looking for big muley mount

[mtnseth]

Hi folks,

I need a little help locating a head-mounted mule deer that my father-in-law shot in 1983 in Idaho.

He dropped the deer off at the taxidermist in Pocatello, and moved to Montana not long after that. 23 years later, he pulls out an old polaroid of this monster and shows it to me. I had no idea he had ever shot a deer of that caliber.

Since I'm new to the family, I wasn't able to orchestrate the search for the deer until now, and I'm afraid it might be too late. But I feel that, despite my father in law's hesitancy to follow through with getting his deer back, it's my duty to see that this trophy is brought back into the family.

Here's the information I know:

The taxidermist's name is Gary Cooper, who lived in Pocatello in 1983, but now lives in Twin Falls. I got a hold of his number, and he told me that he sold the mounted deer approximately one year ago to an out-of-town guy brought to his house by a friend. Gary doesn't remember who the friend was or what guy he brought along that bought the mount.

So, my question is: Have you guys ever seen this deer mount? Do you have any idea who bought it from Gary Cooper?

Gary told me he had it scored a 239. And the tag is still attached to the back of the mount, stating it was shot in 1983.

Any help or leads in locating the person who bought this deer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Seth

Here's the deer with my father-in-law, Mike Hughes

 

[huntsonora]

You might locate the deer but I doubt very seriously that you would be able to get it back.

Drum

 

[mtnseth]

I'm not trying to force whoever bought the deer to give it back, I'm asking--assuming I locate it--that the owner sell it back to the family.

I believe it's an heirloom to our family. Any reasonable person, I believe, could understand that.

--Seth

 

[TFinalshot]

Call boone and crocket and talk to ryan hatfield, he knows every monster buck killed in idaho. If anyone know's that buck he will!

 

[bobcatbess]

THAT PICTURE HAS BEEN POSTED ON HERE BEFORE!!!

I DON'T REMEMBER WHO THOUGH???

PROBABLY IN SOME DR.'S/DENTISTS OFFICE WITH A BIG STORY OF HOW HE TOOK THE BUCK!!!

THE ONLY bobcat HOPEING YOU GET IT BACK BUT I JUST DON'T KNOW???

 

[runamuk]

i'm pretty sure that buck is in the book idahos greatest mule deer ..
i will try to look it up, if i knew what county it was killed in,that would help alot.....

 

[mtnseth]

Bannock County. Does that help?

 

[runamuk]

well i guess it ain't in the book,i swear i have seen a picture of that buck recently,just cant think of where..
thats good advice that was given to contact ryan hatfield,
if anybodys got the lowdown on big bucks killed in idaho its him..
try [email protected]
good luck

 

[huntsonora]

Best of luck to you.

I would imagine that the guy that bought the rack would assume that most people dont leave "heirlooms" at the taxidermist for 23 plus years.

I hope you are able to get it though!

Drum

 

[mtnseth]

It may not have been a priority for my father-in-law, but I can assure you that his grandchildren will consider it an heirloom.

I will contact Ryan Hatfield. Thanks for the tip.

As I said in the original post, I can track this deer up until one year ago. I assume its in someone's private collection in Idaho.

If you guys see it hanging up somewhere, let me know!

 

[D13er]

Unfortunately since your father in law basically stiffed the taxidermist you really don't have much of a claim to it. Do you have any idea what a head of that caliber is worth on the collector market ??? Get your check book ready for $10k plus.


JB

 

[Weatherby]

You may want to try contacting Rainbows End Bed and Breakfast in Challis Idaho. Somebody there is a huge collector of trophy sheds and mounts. The URL/Website is as follows:

http://rainbowsendbb.com/

The phone number is 208-879-5999.

Click on the trophy room link on the left side of the webpage to see many of the trophies that they have at this B&B.

Good luck to you!

Regards,

Weatherby

 

[mtnseth]

This post isn't really about who stiffed whom and how much the rack is worth. No need in pointing out the obvious here.

I can't undo the sins of the father (in this case, the father-in-law). That was 23 years ago. I was 5.

I first heard about this deer a little more than a year ago.

All I can do is try to find out who has it, and see if they're agreeable to working something out.

Thanks to those who offered some suggestions to help steer me in that direction.

 

[couesbitten]

Great post, and good luck in tracking down the buck. Please keep us posted on your progress. Scott

 

[NvrEnuf]

Yeah, be sure and let us know how things turn out for you. I hope you can get it back one way or another.

I'd personally pay a bunch of money if I could have any of the nice bucks that my grandpa or my dad shot years ago. Both my dad and grandpa have been dead for over 20 years now but I've seen pictures of some bign's hanging in their deer camps...

NvrEnuf

 

[idahonative]

Give me an email at [email protected]. I can help you out.

 

[NeMont]

Mtnseth,

Mike lives just around the corner from me and I am going to have to go over there and discuss this deer with him!!! You would think that with all the with his photography hobby he would have taken alot more pics then that one.

Nemont

 

[Roy]

I got
>a hold of his number,
>and he told me that
>he sold the mounted deer
>approximately one year ago to
>an out-of-town guy brought to
>his house by a friend.
> Gary doesn't remember who
>the friend was or what
>guy he brought along that
>bought the mount.

Uhh, that's taxidermist CYA talk. If he had that thing hanging around for 22 years, had it scored, I GUARANTEE you he knows who he sold it to. Not just, some friend he can't remember (some good friend there!) and "an out of town guy". He probably sold it over 20 years ago. Good luck in finding it, but I don't think you will.

 

[mtnseth]

Are you Jeff?

To my knowledge, even though Mike was a photographer, that's the only remaining photograph of the deer at the time of the kill. I don't think Mike became an avid photographer until he got into the newspaper business in Helena/Glasgow.

In fact, I'm not sure he would have taken a photograph at all. He's never been one to snap pictures of game. Still isn't. Of course these days he's after meat, not horns. I've never seen him shoot a buck in all the years I've known him.

The polaroid came at the suggestion of a friend of his so that it could be entered in a contest at the local sporting goods store in Pocatello. (Hence the parking lot background)

As nice as that deer is, it only brought home second place!

Thanks to everyone for the help. With your assistance, I was able to track down the deer to an Idaho collector. And, like many of you said, I'll need to win the lottery before I'll be able to buy it back.

The owner told me it scored officially scored 239 7/8 net (242 gross), and made the record books.

 

[NeMont]

That would be me. I know your in-laws pretty well. Just can't get Mike to sell me his girls jeep so my girls can cruise around in it.

Too bad about that buck, it would be SWEET to have it hanging on the wall.

Nemont

 

[Zim]

>I got
>>a hold of his number,
>>and he told me that
>>he sold the mounted deer
>>approximately one year ago to
>>an out-of-town guy brought to
>>his house by a friend.
>> Gary doesn't remember who
>>the friend was or what
>>guy he brought along that
>>bought the mount.
>
>Uhh, that's taxidermist CYA talk. If
>he had that thing hanging
>around for 22 years, had
>it scored, I GUARANTEE you
>he knows who he sold
>it to. Not just, some
>friend he can't remember (some
>good friend there!) and "an
>out of town guy". He
>probably sold it over 20
>years ago. Good luck in
>finding it, but I don't
>think you will.

Haha. That is what I was thinking. C'mon, does anyone here really believe this guy sold a record book rack a year ago and has no record or can't remember? For a rack worth $10,000+? C'mon. Get real. That one year deal really seals it. He should have made up he sold it 15 or 20 years ago.

 

[idhunters]

Well the picture was taken at the Big O tire store at the end of yellowstone ave in Pocatello, looks like the old Godfathers Pizza across the street, not that any of that info helps.

My guess is it was sold to H&H Collections-Bob Howard & Dana Hollinger. They have been through Idaho several times buying heads and have ended up with quite a few from the Power County-Bannock County area. They have even come in and had "free scoring" of trophy racks so they can make offers on them.

The last contact info I had was 1-760-323-9586. They are (were) in Palm Springs CA

Good luck to ya on that. Sad thing that big racks weren't that big of a deal even in 1983. Probably wouldn't leave that one at the taxi's for 23 years in this day and age.

 

[thebuckstopshere]

READ POST 18:

He tracked it down.

To the original poster, I agree with a few on here that the taxidermist is covering his arse. Want to find out though? If he will sign an affidavit that he was holding it for your father in law for all that time, and then sold it just one year ago, you MAYBE could get it back in court. Its a long shot, but it all depends on how bad you want it back I guess.

 

[mtnseth]

I don't necessarily blame the taxidermist for selling it. There has to be a statute of limitations on something like that.

HOWEVER: Knowing now (as of today) what a rack like that goes for on the collector's market, I see why the taxidermist didn't spend any energy tracking down my father-in-law for the mount fee. Not that he should have or was obligated to legally, but ethically, I would have a hard time not trying to return something that belonged to someone else. Or at least made an attempt to collect my money.

He and my in-laws have the same mutual friend. It would have been relatively easy to make a phone call. But ultimately, it was my father-in-law's responsibility. I'm not contesting that at all.

The weird thing is that the current owner told me today that the taxidermist said HE shot the deer, not my father-in-law. I know the taxidermist doesn't really think that, because he said to me yesterday: "I just thought Mike didn't want it anymore."

I haven't thought of the legal options. Although, like you, I believe it to be a long shot and probably not worth pursuing. I could speak to an attorney, I suppose.

I do know that the person who has the deer is an avid collector (and a seemingly nice guy) and that he thought in all honesty he was paying for something that was legitimately the sellers to sell. There is some gray area as to whether that's true, as I mentioned above.

What do you all think?

I couldn't sleep last night thinking that, if I had just acted on this a year ago, I'd probably be able to get that deer back in our family without forking over the five-figure asking price.

 

[JACKELOPE]

I can't really see what legal ground anybody would have to stand on. if your father in law didn't pay for the mount 20-some years ago, i would think that if a bill was due and not paid, the taxi has the right to sell it completely. i'm no lawyer at all, and maybe completely wrong, but thats what it would look like to me. it's too bad you can't get it back, but thats the way the ball bounces.
would you care to tell us what the collector wanted for it?

 

[D13er]

mtnseth,

I'm with JACKELOPE on this. I would like to see you get it back too.I think any lawsuit would be very unfair. Of course "you" wouldn't have much standing at all, your F-in-law would have to sue.

I too think the taxi's story was BS, I just can't figure out why he would feel like he needed to cover his ass.

JB

PS- would you tell us what the price is to get it ??

 

[mtnseth]

The price is irrelevant, because the owner told me he wasn't interested in selling it. He threw out an exaggerated high figure (admittedly), which was somewhere around three times its value (a number which he also told me).

So that makes the number a non-issue and not necessarily a reflection of its value on the market.

But I'm no collector and I'm certainly can't afford that kind of money. Not even for a car. My father-in-law has his memories of it, and we have one polaroid.

But the deer is in good hands, I believe. The owner said something to the effect that he needs an affidavit from the hunter in order to enter it in shows, and he was told by the taxidermist that the taxidermist had shot the deer. This certainly changes things for the owner.

I don't know if my father-in-law would agree to the affidavit, but he probably would.

 

[AZbowhntr]

So basically without your father-in-law signing an affidavit, the buyer has a trophy mount that he can't enter into shows. So he owns a trophy buck that he didn't shoot and only he can look at? Sounds kind of pointless to me.

 

[BIG]

Maybe he would at least let you make a cast set. I know it is not the same, but I would think that might be a fair deal.

 

[rackem406]

I'm with Big on that one. If he wants an affidavit from your father-in-law then I think it would be worth it to him to have a cast made for you and I'd even say a shoulder mount of that cast. If he is as nice as he appears to be to you then he should be up for this and it would be pocket change for a guy like that. That would take all the grey areas out of the transaction and the collector would be able to show the mount and have a clear conscience. Then you and your family could have the memory hanging on the wall.

Rackem

http://www.needgod.com/

 

[BigPig]

Cool story here. Amazing that you can track down a buck killed 23 years ago. Most taxidermists have an agreement that you sign when dropping off the animal that says the mount will be sold if not picked up within a certain period of time after completion.
Legally, you don't have a leg to stand on unfortunately.

But BIG has the best solution. He want's an affidavit, you get a refabricated cast mount. Simple as that.

 

[mtnseth]

That seems like a reasonable solution. What does a refabricated cast mount cost? (Ballpark). To me, with a deer that size, it seems like a very expensive endeavor.

You're right. The fact that someone located this deer in fewer than 24 hours after 23 years is simply remarkable. Behold the power of the Internet. A big thank you to everyone who helped in the search.

On another note, I see some benefit to the deer being owned by the current collector. The owner told me that the original taxidermist had done an extremely poor job on the mount; he had it recaped and remounted by a pro, and now it looks spectacular. (Although, I've yet to see a picture of it in its new home).

The new owner had it officially scored after 25 years, and it made the books. My father-in-law told me a couple of years ago that he "had it scored" back then and that it came up quite a bit short of B&C. Knowing my father-in-law, I doubt the measurements were taken by an official scorer.

At least now my father-in-law goes in the books at the man who harvested the deer. There's something honorable about that. Since the taxi had told the current owner that HE had shot the deer, this at least gives this nice buck a more honorable heritage.

As far as the contract, it's unlikely that there was any agreement between the taxi and my father-in-law, although I can't say for sure. The taxi was (and still is) an amateur and I know my father-in-law picked the guy because he was an acquaintance of a friend.

It's a sad story in many respects, but I have no doubt that the deer is now in the home of a collector who cares more about it MORE than my father-in-law ever did. I'm sure the memory of that buck down his gun sights and the bragging rights of dragging that big animal back into town are worth more to my father-in-law than those antlers.

It's us--the family--that feel left out that we can't share in that memory with him.

 

[nebo]

mntseth please keep us posted if you can. It really is a good story and I hope you can work something out with the owner. A picture of it would be nice if you every get to see it. Good luck.

 

[mtnseth]

I'll keep you all posted.

Here's a photo of the buck in the home of the collector.

-Seth

 

[nebo]

That is very nice rack I can sure see why your family would wany it back. I have a rack in the 170's that a lady gave to me 35 years ago's and I have had it hung up in my house for some 20 years. She had a son I really never knew but thru the years her son came back to the area and I got to meet him. His dad was a great hunter and gun smith. I told the son differant times that I had that rack and if he wanted it he could have it back. He has always told that if his mother gave it to me I should keep it. It isn't a monster but a very nice deer. This year I finally got a nice buck for myself and I'm going to have it mounted. I also will keep the rack I was given up also.

 

[spitz]

It's nice to see that this thread has remained so respectful throughout. Legally you wouldn't be able to get the buck back, it would be considered "abandoned" by the actions of your in-law. However, as you have pics of the buck and have been in contact with the owner, who is now aware that the affidavit he must acquire would come from your in-law, try to work out a deal for a cast replica. I don't know what the cost would be but I'm sure with a few calls you could figure it out.

 

[crimedog]

This is by far one of the best threads I have read. No idiots claiming the buck was photoshopped which seems to happen everytime a big buck is posted. Thats great you found the buck and you know it's being taken care of. Even better the owner of the mount allowed you in his home to take a photo. He definatly sounds like a nice guy. I hope you can have the replica's made.

 

[T264]

mtnseth,

Replicas usually run about $1500 for the first set and about 1/2 that for each additional set. My experience is with whitetails but I am sure that would be the ballpark figure you were looking for. This is top quality work.


T264

 

[TripleK]

Awesome. Glad you found the mount. Now go back to that collector's home and take more pics, would ya? I want to see the REST of the collection. ;-) I hope it all works out for you on the replica.

 

[buckhunr]

YES IT IS AWESOME TO LOOK AT THIS DEER EVERYDAY!!!!!!!! I CAN'T IMAGINE SOMEONE LEAVING A DEER LIKE THIS, OR ANY OTHER AT THE TAXIDERMIST. I STILL HAVE EVERY RACK I HAVE EVER KILLED MYSELF IN MY GARAGE, BUT BACK THEN BIG HORNS WEREN'T IMPORTANT TO ANYONE, ALOT BIGGER BUCKS THAN THIS ROTTED IN THE GROUND RIGHT WHERE THE HUNTER KILLED THE BUCK. IT WAS JUST A DIFFERENT TIME IN HISTORY. I HOPE SETH UNDERSTANDS THAT I APPRECIATE THIS BUCK MORE THAN ANYONE EVER HAS IN 23 YRS. I BELIEVE THESE DEER SHOULD BE PRESERVED AND HONORED FOR WHAT THEY ARE, REMNANTS FROM THE HEYDAY OF MULE DEER HUNTING! WE WILL NEVER SEE THOSE DAYS AGAIN!!! I WILL DO MY BEST TO GIVE THEM THE RESPECT THEY DESERVE!!!!!!!!! BUCKHUNR

 

[buckhunr]

SETH, HOW DO YOU THINK RYAN KNEW ABOUT GARY?? BECAUSE I TOLD HIM HE IS THE ONE THAT KILLED THE BUCK, AND THAT I BOUGHT IT FROM HIM. I TOLD YOU EVERYTHING I KNEW ABOUT IT. IF YOU WOULDN'T OF HAD THE PICTURE I WOULDN'T HAVE BELIEVED YOU. BUT DON'T GET ME WRONG, I DO BELIEVE YOU NOW. SORRY THINGS ARE THIS WAY BUT LIKE I SAID YOU ARE WELCOME TO COME BY ANYTIME YOU WANT. BUCKHUNR

 

[buckhunr]

SETH, THE PICTURE I SENT YOU OF THE NEW MOUNT IS OF THE DEER IN IT'S NEW HOME!! THE AFFIDAVIT I SPOKE OF IS TO ENTER IT IN THE RECORD BOOK, NOT IN SHOWS AS YOU HAD MENTIONED. I WOULD LIKE TO HONOR MIKE AS THE HUNTER IN THE RECORD BOOK, THAT IS ALL THE AFFIDAVIT IS ABOUT, IF HE WOULD IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR US ALL!!!

 

[cpugsie]

Seth,
Give Stewart a call at: 1-719-617-8017. He makes antler replicas. He's the guy that made the "Goliath" whitetail replicas. I'm going to be getting a price on an old set that I found in the Kaibab several years ago. Just haven't had the time to send him detaled photos yet so I don't even know a ball park figure. Please post what he'd like for a set if you can. I hope something can be worked out for you. Even a nice replica set would be pretty sweet?

 

[cpugsie]

Seth,
I got the number wrong. The actual number is: 1-719-671-8017. Sorry about that!!

 

[deerbedead]

This may be an errant observation, but if I am not mistaken the "collector" is Bill Lancaster, a very well known sculptor of taxidermy mannikins, who works for Research Mannikins out of Oregon.
Research Mannikins sells replicas of several different sets of antlers, and has a replica pro that works for them named Eric Carter if I remember his name correctly.
Why couldn't you talk to Bill and see if he could get them done for you?
The mannikin the buck is mounted on currently is for sure one of Bill's mannikins he sculpted too.
For whatever it's worth.

 

[Triple_BB]

Interesting thread. If anyone had a cause of action in this case, it was the taxidermist against the hunter who shot the deer for the unpaid bill. I have a friend who is a taxidermist. He a number of unpaid for heads. It's a sour issue for him. Think about the time and money these guys invest in these mounts and then they get stiffed for all or part of their fee. Some he's sold, others aren't worth the hassle. If I had a huge mount for 20 plus years that someone else shot, I wouldn't have a problem selling it. This is a case to let a sleeping dog lie...

 

[bobcatbess]

JUST THINK!!!

IF DARNER WOULD OF GOT HOLD OF IT!!!

IT MIGHT OF BEEN ANOTHER B & C BOOK BUCK WITH DARNER CLAIMING HE SHOT IT!!!

THE ONLY bobcat GLAD YOU LOCATED THE BUCK,LESSON # 1,NEVER EVER LEAVE A BUCK LIKE THAT AT THE TAXIDERMY SHOP!!!

 

[231nontypicalmuledeer]

"DEERBEDEAD"

THAT IS A DIFFERNT BILL LANCASTER. THERE IS TWO BILL LANCASTERS IN THE WORLD, AND THEY LIVE NEXT TO EACH OTHER! I KNOW BOTH OF THEM AND THEY ARE BOTH GREAT GUYS!

MTNSETH: YOUR DEER IS IN GOOD HANDS, BILL WILL TAKE GOOD CARE OF IT.
231

 

[deerbedead]

231,
Thanks for the info. I would have never guessed there would be two "Bill Lancasters" and especially not living near one another. Thanks for the note.
Travis

 

[canhunter]

Awesome Deer but it totally belongs to the collector who bought it. I think it is beyond obvious the original owner did not want the buck, and any court or legal system would immediatly rule that way. It sounds like the owner would allow a replica to be made and that would be as good as you can expect. As far as Taxidermist getting screwed on mounts it does happen, but mine factors it in to his prices. He also requires enough up front to cover all his actuall out of pocket expenses but not his time and effort. I can tell you he would never have a buck for 23 years before he sold it unless he just flat liked it for display. I would think this taxidermist made more then enough off having this buck to display then what he would have made off the original mount. I know a guy who shot a true pig this year and a taxidermist mounted it for free if he could use it in his displays for one year. Amazing how it takes over a year to get a mount back, but this guys was mounted in less then a month and being shown off. Not bashing just laughing.

 

[fullcry]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-06 AT 03:52PM (MST)[p]AWsome thread.GREAT STORY.I wish just once you could get on here and read a great story with out some idiot wanting to start some controversy or stir crap up.I wish for my NEW YEARS RESOLUTION that the BOB/KID would just go away. I know im not the only one who feels that way...

 

[elkslayer54]

It was a great thread till you started that, Go figure, Great story, Not a bad ending either, Well handled Gents,

 

[cheeseheadinOHIO]

Hell of a story. $5 or $10 really means nothing these days. Lot of guys reading this story. If CPUGSIE and Seth work together to get a set of replicas made, I'd think we could all contribute to Seth's cause of getting a set made. Some of you may think I'm nuts for offering, but that's less than a 12 pack. If anyone feels the same, start a fund. I'll send $20, what the hell. It would make him a real SON-in-law to do that for his wife's father. Whadduya think? Make me feel good just giving to a good hunting cause. Let me know.