I have noticed a trend

cabinfever

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I have noticed a trend with hunters who consistently kill big bucks. They don't necessarily hunt the most publicized units, yet they consistently kill big bucks. They seem to be one step ahead of eveyone else. They find sleeper units through research and scouting and than apply their skills to kill their trophy. By the time everyone has figured out that the unit produces big bucks, they are hunting another sleeper unit.
I also think Luck plays less of a role. They have killed big bucks before, and know what has to happen to kill one again. If you take a hunter with average experience and put him in one of the best units in the west, and than take a hunter who knows how to kill big bucks and put him in a less desirable unit, I would put my money on the latter that he'd kill a better buck. I find it rather amusing to see so many guys put so much stock into all these hunting services, when the real element of success comes from experience, research and scouting. Guy's that have to kill big bucks to cure their illness don't depend on luck.
What trends have you noticed with guys that are consistent at killing big bucks?
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-06 AT 10:55AM (MST)[p]

The irony in your post is the fact the Huntin' Fool banner was flashing below your post. Sort'a hit me as funny.
 
Yea, that is pretty funny. I was actually inspired to write this post because of the "hunt'n Fool" post. After reading that post, it seems clear they don't have very good customer satisfaction.

Mike
 
I've been thinking the same things. I'm sure my thoughts are different than you all's since the majority of my hunting is done here in Texas, but have had the same thoughts. There is one guy in particular that I can think of that every year harvests a nice trophy. In 2004, harvested a 168" and in 2005, a 186" and these are whitetails we're talking here, low fences, 250 acres; not 1 mile from where I hunt. I've narrrowed it down to what he does: he stays off his place until the does are in heat to keep the pressure down, he hunts long days - not just the morning and evening hunt, and when the peak of the rut is happening, he's there non-stop for a good 10 days or so.

I wished I could do the same as him, but it's hard when your on a lease and they don't feel the same way you do, such as to stay the hell off the place until the does come into hear. Or at least take it easy until that time happens.
 
Here are a few more things to add to a trophy hunters bag of tricks.He scouts his buck in the summer and kills him in the fall. I honestly think this is the ace in the hole. I have noticed more truly big deer being killed on the early hunts. Archery hunters have been nailing some slugs lately. I think this is due largly to them having a buck located and patterened.I'm going to quit spending so much money on the latest and greatest equipment and start using the money for additional scouting trips.I also learned this year not chase several big bucks. Decide which buck you want and than hunt only that buck.If you have a 9 day hunt the chances of your buck making a mistake during that time are pretty good. I believe not following this rule cost me an awesome buck on a premium tag. It wont happen again!
 
Couple years ago in a discussion on reasons there are fewer big deer around to hunt I got bitched out because I mentioned MM. People said I was nuts but the truth remains, people come here and ask for advice, even its as simple as "hey I just moved here and never hunted mule deer, where can I go to shoot a 2pt". People want to be helpful and answer and it results in another deer dying that would have otherwise lived.

Is it a big effect? No, but I dont think you can debate there IS an effect. Now its even worse as people come ehre, see the HuntingFool link and wala, more people pounding what used to be secret areas.


-DallanC
 
DallanC - it's hunters like you that irritate me. Hunters are the sneakiest and secretive people I know. I can understand not wanting to spoil a honey hole that you found on public land, thats understandable. This post has nothing to do with the declining number of big bucks available. I think we were just bringing up light conversation, not necesarily looking for advice. Do you really think it's a secret to hunt the rut, do your work scouting, etc to killing big bucks?

Sorry we spoiled the secrets to killing big bucks and as a result, the rest of the MM members will suffer and have fewer big bucks to hunt in the future. What a joke!
 
ck2128, I actually think his post is right on track with this topic. Not sure why he struck a nerve with you? You openly admitted that you hunt private ground every year and its obvious the competition isnt the same on a lease/private ground. So yes, information to these "secret" or obtained areas is sensitive to alot of people. Why else wouldnt you hear someone say "I killed a 186 buck in a *specific location*"


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Later, Brandon
 
Browtine - I do hunt a leased area in Texas for whitetails, which is where the 186 was killed. I'd show you the exact place where the deer fell. In regards to public land, I couldn't agree with you more, keep the secrets on where the big bucks are killed, exact locations, etc. I would do the same. But discussing general tips to killing big bucks such as hunting the rut, hunting mid-day, doing pre-scouting does nothing more than state the obvious tips for any species. I don't see how this discussion (discussing tips, not locations, for killing big bucks) reduces the number of big bucks available. If your a hunter and do not know to hunt the rut, to scout out areas in the summer, hunt long days, etc, then you must be brand spanking new to hunting. I didn't mean to strike a big arguement. Sorry.
 
Guys who kill big bucks will find an area that has less hunting pressure, wether it is in a general season unit or a limited entry unit. Big bucks aren't stupid. They find areas with less human encounters and will often be found seperate from the majority of the deer herd. Guys who kill big bucks will hunt rough stuff, where they may not see many deer, but when they do, it can be a good one. They put themselves in a position to "get lucky" and have the patience to wait it out. I once hunted for 12 days straight in the same 2 square miles before I killed my buck, a 31 incher, that I never saw before I pulled the trigger. You can't kill a big one if you fill your tag with a smaller one.
 
Didn't intend for this to turn into a negative post. Thought it would be cool to get into a discussion of tatics on trophy deer. This post has nothing to do with "where is your honey hole".I'd be the last to publicize my honey hole on a public form.
It's not like you can't buy David Long's or other books that have advanced info on how to kill big bucks.
And just to set the record straight, I don't support business that publicize the best units to every Tom, #####, and Harry. I think hunt consulting business that have gotten greedy and have blatently lied to their clients are laying the frame work for their demise.
 
Oh CK2128, I'm getting a major kick out of you.
I'm a Texan also, and have already been spanked by
these boy's. They play for keeps, by the way. You'll
learn. They aint talk'n Texas stuff, like your putting
up here. They don't give a flying crap about it. So, calm
down, take a breath, listen to what they have to say, and
I think you'll find one of the finest bunch of Hombres you've
ever messed with. They took this silly TX boy in. Well, some
did. These boy's on MM can be your freind, and they can be
something else. Let them be your freind sir.
Just advise from me.
Larry
 
Spending more time in the field will reduce the odds into your favor. Finding a mature buck in the right spot at the right time is the key to getting a wall hanger. This is what I mean when spending time in the field. I archery hunt and have taken a few nice bucks. Its not finding them or patterning them that gets them to spend time with you in your truck. At least in the area's I hunt. I have pics of bucks bedded on a open hill with no way near them. Then not see them again. Even have pics of them. Time in the field is the key to success. I also found out that I look everywhere now. Before it used to be just heavy cover or thick nasty stuff. I glass every thing around now.
I am by far a expert but just a lucky guy.


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SS hit the nail right on the head. It's all about Time. It is something so few people have nowadays. Those that consistantly kill big bucks have spent a ton of time out there practically living with the bucks. It is a year round obsession.
 
One of you guys mentioned the "hunt'n fool" post. I was interested in their service but wanted to read that post. Where/when was it up?
Thanks
The Christian
 
cabinfever is well on his way to killing some big bucks. This maybe the best most insightful post i've seen on this board since i've been lurking/posting. you pretty much spell out keys to killing big deer with some consistancy. While it would be nice to draw the high profile areas, just look at odds of draw for most of them. you'll be old and gray before you pull a tag in most of those areas. It amazes me to watch people put in year after year and think the only chance for a trophy is to have the stars align and pull a tag. I occasionally apply for some top areas in my home state and others, but i certainly dont count on successfull applications. As i said in an earlier post, give me a lesser area that i can hunt with some consistancy, and i'll figure out how to take trophys in that area while others are waiting for the "hunt of a lifetime" which may never come.
 
Sounds obvious but number one key to hunting success especially w/ big bucks is time in the field. Next, is the way you hunt. Too many guys just noisily tramp along hunting mule deer thinking that the entire key is to cover ground. They mosy around looking like blaze orange pumkins. But that doesnt matter cause deer can't see color right? However they can see shades of color and there is nothing too natural looking about someone covered in blaze orange from head to toe skylined on a ridge.
 
Cabinfever is right, If you look at most of the guys that repeatedly kill big bucks when they tell there stories you hear that they have watched this buck for several years or they found him scouting in the summer. I do think that sites like this, books like eastman's and long's are changing the way some people hunt. In the old days no one had binoculars and if they did their scope was clearer. Everyone walked as far and as fast as they could and deer drives were the way to move mulies. I was watching this year in Colorado when I was hunting, everyone had some type of german binoculars and spotting scopes and they would climb to a peak and glass all day. You didn't see that even a few years ago. We live in the information age and I believe it is starting to effect hunting. Just look when someone posts a monster muley and asks if anyone has seen the buck. Within a few hours the complete story of the buck, where it was killed, what it scored and what magazines it appeared in are revealed. However it doesn't matter how much you spent on your binoculars you have to skill to kill big muleys year after year.

Rich
 
I found this sight recently, and have had some interesting reactions and interactions. I can not agree more with cabinfever and others who have commented on how some hunters kill big bucks regularly. I am a trophy hunter and don't talk about where I hunt, and it has amazed me how many people openly talk about where to hunt big bucks. To each his own, but get a few years of bad experiences and you will soon learn to keep your mouth shut or lie.
I have been lucky and worked hard enough to kill a few good bucks and bulls and some think I am this great hunter but that is not the case at all. Here is the reality of it.
The only things I can think of that I do different then others is time out hunting and confidence. I don't spend much time scouting due to severe hunting pressure where I hunt. I do hunt from daylight to dark, and kill or go after most of my animals mid day. I also hunt a area at least 10 days straight before I decide if the animal I want is around or not. I will normally be out hunting every day of the season or more then 80% always.
Case in Point: Public Land General Season - I was hunting a decent buck with crazy mass this year. A guy saw me glassing and of course walked over to chat. The guy points out three does bedded on a hillside as he looked through his EL's just to show me there were some does. I was thinking hey this guy has the right glass but man he is not looking. Bedded literally 10yds above the does was the buck I was hunting plainly visible at least to me. I replied oh yeah I guess there are some does. Now here is a lesson for some. I just walked off the hill and left the area. Heck that deer was 200yds away, bedded, in a perfect position for a stalk. No way was I going to do anything to give that buck up. Later that week I made a stalk to no avail. A second hunter then chats me up and describes "the biggest buck I ever saw in my life" he chased the day before. He was describing the buck I was hunting, but again my reply was oh so sorry you did not get him. I kid you not the buck was freaking across the canyon from him. So now again I get to walk off and leave the buck and hope no one chases him or worse. I made two more stalks over the eight days of hunting, and have two walk aways because it was not going to happen. Lesson for some. Be willing to not pressure the buck if it may not happen. Finally on the day I was able to kill the buck I literally passed another hunter coming out of the canyon. Of course they all want to chat even if I try to walk away. He tells me there are "no bucks up there" as it is way too cold. I say oh thats alright this is my first time up here and I only have a few hours might as well stay here. You may think I am a BS'r, but literally 200 yds up the main canyon up a side canyon is the buck standing in the snow feeding. This guy walked right past the buck. So I spotted the buck at 9:30am and actually shot it at 45yds at 3:20pm. Not the largest buck I've killed, but super massive with rear tines averaging over 5" in diameter at mid point but only scoring 162 3/8. I never did see the guy again who said he actually saw the buck. I now know why he has never killed a "trophy" deer. There is no way in heck and employment I would not be out every day if I had just seen the "biggest buck I ever saw in my life". I know for a fact at least seven different hunters walked by or flat did not see this buck that should have been able to.
So did I have any special skills or hunting area? Did I pay someone a lot of money to show me the deer or research the unit? I think this story can be repeated time and time again by guys who kill big deer.
Oh to the same hunter I have talked to the last couple of years who "can't believe you killed that hog last year" wait till you see the mass of this buck. Bud here is how you do it-- Stop shooting the dink forkies and 3 points because it is the first deer you get close to or you never will shoot a hog. This guy is super nice don't know his name, but he knows where I hunt and he has never shown up in the area and totally respects others space. He is a great guy and I am not bashing him just using it as a story.
Wow that got crazy. I hope it made sense. No I won't post any pictures because there are guys on here who will recognize me and the background and then they will be talking about it. Those guys talking is why I looked this site up.
 
Something important in the areas I hunt is the ability to pass up a small buck or even a really nice buck. You cant kill a monster buck if you shoot a 24-26" type deer. That is a very nice deer and not everyone is able to pass on a buck like that. Gary
 
It's so easy to tell someone "how" and "where" to kill trophy caliber deer. But the bottom line is this- no matter how much info and wisdom you get from someone else, you still gotta put that knowledge into practice. The vast majority of hunters will never do what it takes to actually put themselves into position to take a trophy. It just requires too much work and effort for the average hunter.
Maybe the best thing you can tell someone when they ask what they need to do to kill a good buck is this- You just have to want to do it bad enough. If you have a strong enough desire to get it done, you'll take the neccessary steps to do so. The rest is just details.
 
These are some of the mistakes I feel make.
Number one. They don't have any confidence in the aria. Sure they feel it is a good aria but they realy don't have any confidence. Soon they are walking too fast, only glassing for a few minutes insead of an hour so they can cover more ground. The slower you go the better off you are. I often walk farther in the dark getting to were I want to start hunting than I will walk the rest of the day.

They bounce around way too much. Often people will hunt one aria one year and a different aria the next. The best hunters I know hunt the same aria year after year. They know the aria like the back of there hand and they don't have to wast valuable time finding the best bedding and feeding spots.

I live in MT and one of the biggest mistakes made is wating for the rut to hunt. Most of my best deer are taken in the first or second week of the season. The rut shifts hunting meter from HARD WORK to LUCK. Now I would like to be lucky but very few are lucky consistantly. Before rut older bucks tend to live in rugged tougher country. In my aria this is often BLM land. When the rut starts the bucks start to look for does and often they find then on the more productive agricultural ground. People that wate for the rut are hunting the BLM after many of the bucks have left.

One of the best buck I have ever take combines all three of the above tips. I hunted that buck four days before I saw my first deer in the aria. That buck was a small four point. A half a day latter maybe a half mile away I saw the big buck for the second buck. I shot him at about 200 yards. Most people would have given up after a few days and zero deer. I had confidence in the aria. I had seen the buck there that summer. I have also hunted there since I was 14 and knew I would not see many deer but when I did It was likey to be a good one. If I wanted to see deer all I had to do was take the spotting scope and look at the alfafa feilds a few miles below me and I could see dozens of does and small bucks. I got that buck in the first week of November. If I had wated for the rut the buck would have been rutting close to alfafa. I couldn't hunt there and would have never gotten him.

antlerradar
 
In Wyoming, it is my opinion that your odds of killing a trophy class animal are better in the archery season. There have been a lot of good points mentioned previously in this post and most of them I agree with such as time afield, glassing, honey holes, great tags or whatever. The bottom line is that you are after an animal that has made it through multiple hunting seasons and knows what to do when the headlights, flashlights and pressure show up. Archery season is less crowded and usually a month long, to me that is a great advantage. You may not get many oppotunities with a short range weapon (especially on big deer) but you can make situations happen because of the lack of pressure. Everything changes when the numbers show up and the guns start going off.

WyoXtec
 
Being mentally tough is a big one. If you can be mentally tough and trust in your scouting and research you can get the job done.Also being in top shape helps with the mental toughness. I have also comitted myself to learning something new each year.

Mike
 
Another thing to mention about in WY, is that in talking with a wildlife biologist here in Wenatchee WA, he said what makes the archery season in WY better is because most of the bucks summer in one mountain range, then they have a "shotgun pattern" traveling to their winter ranges. However here in WA, they Summer in the mountains in every direction around Wenatchee, but all winter between Malaga and Chelan. Their shotgun pattern happens in the spring when they head off back to their summer ranges...

Michael
"What I could do, I was doing, and that was simply putting my butt on the line for my country, the country that I loved, so that all the protestors and the academics and the liberal intelligentsia back home could enjoy the right to protest against people like me, the hated middleclass." --Gary R. Smith, US Special Forces
 
Here are some thoughts to both sides of the tell or don't tell issue. First of all, I agree with the original post that scouting and time in the field are the most important aspects of trophy hunting, as are always looking for the next good spot. Some hunters say such and such area is good without giving a spot, thinking that they haven't given anything up. However, if all they do is make someone who knows how to find the hotspots in an area take a closer look at this spot, then it will have an affect on the spot. I used to run with a group of nationally known bowhunters, guys who make it their business to find the next best area. Two well known bowhunters put out a video on bowhunting mule deer in Nevada. We watch the video which shows some huge bucks and notice the mt. goats on the slopes in the background. It was as simple as calling the Nevada Game Dept to find out where they had mt. goats to know which canyons these guys were hunting in.

Another time, a guy tells me he killed a big buck in Nevada. I ask him which city he hunted out of and he tells me. He tells me about seeing a hundred deer a day and even some bull elk. One call to the game dept. nearest that city, I describe the number of deer and the fact that there were elk there and the biologist says that can only be one place. I go scout it and find some great bucks and kill a few. Three years later, I talk to the same guy and it turns out that I had found the exact camp that he hunted out of. Needless to say, he was surprised and pissed off at himself.

So, if you don't want anyone to find your spot, you probably shouldn't even tell them that you're killing big deer. Anyone, can pretty much contact a game dept. and find out who drew what tags. It won't give up your canyon, but a good detective only needs to know where to start looking. And if you think that your spot is safe because you lease the land, you might be surprised. I know guys with very deep pockets who love to lease land out from under guys who were bragging about the quality of their hunting last year.

On the other hand, I don't believe that hunting was meant to be so secretive. I don't see any thing wrong with giving out some information to help out someone getting started. The biologists do it every day. Yes, animals will get killed because of it, but can we survive as a nation of trophy hunters? Not likely. We all know that without new blood in this sport, we are doomed. So,for myself, I do both. I have spots that I never tell anyone about my hunt and I have spots that I will direct guys to that will give them a reasonable chance at seeing game. The rest is up to them. I know that in doing so, some guys who also hunt there might be hurt by it, but that's no different than the guy who rides his ATV up a closed trail to hunt where I just backpacked into (and this happens every year). There is no way to do anything in life without having someone disagree with you over it.

And yes, as a whole we are all becoming better at finding good spots. One trend that I have noticed is that fewer guys are doing the conditioning that will make them mentally and physically tough enough to go where no one else goes. I talked with hunters in Wyoming in the past that will point to the exact spot on a mountain where they saw a thirty inch buck with their 'super' binoculars, but there was know way they could get there to hunt those deer. Others, who would cut and run after backpacking into a great spot because it was going to snow and it would then be TOUGH. I'm in my late fifties and thrive on the spots that the twenty and thirty somethings aren't tough enough to get to.

Every piece of information that one shares, whether it be on better equipment or scouting in the summertime will help others kill the deer that you are trying to save for yourself. I just don't see that as being such a bad thing for our sport.
 
Most guys wont do what it takes. They'll wait to draw some impossible tag in an area they've never seen. Then rely on second hand knowledge and maybe a quick weekend scouting trip. does'nt really matter if i tell them "how" or "where" to kill a good buck. Most average hunters look at me like they cant comprehend what i'm saying.
My personal feeling is the better mule deer hunters are really not in much danger after giving out info. 90% of the other guys are too lazy to be a threat.
 
Gemstake,
That's classic. I've got a lot of people pissed at me up here because I've said the exact same thing. 99.9% of the hunters are just too damn lazy to get er done. How dare I tell the truth eh? LOL!
 
Exactly true Gemstake and BCBOY. Most people wont stay in for the long run. Some will. But most will not lay on there belly and crawl like a worm to get just a little bit closer. They want a sure thing. Alot do not have the resources to do it either. I am out everyday and some can not leave work to do it. But totally agree with both of you.



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