The King Has Left The Building

H

huntsonora

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-21-06 AT 08:34PM (MST)[p]Earlier this month I talked with Ryan and David at Muley Crazy to see what had been found and they told me about a deer that had been found by Marvin James of James Guide Service. Marvin was going to be guiding one of the auction hunters this year and had been spending a lot of time looking for the right deer. David told me that the deer Marvin found was just a stud, points on top of points and mid 30's wide. The deer still had growing to do but they were confident that he would end up grossing in the 250's. I was living vicarously through these guys and would call them to get updates on a regular basis. One day I actually get a call from David telling me that I need to look at a post entitled "Huge Kaibab Bucks" by BigHungDog. I pull it up and read the post and David asks me what I think of the post. I told him that I thought it was BS, nobody would find a deer like that then post a roadmap on a mule deer hunting website to where he is residing. I just could not imagine anybody doing that. David then tells me that the deer BHD found and posted about is the same deer that Marvin had found. BHD has not only described this buck but has written directions on how to get to it. He tells me that it has to be the same deer based on the location and description that BHD had provided. I was floored! I bet Marvin was more surprised! Ryan and David gave him a call to get an update and see if he had seen the deer that day. They then asked him if he had seen a guy on the hill sitting in a lawn chair drinking cold beer and eating Taco Bell Burritos and told him the story of the post on Monstermuleys. I cant even imagine what was running through his mind, I imagine he was shocked that somebody else had found the same deer and even more surprised that he posted all of the information a guy would need to go in and find the deer. I know there were a couple of days after that phone call that they did not find the buck. Talk about sleepless nights, you have the Governers Tag holder flying down in a week and the deer that you had seen on a regular basis has now disappeared shortly after its location is posted on the world wide web. Long story short, the majority of the people on this site thought that BHD was full of crap and Marvin sees the buck again so his nerves are calmed somewhat. The hunt was concluded yesterday when the hunter took "King Toad".

If there has been a 250" taken with a Governers Tag in AZ this season this is the one! I saw the picture today and he is truly a great deer. He is just what BHD described, mid 30's and lots of points. The deer is a 10x11, has a 185" mainframe and has a whopping 65" of trash! It grossed 250" and change. The buck has a weak G2 on his left side but has matching forked G4s. The G4s also have matching kickers. The G2s have 3 or 4 kickers that go out and up and at the end of the main beam there is an extra fork on both sides. It is a completely different looking deer than the first buck taken this month. Its more of a classic looking non-typical. Its not near as wide but the extras make for an awesome looking deer. Again, I can tell you that this deer will end up within 2 inches of 250". On the first deer I have heard anywhere from 238" to 272" depending on who you talk to. Both are tremendous deer and should give any hunter with one of these tags a lot to look forward to this season.

Look for the story and tons of pictures in Muley Crazy in the near future. The pics and story will be well worth the wait...

Drum
 
Happy to hear.

Next time I'm paying closer attention to directions to monster bucks. Can't wait for the pics.

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
 
I don't know why BHD would post the directiond to a huge buck on the internet but if he wants to then so be it. Sounds kind of stupid to me. He must have been putting in his time in the field to find this buck just like the guide was. He might not have even known the guide was watching this buck. So if the buck left the area and the gov tag holder struck out then to bad.Thats hunting public land.

He got the buck So I will be looking for pictures and a story.
 
I don't believe for one second that this whole episode is a coincidence. Somebody is mad at somebody over something.

JB

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
--Benjamin Franklin 1759
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-21-06 AT 09:42PM (MST)[p]Too bad the majestic buck had to be whored out to the highest bidder. I would much rather see BHD get the buck than some guy that is "flying in" to shoot (not hunt) him.

Maybe BHD knew that the Deer Pimps were watching this buck and wanted as many people as possible to invade his home and scare him off, so real hunters could have a chance at him.

Or maybe BHD = Hatch? LOL!
 
That's about the saddest "hunting" story I've heard in a long time. Do the States really need the money that badly?

MULEY CRAZY. What an appropriate name!

Steve
 
You make a post about a MONSTER deer being killed, and you dont post up pictures.......WEAK!!:)

Come on Drum, Im sure you have one or two hiding that you can show us!!! PLEEEAAASSSE!!!

TUFF
 
Damn, here we go again. I guess I'am one of those whores. Yes, I'am flying into New Mexico in the near future and I've hired a guide who has been keeping tabs on this huge non typical for me. Yes, I might have to walk a few steps to SHOOT this big boy but, I wont shoot the SOB off a quad runner. Man, I love hunting and shooting.

Congrats to the Gov tag holders in AZ. Their guides and helpers have probably put more time and effort into this SHOOT than most realize.
My neighbor just bought a 45K dollar 4WD truck and I'am sure he screwed people some way or another in order to bastardize the automobile industry with a purchase (probably stole) of such a huge truck. It has so many options and toys in it that its got to be a non typical.
 
Drum -
I have the picture of one of the AZ Gov bucks and it was e-mailed to me last week (the 15th). It looks like an 8X8 with double drop tines..........but I might not be seeing all the points. Is this the first one shot, and not the buck in your post?
I don't know if I can or should post the pic?

Lien2
 
Oops...never mind. I see kilowatt posted the same pic yesterday, guess I should have looked around a little more. :)
Can't wait to see the pics of this guy!

Lien2
 
Drum,

Based on BHD's info, I went up to the ridge in section 11 and nosed around a little on Saturday, mainly to look at how bad the fire was and scout for archery deer. Figured if there were some unburned areas for bedding cover, archery hunting might be good, but not aesthetically pleasing.

Big Ridge looked like a lot of burnt toast. Saw a few does and a forky feeding along the road. Couple of trucks came out Friday night after dark, and saw one camper parked at the head of Big Ridge. I was not in the area Sunday, didn't see anyone else Saturday, so thankfully I did not mess up Marvin's hunt on the big day.

Yep, loose lips sink ships.

Doug~RR
 
Quite the story, at least now BHD has some credibility, that was one of the funniest posts on here in some time. Can't wait to see the pics, sounds like it is a good one.
 
This is the BigHungDog again. This last month or so has been quite a ride. This time period has been my initiation to MM posting. What a great time I've had. I'm sure I've made a few people scratch their heads and wonder "Who is this guy" and "Is he f***ing nuts!!" Well, I guess the proof is in the pudding. I am certified nuts!!!

Guys, there is so much more to this story than you may ever know. This is one of those things that will go down in my record books as one of the funniest stunts I've ever pulled off. The stunt isn't over yet. The best is yet to come.

There are only three ways to find out "The Rest of the Story." First, you can call Andy Rooney on 60 Minutes and see what he says (probably won't work), you can wait until after November 6th for me to post the rest of the story (a long time to wait), or you can find me on the Kaibab sitting around the camp fire smoking a great Cuban cigar and sipping on some fine Kentucky Bourbon. If you find me on the Kaibab, just ask for Henry, pull up a chair and make yourself comfortable. If you ask for Henry, I'll know how you found me.

As for the guys who found and shot the King Toad: for the guide who found him, I tip my hat and offer my congratulations. You did a great job and deserve your fees. As for the guy who paid 100k for the tag plus all the guide fees and extras, I say thank you for your generous contribution to supporting Arizona Mule Deer and the AZGFD. I say that having a guy like this kill a monster buck does nothing but good stuff for the rest of us. Next year the tag will go for even more and there will be more money to help our game herds. The only other person I would rather have killed the King Toad would have been a 14 year old kid on his first hunt while hunting with his father and grandfather. And that the 14 year old kid would have been me.

If any of you know who the shooter was or how to contact him, please send me a private message with his contact info. I would like to personally congratulate him. I also have a Cuban cigar I'd like to send his way.

Feel free to send me any private messages you want. I look forward to hearing from all of you.

Here's to seeing all of you on the 'bab.

BigHungDog



Freedom isn't free. This is the land of the free, because of the brave. Support our troops. It is only because of them that we can enjoy our way of life.
 
Put me on the list of guys on here that you've got severly confused... The only thing that makes sense to me is that you were attempting to sabotage someone's hunt, namely the Governer's tag holder and wanted to direct as much attention to the "Big Ridge" as possible and what better way to do that than via the WWW? Your way of writing proves that you're not an idiot..... Anywho, welcome to MM's, you've definatly made an impression!
 
Great story I enjoyed reading it. This story would take an interesting twist if in fact Bighungdog was in fact the guy that actually shot King Toad and he is sitting there smoking his Cuban and enjoying a shot of fine whiskey and the fact that he actually got him and us in the process!
 
Is it April Fools day?? I think we've been snookered. Nevertheless what a great story.
 
Drum,
BHD had mentioned something about a droptine he thought was maybe on the left side, was there a dropper?
 
Big, What the ? If you drank Velvet I'd fly down and have a shot and try to figure you out!!! Good Luck
 
>Guys, there is so much more
>to this story than you
>may ever know. This
>is one of those things
>that will go down in
>my record books as one
>of the funniest stunts I've
>ever pulled off. The
>stunt isn't over yet.
>The best is yet to
>come.

WoW, I'm so freaking confused. This way outclasses any of the toolbox stories of Cass, and the "Bong Thread" with the 2 point... Even O_O doesn't have this guy beat!

What 'rest of the story' are we looking for? I thought you hiked in, saw King Toad, and came home looking forward to 'your hunt'. What's the rest of the story? What are we all waiting for? (Besides an obvious and detailed account of WTF is going on!)

Michael

"What I could do, I was doing, and that was simply putting my butt on the line for my country, the country that I loved, so that all the protestors and the academics and the liberal intelligentsia back home could enjoy the right to protest against people like me, the hated middleclass." --Gary R. Smith, US Special Forces
 
Wow! another monster buck taken. How many guys did you have in your ontarage this time? How much money did it cost for this big buck? I can't believe you can call yourselves Sportsman. The guy that posted the road map on the internet probably did it because he knew that eventually every guide in the country would find it anyway. If you have a network of people out in the field, you can locate everything in sight. It takes a true Sportsman to just fly in and blow over a monster buck that is basically tied up for him. This is not hunting, it's called pimping. The guy that killed it should be really proud. He did'nt find it or spend anytime scouting, or working for it. He just showed up and blew it over. It really makes me sick to think that our hunting heritage is coming to this.
 
Yeah well, he also gave over $100,000 to wildlife. But I guess that doesn't mean anything to you does it 40incher?
 
Guys,

November 6th is the key, as BHD has a tag. Just a guess, but BHD has put the Governor's tag holder on to the Tad Pole, and he plans on taking out the Big King Toad. Best of Luck beating that one.
 
44edca9f102676aa.jpg
 
I'll never know what it feels like to donate 100,000 bucks to wildlife management. I'm glad that people are able to help out with generous donations to help a "public resource". I enjoy the hard work involved in finding an animal to hunt and getting him while everyone else is out there hunting. I often come up empty handed, but I can't describe the feeling of satisfaction when it all comes together. Hunting with a special tag when noone else is hunting is a very special privilage, but not as difficult a challenge as toughing it out with rest of us. I don't mean to discount the success of the tag holders, but they are legally hunting before the season begins IMO.
 
i.m.o. and i realize it may only be mine, a guy that gives your wildlife dept or whoever $100 to kill a deer deserves the deer regardless of when. thats $100k that i assume goes right back into management. i understand just through reading other posts here that everyone has their own opinions about each states mngment principles, but hey, what the hell. obviously it's rewarding and worth it to the guy that donated the big $$$, so let him have it. i also agree that to me, leaving the money aspect out, it would not be a very rewarding hunt, but thats me.

(now putting on flame retardant suit)
fire away.
p.s. can't wait for the rest of the king toad story, however it ends.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-24-06 AT 12:47PM (MST)[p]It means a lot, but where is all that money going. Do you see where the fish and game is improving the deer herd on the Arizona strip. The only thing that is going to help the deer herds where these bucks were killed is rain. Last time I checked rain did'nt cost anything. Hunting is all about the money isn't it sremim. Is it really worth ruining the sport of hunting. With thousands of dollars going to the mule deer, there should be monster bucks running everywhere. It's called bad management.
 
40incher,
Obviously you have other issues with this. Other than the small scale of it, tell me what is different than you or me having the tag and hiring an outfitter to find a deer that we want. Does it mean we don't deserve it because somebody else found it for us? How is donating $100,000+ to hunt a deer, hire a guide, then shoot a monster make hunting all about money. If that was the ONLY way to do it, then yes it would be about the money. But any one of us could go up there and shoot deer like that EVERY year. So instead of paying $100 dollars (or however much a NR deer tag is) the guy pays 1000 times that to get a tag. It is for a good cause, no matter what you may think. And yes, if you pay that much for a single deer tag, you should get to hunt a very long season. But that doesn't really matter does it? Why don't you call G&F and ask them where all that money is going. Obviously not where you want it to go.
 
$100K isn't going to grow a single deer. Ever since they started pimping the deer, the numbers in the herd of been going down. FACT!

The Kaibab and Strip do not need any more trick tanks or government studies. It needs rain and some predator control. The G&F can't and won't do anything about either of those problems, even if they had 10x that amount.

Those tags are for one thing and one thing only, to pump up the sizable egos of grown men.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-24-06 AT 09:31PM (MST)[p]I work for a company that deals in trading large sums of money. It has nothing to do with my lifestyle or my net worth.
 
OK,
Come on folks. Deer that size are going to be found.
Regardless the deer was going to die. Whether he dies by someone who pays a few hundred dollars for a tag or the guy who pays $100,000.
It could have gone either way, heck a resident could have been lucky and shot the thing for somewhere around 100 bucks.
As long as the raffle money goes back in somewhere it's all good.
No need to whine or complain just congratulation for the harvest of an exceptional animal.
I will be honest if I had $100,000 expendable I would sure give it a go.
 
Playing the devils advocate here, When did they start pimping deer? And how does that affect the herd #'s. Just curious.. Im kinda on the fence here so i'd like more info. But as a lifelong AZ res and hunter, I saw deer tags as high as 96k in the mid 80's, then start to decline in the 90's to their current level now. Does the pattern of drought have any affect,combined with a law that stops trapping?
This is my educated answer- The money raised for wildlife by the auction tags is great, it goes to put in needed catchments and improvements for deer elk antelope etc.
Now with no water or land improvements to burn areas such as replanting rose cliff etc a few deer will grow in times like these but when we do put in those needed catchments and repair old ones the animals get water, feed etc and I would have to say that this does grow more deer or at least help them reproduce in stressful times.
Look at three bar, enclosed predator proof area for deer. numbers there mirror some midwest numbers per acre,. outside- same feed same water not so same amount of predators. Do the math. Groups such as RMEF, ADA etc etc are a good cause, raise money, people have a good time, some people make money like guides- and that is their reward if their good enough. Look man I could go on and on but I will say this Congrats to the guy who shot this buck I have seen pics of if it is real, and thanks for the donation and helping our economy and wildlife.
Bugler.
 
I do have a lot of issues about this topic and every other hunter out there should too. Especially if they want to have hunting for future generations to come. Pretty soon there won't be any deer or Wildlife to hunt. In the beginning there was man and then there was nothing left. If I was donating 100,000 dollars to the G&F I would sure as heck want to know where the money was going. If hunting isn't all about the money then why are guides making thousands and thousands of dollars to guide every year. What happened to the 1 on 1 guide service. now days its 40 on 1 or network on 1 and there are spotters on every ridge top with radios to locate and spot game. Also there are people flying around in chute planes. Do you call this fair chase hunting. The animals are constantly being pressured even in the off season. if hunting isn't all about the money then why is the G&F raffling off hunts like this, raising the tag prices, giving out more tags even when they know they are overharvesting the herds. Heck, don't be afraid to preserve the genetics or I know "STOP" overharvesting the herds. One day the genetics will just die off. People who like to hunt need to wake up and see whats going on. You don't need a degree in Wildlife biology to see what's going on.
 
I think we'd all feel a little better knowing that whoever shot this King Toad worked for it. Its hard for us to accept the fact that this guy didnt have to research, locate and then pattern this huge , magestic animal we all druel over. He paid people to do so. They led him dirctly to him and all he did was pull the trigger. I gotto say that not only the hunter should feel inferior but the guides as well. Sure its good money but where does priniple come in? These guys are hunters but they expect a guy to just come in and whack a monster without working at all? Come on- somethings wrong here. Yes, itsw their job but we all have ethics that we need to stick to. Am I alone in this?
 
Maybe it was a slam dunk, maybe not. Honestly,these hunts are not as they seem (slam duck). Some questions?? How many minutes, hours or days did the hunter and guides actually pursue the pisscutter? Did they just shoot the thing right out of the truck or quad runner? Did guide/outfitter have to shoot the buck for the hunter because the nimrod had THE FEVER so bad? Did this hunt take place on private property? Was it a high fence hunt? Did hunter use a chute plane to find or shoot the awesome buck? Did the hunter pull the trigger or squeeze the trigger? And, lastly, why didn't he shoot the bigger buck??
 
You stop to talk with another hunter and he mentions that he saw a real nice buck by Hidden Seep down in Aspen Canyon. Do you go there looking for the buck, or go back to the area you saw no deer in today?

You see a nice buck in the back of a guy's truck and ask the required question "Where'd ya get him?" Do you go check it out for the other big buck the hunter told you was with the buck he shot?

You set up camp the night before the opener. You walk out of camp 30 minutes and see a monster 250" nontypical on the edge of the trees. Do you shoot?

A forest sevice guy tells you that he's seen some deer off the 222 road. Do you check out this lead?

A guy in a bar tells you that a monster has been hanging on Big Ridge. Do you go grab your lawn chair and glass for him? If you see him that evening, would you shoot him? Probably not, since you didn't put any effort into it and someone else had located the buck for you? But if you and your hunting partner take four days to locate the buck, is that enough time to say you worked for it did it on your own?

RR
 
Hey, Wiszard I'm right there with you. Nobody has any ethics anymore. They right stories about these huge bucks there killing, but they don't ever mention the tactics used, in which the big buck was killed. What about fair chase issues, please read my 3rd post, this is how I feel about the whole subject.
 
How many of you guys have been to the strip in the last couple of months or the Kaibab if you have then you would know that they don't have enough operating trick tanks. That alot of them don't work and need to be replaced. Also you would know that the strip and the kaibab have been getting alot of rain and that pretty much every water hole is full.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-28-06 AT 07:40PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Aug-28-06 AT 07:34?PM (MST)

Dont you guys think that it will take more than just one year of rain to help, we have been in a drought for a few years. Also if you have been out there and saw the tanks that are not working. Then you can see that the 100,000 dollars for the govenors tag that you think is going for a good cause, dont do s!it. Its going to help the minnows in the Virgin river. I spend plenty of time out on the Strip, deer are few and far between. What happened is, there used to be a Wildlife population until man thought that they needed to control it.
 
One Question,

How many big to giant deer could people in here have shot with a rifle on August 1st. Most of the biggest bucks Ive ever seen have been in preseason scouting or out hiking the high country with my bow. Could have shot 90 percent with my 7 mag.

I wouldnt mind so much if the Gov tag was for any open season statewide but you had to use the weapon legal at the time of hunting.

B&C should have a special section for group hunting guys hunting july and august with a rifle and guys hunting the winter range with a rifle Ranks right up there with picking up road kill and entering it in the book
 
DD,

You just hit the nail on the head: Boone and Crockett has to redefine the definition of "FAIR CHASE"
 

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