Rifle Rut Hunts

[Coyote_chaser]

I was reading a post on the mule deer forum and a lot of people were saying that CO needs to move the late rut hunts, not have them etc. You cant issue that many tags and maintain quality etc. Yet in UT we do the same damn thing with elk!! We have the easiest weapon in the easiest season!!??!! And we have seen a HUGE decrease in quality. Instead of cutting tags I say let the long-rangers hunt in mid October and get rid of inline muzzys and let let archers/traditional muzzy guys have the rut!!! Works for AZ and NM! Is that gonna happen soon ya think??

 

[RaghornHS]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-10 AT 05:00PM (MST)[p]Montana has rut hunts with a rifle and their elk herds are doing fine...aside from those in wolf infested areas.

On the other hand, and keeping with your line of thinking, Nevada has really only one rut hunt for elk and it's with a muzzleloader (no scopes).


Raghorn Hunting Services
www.raghornhuntingservices.com
[email protected]

 

[elkun]

i say let you bow hunters --hunt with reasl

 

[desertpointbrian]

>I was reading a post on
>the mule deer forum and
>a lot of people were
>saying that CO needs to
>move the late rut hunts,
>not have them etc. You
>cant issue that many tags
>and maintain quality etc. Yet
>in UT we do the
>same damn thing with elk!!
>We have the easiest weapon
>in the easiest season!!??!! And
>we have seen a HUGE
>decrease in quality. Instead of
>cutting tags I say let
>the long-rangers hunt in mid
>October and get rid of
>inline muzzys and let let
>archers/traditional muzzy guys have the
>rut!!! Works for AZ and
>NM! Is that gonna happen
>soon ya think??


last i checked utah's elk herds were doing just fine. this post makes no sense if you want to hunt elk with a bow during the rut get the any weapon tag and use your bow.oh wait then your draw odds go down its tit for tat.quit crying about the rifle and muzzy hunters though it is getting real old disgruntled bowhunt guy. i hunt with all three weapons so i am not biast to anyone

 

[wildsage]

My daughter asked me tonight "why do bowhunters get to hunt a whole month in Colorado and rifle hunters only get 5-7 days". I just didn't have an answer to that which made sense.

Wildsage

 

[VTelkchaser]

Let me guess, you're an archery hunter?! Here's a better idea, why don't we just make Utah an archery only state?

If we are going to get rid of the in-line muzzys shouldn't we also get rid of the compound bows? Make the archery hunters use traditional equipment as well! long bows, cedar shafts and flint broadheads for everyone! The advancements in archery gear over the past 30 years is hundreds of times more than muzzle loaders.

It is a fact that percentage wise more animals are wounded and not recovered with the Bow than any other weapon. Perhaps if we could get archery hunters to stop shooting multiple animals each year the elk herds would be doing better? Just sayin.

Perhaps Utah should move the hunt dates so NO ONE gets to hunt during the rut!

 

[Founder]

There should be NO elk hunts during the rut. Many more people could enjoy the resource if we got rid of rut hunts. But, some like 100% success managed hunts, but instead of just pushing for them behind high fences where none of us care, they push for them on our public lands.

My son will probably never get to hunt elk in Utah with a rifle, all so that a handful of guys my age get to go on a hunt that UDWR says is a 100% success hunt. It's crazy!

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com

 

[MJ]

No in Utah they just write in Muley Crazy about hitting a deer and keep on hunting. Bows do not wound animals, have you not heard.

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

I'm with Founder on this one and you will NOT find a guy on this forum that likes to hunt elk more than I do. There is something about hunting screaming big bulls that in uncomparable to anything else. But Founder is spot on! Killing a bull with a rifle during the rut is easy. Yes I said easy. I've been doing it now every year since it started. If you want to kill a 300-320 bull on the Wasatch it's easy. It gets a little tougher when you set your sites a little higher but I have not EVER gone out on a day and not seen a branch antlered 6 point bull. Once they're done bugling it gets tougher to hone in on them but they are still fun to hunt. You can still have very high success rates by moving the rifle hunt out of the rut. Just not the 100% success rates that people apply for.


It's always an adventure!!!

 

[mntman]

+1 AWHOLELOTTABULL

80 - 100% success is RIDICULOUS in hunting! There is no place for it at all there is no legit argument out there to have the ability to use rifles during the rut, ZERO! pure LAZINESS!
Read my signature.


Yes I hunt elk with a rifle and a bow, hopefully one day with a muzzle loader too.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[BigPig]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-19-10 AT 11:42AM (MST)[p]+3! Aside from biology, hunting elk during the rut with a gun is damn near cheating IMO. And I'm not just a bow hunter.

 

[Elkhunter96]

+4, I have hunted elk with rifles, bows, and muzzleloaders. Hunting them during the peak of the rut with a rifle is not good for the herds. Anyone who has spent a lot of time on Limited Entry Elk units over the last ten years will tell you almost all of them are on the downward slide.

Rifle hunts have no business being where they are right now. It is just too easy with a rifle. Give some of the big bulls a chance.

As far as the longer season for bow hunts, it makes sense to most people. Even with the longer hunt dates, most LE arhery units in utah are still only around 50% success rate. Rifle tags are pushing 100% on most units even with the unexplainable short 8 day hunt. There's the simple answer you can use...

 

[elkun]

thats right us bow hunters should get to hunt 6 months out of the year,. 3 for shooting 3 for finding the lhit ones.

 

[MulePacker]

VTELKCHASER,

You seem to have some knowledge I need. Can you provide reference to the "facts" on wounding loss comparisons. I need this for an article and I will need documentation not just opinion. Please help me out.

 

[nv_hunter]

100% isnt for the sucess rate! Its for the odd that our kids wont be able to hunt the class of animals we do now. Look at the overall picture. Back when my Grandpa , dad and older brothers hunted it was better. Were in a down trend!


http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p248/nv_hunter/nevadaanimatedhelmetwd2.gif[/IMG]

 

[VTelkchaser]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-19-10 AT 03:35PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-19-10 AT 02:40?PM (MST)

MP just look at the number of "lost elk" threads on this site! That isn't proof enough? MP PM sent with a link to some historical data on archery loss percentages.

Don't get me wrong. I too hunt with all three weapons. My biggest complaint is that I cant hunt with each weapon every year and the normal archery elk hunt is too early (hot) here in UT. I also agree that hunting with ANY weapon during the rut is the advantage. But to say the archery hunters should be able to hunt the rut before the muzzle loader and rifle guys is being just as selfish in my opinion. IF anyone is truly concerned about the elk herd then they should advocate not hunting the rut at all instead of saying they should be able to hunt the rut before another group of hunters.

After 10 years I finally drew a limited entry Muzzle loader tag this year. In my opinion it is absolute BS that the Muzzle loader guys have to hunt after the Archery AND rifle hunters but hey I still had my opportunity to hunt.

Maybe instead of breaking it up into archery, rifle and muzzy they should start issuing a potion of the archery, rifle and muzzy tags for the typical archery time frame and doing the same with the rifle and muzzy time frames. That way the archery guys could hunt the rut if they wanted too. Sure they would be competing with a portion of the rifle and muzzy guys but as stated before the rut is easy so they shouldn't have too much trouble. I know I could have killed several elk with the bow during my muzzy hunt.

 

[Elkhunter96]

Nobody said the "whole rut" for archery hunters...

Here is the what I would propose, if I had any power over this...

Archery elk September 1st-24th.
Muzzy 26th-Oct 7th
Rifle Oct 9th-17th

Or close to those dates, depending on the year.

Archery hunts 24 days, muzzy 12 days and rifle 8 days

Archery would get the majority of the rut. Muzzy guys get the middle to end of the rut, still a great hunt in the rut and the elk have not been shot to crap by the rifle guys. The rifle guys can then clean up, they would still have a good success rate and kill lots of great bulls because of the nature of the units and distance rifles are effective.

It would slightly improve the archery hunt, which wasn't that bad this year since it ended on the 17th. It would improve the muzzy hunt a lot and make the rifle hunt a little more difficult, but still would be a very good hunt.

 

[VTelkchaser]

I couldnt agree more Elkhunter96 but since the DWR operates on revenue I dont see them changing the dates around any time soon.

 

[wildsage]

I am a little confused with this discussion. Are you talking about Utah??? The only elk hunting in Colorado during the rut is with archery and muzzleloader. Unless I read the stats wrong on the DOW webpage, the % kill for antlered elk by muzzleloader in Colorado for the 2009 season is 24%. That sure in h-!! isn't 80-100%.

Wildsage

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

Yep wildsage, we are talking about Utah. The only state, other than RFW hunts in Colorado, that hunts elk in the rut with a rifle.


It's always an adventure!!!

 

[mickeyelk]

I believe Nevada has one (unit 16) and Arizona has a few each with either muzzy or rifle during one of the phases of the rut. If you ever look at the draw odds you'll understand why a person wants to hunt the rut. I too want to hunt the rut once in my life with a rifle. Utah gives you that chance! Understanding why the demise of the big bull is not the rifle hunt in the rut it is the use of high tech hunting methods/equipment, hoards of scouters and what I call assistant hunters searching for these big bulls. It seems that one hunter with that tag equates to 20 people in the field assisting. I helped a guy 6 years ago on a hunt and we were camped next to two different camps that had lots and lots of hunters. We both had thought that all the hunters that were hunting this unit were in this area next to us. We later found out that one camp with over 20 people in had only one tag!!! I know, people like to help, and have fun, but! This I believe is the reason for the big bulls demise. If you had the hunter and one helper think how much more you would see! I also think of getting rid of the spike hunts and reducing the number of anterless tags will increase herd sizes. I'm not a biologist so I don't know the ramifications of what I just stated and don't know the handling capacity of the units for herd sizes. I understand that these hunts are sooooooo easy, I want one. For all of you that have experienced the rut hunt you know what I also want to feel when I get my chance. "Shoot a coyote save a deer".

 

[mntman]

EH96, those dates are way better and more realistic than UT's current set up. I actually like the way CO's dates are. Yes archery has to deal with muzzleloaders for a week but after they leave the rut really starts and archers have it to them selves again. Once that is over the elk have a 2 week (about depending on year) break to do their "thing" and then around middle of october the rifle hunts start. Elk killing in Utah is a joke for early any weapon season.

Anyone have a reason that it should be in place yet??? other than greed of course.


AWB, you can also hunt MT in the rut with a rifle if you are in wilderness areas. Not sure which ones or all of them, but I know in the "Bob" you can.


Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[BigPig]

EH96, BINGO! That just makes plain sense. Or something similar to that. Any logical person would agree that is better and more fair than the current dates. Why the DOW doesn't see it that way is baffling to me.