Depredation deer hunt. Nevada.

fatrooster

fatrooster

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It seems that NDOW is issuing 1,000 doe mule deer tags for area 6 due to fires and expected winter starvation due to habitat loss of feed. Residents are eligible for two tags on a first come first serve basis. Tags go on sale today 10-11-06 until 10-30-06 or until they sell out. fatrooster.
 
Update on tag sales. I don't know what time these tags went on sale but I do know that they were sold out at 8:20 a.m. this morning. Wow, I can't believe they went so fast! fatrooster.
 
Interesting article...You have to love the comments that people make. "For hunters who use a bow and arrow, it is a slow death for the animal," Ruiz said. "That's really very cruel." *Sigh*
 
Death by bow and arrow would be a cruel death as stated by Ruiz but death by starvation is ok with her I guess. Just another narrow minded spouting off what she really doesn
t know anything about. fatrooster.
 
My girlfriend and I got 4 tags under this hunt this morning...This will be her first hunt for deer. She just got her license a few months ago. I also have a 51 buck tag, so I will be busy....Looking forward to a lot of deer meat....!
 
Ok I'm not up to speed on this but is there no chance that a feeding program in the right places at the right time might be better than a deer genocide program? I've seen hunters pitch in and handle emergency feeding and the funding for it here before. maybe there's no other way but the deer in that area will be years coming back you can count on that.
 
We ended up with 5 tags. Didn't think we got any because the computers were slow and kept crashing, but had some charges on the card.
 
Huntindude,

I can understand your concern, but the problem is the habitat is gone and will be for a few years. The news I heard on the radio last month was that over 1 million acres were burned in Elko County alone and that some of the fires were still going. If they gave out 1,000 depredation tags - that is 1 deer per 1,000 acres of burn. It really will be best to cut the herd down to what the land can sustain, and let the herd grow as the feed naturally becomes available.
 
I see everyones concerns, but why cant the fish and game trap these deer and transplant them in areas where there is habitat and lower deer populations, i just dont see the point of killing the herd off like this, it will be years before this area will come back with the population to hunt, the fish and game, years back gave out doe tags in different ares of southern nevada and it still has not come back all the way. This is just my concern and the locals in this area it should be also.
 
To trap and relocate this many deer would be very costly and doubt if the F&G have that kind of manpower and money to do as you suggested. That's my view point anyway.

Brian
 
I am not sure of the source, but I belive I once heard that F&G has a tough time transplanting deer because they go into shock fairly esy and end up dying alot of the time.
 
You guys may be right but I can tell you the winter of 92-93 wiped the deer out in eastern Oregon and we never got them back. sure we have cats and all the other problems but I'd hate to see that happen anywhere else. I hope this really is the only way and not just the easy way.
 
I don't think you guys read the article from NDOW very good. The area is so burned up that it can only sustain about 6000 deer. Killing off 1000 does in an area that typically hold about 15000 deer is a drop in the pan. The deer herd won't be wiped out.
Fly
 
OK, knock yourselves out I don't hunt there anyway. they're just guessing and who knows what kind of winter we'll have . if NDOW has a feeding plan for the deer that will be left and not just tell you more need to be shot you might be ok. I hope you don't look back 15 years from now with no deer and say I wish back in 2006....
 
Area 6 used to be one of the best mule deer area's in the country. My family has hunted that area since the late 1970's and taken several bucks over the "30" inch mark. It saddens me to see what it has become. Although fires are a major cause of the areas decline NDOW's mismanagement is also a major factor. This depredation hunt will only further help the decline of deer in the area. If hunters were to shoot only the weak or sick deer it may be of some use but odds are many of the healthiest does will be shot. Then not only will we have 1000 healthy deer dead but all the sick and weak will die during the winter too, whereas at least some of those healthier deer may have made it. This only compounds the problem. Now its true that there is only so much winter range left unburnt. But what i dont understand is why wont NDOW feed some of those deer. I know other states have programs like that. I definitely dont have the answers to this problem. It pains me to say that this just looks like another step in driving the deer in this area to "extinction".
 
Also in respnse to the NDOW article. The area USED to hold between 30000 and 15000 deer. It hasnt held 15000 deer in the last 6 to 7 years. Im not sure what the real estimate of deer in the area actually is but im sure its only half that at most. Meaning those 1000 tags will take quite a chunk out of the existing herd. If you want an idea of how few deer actually inhabit the area just look at how few tags have been allocated over the last couple of years.
 
"Why doesn't NDOW feed the deer?" First of all they haven't got the money. I'm sorry, feeding that many deer is going to be expensive and NDOW doesn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. Secondly artificially supporting numbers of game animals above what their carrying capacity is is never a good idea. Cite all the states you want that have feeding programs. It's never a good idea. What happens someday when you have built and sustained a population of deer based solely on the artificial feeding program and the funding or political appetite for it disappears? Even more deer starve. A lot of those deer in area 6 are going to die whether it's by starvation or shooting. Whether it's now or later. Dead is dead.

"Why don't they transplant them to areas where the deer herds are down?". Where? The areas where deer herds are down have some other problem causing it. It isn't just that the deer moved. There is something major wrong with the habitat or some other factor. Throwing some warm bodies out there isn't going to fix it. It just creates a put-and-take situation.

"Although fires are a major cause of the areas decline NDOW's mismanagement is also a major factor." Give me some specifics here how the "mismanagement" of the herd has lead to the decline as opposed to thousands and thousands of acres being destroyed by fires and mining and climatic changes. I want to hear how you would have managed them differently. Maybe you would not have offered so many tags so your family would not have killed those thirty inchers. That way there might have been even more deer to be killed now. A couple of years ago the winter was so harsh and the feed so poor that adult deer were dying. They found dozens and dozens of winter-killed adults. Adults don't winter-kill in large numbers until the habitat is in a very bad state. Is that NDOW's fault? Maybe. Maybe they should have allowed hunters to kill even more of them in previous years.

You say you don't have the answers but I think saying the herd has been mismanaged and then saying you don't have the answers is a cop out. How do you know there is a management problem if you don't have an answer?

Sorry, I don't mean to be a jerk. So many people love to bag on NDOW and say they mismanage and often times it's just because they heard that from Grampa, Dad or Uncle Joe for their entire life. They really don't have a solution. Just a gripe. It's a sad situation up there. But it's too late to sit around and theorize how things should have been done or why they don't do this or that. That was some beautiful deer country once. A real shame.
 
>"Why doesn't NDOW feed the deer?"
>First of all they haven't
>got the money. I'm sorry,
>feeding that many deer is
>going to be expensive and
>NDOW doesn't have a pot
>to piss in or a
>window to throw it out
>of. Secondly artificially supporting
>numbers of game animals above
>what their carrying capacity is
>is never a good idea.
>Cite all the states you
>want that have feeding programs.
>It's never a good idea.
>What happens someday when you
>have built and sustained a
>population of deer based solely
>on the artificial feeding program
>and the funding or political
>appetite for it disappears? Even
>more deer starve. A lot
>of those deer in area
>6 are going to die
>whether it's by starvation or
>shooting. Whether it's now or
>later. Dead is dead.
>
>"Why don't they transplant them to
>areas where the deer herds
>are down?". Where? The areas
>where deer herds are down
>have some other problem causing
>it. It isn't just that
>the deer moved. There is
>something major wrong with the
>habitat or some other factor.
>Throwing some warm bodies out
>there isn't going to fix
>it. It just creates a
>put-and-take situation.
>
>"Although fires are a major cause
>of the areas decline NDOW's
>mismanagement is also a major
>factor." Give me some specifics
>here how the "mismanagement" of
>the herd has lead to
>the decline as opposed to
>thousands and thousands of acres
>being destroyed by fires and
>mining and climatic changes. I
>want to hear how you
>would have managed them differently.
>Maybe you would not have
>offered so many tags so
>your family would not have
>killed those thirty inchers. That
>way there might have been
>even more deer to be
>killed now. A couple of
>years ago the winter was
>so harsh and the feed
>so poor that adult deer
>were dying. They found dozens
>and dozens of winter-killed adults.
>Adults don't winter-kill in large
>numbers until the habitat is
>in a very bad state.
>Is that NDOW's fault? Maybe.
>Maybe they should have allowed
>hunters to kill even more
>of them in previous years.
>
>
>You say you don't have the
>answers but I think saying
>the herd has been mismanaged
>and then saying you don't
>have the answers is a
>cop out. How do you
>know there is a management
>problem if you don't have
>an answer?
>
>Sorry, I don't mean to be
>a jerk. So many people
>love to bag on NDOW
>and say they mismanage and
>often times it's just because
>they heard that from Grampa,
>Dad or Uncle Joe for
>their entire life. They really
>don't have a solution. Just
>a gripe. It's a sad
>situation up there. But it's
>too late to sit around
>and theorize how things should
>have been done or why
>they don't do this or
>that. That was some beautiful
>deer country once. A real
>shame.
 
According to ndow, these millions of acres of burn are on prime winter range. Can someone explain to me why when these deer leave summer range and go to this burned winter range with nothing to eat, that they are going to just stay there and die?
Are deer that dumb? Wouldn't they just keep on moving down and across the country until they find suitable cover and feed?
 
I think it's time the sportsman and the wildlife depts. of all states start demanding of the BLM habitat improvements. I remember back in the 60's and 70's when alot of chaining of pinion/juniper encroachment was done to improve rangeland. It was probably done for improved grazing for cattle, but nonetheless it improved deer country. Now it's time to do it for the deer before we lose them all together. They know browse
need disturbance to regenerate and start a new cycle. Why don't they do it?
 
Everyone has great ideas, but other states do have feeding programs and they do work, if ndow doesnt have the money that other states do and they are raiseing the price of the tags and makeing you buy a stamp for everything you hunt, then where does all the money go. On another hand there are areas with lower deer counts and its not the habitat, it was the doe tags a few years ago, ndow hammered 2 areas with doe tags a few years back, and then a few years later was studying why the deer counts were down, they then went to blaming the lions, yes lions do kill deer, but the number one preditor against the deer is ndow. I just think that they should wait a little while and see how everything goes with the deer, than just predict the future. I would think you could have a hunt anytime.
 
"when these deer leave the summer range and go to thier burned winter range with nothing to eat, that they are going to just stay there and die".....Many deer will just stay there. Deer are very traditional, they use the same seasonal ranges each year and are reluctant to pioneer new areas. Telemtry studies thru out the west have proven this. Some deer that winter close to edges of the burn may move some and find some forage but there will already be deer wintering there so you are just dumping more deer in an already used wintering range.

A lot of the habitat improvement projscts that were able to be done in the 60's and 70's have been blocked by lawsuits from th enviro preservationists.

from the "Heartland of Wyoming"
 
here in wyoming we need a hunt like that for rabbits. we have fur covered hiways and in area 158 the range looks way over grazed but its not the stock its the rabbits and the lack of rain.
in what we call the high contry pasture the deer look to be starving and last winter they had a hard die off in febuary.
what i can't figure out is its hitting does hard but the bucks look healthy.
even the horses are looking poor.
 
NV,
No deer aren't dumb. Why don't you go and direct them to the green pastures. Think about it. 1,000,000 acres burned that is 1562 square miles. How far have you ever walked to find something to eat? We saw a similar situation in New Orleans. People started walking out of town only to find they were going the wrong way. Nobody knew where to go and people died trying to walk out of town.

A Utah game biologist told me that his studies in the early 90's showed that the Utah deer herd couldn't support a hard winter and that he though we should have killed 5,000 does. Nobody could stomache that thought and his proposal was ignored. The winter of 92-93 killed 90% of the herd. Shoot the does. Put them on the dinner table and work to rebuild the habitat. The herd will come back. Thank the F&G for the tags and blame the fires for the kill off. This is just how nature works.
ci
 
smellybuck,
you make it sound like the fires burned in 1 square block. go to the NDOW website and click on the link showing Elko county
fire map. You'll see that that million acres is spread out.
Deer travel up to a hundred miles from summer to winter range.
or more. what's another 20 miles in one direction or another to them. nothing.
now I would agree with the post that says if they travel to "greener pastures" they would be moving in on other deer's
winter range and it might not support all the deer.
I've seen some of the burned area in Elko county north of Carlin
right now some of it looks like moonscape. I'm talking no vegatation. I can't see a deer coming there and standing in the dirt waiting to die.
 
It sounds like NVdrhntr is pretty much accurate with everything that has been said. Elko County has been devastated by fires for years. Between the fires of 1999 and 2006 deer winter range has pretty much been smoked. "Cheatgrass" has taken over most of the sites that have been burned in the recent years, so feeding these deer would have to continue until the cheatgrass problem is taken care of, and that problem is not going away. Deer would have to be feed for years and years. Hunters and Sportsman?s are seeing mule deer habitat converting into exotic vegetative habitats that are not capable of supporting mule deer anymore. Cheatgrass came with pioneering the west. The question is "What do can be done to help this problem?" Some Ideas have been tossed out, but I feel they are not the solution.
 
It is hard to hear about these things taking place, and I don't know that there are any absolute answers. I know we seen a huge winter kill in SE Idaho about 10 years ago, and after that there were many hunting groups and alot of scout and church groups that helped to plant winter ranges with bitterbrush, deerbrush, and other browse plants that help the deer. This may not have totally solved the problem, but it did a whole lot more than blaming it all on everyone else. I personally have never seen where arguing and blaming ever helped anything.
 

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