Monroe Mtn. In serious trouble.

Cass

Very Active Member
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aug 28 - today. I've never sat day after day after day glassing under every tree from sun up till sundown and not seen something worth shooting. This year, different story. Biggest buck I found was a 28" 4x4 I had at 30 yards and i let him walk. Just not what im looking for. Tell ya what though, i've never hunted so hard in my life and come up empty handed like this. Monroe has really taken a downfall as far as the quality of deer they are producing. Could be the lion problem, the Bear problem, The drought problem, the Winter kill problem. But im pretty sure it has something to do with bumper to bumper traffic all the way up pole canyon all 5 days of the general deer season. They blast everything that has horns and then some. Utah seriously needs to either stop clearing the road after the spring floods demolish the roads, Make the unit 3-4pnt or better for a few years, or just simply. Shut the whole unit off for 5 years and make it premium limited entry afterwards. I know that place can produce the monsters like the past. It just needs to heal it's massively gaping wound. Just my personal opinion on the obliteration of a great deer herd. I mean talk to the locals or anyone whos hunted monroes s. end back in the past. The mountain has been literally exterminated. It's discusting and my reason for saying Goodbye to Utah Hunting. Arizona, HERE I COME!

-Cass
 
c'ASS!!!

28" 4 POINT,BAAAAAAAAANG!!!

I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR BUT A 28" BUCK ON AN OPEN UNIT IS A TROPHY IN UTAH!!!

YOU MENTIONED SOME PROBLEMS BUT WHAT THE HELL HAS THE UTAH BEAR GOT TO DO WITH THE DOWNFALL OF MULE DEER???

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING IF A 28"ER IS A PISSCUTTER I'D STAY IN NEVADA,I KNOW FIRST HAND THERE ARE SOME NON-PISSCUTTER TYPE ANIMALS LEFT DOWN THERE!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-13-06 AT 09:01PM (MST)[p]BOBCATLIPS.....Bears eat fawns like popcorn.......I have to go to the bathroom now.....thank's Kitty.
rm
 
JACKMASTER!!!

THE RIGHT KIND OF BEARS DO!!!

BUT YOU'RE COMPLETELY BRAINDAMAGED(WELL WE ALREADY KNEW THAT!!!) IF YOU THINK THEY KILL ALOT OF FAWNS IN UTARD!!!

YOU KALI BOYS HAVE BEEN WATCHING TOO MANY OF YOUR PET LIONS EAT & NOW YOU THINK THE BEARS ARE TAKING THE DEER HERD DOWN,WRONG!!!

UTAH BEARS EAT FAWNS/DEER AFTER THEY DIED OF SOMETHING ELSE,WHEN THEY GET STINKY,SURE THE BEARS EAT THEM,WAKE THE HELL UP!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WAITING FOR MY NEXT WILDLIFE LESSON FROM A KALI PRO!!!
 
Bess,

Didn't I tell you a few of my complaints of living in this hole of a state?

Well, if I didn't read the Jacks post again! You see, this is the mentality I deal with on a daily basis here in the state of non-opportunity.

Yeah, Utah bears have eaten and destroyed the deer herd!! I am sure glad someone from Kalifornia told me this.

Heck, I thought it was from loss of habitat, over hunting.... I didn't even know there was a bear in Utah!!!

But it sounds like they are everywhere! I can only imagine how many 400" bulls they have killed.

The only bobcat thinking Jack has been reading to many SFW news letters!!!!!!
 
KALI-CAT!!!

ON SECOND THOUGHT I MIGHT OF STUCK MY PAW IN MY MOUTH!!!

I'VE OFTEN WONDERED WHAT THE HELL KILLED ALL THE DEER,NOW ITS COMMING TO ME!!!

FRICKEN BEARS,MUST BE MILLIONS OF THEM!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING JACKMASTER MIGHT BE WATCHING TOO MANY ALASKAN VIDEOS!!!
 
Yes,there are bears in Utah and yes they do kill fawns.Are they the main reason for the decline in that deer population. No, thats not what he said....Personally, I think you need to grow up
and quit insulting everyone.Maybe you need to be pulled off this forum for a while,I think a lot of us are getting tired of your mouth...
 
HEY BULLCRY!!!

NEVER SAID IT NEVER FRICKEN HAPPENED!!!

I DO BELIEVE THERES A BETTER EXCUSE FOR POOR DEER HERDS THAN BEARS EATING THEM!!!

PERSONALLY I THINK YOU BETTER WAKE THE HELL UP!!!

I SAY WE SETTLE IT OFF M.M.!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WAITING FOR YOU NEXT SMART REPLY!!!
 
??? FOR HoundDawgJr!!!

I THINK WE'LL POLL HoundDawgJr ON THIS ONE!!!

NOT SAYING IT NEVER HAPPENS!!!

BUT NOT VERY DAMN OFTEN!!!

HOW BOUT IT HoundDawg,IN YOUR MILLIONS OF MILES OF HOUNDING,HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU SEEN WHERE A UTAH BLACK BEAR HAS KILLED A FAWN/DEER TO EAT THE FRESH RED MEAT???

THE ONLY bobcat THAT MIGHT OF BEEN BORN LATE BUT IT SURE AS HELL WASN'T LAST NIGHT!!!
 
RE: ??? FOR HoundDawgJr!!!

Bessy,

This is what happened. You see in the 50's and 60's there were no bears or cougars in Utah. Then, all the liberals in BC and Saskachewan transplanted all of their bears and cougars to Utah.

I guess you could call it a role reversal! Now look at them! 200" deer everywhere.

The only bobcat who can't spell Sascachewan!!!!!!!!!
 
Cass-

Amen! I personally think they should go spike only for a few years on that unit. The genetics down there is horrible, the deer herd is torched! Why not treat some of these units like L.E. elk units. Create LE units, but allow spikes to be killed. For the deer herd this would great. Spikes are bad genetics, so any good genetics would be allowed to walk. Something needs to change on hills like Monroe- pathetic.

Father in law talking this year think it will be our last too. Mostly just the pressure of the archery hunt alone!

ODDNUT1
Kirt C.
Hunt Odds.com
 
RE: ??? FOR HoundDawgJr!!!

I am a local in the Monroe area and I have to say that I can't believe the bear problem is the cause for the deer decline. I think it can be tied in to a number of different reasons, but the bear theory is pretty thin. I know out of the last 4 or 5 guys who have drawn a bear permit on the Monroe, only one of them even got a shot at a bear that I am aware of. I was one of those drawn and there is not an overabundance of bears on this unit in my opinion. The government trapper killed a problem bear a day or two before my hunt that year, and I don't think another bear has been harvested since.
 
I've been hunting and taking scouting trips to southern/central utah for over 15 years and never once have seen any sign of bear or a bear itself.
 
There are quite a few bears around, but the Monroe is not one of the units with a high bear concentration. They are just so secretive and most go nocturnal as soon as there is a sign of humans in the area..
People would probably freak if they knew just how many bears were around and where they are. I took one right above the lodge at Fishlake a few years ago on the 8th of July. It was frequenting the summer cabin areas and I was given permission to hunt it as it was considered a problem bear and a danger to the people spending time at the lake.
 
I think RACKMASTER doesn't know his bear from his coyote. I think the only way your going to cool off the BIG KITTY is to neuter his booty. Like I said before he gets my vote for the class clown of MM. I can't imagine this place without him. Plus He's my fellow NASCAR junky. All Cats are a little odd, you just have to learn to live with them. Long live the KITTY(after his trip to the Vet)LOL.
 
I guess what I wanted to say was "giving the chance" bears
"would" eat fawns like popcorn........

"bathroom run".

"the only jackmaster whos thinking listening to BOBCATBESS
is like eatting way under cooked chicken"

Just keeping BOBCATBESS(MM class clown is an ugly lable) honest!
 
TOUGHEN UP JACKMASTER!!!

"GIVEN THE CHANCE"!!!

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???

JUST ABOUT ANY PLACE I KNOW THAT BEARS LIVE THE ELK & DEER DO TO!!!

IF YOU AIN'T TOUGH ENOUGH TO EAT RAW CHICKEN YOU'D BETTER STOP & SEE THAT GAL IN KANAB AGAIN!!!

THE ONLY bobcat NOT BASHING ON c'ASS,HE HIT SEVERAL REASONS WHY THE UNIT IS SUFFERING & WAS MAN ENOUGH TO LET THE ONLY DECENT BUCK HE SEEN WALK,HOW MANY UTARDS WOULD OF LET A 28" BUCK WALK???(ANSWERS PLEASE!!!)
 
Cass,

I do not understand the posts that follow your gripe. It seems people missed your point,that the deer herd is suffering. Some people picked bear out as one of the potential problems and made that the issue. Some of us undertsnd that you pointed out that you were not sure what the problem was and just listed some ideas.

Thanks for the post.
 
There was a point to this post right?......Oh yeah, I almost forgot what it was...Good job on letting that buck walk Cass, and I couldn't agree with you more. I think the first step in solving the problem IS to shut the hunt down there for a few, then open it up as a 3 point or better unit. I'll agree with you Cass...I'm not scared.
 
If your passing up 28" buck on Monroe Mountain you will probably want to look elsewhere to find what your looking for. Monroe Mountain is an average general season unit. The deer herds are down everywhere in Utah.
 
Good post Cass, you are right the Deer Herd is suffering on Monroe. Lots of factors just like you pointed out.
 
My family has hunted there since the 50's . I have stopped going there the last 7 or 8 years due to the poor deer herd . They do need to shut it down for a while.

Andy
 
Kills all lions, all bear and yotes too! Ship 70% of the elk to the farm in Idaho! Long live the Mulie!

FullCry, right there with about the clown.
 
Shut it down just like they did for the Bookcliff area.
It would be better if the shut down 1/4 of the state for 3 years then another 1/4 and then another until they have the units back up to where they should be I would take a year off out of every 4 to see more big Bucks.

Just remember Opinions are like @ssholes everyone has one.
Just some show theirs more often.
 
My family has hunted Monroe for years, infact we have a cabin up there. The hunt was actually starting to improve until 2 years ago when we got hit with that early snow storm--it brought everything down and it sounded like WW III in the foot hills opening weekend of the rifle hunt. I'm sure other areas were effected just the same, but I personally saw a slaughterfest 2 years ago.

Regarding the bear situation--I've been going up on that mountain ever since I can remember, I'm now 30 and have never seen any sign of a bear up there, plenty of lions and yotes though. I'm not saying that they're not up there, I'm sure there are a few.

I think it's a combination of several years of drout, growing population of preditors, to much competition from the growing elk herd, not managed efficiently--I'm a big advocate of breaking the state into much smaller regions.
 
Shutting down Monroe Mtn won't do any good until they increase the number of cougar tags. Thats not going to happen until they get done with their cougar study. The place is crawling with cats.

As much as I like the elk they are also having an effect. 25 years ago you never seen an elk up there. (I know they don't compete with deer)

There are ATV's and trails everywhere. The deer can't get away from them.

Non-stop hunting pressure from August to November has not helped either.

Bears are not an issue there are very few up there. Habitat is not an issue we have a ton of it here. Our winters have been mild the last few years in the winter ranges so I doubt winter kill is a factor.

In my opinion the quick fix is increase lion tags and go to smaller units. You have to be able to control the number of hunters on each unit. That also includes no more state wide archery tags.

I don't think things are as bad as everyone thinks. I remember hearing the same thing in 2004 and then we got a 2' snow storm and the bucks came out of no where. I do agree that we need to start doing something or it will be as bad as it sounds.

Just a local Utards opinion for what it's worth.
 
One of the big reasons I passed on the buck was simply, how long I hunted, how hard i hunted and to only see 1 it just wasn't worth it to the mountain to take it off the mountain too. Let him breed if he can make it through the season. if not then i was stupid to let him walk.


-Cass
 
Cass, did you see the big bull down there again this year?
I didn't see anything come off of there last year that was super huge, so I'm hoping he is still wandering around in the deep canyons..
 
I ran across two monster bulls, a gorgeous 7x7 down in the quakes below that huge bald face on the kingston side. Watched him all day long, where he bed, when he got back up, moved to the other side of the mountain and bedded again. Then I came across a monstrous 6x6 down in hells hole.


-Cass
 
"Biggest buck I found was a 28" 4x4 I had at 30 yards and i let him walk. Just not what im looking for."


Well, its been a while since I have seen any posts by CASS, but its reasuring to see that he hasn't changed much.

Where have you been CASS? Off winning the Iraq war single handedly or possibly a mission to space?

A high octane guy like you doesn't come around too often, so I cherish the time that you are here wowing us all with your tales.

BTW, did you happen to snap any pictures of that scrawny 28 inch buck that you passed up? Just wondering.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-14-06 AT 06:56PM (MST)[p]Just keep em comin. No i didn't take a picture. Why, nothing in utah in my opinion worth shooting with a camera anymore. Say what you want just knock the bashing off. It got old about 5 years ago.


-Cass
 
BULLCRY!!!

Moosie TAUGHT ME THIS ONE!!!

BITE ME BEACH!!!

THE ONLY bobcat OFFERING TO SETTLE IT OFF OF M.M.,INSTEAD YOU'LL PRIOBABLY TURN ME INTO FOUNDER AGAIN!!!
 
c'ASS!!!

NOT TRYING TO STIR IT WITH YOU!!!

BUT IF SOMEBODY IS BLAMING THE BEARS FOR UTAHS PISS POOR DEER HERD CONDITION THEY'RE JOSHIN YOU & ARE FLAT ASS WRONG,DID YOU HEAR ME BULLCRY???

OF COURSE BULLCRY IS GONNA CRY WOLF!!!

YOU MENTIONED SEVERAL OF THE REASONS THE UTAH HERD IS IN TROUBLE!!!

YOU'VE SEEN IT WITH YOUR OWN EYES!!!

YOU KNOW WHAT IT USED TO BE!!!

YOU KNOW WHAT IT CAN BE!!!

AND YOU WHAT IT IS TODAY!!!

I AGREE,SEVERAL PLACES IN TROUBLE IN UTAH AS FAR AS THE DEER GO!!!

THE ONLY bobcat HOPEING THE BUCK MAKES IT,THATS BOUND TO MAKE SOMEBODY MAD!!!
 
I dont remember anyone totally blaming the bears.It was mentioned as a possibility...Bobcat, are you the kid who was on here a while back and said he was a lawyer.And drew a sheep tag?
I hope you get pulled off this site.We dont need your games or insults.
 
BULLCRY!!!

YOU'RE PISSED BECAUSE I SAID IT AIN'T THE DAMN BEARS KILLING THE DEER HERD OFF IN UTAH!!!

NEVER SAID A BEAR WOULD NEVER TAKE A FAWN,I SAID IT WOULD BE DAMN RARE!!!

YOU'D BETTER TOUGHEN UP A BIT!!!

IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE ANYTHING I'VE SAID YOU'RE IN TROUBLE!!!

AGAIN,YOU'VE GOT ME MIXED UP WITH SOMEBODY I AIN'T!!!

I'M NOT A RICH LAWYER!!!

I DIDN'T DRAW A SHEEP TAG!!!

I'D LIKE TO KNOW YOUR OPPINION ON HOW MANY FAWNS/DEER ARE ACTUALLY KILLED BY UTAH BEARS IN A YEAR???

THIS AIN'T CANADA OR ALASKA,YES IN PLACES & DIFFERENT BEARS THEY DO TAKE THEIR TOLL ON WILDLIFE,BUT HERE IN UTAH,HOW MANY YOU THINK WE'RE LOSING???

THE ONLY bobcat WILLING TO SETTLE IT OFF M.M.!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-14-06 AT 09:28PM (MST)[p]By the bears i have ran and seen harvested,I dont think very many fawns are killed by bears in Utah.We dont have a big enough bear population to impact it like that...Further,you took what the man said and went off on a tangent.He just mention it as a possibility.My point is, im old enough son i dont have to toughen up.I came onto this site to meet and learn from other hunters, ways they may do things different than i.There are some pretty top hunters on here if you would listen to them.I guess i dont have the tolerence to wipe some know it all kids nose anymore...
 
Hi Cass, your still an icon in my book & always will be.
I have thought you were previously overly optimistic about the mt, now we agree on the place. Like others have mentioned, I was raised hunting it.
We both know that a smattering of bucks that are very good at their trade will become great deer up there & I think that holds true for anywhere.
I disagree that it should be closed or considered pliable to produce trophy quality. It simply lacks too many components necessary to raise trophy class bucks on a consistent basis.
I sat in a tree stand wed. & watched a large elk herd commandeer a water hole for 2 hours till I left, while several deer waited patiently for an opportunity to drink. The place is infested with elk & they punk the deer off of water. I'm sure some dipa$$ was probably watching from a distance thinking, "wow those deer & elk are sure very friendly with each other(not).
The other flaw & why so many of us have had great times up there is that it is so accessible & on the majority of it there are roads everywhere since the majority has such a large flat top where hunters for years have made roads everywhere while retrieving animals.
So take your kids soon as you make em & have a great time, but just don't bring them under the pretense, they'll see or get to stalk monster muleys.
 
BULLCRY!!!

YOU WERE QUICK TO LET ME KNOW THAT UTAH BEARS DO KILL UTAH FAWNS!!!

I'VE ASKED SEVERAL TIMES AS TO HOW MANY YOU THINK WE'RE LOSING TO THE GUTTER HOGS???

YA,YOU MIGHT SAY I GET A LITTLE PISSED WHEN SOMETHING TAKES BLAME THAT AIN'T THE REASON FOR THE HERDS BEING IN POOR SHAPE!!!

FURTHER MORE,ME & c'ASS GO BACK A FEW YEARS,I'M NOT BASHING THE GUY,I USED TO CALL HIM A KID BUT HE TURNED 21 NOT TO LONG AGO & HE'S SMART ENOUGH TO SEE THE UTAH DEER HERD IS IN TROUBLE!!!

c'ASS WAS MAD ENOUGH AT ME ONE TIME HE WAS GONNA DRIVE TO ALTAMONT TO SETTLE IT,I WAS RAZZING HIM & HE TOOK IT SERIOUS!!!

I'M NOT BASHING c'ASS,JUST LETTING HIM KNOW THAT BEARS ARE NOT MUCH OF A THREAT ON THE UTAH DEER HERD!!!

I'M NOT SAYING BEARS DON'T EAT DEER,I'M SAYING THEY DON'T KILL VERY MANY DEER,NOT ENOUGH TO WORRY ABOUT!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THAT ADMITS I WAS BORN LATE,BUT IT SURE AS HELL WASN'T LAST NIGHT!!!
 
Getting off of the subject again, sorry Cass.

I am not sure if Bear numbers in Utah are high enough to heavily impact Deer numbers, but they DO eat fawns actively.
Last year on Boulder Mountain I counted 4 different Bear dung piles with Tiny Hoofs in them. (that had to hurt coming out)

Also Idaho studied the impact of Bears on Fawns and said this:

"A study suggested that bear predation on newborn fawns could be a significant factor affecting annual recruitment. Bear predation also accounted for 49% of 21 radio-collared fawn mortalities"

The study goes on to say that it differs area to area, it is most likely a learned behavior.

Take Care.
 
I remember bowhunt's post from last year when he said he saw tiny hooves in the bear scat, very interesting.

Since then I caught a program about Yellowstone that documented that the bears (Grizzly and Black) know just when and where the elk and deer bare their young each year; they show up for the feast. They look forward to it like a salmon run, except the salmon are calves and fawns. Them babies are easy pickens.

It's just one of those facts of life that predators are smart shoppers and they go where the food is on sale. I don't see any reason why bears on Monroe would be an exception? Just another piece of a very complicated puzzle for our beloved mule deer.

Just googled up this article about bears and whitetail fawns.

http://www.aginfo.psu.edu/PSA/fw2003/fawns.html
 
Here is another one.
"Recent studies have confirmed that both black bears and grizzlies can be persistent predators of hoofed mammals. For example, black bears killed 25 of 53 radioed elk calves in Idaho and grizzlies killed at least 27 of 60 radioed moose calves in the southern Yukon. Individual bears deliberately search for these newborn ungulates. In a study in Banff National Park, grizzlies were found to hunt elk calves in late May and early June. In another study near Fort McMurray, at least 3 of 8 radioed moose calves were killed by black bears"
Seems like they are better killers than we give credit...but again maybe the Utah Bear numbers are not high enough to matter.
 
Just ask Blanding_Boy about fawn hooves in bear scat. Bears have, do, and will continue to eat fawns as they find them. It may be few or significant, but it is a predation factor in fawn recruitment. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to understand that bears eat fawns.

Whether or not bears contribute to the lack of deer on Monroe I can't say. I can say that there are more ATVs and humans on that mountain ever day of the year now than there were 10 years ago. If you have a set of scales and you put humans on top of elk on top of cougars on top of coyotes on top of bears on one side and deer on the other, who looses? The deer can never come back on these units with the extreme pressures from other sources.
 
We tend to hunt after the first week, and I must agree, Monroe has been in a declining state for several years now. Even the off the path canyons are not producing many mature deer. I'd vote for a 3 point restriction for a while as they did many years ago, even just to get a few good bucks breading again.
 

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