TWINS

Tuffbucker

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I was reading the "Darner-post" and it made me start to think....

Now Im not saying that this is what happened in the Darner case, it is obvious that those are the same bucks.. but I started to wonder...

In humans, there are two types of twins....identical and fraternal. Identical come from a single egg that splits...therefore causing the two children to have identical DNA, fingerprints, etc. Fraternal come from two seperate eggs...therefore the resulting children have different DNA, fingerprints...

Now do you think that the same thing happens in Mule Deer? And if so if you had identical twin male fawns, that both grew up in the same environment with similar amounts of food, water, etc....do you think the result would be two bucks with IDENTICAL racks???

Well, what do ya'll think??? Like I said, this thought just came to me, and I was curious what other people thought about it?

TUFF
 
It would be highly unlikely, however I think it is certainly possible. I have heard of and seen deer and elk have twins.
 
Twin buck fawns could definately have a lot of the same antler characteristics but because there are outside factors contributing to antler growth, it would be highly unlikely they would grow exactly the same. Something as simple as one buck spending more time at the mineral lick, or one liking a particular feed better than the other, one being healthier, one being a little carless during the soft velvet stage, ect... If you look at multiple years of sheds off the same buck you can see dramatic differences from year to year and his genetics are the same every year.
 
I think that if they were "identical twins" and not "fraternal twins", that the antlers would have to be similar. I think your right about their being some differences because of the additional factors involved in antler growth, but I also think that the bucks genetics also determine a lot of what the bucks antler configuration is going to be. You might get one with a little more mass, tine length, etc., depending on some of the factors BCBOY talked about, but I think overall the identical twin bucks would be EXTREMELY similar. I doubt there has ever been a study on this kind of thing, but its kida intersting to think about!

SCOTT
 
Id have to agree with BCBOY on this one, althought in nature, you can never truly rule out anything. So I guess it is possible, although extremely unlikely.






 
Up in Utah on a ranch that we hunt, we had a few bucks that had a nice 4pt on left side and a huge 2pt on the right side there was 4 bucks, one had a 28"-29" spread and heavy beams, one about 26" spread lighter beams, 2 had a spread about 23" with willow type beams, BUT one of the bucks had the 2pt on the left side and the 4pt on the right and the other had it 2 pt on the right and 4 pt on the left,I ask the GW-Bio about it and he told me that they was twins and that the horns sometimes come out different because of the twin factor, some twins will have a dropper and it will be on different sides of the antler, It was sure different seeing those two standing together with the huge 2pt on different sides.
 
I don't think twins will grow and identical rack. The best evidence of this like BCboy pointed out is how a buck won't grow an identical rack every year. The genetics are still the same but for what ever reason the buck will grow slightly different every year.
I do think twins will grow very similar racks. I've seen a lot of bucks that I think are twins.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-11-06 AT 02:25PM (MST)[p]Identical, fraternal.. it doesn't matter. You need to seperate antlers from physical characteristics. If they grew antlers in the womb based on indentical DNA, sure, you would see the same thing. They don't though. They grow new ones every year. There is absolute no way that 2 twin bucks would eat exactly the same thing (I'm talking blade for blade), drink the same, and both have the same levels of testosterone.

Growning antlers isn't like growning something in the womb. This exact science exists in the womb. None of us are looking at physical features of the deer when looking at them, just antlers. Probably alot of "identical twins" running around out there. Probably look like twins the same humans do, but not their antlers.

ODDNUT1
Kirt C.
Hunt Odds.com
 
I think that the bucks would be similar, but in all sets of antlers there are differances, I actually watched 2 bucks for a number of years that I always thought were identical twins because they were always together and their racks were all but identical, exept for one of the 2 was always a couple of inches wider, other than that the two deer appeared to be identical down to the eyeguards and horn mass.
 
I think that they could be close, but to be that identical would be a one in a billion chance. I don't think there is any way they could be that identical.
Good post though, make you wonder!!!
 
Back in the early eighties my falling partner and I would road hunt after work on the way back to town during hunting season and I spotted this nice 4-point buck on Don's side of the road. There's a nice buck! He got out and leaned his old 30-06 over the hood of the pickup and busted that buck right in the neck and down he went. We walked over there and Don goes--oh #####! It was kind of funny cause after he came back from Vietnam he didn't get too excited about anything. About 5 yards behind the buck he shot there layed another hit right thru the boiler room. Well, my hunting season was over, I had to burn my tag on that one. But they were twins and you couldn't tell them apart. I figured they were probably 3 yr olds with 24in. spreads. Iv'e seen other twin bucks like that and in their younger ages you can't tell them apart. That was back in the days when you could still get an X zone tag fairly easy.
 
A couple years back I found an old white shed of a nice 170ish 4 point buck. When I got back to our cabin I noticed that it looked very similar to the buck we have mounted at the cabin that was harvested in the mid 70s. I held the shed up to the left antler of the mounted buck and they are identical. I would guess that they score within 1/2 inch of each other - same lenght on all tines and the same mass in all the same places - even the burr at the bottom is nearly identical.

Of course this is a straight 4 point buck not anything like the Darner buck from the articles at hunts.net.
 
Seen the same thing only the were whitetail/muley hybrids. Both had muley body conformation and small 8pt whitetail racks. Both laying next to each other and were both killed on a drive. I wouldn't say the racks were identical but the similarities were undeniable. Pretty wierd.

sagehnter
 
Me and my brother where we hunt we have a set of bucks we argued over a couple yrs ago. He saw a 2x3 with some kickers coming off the 3 point side. Said there where 4 kickers on it. I told him I saw a 2x3 with 3 kickers on the 3 point side. We discussed it and decided one of us mis counted and it was pretty funny. We hunted together one day and low and behold we find 2 bucks bedded together. They where being lazy and was dosing in the afternoon. My brother went around to one side and came in while I stalked from another angle. Got to within 100 yds and they both where staring my way and I got video of them and they where identical width about 24". One had 4 kickers and the other 3. Same coloration in face and body. Identical size when they stood up. The only exception was one had 1 extra kicker about 1 1/2". We got a good laugh out of that after we both hooked back up together. So we nicknamed them the Twins. I missed one on opening morning last year and he was a 4x4 about 26" wide and he had 4 kickers. Had some nice mass. They both made it threw hunting season last year.
Does make you wonder if it is possible. Did see alot of doe's with Twins also out there.


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Super'

I might take that into consideration, if it weren't for the acorn horn on the right antler...Sooooo
 
Tuff, good post! and good comments. I have seen what I thought were twins running together several times. I think you might find two young twin bucks that measure the same but the racks would not be identical. Even if they had the same diet, under close inspection the "beading" around the bases and the blood lines would be different. As twins get older the differences should become more obvious as outside elements like diet and damage in the soft velvet stage play factors in antler growth.

No question on Darners Buck. The buck has too many unique tines and the acorn is the "cincher". Just my 2 cents. Thanks for posting.
 

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