction. I personally like the Nosler Accubond because it is accurate in my rifle and a little cheaper than some of the others. It holds up well on large animals, but won't explode on the small ones. There is alot more to this long range shooting thing than most people want to admit. If you get the right equipment, do your homework, practice alot, and have a good trustworthy hunting buddy, you just might go home with a long range trophy one of these years. Good Luck.
 
cbryant11, I couldn't remember which rifle was made overseas. I know for the price (especially Wal-Mart) the rifle is a heck of a value. Also comes with a target proving 1 and 1/2" group with factory ammo, doesn't it? mtmuley
 
7mm Remington Magnum!!! Enough gun for ANYTHING on the North America Continent and All but the Dangerous Game in Africa!!! Remington Model 700 I think it was called the BEST Rifle of ALL!!! Good Luck
 
The Beyond Belief boys shoot a custom 7mm. I think it's a custom 7mm STW from what I've been told. I love my 7mm RUM and would never trade it for a .30 cal of anything. I don't want to throw 200+ grains out there to get my BC down where it already is with a .284 around 160 grains.

Another thing people are leaving out is being able to actually SHOOT some of these guns. Have you seen the recoil tables on a .300 RUM and .338 RUM pushing those heavy bullets? Holy Chit Batman!
 
I could shoot a 40 gr. out of my 22-250 improved at 1000 yards, but do you think the bullet would have enough retained energy to poke through the hide of a coyote at that distance? You need a massive amount of energy AND a high ballistic coefficient to retain enough energy to do the job at extreme long range, especially on big tough animals like elk. I agree, little 100 lb. girls probably shouldn't shoot big 30 cal. magnums, unless the gun weighs as much as the girl. But big burly hairy monster lumberjack men ought to be able to handle it easily without complaining. By all means, don't shoot a big magnum if you are afraid of it. You wouldn't be able to shoot it accurately and none of us want that. Use a gun you can shoot consistantly accurate, but remember that the bullet can only work properly if it has enough retained energy and velocity to expand, shock, and penetrate.
 
If you want ultra long range capability....Weatherby Accumark with an accubrake in the amazing 30-378 weatherby. I would suggest a high end scope....possibly a swarovski AV4-12 x 50 or a Zeiss 4.5-14 x 44mm or even the 6.5-20 x 44mm. Theres my opinion. Good Luck
 

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