B_F_E_ & PUNY HORNS!!!

[bobcatbess]

HERES YOUR ANSWER B_F_E_!!!

YA SEE MANY MOONS AGO UTAH'S DEER HERD FLOURISHED!!!

THE AVERAGE AGE CLASS OF THE BOONER BUCK DAYS WAS UP & BEYOND ANYTHING ITS BEEN SINCE!!!

I'M TALKING BACK BEFORE THE UDWR LEARNED WHAT GREED WAS!!!

THEN THEY LEARNED THEY COULD SELL DEER!!!

ON CERTAIN YEARS YOU COULD HAVE BOUGHT SEVERAL BUCK PERMITS!!!

LATE HUNTS,NOVEMBER & DECEMBER!!!

BY THE EARLY SEVENTIES OUR HERD HAD BEEN WAY OVER FRICKEN HUNTED!!!

BY THE TIME I WAS ABLE TO LEAGALLY HUNT IT WAS A DONE DEAL!!!

THE AVERAGE AGE CLASS OF THE BUCKS TAKEN IN UTARD IS A JOKE & HAS BEEN FOR 35 YEARS!!!

HERES WHERE PEOPLE WILL ARGUE WITH THE cat!!!

BACK IN THE BANNER BUCK DAYS IT WASN'T SUCH A SERIOUS THING TO HAVE A TWO POINT DOING THE BREEDING,EVEN THOUGH HE WAS ONLY A TWO POINT HE WAS PACKING SOME DECENT GENETICS,HIS DAD,HIS GRANDAD & HIS GREAT GRANDAD WERE BUCKS WITH DECENT GENETICS & THEY ALL TURNED INTO DECENT BUCKS!!!

NOW DAYS ITS A BIG DEAL,YOU SEE THAT TWO POINT NOW DOING THE BREEDING HASN'T GOT GENETICS FOR $HIT & NEVER WILL HAVE,HIS DAD WAS PUNY,HIS GRANDAD WAS PUNY & HIS GREAT GRANDAD WAS PUNY,NONE OF THEM TURNED INTO A BUCK YOU'D EVEN RAISE YOUR GUN FOR!!!

I'VE SEEN SEVERAL UNITS SHOT COMPLETELY OUT IN MY DAY,UNITS THAT GOT SO BAD THEY HAD TO CLOSE THEM,THE HERD WAS STARTED OVER WITH JUNK GENETICS,INTERBRED,SPIKES BREEDING THE MOTHERS,HIS DAD WAS A SPIKE,HIS GRANDAD WAS A SPIKE,HIS GREAT GRANDAD WAS A SPIKE AT AGE 3!!!

DO YOU BOYS SEE WHAT I'M SAYING???

THERES ANOTHER 50 REASONS WHY DEER ARE DOING PISS POOR IN UTAH BUT THINK ABOUT THE ABOVE!!!

THE GENETICS ARE PISS POOR & BEEN SHOT OUT YEARS AGO,ONCE THIS HAPPENS YOU'RE IN DEEP DOO-DOO!!!

THE ONLY bobcat SUGGESTING THERES ALOT OF DIFFERENCE IN THE TWO POINTS OF THE 60'S DOING THE BREDING & THE TWO POINTS OF THE NEW MELLENIUM DOING THE BREEDING,ARE ANY OF YOU OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER THE BODY SIZE OF SOME OF THE BUCKS OF THE 60'S???

 

[MTQuivers]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-06 AT 09:26PM (MST)[p]I think that you have a pretty negative outlook on things. I agree that there are certain things that the fish and game could do better (such as manage the elk numbers better)and they do run it to much like a business, (they want $$$) BUT I don't think that Utah's deer herd is NEARLY as bad as you make it sound. The main reason for deer herds declining since the 60's is the much larger human population and therefore less winter range and MORE hunters. I don't know where you hunt but I know that even right here in Utah/ Salt Lake County where we probably have the biggest population of people and one of the highest density of hunters, I have averaged seeing 16-18 bucks per morning during this years scouting trips. I do simply 1-2 hikes into some fairly remote country above ten thousand feet and the deer herds seem to be doing pretty darn good. (Especially considering two years ago we had a major slaughter on the rifle hunt do to the snow.) On my slowest day scouting trip I have seen 13 bucks. I would also point out that at least half have been 4 points and mature 3 points. I have seen several bucks in the 150-175 range and I have watched the same group of bucks in the same basin on numerous occasions. I know that public land is a challenge but I think if you would quit being so negative and get out and pack in a little further than the average guy you would see Utah does have some decent Mule Deer opportunites for even the average over the counter guy. As far as genetics I don't think that it really matters if a deer is a spike or a two point and it's grandpa was a two point the genes are the same no matter when they breed. Even 200" deer are a two point at some point and if the two points had the chance to age I think you would be suprised how big they would be. To me hunting is over 50% mental and I think that starts with a positve attitude. If you think the hunting sucks EVERYWHERE it probably will SUCK for you come time for the season. Your hunt is over before it starts. If you think you can find a nice buck and if you will push yourself to climb higher knowing that a big buck is just around the next corner-YOU MIGHT BE RIGHT! GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE__THE BOWHUNT STARTS THIS WEEK!!!!!!!!!! I CAN'T WAIT!!!

 

[bobcatbess]

HEY JASON!!!

YOU MIGHT THINK ITS A NEGATIVE ATTITUDE BUT YOU'RE WRONG!!!

I KNOW WHAT UTAHS DEER HUNTING USED TO BE & WHAT IT IS TODAY!!!

SURE THERE ARE SOME BIG BUCKS LEFT IN UTAH!!!

BUT COMPARE THE BIG BUCK NUMBERS TO THE 60'S!!!

MATURE 3 POINTS,LMMFAO!!!

THATS ONE OF THE FRICKEN PROBLEMS,YOU BOYS PLACE THE 2-3 YEAR OLD BUCKS AT A MATURE LEVEL,GET A LIFE!!!

I'LL MAKE YOU A BET I VENTURE BACK IN A LITTLE FURTHER THAN YOU DO!!!

YOU MIGHT BE SEEING BETTER BUCKS,HELL I'M NOT ARGUEING THAT,BUT DON'T FRICKEN TELL ME I NEED TO VENTURE IN A LITTLE FURTHER!!!

THE ONLY bobcat NOT NEEDING AN EDUCATION ON WHAT THE DWR DOES OR DON'T DO!!!

 

[Tuffbucker]

Okay, I dont mean to be an a$$, but was a new thread on this really neccessary. Couldn't this all have been added into B_F_E's original thread!?!?!?

 

[MTQuivers]

I don't want to argue with with but I just feel like the opportuntiy is there. If you are hiking in a long ways and you are not seeing good bucks then maybe you should hike in somewhere else. As far as your statement about hiking in further than I do I guess you could be right BUT I'm pretty sure I have a bunch of buddies that would argue with you. I pack in at least two or three morning per week and that is just during the scouting season. I am not saying that I am an expert (because once you think that you can't learn anymore), but I will say that I put ALOT of miles on my hiking boots each year and unless you are a billy goat I probably have not seen you where I hunt. As far as the comment about 2-3 year old deer being great bucks I think you imagined that because I never said anything like that. All I said is that the majority of the bucks I am seeing are not two points and spikes like you claim, and that I have seen some pretty impressive public land mulies over the last few years. I really don't care if you like my opinion but it is still my opinion that it is hard to hunt an area that you have a bad attitude about. As far as telling you that you need to venture further that was simply a suggestion. I don't know how or where you hunt but if you aren't seeing quality deer then go in further or go somewhere else.

P.S. Deer herds will never be what they were in the 60's in any state. Just look at the B&C entries since the 60's. Even with more hunters... there are WAY less entries. Not just in Utah but EVERYWHERE. We need to quit living in the past.

 

[bobcatbess]

YOU DON'T MEAN TO BE AN ASS,LMMFAO!!!

DO YOU SAY THAT TO EVERY PERSON YOU PULL OVER???

I DON'T MEAN TO BE AN ASS BUT I'M WRITING YOUR ASS UP FOR A NOMINAL FEE O.K.!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING IF TUFF BUFF DONE ANY SPEEDING TODAY,DID YOU SPEED TO THE DONUT SHOP???,HOW ABOUT ON THE WAY HOME SO YOU COULD SEE WHERE I ####ED UP ON M.M.???

 

[Tuffbucker]

Yummmmmmm.......DONUTS!!! *drools*

 

[bobcatbess]

YOU SAID SOME MATURE 3 POINTS DID YOU NOT???

O.K.!!!

I'LL HAVE THE UDWR SEND ME A NORTHERN TAG NEXT YEAR & MAYBE YOU CAN SHOW ME SOMETHING BETTER THAN I'VE BEEN SEEING!!!

I CAN SHOW YOU L.E. UNITS RIGHT NOW THAT BASICALLY SUCK!!!

A FEW ARE FAIR!!!

BODY SIZE IS A TOTAL JOKE!!!

YOU EVER SEEN A 350 POUND MULE DEER???

I'LL BET YOU HAVEN'T SEEN ONE IN A GOOD WHILE!!!

IT MIGHT PISS YOU OFF BUT IF WE COULD ENHANCE THE AGE OF BUCKS THAT WOULD HELP ALSO!!!

I DON'T CALL 3 YEAR OLD BUCKS MATURE,SORRY!!!

THE ONLY bobcat KNOWING WHAT IT USED TO BE & I KNOW WHAT IT IS TODAY!!!

 

[MTQuivers]

Again I never said 3 year old bucks that was you! And I recently saw a 3 point in a hunting mag that scored 190 something. When I say a mature 3 point I mean a deer that is always going to be a three point but should be a four point as far as age. Studies show that if a buck is a three point at age 3 his main frame will almost always stay a 3 point. he may gain mass, height and even cheaters but the main frame won't change. A mature three point to me is a buck that will always stay a main frame 3 point whether he is 3 years old or 9. (My dad shot a 31" two point is Arizona and the fish and game aged it at 13 years old.) I think all of us know that a mature deer at it's peak is between 5-9 years old. I am not saying that the potential for a 200" buck is great for public land but there is plenty of opportunity for a 4-6 year old buck if you hunt hard. You won't kill one every year (especially with a bow) but you will get your fair share.

P.S. I am not in the Northern region this is Central. And if you are willing to hike a little let me know and I will show you 15+ bucks tomorrow. With the majority being four point or better and usually 1-3 in the 4-6 year age range.

 

[bobcatbess]

YOU SAID & I QUOTE:"RIGHT HERE IN SALT LAKE COUNTY"!!!

SO I TOOK IT YOU MEANT THE WASATCH MOUNTAINS!!!

ANOTHER BAD TRAIGHT FROM A HERD BEING SHOT OUT WITH NO GENETICS ARE LARGE YOUNG 3 POINTS,YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT ONE THING,A 3 POINT IS ALL THEY'LL EVER BE!!!

NOW THE BIG TWO POINT YOUR DAD SHOT,THATS PROBABLY AN OLD BUCK HEADING DOWN HILL,SOMETHING VERY RARELY SEEN IN UTAH ANYMORE!!!

I CAN'T GO HUNTING TODAY,DAMN WORK KEEPS GETTING IN THE WAY,IF I COULD I DAMN SURE WOULD,WELL I GUESS SCOUTING,HUNTINGS ALMOST HERE & ITS TIME FOR ALOT OF BOYS TO BLOW SOME STEAM!!!

I APPRECIATE THE OFFER THOUGH,MAYBE WE CAN HOOK UP & I CAN GET A LOOK AT SOMETHING I AIN'T BEEN SEEING FOR QUITE A WHILE???

GOOD LUCK,I HOPE YOU FIND MR. OLD!!!

THE ONLY bobcat ALWAYS LOOKING FOR AN AREA WHERE THE AGE CLASS IS UP!!!

 

[MTQuivers]

Just to clarify I am a bowhunter and I mostly hunt in Utah County however there is the extended archery hunt in Salt Lake County. I could take you to several places in both that we would see 10-20 bucks in a morning. The Utah County area I know is Central region for rifle because I have helped several guys hunt this area with that tag, however the Salt Lake areas that I hunt are mostly south of Parleys Canyon and they are bowhunting only with the extended archery. Good luck with your hunts.

P.S. WORK IS WAY OVER-RATED!!!!

 

[B_F_E]

Where I hunt in Wyoming I see basket small bucks & forkys, I've yet to see a spike, their genetics are obvious Superior to ours & that was not always the case.
BTW, Bess could get there by horseback it just might take you two or three days.

 

[MTQuivers]

Utah produces just as many B&C heads as Wyoming and age has a lot more to do with that than genetics. This has been said already but typically spikes are just runt deer that were born late and they can become very big if given the time they need. Plus you don't know that the basket bucks you are seeing aren't two -three year old deer that just are not very big. If you are seeing great bucks in the back country of WY maybe you should just focus on hunting there. That will take a little pressure off the deer herds for the rest of us!!

P.S. two years ago I killed an elk and went back to fetch guys with horses. We saddled them up and started in. I walked. It was only an hour in but believe it or not I was to the elk and cutting it up before the horses arrived.

Why did you turn off the Caps Lock?????

 

[bobcatbess]

I'VE HAD ALOT OF PEOPLE TELLING ME TO SHUT THE CAP LOCKS OFF BUT I CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT!!!

DON'T CONFUSE ME WITH B_F_E_,NO,NOTTA,UNT UH,NO FRICKEN WAY!!!

YOU'RE A TUFF SOB IF YOU CAN OUT WALK A GOOD HORSE,I'LL GIVE YOU CREDIT THERE!!!

WHY DIDN'T YOU PACK 1/2 THE ELK OUT & THEN GO GET THE OTHER 1/2,NO NEED IN BOTHERING THEM HORSE HUNTERS!!!

WELL YOU'VE OUT DONE ME WHAT CAN I SAY???

THE ONLY CAPLOCKED bobcat!!!

 

[bobcatbess]

MTquivers!!!

A COUPLE OF MORE QUESTIONS!!!

HOW MANY BUCKS HAVE YOU TAKEN IN UTAH OVER 25" WIDE???

HOW ABOUT BUCKS 30" OR BETTER???

I KNOW ITS KINDA PERSONAL BUT I'D LIKE TO KNOW IF YOU DON'T MIND!!!

THE ONLY bobcat LOOKING FOR BIGGER IN BETTER PLACES!!!

 

[bobcatbess]

DID YOU EVER THINK OF THIS??

BACK IN THE BANNER DAY OF MULE DEER BUCKS(PRE 1972!!!)THERE WERE ENOUGH DECENT BUCKS WITH NICE AGE CLASS THEY KNOCKED ALOT OF THE TWO POINTS OUT OF THE HERDS PREVENTING DINK BUCKS FROM DOING ALOT OF BREEDING!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING IF YOU EVER THOUGHT ABOUT THAT???

 

[B_F_E]

RE: DID YOU EVER THINK OF THIS??

Quivers, I multi-task & hunt both.

Bess, if you don't simmer down, I'll be forced to call your parole officer yet once again !!!

 

[bobcatbess]

RE: DID YOU EVER THINK OF THIS??

B_F_E_!!!

JUST WONDERING WHAT YOU THINK OF THE ANSWERS I'VE GIVEN YOU???

DO YOU THINK I'M AS DUMB AS YOU THINK I AM WHEN IT COMES TO DEER???

THE ONLY bobcat GLAD TO KNOW B_F_E_ IS MULTI TALENTED!!!

 

[MTQuivers]

RE: DID YOU EVER THINK OF THIS??

Bobcat, I am 6'4 about 240 but even a big guy like myself can barely pack out 1/4 of an elk. Plus these horsemen don't hunt and they asked before the hunt if they could have half the meat for packing it out and I agreed. I figure why kill yourself packing one ounce if you got friends with horses. Two years ago my friend killed a nice six point bull in an open unit in idaho. Even with 5 guys it was ALL WE COULD DO TO PACK IT OUT! I don't know if you have ever packed elk but it's a dirty job and I don't know anyone that can pack 1/2 an elk. In response to the question about 25+" bucks in Utah I have 3 with a rifle and one really close with a bow. (24") I also have a few really nice heavy tall bucks that are narrow but in the 4-6 year age class. As far as 30" bucks I have never taken one in Utah or anywhere else, but two of my bucks were 29" and 28". The thing you have to keep in mind is that width isn't everything. Most B&C bucks are between 24-28". Tine length is most important. I also want to mention that I have strictly bowhunted in Utah for the last 4 years and seeing big bucks and killing them are two different stories with a bow in your hand. I am not professing to be an expert by any means but I have killed a few and I stand behind my belief that although Utah's numbers have dropped their is still an opportunity for a nice buck in the 150-200" range on public over the counter hunts. Like I said before you won't kill a big deer every year but if you hunt the right areas you will get your fair share.

 

[MTQuivers]

RE: DID YOU EVER THINK OF THIS??

Hey Bobcat I must admit one thing! Last year I drew a wyoming elk hunt and I can't lie. I saw more big bucks there than anywhere I have been in Utah. It was pretty impresive. In five days I bet I saw 10-15 bucks in the 150-195 range, with one non-typical that had to have been 210-230" with 8 on one side and 6 on the other. I really wished all week that I had a deer tag. Especially since I ended up with a dink 290 class elk and my dad popped a 362" bull. I have a tag in Colorado this year where I know I will see alot of nice deer too. Maybe General Utah tags do not stack up to other states, but I FIRMLY believe the opportunity is still there in Utah for a great buck. Especially with a lot of time spent scouting and hunting. (Remember work is over-rated during hunting season.)

If you don't think big deer are breeding the does go watch the mountain above the houses in Salt Lake County in November. While hunting the extended hunt last year I must have seen 4-5 different bucks in the 160-185 range passing their genes?!@#

 

[bobcatbess]

RE: DID YOU EVER THINK OF THIS??

MTQuivers!!!

I'VE SAID FOR YEARS THAT THE WASATCH MOUNTAINS WILL HOLD THE LAST BIG BUCKS!!!

LET PEOPLE LAUGH WHEN I SAY IT,ITS O.K.!!!

NOW DOUBT THERES SOME NICE BUCKS THERE!!!

I'M SENDING YOU A PM!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING YOU'RE SURE PHSYCING ME UP!!!

 

[MTQuivers]

My dad's elk

Bobcat this pic is for you. It is sure a pretty bull. My dad was pumped. For the area we were in it is an exceptional bull.

 

[bobcatbess]

RE: My dad's elk

MTQuivers!!!

THAT IS AN AWESOME BULL!!!

LOOK AT THE THIRDS ON THAT BAD BOY!!!

I'LL BET YOU'RE DAD IS STILL ON CLOUD NINE???

THAT DOES IT!!!

I'M GOING HUNTING WITH YOU!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING IF YOU'VE GOT MORE PICS PUT EM UP,PLEASE!!!

 

[MTQuivers]

RE: My dad's elk

LAST EDITED ON Aug-16-06 AT 09:47AM (MST)[p]Just one more pic because I am on such an archery kick. I am finding out how hard archery can be. I only started with the bow four years ago but this is my best bow buck so far. (By the way it is from Utah) This year I have six tags. Utah deer and elk (General archery) Idaho deer and Elk (General Archery) and Colorado deer and Wyoming Antelope. All archery except Wyoming which I can choose my weapon. I am going to try with a bow for 3 days (sept1-4) and if I don't get one I will pull out the old .270 at the end of sept. I am starting to think that six BOW tags is to much. I could probably handle 7-8 rifle tags but BOW just takes a lot of time. Hopefully I can fit them all in!!!!

 

[kilowatt]

RE: My dad's elk

 

[MTQuivers]

RE: My dad's elk

Hey Kilowat that looks just like my dad

 

[kilowatt]

RE: My dad's elk

I tried to lighten it up a bit in order to get a better view of those tines and length, really a great looking Bull and one that your dad should be proud to hang his tag on.

Brian

 

[pigbulls]

RE: My dad's elk

Damn nice bull!!!1
What unit?

 

[4x4elk]

RE: My dad's elk

I am glad I read all of the reply's just to see that bull and here all the bullsh!t!!! bessy I have not replyed for a while for fear of the nuker!!!