ARMCHAIR SCOUTING

BLooDTRaCKeR

Very Active Member
Messages
2,743
"Hello all, I purchased an elk tag but don't know what to do with it, can somebody please give me a location to fill my tag"???

This seems to be the norm now a days due to the deer tags selling out so quick, seems like more an more people are taking whatever tag they can get and doing the "lazy boy" method to get the job done.

Whatever happened to good old scouting and topo maps?? Have we become that lazy that we cannot put forth any effort at all in the sport we love?

I remember quite well when my dad and I decided our usual elk hunting spot was getting too crowded. We packed up for a week the following fall and went looking for a new hunting spot. We found one and have killed 7 out of the eight years because we put the time and effort into finding an area and got to know the habits of the elk before and during the hunt. I have kept a hunting journal of all events that contributed to the success of the hunt so that I can be better prepared the following year.

I just do not understand the mentality of some people and why they resort to the "free handout" method. Especially when there is still alot of time to go out and scout before the general season opens????

Thoughts?
 
When I drew my LE elk tag last fall I did a lot of research before getting out. I searched these forums back 10 years for info on the unit and sent PMs to the guys that seemed to know it well. I then emailed back and forth with them on their opinions on different areas. I took one guy who happened to be a family friend and a MM poster down on a scouting trip and his knowledge proved invaluable. I believe that tips from him and others helped me be successful. Could I have done it alone? Sure, but I was miles ahead before hitting the hills due to advanced research.......

NOW, talking about GENERAL OTC tags.....c'mon guys, half the fun of these hunts is exploring and learning new areas. Good producing areas in a general area are worth their weight in gold. When someone can buy a tag every year why would they tell you where to go? You have to assume that they aren't hunting there, and that they have probably told tons of people the same they are telling you...and any info on this site is seen by hundreds of hunters every day. What gets me is people asking how to find spike elk......go to a LE unit and find the damn elk! The spikes are with the cows, good hell, just ask for a free guide.


This may make me a hypocrite, but there are very few reasons to ask for help on a general hunt..... I even get annoyed with the "I drew manti, where do I go?" threads (from someone with 1 post count who has obviously joined just for their personal gain and will not post again most likely). Take the time and effort to research first and then have the courtesy to reach out personally to those with experience and you will get a much better response.


This site is about hunters helping hunters, and I have been on BOTH ends, but some people are just LAZY




-----------------------------------------------
http://andymansavage.blogspot.com/
 
I find a unit I know or want to know and hunt ,apply,draw and hunt. I get info fed to me alot by those who are looking for info on the areas I know. I get great tips on where the elk are,but I usually avoid those areas,because they are known.I find where the bird-dogs will drive them to me,or just where I can avoid folks and where elk could be.It's called Hunting,not Shopping. I've made some good friends on this and another forum and shared alot of info with some, but not all folks.
 
Hasn't there been like 7 of these threads in the last couple of months??? It makes for a fun read with hornkiller, topgun, and hoss all gettin worked up over it.......

littlebeaver.jpg
 
Leave my friggin name out of this because i've probably helped more people on this site since I joined last December than you can count to, LOL!!!
 
No i get worked up when they start out

"well i been a long time looker BUT now i finally drew a tag can i get some honey holes"


Its a free country and can get pissed if i want!
They dont have to listen to what i have to say either.

Thats why i like this site freedom of saying whatever i want unless it has to do with mossback and then his buddies on here delete it!

Not mad at you one bit berry.




hornkiller.jpg
 
"I'm not looking for any honey holes" is the one that always gets me laughing.

As for the LE areas, if I have something to share then I will as the chances of me ever getting to hunt one again before the elk that are alive there now are dead as so slim it can't hurt.

BUT good luck on the general units. I have help a couple of guys out for their kids youth hunts and so far it hasn't come back to bite me on general hunts.
 
Im on the fence with this subject. On one hand, I have been burned by giving guys spots and having them ruined as a result. I also have a problem with guys living 20 minutes from decent hunting, but they still call me three days before opening day asking where they should go. On the other hand though, I was able to have helped three guys kill animals last year. One guy who had a non res. Moose tag who couldnt scout much, another who had an le moose tag on a unit that I know pretty well. The last was a new coworker from out of state who really had no clue where to go. I say just evaluate each situation and make a judgement call. If a dude is just being lazy then ignore him. Consider the fact that there are good guys on here to that just need pointed in the right direction sometimes. We all love to hunt.
 
+1 dgwoody, everyword is exactly my thoughts.

Im on the fence too, got burned really bad a few years back and I had people I knew because of one guy I helped ruin the area on me for a time. As a result of that it did make me more knowledgeable about the area I hunted and I figured things out. I still got my elk and those boys got nothing. However, I enjoy every bit of helping others out when I can. It's not always possible but if I can do it I will. It sucks to get burned in the process but the self gratification I get helping others out are beyond words. A lot of that has to do with the hunting partner I have to this day, 20 years my senior took me under his wing 25 years ago when I was a green horn punk kid and showed me the ropes, this is how I pay it forward and I enjoy it.

I would never see an out of State person as lazy, to even make that statement is a bunch of BS. Out of State guys already spent a ton on a tag they probably put in for year after year to get a chance at hunting a decent buck or bull. I don't see how anyone can fault them for asking for a bit of help or information. They don't live in the area or even the State so how else are they supposed to scout? And before anyone starts bashing on me, let it be known I have not hunted any other State then the ones I have lived in. I don't need to, I am happy to hunt what I have here and I don't have the time or money to hunt all that I would like to. But for those that do, I say more power to them, and I hope I have an opportunity to help out if I can.

On the same token, if you live within means of your hunting area or zone, get on Google earth, get some maps, find a starting point and go scout it. I still don't see anything wrong with asking for a little help if you're willing to go out and do some work for yourself. I like to help those that help themselves. Even at that, as dgwoody said, I evaluate each situation very carefully.


GBA
 
A lot of us who have hunted out west for many years forget what it was like when we started. If there had been a site like this ( or even the internet) when I started I'd have asked a million dumb questions. Its pretty tough - and pretty intimidating - if you're new to western hunting and live 1,000 miles away. That said, there certainly are some on here that the only time they post is when they're looking for something. There are so many electronic options to get answers that probably 80% of the requests on here could be answered by 30 minutes on this wonderful machine. The good news is that there are a bunch of great people on here who are willing to help those who have obviously done there homework and are just trying to fill in the blanks. Many have helped me and I've tried to help many others. As has been said, each situation / request is different and should be evaluated as such. In the end its up to each of us to respond or not.
 
It can go alot of different ways.

I asked about info for unit 53 new mexico. I did not want some ones honey hole. I dont think i need it. I am looking for general info about the unit.
Example, the best info i have gotten so far is there are lots of 4 wheeler trails over were it borders the Val vidal. I was informed not only will there be lots of hunters riding around, there will be alot on nonhunters in the area too. Thats all i need to know about that section of the unit. I have been spending my Google earth time elsewhere.
 
It is all those "million" questions and mistakes that made us hunters. Simply giving a guy the map to the animals makes does no service for him in the long-run, it just gives him a story to tell. I don't mind giving people general units and a few pointers. I do shake my head at the guys who give specific areas on these forums. They feel like they are doing a service by answering the question, but they are doing a dis-service to those who have spent the countless hours and money to learn those areas for themselves. I have had 2 spots ruined by MM advisers. One guy asks the question, one guy answers, 10,000+ read the answer.
 
Do you feel differently about sharing specific informatoin if it is a true once in a lifetime tag? Like a sheep unit with 1% draw odds that takes 20 years to draw?
 
I'll chime in here again and start by saying I appreciate the comments and feel it is very respectable for a fellow hunter to help out a total stranger in regards to information about an area as far as what to expect but not where to hunt on that area.

I have no problem sharing information as to how to hunt a specific species if I know how to hunt that species but giving out specific areas to hunt on the internet definately hurts those in that area that have worked hard to learn it and respect the privilage to enjoy it.

The internet can and has destroyed peoples hunting areas by sending all the "arm chair scouters" in on a innocent tip from a fellow hunter just trying to "help a guy out". (If this is you, try sending a PM instead)

Arm chair scouters can have the same damaging effects as a herd of sheep left to overgraze an area that once had potential to hold big game. Be careful what you write, it may ruin you later on.
 
Some good points made in this thread. While I enjoy sharing information with people who are interested in country I know well, I definitely shy away from those that are looking to walk into your spot and nail a big animal with zero effort. I love helping people harvest when I can, but with anything, getting to know someone through some pms or emails typically dictates just how close the person will get. Also, I must say that I have had some incredible hunts with guys that have helped me.

One thing to remember is that despite the arguments(guilty), "honey hole" seekers, and occasional rudeness, this and similar sites have helped many of us to not only achieve that successful hunt-of-a-lifetime, but also to create some great and lasting friendships. Keep this in mind when it comes to helping and communicating with fellow hunters. I'm a firm believer that with hunting, karma is as karma does...

-Cody

www.streamflies.com
 
I don't feel bad asking, but I do my own scouting as well. I don't have much to offer as I've done most of my western hunting on private land and just started hunting public last year. I'm willing to share what I know and trade info via PM with current tag holders in my unit and units I've hunted in the past.

Some of you who say go, get a map out and scout, it gets pretty hard as a non-resident. To scout anywhere I'm looking at 1-2 days travel to get there and 1-2 days to get back, then you need a few days to get around the unit, you are talking a week to scout anything. If you have a regular job and get 3-4 week of vacation a year or less, you are talking about taking up 50% of it for one hunt and one scouting trip. You can't sneak over there on a weekend a few times a year and look things over.

Then we pay 5-10 times what a resident pays for the tag as well. So take it easy on the non-residents that live 1000 miles away and got lucky enough to draw a tag or are dumb enough to pay the exhorbitant rates to come chance it in your great state.
 
I've helped and I've been helped because of this site.

With that said, I contend it's unthinkable to ask for help if you're not willing to pay some kind of dues (ie, scout, hike, maps etc).

You must be willing to help others too if willing to receive.

My thought is if someone helps you with an area etc IT IS STILL THEIR AREA AND YOU SHOULDN'T MAKE IT YOUR AREA TO HUNT DEER, ELK, LE IN THAT AREA.... FOREVERMORE!!!

I did just that, helped a friend and he and his family and friends have NEVER hunted anywhere else. They've not even tried to find a spot on their own. They just took my handout and never looked back! Now, this year, I want to hunt there on the LE elk and his brother will be there too. Too damn crowded for me now. They can have it.

I have a new friend (through MM) who took me to HIS area and the first thing I told him was that it is still HIS area. I will not be back there hunting OTC elk or deer.... ever! I also know how to keep my mouth shut.

We all know there are no secrets but if you throw a couple EXTRA hunting partys into an area it's soon over hunted or over crowded. Period.

Signed: Mr mixed feelings,
Zeke
 
Very good post Zeke. I remember when I was a youngster my Dad took a guy to his duck honeyhole and the next time he went back a couple weeks later the guy was right there at Dad's spot with several other friends of his that Dad didn't even know. After I found the spots I now hunt in Wyoming and several friends wanted to go out there, I told them I would take them under one condition. The condition was that they would not go back on their own or tell anyone else where they hunted. That worked well for about 7 or 8 years and they don't hunt out there any more due to age and health problems. I took one young fellow from ND that I met on another website out there in 2009 and he shot a nice bull with his bow. We have bvecome good friends and he was told the same thing and understood why. I am now taking a MM member out there this year under the same stipulations and I hope that it won't bite me! On the opposite end of things, I have received so much help from members on this site for hunts that I'm helping a friend on this year in AZ and NM that I can't believe it. I have no idea how any hours I've spent on mapping and research for those hunts, but it's has to be in the hundreds of hours now and I'm about to make maps of the areas decided upon with that help and my research. That, to me, has always been almost as much fun as the hunt itself!
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom