East Whitehorse Oregon

forkhunter

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Does anybody know anything about the East Whitehorse unit in Oregon? We are looking for possible places to hike and maybe hunt. Never been down there. I know it is a big unit. With that, I assume there is a lot of unhuntable or marginal land. Any general info is appreciated!! Thanks.
 
Forkhunter, I have a friend who has a friend who hunts this unit. His wife has killed two really nice bucks somewhere in the 28-30" mark. But he say's he saw some HUGE bucks with the bucks his wife killed, I'm not sure why they did not get the bigger bucks. As far as the exact location in the unit that they hunted I'm not sure and I did not ask. I did see pictures of one of the buck she killed and it was a very nice buck. If you are a non resident this is a very tough unit to draw (I think). I wish I had more info. for you, hope this helpful.


Good Luck
 
Thanks for the info. I appreciate the response. I have points I don't want to burn yet. Won't get a tag in the area I am applying in for 2-3 years, but would like to look around.
 
I don't deer hunt in E.Whitehorse but I chukar hunt there in Nov.and Dec. most years and I can tell you we don't see many bucks, or deer at all for that matter. I'm sure there are a few nice ones there but it's a needle in a big haystack thing. if you do decide to hunt there you better do your home work. I hunted the Trout Creeks which is a sub section of the E. whitehorse unit a few years ago and took a beutiful buck but I was lucky,I didn't see very many deer and it's one of the best deer hunts in Oregon. Beaty's Butte or Steens are better IMO but Steens will take some points.
 
Well the steens and the butte are at an all time low right now thanks to horrible management. Ive spent most of my life recreating in the steens and beatys butte and it's a shame where these units have gone as far as deer hunting, but it's awsome coyote hunting.(clue) I had a steens tag in 04 and scouted all summer and spent days backpacking from top to bottom looking for one of the type of deer that lived there in the early 90's. There are probally a few left somewhere,but it's a small fraction of how it was not very long ago. The only place I saw any numbers of deer were around alfalfa fields. And with the 20 or so 4pt. bucks I saw that season the biggest was a 27 incher, so no deer for me in 04 in Oregon, just wasted points.

Sorry this is a sore spot, Koyote
 
I was hopeing Steens was still OK, I knew it wasn't great. I was trying to say something positive about Oregon deer hunting. maybe there's nothing positive to say. our mule deer hunting is awful, thems the facts.
 
Hey Guys, thanks for the info. I have 7 points for OR this year and I guess I'll just eat them for awhile. Although I wonder if things will ever turn around. I see the same happening to the deer in NV just south of OR. The herds are a fraction of what they were only 16 years ago. Spent some time driving the roads this winter and glassed very few deer and saw few tracks, but lots of lions and coyotes. Lots of coyote callers also but I don't think they kill enough to make a significant difference. If anyone has any better info please contact me, thanks!

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I hate to say it, but you guys are just solidifying everthing I already knew. I spent a week in the trout creeks in Sept. last year (I had a raffle tag). We saw about 25 bucks. The biggest was a 32" or so 3x3 that was thin-horned. 3 or 4 around 24" 4 points-----------and that was it. And that was without other hunters around!! Needless to say, I was disappointed. Neat country, but the deer #'s are pretty bad. One of my family members hunted the Steens last year and got a buck (about 26" 4x3), but did not see much at all---and he really knows the area well. I just don't know what to do with my 7 points. Guess I will continue to hold off and hunt other places. My uncle, a game warden for years, can't even provide me any better advice in the areas he knows. Pretty sad.
 
nvmuley, I've heard that the bordering units in Nevada are getting bad also like you say. I hope this dosen't spread too far south into Nevada, this is where I hunt mulies now and I think it's great down there. Getting landowner tags is getting spendy though.

I would save any Oregon points and see what happens down the road. With that being said it still dosen't look good, because the ODFW really dosen't care! I live in eastern Oregon and know the local ODFW here and they know the deer are A LITTLE down, but they refuse to admit that the deer here are almost endangered here compared to before 1993. All the good old timers have retired and the new guys are not from here and just don't understand or care, or they are just not as passionate as us about Mulies!

Koyote
 
It has to be cats, we haven't had a bad winter in years and when chuckar hunting in that whole part of the state we cut a lot of lion tracks, what ever you blame it's sad.
 
I tend to think that the large population of cats was the last straw. (fires, habitat lose, feral horses, coyotes, etc) Looking back over the last few decades we've always had a lot of coyotes (and they kill a lot of fawns) since the feds quite trapping and poisoning them. But we DID NOT have the lions. I know because I trapped bobcats all thru the 80's and caught not one lion and only remember seeing one lion track. Last season I saw 36 different sets of lion tracks, two years ago I counted 24 sets. I've seen as high as 5 sets of lion tracks in a single day. Every year I catch and release lions. I have video of lion killed bucks and last year found a 191 gross typical mule deer buck that had been dead for a couple of years. In a tall sage area that lions love to hunt in. You won't keep you fingers on the pulse of radical changes in some populations unless you spend a lot of time in the field. Lions don't show up well on computers or data sheets or on aerial surveys. Except maybe in NM. I talked to their biologist at the FNAWs convention and he has seen 19 lions in the last 5 years flying surveys. Lions are responsible for 85% of their sheep mortality. Oh well, I'm preaching to the choir!

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They're probably spilling over from our side, Oregon banned useing dogs in '94 and it's a been down hill slide for the game herds ever since.
 
SHane Number 1 thing is the Trout Creeks in November SUCKS period those deer this year were already over the line into Nevada by the 3rd week in October. I was really surprised that you killed that buck that you did and did not head over to the west side of the refuge the week before the Muzzleloader hunt went off and Hunt some of those bucks there were some real nice bucks that were up on the hill the week before the Juniper Muzzleloader hunt. Along with some bucks in the warner unit and a couple up of other places. But congrats on a nice buck. I got video of the 3x3 he sure was wide.

Oregon deer numbers are way down. Steens especially. But a couple of units still have some pockets of bucks. Beatty's has some pockets of 26-29 inch class bucks not alot but a couple of them.

There are some Pockets of great bucks in all of the units just got to find that pocket. With that being said it takes a hell of alot of luck, Alot of scouting and hiking, a super cub, or a nice chute plane to find the pocket that they are in.
 
nvmuley, glad you were at FNAWS this year too expressing concern about the cats, I was there too, talk is cheap. I doubt F&G will lift a finger to fix the problem. Though I think there hands are kinda tied on the cat topic in Oregon.
I like how you called them Feral horses and not majestic WILD mustangs. The town I live in Burns, Oregon is home to the second or third largest WILD(feral)horse corral and program operated by the BLM. They have recently changed it to the wild horse and burrow program because they transplanted burrows from the Grand Canyon or somthing. Who's bright idea was that, to impact the habitat of our native wildlife even more without informing the public. Probally some salad eater from central Oregon.
Sorry, another sore spot for me and our nearly extinct native Mule Deer that only hunters seem to care about!

Koyote
 
HighDesert,

We were in in the trout creeks in sept, not nov. The buck I got was nov. in the Juniper unit. We actually hunted 2 days on the west side of the refuge and I passed a 3x6 about 30-32" wide with strange horns. There were a couple real monsters on the refuge, but they seemed to have no intention of leaving. One of those bucks I believe is the only deer I have ever seen that I think is a boone and crockett buck. Perfect 4x4 about 30" wide and very tall---but he was staying put. Do you have that footage of the 3-point on DVD? Would love to see it. Was he in a bachelor group? I think there was 7 bucks when we saw him. Saw him 2 days in row. Sat and watched him from about 400 yards for about an hour the second day and wished he was a little bigger or had more points. We tried hunting up in the burn, but the snow and fog pushed us down lower. Any other year I would have had more time to hunt, but I only had the week in sept and the 4 days in nov. Could have hunted one more morning, but one of the ranchers let me on with no fee and I shot the buck I got on his land.

Did you see the big 3x3 on the refuge? We drove over and looked at him---I guess he was in the same spot nearly every night. Figured he was 36-38" wide. Widest buck I have seen alive. My uncle told me he actually came off the refuge the next week, so I guess I just missed out.

You live somewhere around the area, I assume?
 
koyote, my how things have changed over the years. Private individuals used to control horse numbers with roundups. Now we taxpayers pay to round them up and keep and feed them. Numbers are way to high on the range as they compete with native animals and ranchers existing grazing allotments. Predators populations are also way too high and we get taxed more money (ie predator management fees for EVERY biggame application) to pay more government workers to take a few predators in select areas. Game departments are strapped for cash so license fees keep going up as tag sales keep going down. The logic escapes me. I am convinced though that the only way we will get lower predator numbers is for todays big game hunters to do it themselves and how many people really have the time to do that. Most are lucky to have several weeks to hunt.

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Shane
That Big 4x out on the East side of the refuge he was definately a Pig. He did leave the refuge he went out to the steens as soon as they locked the gate and that nice heavy snow came on the 27th. As did Babe the buck down there at Frenchglen. He was in the Steens side up on the hill. for 3 days after the snow storm. That Great big wide buck up there to the South of the loop road he sure was wide as can be. I only had him at a max of 36. There was a great buck directly west of there. I had him at close to 185. Big Deep 4x4 but he went to the refuge day before the Juniper hunt 2 guys bumped him who were scouting.

But yeah that 3 point When i found him he was up ontop near Govt. Corral he was with another nice 4x4. I got video of him on July 29. SO i know he grew up some more.
 
We saw the buck you call "Babe" also, but he was right in Frenchglen. Not really a deer I considered. He was on prohibited property and seemed a little too used to people. We hunted up above the refuge, but it seems like there had been too many chukar hunters----not many deer. I wish I would have had more time---I am sure I could have gotten onto something better. In fact, I passed up the same buck I shot the day before still hoping to find something better. We saw 2 big bucks on the west side of the refuge. One was a really heavy-horned 4x4 about 28" or so--beautiful, and the other was the B&C buck I mentioned before. I guess there was a non-typ running around one of the ranches at the base of the trout creeks (don't know the name), but we didn't see him. Tag of a lifetime---but I got it in the wrong year and the oregon deer situation is so bad. My dad and uncle got some real great deer 10-15 years ago, but all the areas they hunted have been seriously damaged deer herds.
 
Been reading this thread and was wondering what needs to be done to begin to restore the SE units to what they use to be. Besides killing predators. What allowed the predators to increase so much? There couldn't have been that many hound hunters down there that ran dogs before the ban so what happened. Is there anything hunters can do that ODFW won't do to help habitat? Maybe if hunters banned together and got on ODFW's heels maybe something might get done?
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-06 AT 07:34PM (MST)[p]oregonbowhunter, if you came up with an idea, we'd all be real happy! A quick recap on the predator issue for you. The goverment used to have hired trappers and lion hunters and they used to put out 1080 poison baits for coyotes. Lions didn't exist in my country. State harvest records back that statement up as well as conversations with the government guys. In college guys taking wildlife mangement were taught that predators could not control a prey species. This theory based mostly on the lynx/snowshow hare relationship and assumed to be true for all. Game managers were taught and believed it was impossible for predators to have any impact on game animals. As time went on Nixon outlawed the use of 1080 poison in about 1971. Then fur prices went sky high and trappers were taking lots of coyotes and cats. That slowed down about the mid to late 1980's. Most agree that mule deer populations were at an all time high about 1988. Hunting was good! I saw lots of deer! We had our drought years and our bad winters and the deer survived and prospered. Heck they evolved thru all that stuff, they can handle it. Then the elevation of the status predators came about. Lions were made big game animals, some states outlawed trapping, and predator populations took off. Lions have been completely protected for 30 years in CA. And lions do migrate to find open territories. You can have a lot of lions around and never see any, cats are just like that. I agree that habitat is the #1 thing in having game populations, no habitat no deer, that's simple to see. But I believe that high predator numbers can trump the habitat card. What does it matter what shape the range is in if 80% of the fawns are eaten in the first year. Do a google search, type in mule deer, predators, coyotes and see what comes up. There were some long term studies done in CA, one for 15 years. The deer herd went from 18-19,000 animals down to less than 2,000. The scientists arrived at the conclusion that the lions were the main culprit. One lion for every 30 deer is way to high! Do you hear that study ever sited as proof? Nope it's the lack of rain or too much snow or not enough rain in june, or too much rain in april, etc etc. I strongly feel that it's just politics at play. What game department will, would, or has stood up and said we need extensive predator control work if we are to increase our deer herds. None. Everyone is afraid to honestly take the issue on. Can you imagine the letters to the editor that would create !!! Those good old days are gone. We will have low deer numbers for along time. I can't wait till the wolf gets here.
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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.
 
nvmuley, Very well put and 100% accurate. would you run for Governor of Oregon?
 
Ahww shucks,politics is not in my future, seriously though, doesn't it hurt to know what once was and is now gone. We do have a few great bucks around but not in any numbers. These comments and posts are not just my thoughts. I have a circle of friends that still spend alot of time outdoors and have decades of life experiences to draw from. Even one hound hunting friend of mine admitted this year "we have a lion problem". We believe what we have seen in the field. One guy is a retired wildlife biologist from Alaska with lots of experience with wolves. Face it, hunters are in the minority today and wildlife lovers just don't know what's going on since they seem to get their information from PETA and the American Humane Society and they hate hunters. You would think they would like more opportunity to see and photograph more big bucks and let more "baby" deer live. Hunters have been the ones pushing game departments for more predator control and I think maybe that caused some egos to get bruised. People can be kinda stubborn sometimes. Seems like more time is spent proving that hunters are wrong about the issue than trying to see if it's a possibility. hehe, and I guess this post isn't helping out in that department!
I see where SFW pays for some coyote control with members money. Good for them. Maybe that is the only way for it to get done? Private money. But hunters pockets are only so deep, we already pay for almost everything.

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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.
 
It's a sad mess. I hunted Colorado last year for muleys what they're doing is working so there is hope. that means limit the hunters and control the cats . I'm sure it's not that simple but the deer numbers and quality were like when I was a kid in the 60's and 70's, I never thought I'd see deer like that again. unless we can control the cats in Oregon we're screwed, and the hunters shooting the few dinks that are left aren't helping either. something needs to be done and soon or we can write the deer off.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-06 AT 07:05AM (MST)[p]huntindude, I also hunted CO last year. And like you saw more deer than I have in the last decade. They have such good deer habitat and so much of it and a large deer herd. Many areas in the west don't have that much good deer habitat but these areas can still support pretty good deer populations and have great hunting. It seems to me that the predator densities seem to be about the same in both habitat types. The big difference is predators kill and eat the same amount of prey, and kill amounts to a higher percentage of deer in the areas of more marginal habitat types. Which is what a lot of the western deer live on. Predators taking 50% of a deer herd will reduce that deer herd faster and keep it depressed. Predators taking only 20% of a deer herd in another area will not impact that herd as much. Look at what a good job the Jicarilla Apache's do managing the mule deer on their land. More B&C bucks killed on that patch of land than the rest of the state! Mule deer are a priority there when tags go for $12,000, they know what needs to be done and they do it. No PC crap, just do it. Extensive predator control on both coyotes and lions. Compare that to lands right outside the Apache lands. Same deer, same genetics, not the same results.
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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.
 

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