Possibe solution to better deer hunting

[swbuckmaster]

DWR don't mess with success!

There is a unit in the state of Utah that has no winter range, has tons of construction, millions of people and is hunted exteremly hard. But this area is the best area in the state for public hunting with an over the counter $35 tag period.

It should be a model for the DWR!

I used to be a big riffle hunter and got sick of every area I hunted I would see millions of orange dots on every ridge and never see a decent buck all season. I now only hunt with a bow and have hunted the Wasatch Front for almost 10 years and this unit has gotten better every year. Why has it gotten better? It isn't because of less hunters. This unit is hunted extremely hard from Aug thru end of Nov. Some days it is down right frustrating! But I will still hike those mountains and put up with the crowds of people because of the LE size of deer that roam those hills.
The reasons this unit has gotten better is archer hunters that hunt this unit are not as successful as rifle hunters or they are holding of on their trigger!

It is my personal opinion that if the rest of Utah wants to have a better hunting experience they need to cut the number of the more successful hunters down meaning "Riffle and smoke gun hunters". I will put smoke gun hunters in this category because these guns in the average person hands are down right accurate.

This would be my goal and it would need a few years to perfect.
It would be a state wide draw with micro managed units with three short four or five day riffle or smoke gun seasons. This would help the deer out by not running into other hunters when being pursued. It might also take you 2 to 4 years to draw but when you do draw you might be able to kill 160 to 180 class or better deer. This would turn the whole state into a kind of limited entry unit but with more opportunity then the current LE units offer. The other draw back to my solution is you might have to raise the price of the tags also.

But if you still wanted to hunt every year and you didn't draw a tag you could still buy an over the counter $35 archery permit and hunt those same units with a longer season modeled after the Wasatch extended unit only because it is working.
This would improve the deer being harvested as well as satisfy the people that would still like to have the opportunity to hunt every year. Win Win

Fire away I am open to suggestions.

 

[YukonDall]

LAST EDITED ON May-18-06 AT 09:21AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON May-18-06 AT 09:19?AM (MST)

SWBM, I'M SURE YOU ARE VERY SLECTIVE IN YOUR SHOT CHOICES. IF THE REST OF THE SHARP STICK COMMUNITY OF HUNTERS ARE AS UNDISIPLINED AS THE BOW PEOPLE I HAVE TALKED TO (ROCKIES ELK & DEER) YOUR IDEA MIGHT NOT FLY. I REALLY RESPECT A ARCHER W/DISCIPLINE BUT I HEAR "I STUCK A COUPLE" WAY TO OFTEN. NOW WHEN I HERE THIS I SENSE WITH SOME GUYS IT JUST COMES W/ THE TERRITORY.....THIS MAKES ME SICK. NOW I UNDERSTAND ITS NOT ONLY BOW HUNTERS, AND SITUATIONS DO OCCURE. SEVERAL OF THESE LOOSE LIP BOW HUNTERS HAVE EXPLAINED MULTIPLE HITS, LONG RANGES, BAD ANGLES, TO ME. YOUNG HUNTERS SEEM TO BE THE BULK OF THE PROBLEM, BUT WITH THIS GOING ON I THINK BOW HUNTERS ARE REMOVING MANY, MANY ANIMALS----- WITH THAT IN MIND---WHY CUT BACK ON RIFLE HUNTERS. I DONT WANT TO GET DOWN ON BOW GUYS, OR ANY HUNTERS......BUT SHOT DISCIPLINE IS FIRST & FOR MOST. YD.

 

[adamsoa]

LAST EDITED ON May-18-06 AT 09:37AM (MST)[p]I think all groups have some sucky hunters. I know a few archers that have done bad but just as many rifle hunters who have made poor hits, shot way to far, and practice ONCE a year and that is on the hunt. We all need to get togather on some of this. I'm mainly an archer now but I still like to shoot my guns. I wouldnt mind taking some of the pressure off on the rifle hunt and move it to the archery. They have MUCH lower success and people still get to hunt.

Andy

 

[cabinfever]

micromanagement. need I say more

Mike

 

[D13er]

RIFLE is a weapon, RIFFLE is moving water or nothing.

JB

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
--Benjamin Franklin 1759

 

[Colville]

It's a false assumption. Regardless of what this site pushes, most hunters want increased oportunity over increased trophy value. MOST don't want to hunt every 4 years they'd rahter get smaller deer more frequently. I understand what you want and not strangely, what you are suggesting basically benefits ONE group of hunters over the others, yours, that rarely works out well.

 

[DallanC]

>It's a false assumption. Regardless of
>what this site pushes, most
>hunters want increased oportunity over
>increased trophy value. MOST don't
>want to hunt every 4
>years they'd rahter get smaller
>deer more frequently. I understand
>what you want and not
>strangely, what you are suggesting
>basically benefits ONE group of
>hunters over the others, yours,
>that rarely works out well.

Well said. I'd rather hunt every year than once every 4, 5 or 10... and there is no guarentee that there will be lots of monster bucks even then. Wouldnt it suck to goto this type of system and you draw out on your 5th year of waiting to get to hunt after a MASSIVE winterkill, and not see anything to shoot.

That happened to my brother in law's brother btw... Nevada. 5 year wait for him and his friends and they didnt see a single buck... nothing, nada. He pretty much quit hunting after that.

 

[hilltop]

if your luck is any thing like mine, you would be lucky to hunt once in ten years.
UNSUCCESSFUL EVERY YEAR.

 

[ktg]

LAST EDITED ON May-18-06 AT 12:59PM (MST)[p]
Yukon, Agreed. It makes me sick when I hear an archer say that they stuck a deer and didn't find it so they are going out hunting again later. It happens WAY too often.

 

[swbuckmaster]

D13er and the rest -Sorry about my spelling I was in a hurry and didn't proof read my post.

I didn't mean to sound like I was putting rifle hunters down. I am also a rifle hunter that has been trying to draw a rifle deer tag for many years. I am not happy with the wait on a once in a life time tag for deer either. The only reason I can be patient is I can hunt LE quality deer every year with my bow with the Wasatch. I believe they could do this in other places also. It only gives us as hunters more opportunity which is what all of you has said you want, and satisfies the rest that want quality.

Cabin fever
You are the only one that has an idea of what you want to happen What are you trying to do with micro management are you trying to get more deer or better quality. Just wondering

Yukon Dall and KTG
Rifle hunters are just as capable of wounding deer. I have heard I missed one at 500 yards and so on. The only animal I have lost in 20 years was a spike elk I shot at 300 yards with my 7 mag when I was 18. The point is what ever weapon you use you have to be ethical in your shot placement and follow up. I have never lost an animal with a bow. The last 3 only went 20 yards when shot.

Colville
I am not trying to benefit one group of hunters over the next. But Utah is in need of something. I believe you would agree on that. There will come a day when they cant just give out a million tags every year. And when that day comes I am trying to leave a window for every hunter to still be able to hunt every year.

Here is one example
Arizona has a unit that is a draw. You might not ever draw this unit in you life with a rifle but you can hunt it with an over the counter archery tag. This unit is called the Arizona strip one of the best units in the world for monster mule deer.

We as hunters need to stick together we simply cant tear each other apart any more or we are just helping PETA.

 

[Daxter]

When habitat managers do a habitat improvement project they don't say, "Deer love bitterbrush so all we have to do it turn this entire mountain into a stand of pure bitterbrush and everything will be perfect." That just wouldn't work for the deer, they need bitterbrush, but they also need some sage, some forbs, and some grasses. Just as vegetative monocultures aren't good for deer, a monoculture of hunting strategies also isn't good for hunters. We need a diversity of hunting opportunities. Some units should be managed for trophy quality, others for hunter opportunity, and there should also be some units in the middle. Utah seems to have some diversity, although perhaps not as much as some other neighboring states. What I think Utah is missing are there in the middle units that a guy can draw in 3-5 years and expect to have a chance at a mature buck, not the same kind of quality as a Henry Mtn. tag, but a little better than the general tag. I know that big bucks and good bulls get taken off the general deer and any bull elk units every year, but in general Utah gives hunters two choices Heaven or Hell. You put in for 10-15 years and draw a LE tag and it is Heaven with lots of animals to look over and choose your trophy. Or you buy a tag for a general hunt which can be like Hell with most guys shooting the first thing they see in fear it might be the last. I think if we could micromanage by breaking the 5 general units into smaller units and provide a more diverse selection of hunting opportunities it would help. Pushing more hunters into less successful weapons might be part of it too, but I am not a big archery guy so I want to keep hunting with my rifle and muzzleloader (there is my bias). I do think that the in the next few years there will be some changes, but for now I guess we just have to hope for mild winters, wet summers, and successful habitat improvement projects.
Dax

 

[BowHuntr]

I agree that there needs to be more micromanagement done in regard to Utah's deer herd. swbuckmaster, I would also like to see my chances of shooting a 160-180 class buck every year increase. But, the one thing I think you are overlooking is money. That is the BOTTOMLINE when it comes right down to it. The dwr is not going to sacrafice millions of dollars and the risk of losing more hunters by cutting the number of tags of the most popular hunt, (the rifle hunt). In my opinion, I don't think that will ever happen, at least to an extent that would make a considerable difference.
But, I do think they should be setting up some form of micromanagement for the state. I drew a LE tag in 99', and probably not going to draw one again until 09-11'. 10-12 years between tags, and possibly longer than that is terrible. They need to spilt things up and manage more units for trophy quality in my opinion. Some of our bordering states have far better systems for managing their herds and LE draws, and I wish Utah would adopt something similiar. The system they have now does more harm than good.

my .02 cents

bowhuntr

 

[swbuckmaster]

Bowhuntr- How many years did it take to draw your LE? Which unit did you draw? Were you successful? If so how big was it?

 

[Califelkslayer]

Dax, I agree w/you. Utah needs some mid-range units. i'm not a utah fan anyways because of the wait involved. This probably makes alot of people happy. I apply in Nv, Co, Id, Az, Or, Wy, and Kali every year but only in Ut every other year because their system requires lots of points, the draw is so early and I have no idea of the best units. I personally have experence in units of each of these other states but don't expect to draw 2 utah tags in my lifetime. How do you learn a unit if you only hunt it every 10 years?