utah archery elk till the 30th???

L

luvbigracks

Guest
it's frustrating that the only way to really hunt elk during the rut is to draw a limited entry tag... I think that utah should run there archey elk till the end of september like all of our surrounding states. and possible open a draw unit or two to archery only hunting like idaho did the nineties in the island park zone!!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-25-11 AT 12:48PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Sep-25-11 AT 12:46?PM (MST)

Maybe they should just open the archery season through November and just get rid of the rifle and muzzle loader seasons all together.

That way there would be no debate about which group is shooting and loosing all the elk! lol


Maybe they should just shut down all hunting during the rut, that way no one groups is getting an unfair advantage!
 
That is the best idea I have seen anyone post!!!!!! We archers shoot and lose "all of the elk"! If you think hunting elk with archery gear during the rut is an unfair advantage, you haven't been out much. If they moved the rifle hunt out of the rut (like every other state does), they could give out a lot more tags and it wouldn't take 20 years to draw. Why do we need 90% success on these hunts? I know... they fetch a lot more money at banquets! If you need the rut to kill a good bull with a rifle there is something wrong. Anyone with a little skill and experience could kill a good bull no problem in October in the limited entry units.
 
For the record,I have never drawn a LE rifle tag. If you want to talk about a group that gets the shaft. Lets talk about the LE muzzle loader guys. As far as I know UT is the only state where the muzzle loader guys go last! The muzzle loader guys have to settle for what ever the archers and riflemen didn't kill or wound! lol I spent my ten points last year and took a nice bull with my muzzle loader. It was a great hunt and I wouldn't have trade it for the world.

I don't think the state has the prefect plan for elk management but giving all the breaks to the archery guys isn't the answer either. I'm sorry to break this to you but ANYONE fortunate enough to hunt during the rut has an "unfair advantage" over every one else who doesn't get to hunt during that time! I have never had any problem taking an elk during any of the general season hunts I have been either, I have taken bull elk with my bow (too hot, so I stopped hunting with the bow), rifle and muzzle loader. Nor did I have a problem during my LE muzzle loader hunt because I'm willing to work for the opportunity.

I know this is going to ruffle a few feathers on here but it seems to me that if some folks worked half as hard in the field as they do on here pointing fingers and coming up with excuses as to why their group is treated unfairly we would have a lot more successful stories to read about.

I personnel would like to see the state either allow no hunting during the rut or offer a mix of tags for the same time during the rut or rotate each LE unit, one year it is archery during the rut, the next year it is muzzle loader, the next year it is rifle and have it so each adjacent LE unit is on a different cycle so if one unit is rifle the next is archery and the next is muzzle loader. This would stop all the whining about who gets to hunt the rut.
 
interesting veiws guys. and for the record I too have killed several elk during all the different weapon hunts, i just have a passion to hunt with a bow, and I am not necessarily looking for that unfair advantage either but who doesnt love to hunt big bulls while they are screaming!!!!anyways yes to alternating
the rut via weapon or eliminating the rut hunt altogether. but yes anyone who shoots a bull during the rifle hunt while they are rutting hasn't really accomplished much... sorry but its true
 
Seen the Rut hit on all Weapon Hunts!

Don't tell me the SmokePolers ain't gonna enjoy their Hunt this year!

Seen alot of years the last week of the StickFlipper Hunt was as good as it gets,not the last couple years though!

Alot of Muzz Hunters are gonna like it this year,would it only be fair to let that bunch have a turn at it?

No matter the Weapon/Weapons,Hunting them Non-Stop for a couple Months is gonna takes it's Tole,along with OPPORTUNISTS,GREED,COW SLAUGHTERS,SPIKE HUNTS in LE Units and BS Age Objectives in TARDville will eventually destroy Quality LE Elk Units as We once knew them!

Moving all Weapons out of the RUT is an Excellent idea,but then again,the StickFlippers don't like the idea!

For "GOSH" Sakes,We got "TARDS" on this Site that can't handle a Damn,I Mean DANG thing,maybe MM should add a Church/Biblical Forum for the MM'ers that can't handle the Hunting Forums?
Pfffffffffff............!!!

I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!


:p
 
In most years, the archery hunt is more pre-rut than actual rut. From my experience, and yes I have taken game with all three weapon types, the best rut days are usually in the 20-25 range of September. This year, it may fall after the 25th and I agree that the muzzy guys should have a great year.

My thoughts, move the archery from September 1st to the 25th. Then let the muzzy guys go for 10-14 days. Finally, the rifle guys can knock the heck out of them in Ocotber. The rifle tags will still be filled with great bulls.

More tags could be issued getting more people through the system. But, that is not how it works here and we like the log jam of bonus points. We like to get our 378 nittro mag out and knock it down at 5 yards...
 
Or:

We like to get Our Bows out that shoot 320+ FPS with all the other NEW GOODIES including 175 Yard pins & Hunt them in FULL RUT!



For "GOSH" Sakes,We got "TARDS" on this Site that can't handle a Damn,I Mean DANG thing,maybe MM should add a Church/Biblical Forum for the MM'ers that can't handle the Hunting Forums?
Pfffffffffff............!!!

I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!


:p
 
There is no reason to have a rifle hunt during the rut with 90-100% success. I agree with you VtElkchaser... the MZ guys should get to hunt in the rut (it's a primitive weapon), but hunting with archery gear during the rut no unfair advantage and is a lot more difficult than hunting them with a gun no matter what time of year it is. Even during the good years the archery guys have half or less the success the rifle guys have. Put the primitive weapon hunts in the rut, put the rifle hunt in October, and give out more tags. You might not get $40k out of a tag at the banquet, but more people will get to hunt.

Nice joke about the 175 yard pin bobop :), I limit my shots to 150 yards :).
 
Ain't No f'n JOKE!

Seen it with my own eyes last year!



For "GOSH" Sakes,We got "TARDS" on this Site that can't handle a Damn,I Mean DANG thing,maybe MM should add a Church/Biblical Forum for the MM'ers that can't handle the Hunting Forums?
Pfffffffffff............!!!

I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!


:p
 
Muzzies are primitive weapons? Not so much any more. Archery equipment is moving in the same direction. I do have to admire the recurve guys.
 
true that inline muzzleloaders and compound bows have came a long way and will continue to get better. but there is still a significant disadvantage hunting with a primitive weapon that doesnt throw lead 600 up to even 1200 yards... I mean come on! talk about taking long shots that are rediculous for the most part!once again I hunt with all three weapons in many different states and I love them all. but if anyone should NOT have an advantage or edge such as the rut it is definately rifle hunters... it's already to easy. Just keepin it real!!!!!!!
 
No perfect world when it comes to hunting elk. Too many hunters with so little time. But the one valid point I see is why do rifle seasons ever have to be during the rut and with 90% success? Never heard of such a thing. I no longer hunt with a rifle because I wanted a different experience. It's not about killing an animal to make it a successful hunt. But spread the prime time among the least successful weapon types. Only makes sense that those who are statistically lower in success should be allowed in the woods at when the elk are most vulnerable.
 
OR B BOPPIN:

We get the rifle guys out there shooting 1000 yard shots with their rifles. No chance in hell for the animals. Shooting elk and deer from accross a canyon at well over 1000 yards gives the animals a chance, right? Because we all know you know everything and you know what's best.
 
Even with all the new technology and faster bows 99% of archery hunters are limited to 50 yards or less.... I would still classify that as a primitive weapon. Any archery hunter that has a 175 yard pin (for hunting and not fooling around) needs his head examined.
 
I have always thought that this is how the dates should fall. Give the archery hunters the 1st three weeks of September, then let the muzzleloaders hunt for 10 days, then the rifle hunters. I think if you took the rifle hunt out of the rut you would save a few of the big bulls. Right now they are probably killing 70% or more of the largest bulls on every unit during the rifle hunt. I think that's why the size of the bulls are down on all the units. They are wiping them out. Just my opinion.
 
The thing all you guys forget is that it is an ANY WEAPON hunt. You are waiting longer to hunt the rut not necessarily to use a rifle. You are welcome to shoot a bow during an any weapon hunt. Even breakout a crossbow if you want. You can also hunt with a muzzleloader, add a 10X scope if you want. We call it a rifle hunt, which I am sure 99% of the hunters use. But for you bowhunters whining to hunt the rut wait for an any weapon tag and hunt with your bow.
For those of you saying size and number of big bulls are down, you haven't been out much this year. The size of bulls has been better than in years. I personally know of a bunch of 380 plus bulls killed.
 
Good god. Listen to all these archery guys talk about having the first 3 weeks of september all to themselves. Could you imagine the downward free fall of the elk herds? There wouldn't be single non wounded bull left by the time the rifle hunters got their turn. They would have to settle for tagging a month old carcass of the largest bull they could stumble across.

Could you imagine the bulls that the rifle guys did take home. I could hear grandpa bert now. "Hey little billy be careful with that meat, were eatin shoulder steak! There may be a couple razor blades left in it or a couple chunks of lead from them muzzy guys making shoulder shots again!"

ROFLMAO!
 
>The thing all you guys forget
>is that it is an
>ANY WEAPON hunt. You
>are waiting longer to hunt
>the rut not necessarily to
>use a rifle. You
>are welcome to shoot a
>bow during an any weapon
>hunt. Even breakout a
>crossbow if you want.
>You can also hunt with
>a muzzleloader, add a 10X
>scope if you want.
>We call it a rifle
>hunt, which I am sure
>99% of the hunters use.
> But for you bowhunters
>whining to hunt the rut
>wait for an any weapon
>tag and hunt with your
>bow.
>For those of you saying size
>and number of big bulls
>are down, you haven't been
>out much this year.
>The size of bulls has
>been better than in years.
> I personally know of
>a bunch of 380 plus
>bulls killed.

Couldn't say it any better myself.
 
Trail is right. It IS an any weapon hunt. From someone that has hunted each season extensively, there is no reason why a person can't hunt the anyweapon hunt with a bow and be very successful. Granted, if you can't kill a bull with a rifle on the any weapon hunt you are either extremely picky, extremely blind, extremely deaf, extremely lazy, or your body just doesn't do what it once did on a mountain.

And for all you muzzy guys that think your weapon is primitive?, PLLLLEEEEASE! I have personally shot a 6" group at 300 yards with a TC Omega 50 cal. Primitive my arse!


It's always an adventure!!!
 
Well rumor is they are gonna do that with the archery hunt I Think the rifle should be in november like nevada ya bulls are busted up but you can shoot the distance so it wouldnt be as tough and bulls are bachelored back up so it wouldnt be that bad then we wouldnt shoot every 360 or better bull and would have an even better carry over the next year in nevada they still kill alot of 400 inch bulls. Although this year it does seem like there are alot better bulls than the last two years.
 
Stinky, you say a lot of stupid stuff but this has to be among the stupidest.
You have no justification in your wounding and loosing comment. You are the guy that bragged about your expert shots out to 1200 yds. But took 10 shots to put down a bull beginning at 250 yds. Impressive!
 
I love all the whining about why Utah should be like every other state. Boo-hoo, You know the rules, don't show up at halftime and try to change them. Utah could tweek the dates. I suggest not having any hunts the last 10 days of September give them a rest. Archery hunt stays the same. Muzzy gets the any weapon dates and dont hunt last. Any weapon starts the 1st of October.
 
>Stinky, you say a lot of
>stupid stuff but this has
>to be among the stupidest.
>
>You have no justification in your
>wounding and loosing comment. You
>are the guy that bragged
>about your expert shots out
>to 1200 yds. But took
>10 shots to put down
>a bull beginning at 250
>yds. Impressive!


Got to watch out when pointing a finger and laughing Stinky...could come back to bite you.
 
REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

get rid of archery and muzzle 'hunts hows that for you boo hoos .
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

Elkun dont be dumb, unless your in that rifle crowd that needs 90+ success rates and love drunk bulls bugling their a$$ off at noon to kill a bull! Common sense is not so common, I just love when all the people complain about quality but line up to "shoot" bulls in the rut. FISH IN A BARREL!
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

If you don't like the dates don't apply, I do like the dates and the easy odds of drawing. I have drawn archery tags in utah twice and had great hunts both times. You don't need the rut to kill a big bull!
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

Coyote,
Why do archers need the rut? If you're that good, you dont need it either.
Or are you just a sissy girl that complains because some one got a bigger ice cream cone?
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

coyote chaser stick to what you name says. and leave the big game hunting to the real hunters.....
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

I have to echo the sentiments of some of the previous posts. If you didn't like the dates, why did you put in? The DWR didn't change the dates on you after you drew the tag. They didn't change the rules half way through the game like you archery guys want to. These dates have been in place for over twenty years so get over it or put in for the ANY WEAPON hunt.

I also love the argument that Utah is the only state that allows rifle hunters to hunt during the rut. So there are what, eight other states that an archer can hunt big bulls during the rut and now they want the only one that allows rifle hunting in September too? Did anyone think that rifle guys might want the trill of hunting bulls during the rut too? We rifle guys have ONE state where that is possible. It has nothing to do with making it easier, it's about the excitement of hunting bugling bulls and Utah is the only state where that is possible.

How about NO elk hunting the last two weeks of September? Or how about this proposal:

August 15th - September 15th = any weapon hunt
September 16th - September 24th = archery hunt
Sptember 25th - October 5th = muzzy hunt
Year round = Coyote Chasers hunt (he needs that much time to shoot his barrel of monkeys in a fish hatchery, or something like that).

The pre rut is so difficult to hunt that the success rate on the any weapon hunt would go down. The number of bulls killed during the rut wouldn't go down at all because each archer would kill three or four bulls each (relax, I'm just kidding, ha ha). The number of bulls killed during the rut would go down, allowing more tags for ALL three hunts not just one.

Whatcha think?
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

Rut you need 30 days for anyweapon? Good luck with the once in a lifetime hunt.
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

No, I just flip flopped the archery and any weapon hunts for dramatic effect. Did it work?

I was just trying to show that the archery hunt dates aren't as bad as some make it out to be. Can you imagine if the any weapon guys got to hunt first and for an entire month?
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

Never once did I complain about the "Dates" in my post. Re-read it you geniuses. :) I complained about the rifle "shoot" its not a hunt, its a "Shoot". 1.5 averages days afield with 90% success rate is not a hunt. Its a "Shoot". It creates a butt plug on hunters that will never, and I repeat NEVER draw an elk tag in the state of UT. And it severely hurts the quality of bulls.

Give the elk a sporting chance for hells sake, love drunk bulls in the middle of the rut with a rifle is not a "HUNT" it is a "SHOOT". Leave the archery dates the same for all I care, just get the damn rifle out of the rut, move it to Mid-October and give out 3 times as many tags. Perfect example is Unit 10 in AZ, arguably one of the best Elk tags in the country.

Archery tags-150
Early Rifle Tags-50
Late Rifle Tags-500!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

500 rifle tags! WTF... How can that be??? They must never kill any big bulls off that unit?????? It produces year after year after year. Same with multiple other units in AZ. Same with NV, and same with NM. Great bulls, a helluva lot more tags than UT. Very limited rifle rut hunts. The rut in any species is an absolute joke to offer rifle tags!! I would like my kids to have a chance to hunt a LE elk hunt down the road, but the way it is now they never will. Unless we figure out a way to increase tags without destroying quality. The easiest way to that is lower success rates, the easiest way to do that is too move the rifle out of the rut!
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

You mean big-game "Shooting" cause I know you dont mean "hunting". I assume you need a 90 percent success rate to have a chance! :)
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

Wait....hold on.....you're not complaining about dates? But you want to move the any weapon hunting DATES. That sounds like a complaint to me. I got a better idea to not change the dates. If we could just get the elk to rut 3 weeks earlier everyone would be happy, right? ;).
Tell me this CC. What should a success rate be for a LE hunt? archery? Muzzy? rifle? I just want to know your thoughts.
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-11 AT 02:29PM (MST)[p]Good night Albubba!!! Do I need to draw a picture!!??!! I dont care about the dates for the ARCHERY HUNT, since everyone thought I was complaining about the archery hunt dates, keep em the same for all I care! I think the success rates should be around 40-50 percent across the board. I know you will freak out if you dont get your 90+ percent rifle "Shoot" but if our kids ever wanna hunt something besides a cow or a spike there will have to be some changes! Unit 10 in AZ averages about 35-45 percent success rates for their rifle hunts. Draw odds with 0 points is 28.1 percent. Not bad to "hunt" one of the best units in the state. But it would actually be a "hunt" and not a "shoot". I think an LE should give you the opportunity to chase a trophy animal, but not guarantee you a trophy animal. You could get rid of the spike tags, make it harder to kill them, increase tags across the board and KEEP your quality at the same time allowing more people to enjoy the opportunity to hunt elk in UT.

What do you think success rates should be for LE hunts? You think they should be 90+ percent success rates?
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

Too much $ involved with the so called conservation tags. They will never let you move the dates, their tags will be worth LESS.
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

If you read my first post, I said to move the rifle hunt to the first of October. No hunting at all during the peak rut. There is no way a so-called primitive weapon hunt should have the same success as arifle hunt. Isn't that part of the reason you do it, for the challenge?
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

I mainly hunt with a primitive weapon because most states with common sense allow archery/muzz hunters to hunt the best seasons because they know they can issue a lot of tags with low success rates. Thats why I hunt with a bow.

I absolutely agree that primitive weapons should have similar success rates as a rifle hunt!

I agree the dates have everything to do with $$$$$$$.
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

Why should they have simular success? Thats why the are called PRIMATIVE weapons.
The last time I checked, the success rates for Utah deer hunts were not the same for each weapon. Why is that? Rifle hunters don't hunt the rut for deer.
Go ahead and keep hunting other states. 9 out of 10 let you hunt the best seasons. Fish in a barrel for you in those states.
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-11 AT 03:58PM (MST)[p]Albubba, I can draw a picture if that helps. Let me know. It seriously cannot be that hard to understand, if you think hunting anything with a bow is "Shooting fish in a barrell" you are either blind or stupid. Which one is it?

Following your philosophy we should let rifle hunters hunt the rut for deer so that we can push 90 percent success rates and allow 20 people per unit per year to hunt! Albubba you solved the problem! Congrats!

So you feel that if a rifle hunt has a 50 percent success rate that is low?

You never answered my question, what do you feel the success rate for rifle elk hunts in UT should be? Higher that the 90+percent it is now? Lower? Give me a number.
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

Nice!!! Note to self: Resort to mame calling if dip chit doesn't agree with everything I say.
Just using your words. If an archer gets to hunt the peak rut, with all these love drunk bulls lining up, then it cant be that hard to get one closer than 100 yards can it?
Rifle hunters should be more successful just by the nature of the weapon. Either you are blind, stupid or both if you think otherwise.
I already stated earlier that I they should move the rifle hunt to October, therefore lowering the success. You probably don't have the attention span long enough to remember that. Maybe you should draw yourself a picture.

rifle 60-70%
muzzy 50-60%
archery 40-50%
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

"Go ahead and keep hunting other states. 9 out of 10 let you hunt the best seasons. Fish in a barrel for you in those states".

Its obvious this douche nozzle doesn't get it! What CC is trying to say is that the only state that is basically "FISH IN A BARREL" is the LE Rifle shoot in UT!! I prefer the primitve weapons myself and if this guy thinks the archery hunt is easy he must be crazy! In my opinion AZ G&FD has the entire ELK thing figured out! Yes, they have very high tag numbers but the %success rate is probably 30-40% for Archery. I am not sure what the success rate is for the rifle but AZ produces high quality bulls year after year even with the high tag numbers.
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

what. you think after waiting 15 to 20 years .to get a tag you should only have a 10 percent chance . get rid of that wound 3 kill one bow hut'. if you really care about hunting........
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

Hey whitetailfreakingidiot. If you and CC cant figure out that I am just changing your own words to suit me, you need some serious help.
I know that its not FISH IN A BARREL. I am just using the same phrase as a point of argument. I am typing slow just for you.
My hell, I didn't think my sarcasm was that tough to follow.
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

elkun, success rates for UT archery hunts averages around 35-40 percent.

Thats the whole point of moving the rifle out of the rut, you wont have to wait 15 years to draw. And for my kids, with the current system will NEVER be able to hunt elk. The point plug is putting those tags at more 20-30 years if ever.

Also just because you waited 10-15 years does not entitle you to kill a bull. Its not a "Shoot" its a "hunt" remember that.
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

Albubba there are very few archery hunts in the state that average 40 percent success rate. AZ allows them to hunt the peak of the rut and I think they barely get 40% success rate. I think October is perfect for the rifle hunt, but should be second weekend, not the first weekend.
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

Success rates for the AZ rifle hunts are around 40-50 percent. Depending on unit. They also manage for bull/cow ratios vs. age, which is more effective I believe because not all 8 year old bulls will be 350+ bulls. Just look at the wasatch. There are 8 year old 330 bulls everywhere.
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

I dont have all the answers. I probably dont have any answers. I know that this argument will never end. I agree that the butt plug is firmly in place. I am not for complete overhaul, but tweeking would be a good idea. As long as its good for all hunters, not motivated by $$$.
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

"what. you think after waiting 15 to 20 years .to get a tag you should only have a 10 percent chance . get rid of that wound 3 kill one bow hut'. if you really care about hunting........"

What's the difference between "wound 3 kill one bow hunt" and 90% success rifle hunts with four times as many tags? The biggest bulls get HAMMERED on the rifle hunt. You need the rut to kill a bull with a rifle? WTH!!!!! Are all you rifle guys with 12 or 13 points ok with the elk hunt being a once in a lifetime deal? Get the rifle hunt out of the rut and you wouldn't have to wait "15-20 years" to get a tag!!!!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-11 AT 09:48PM (MST)[p]well I'll throw in my 2 cents

Leave the spike/cow archery season as is
Give the the le archers the first 3 weeks in sept. Raise the arrow weight to at least 400 grains and no expandable heads allowed, coc heads only.
The next 2 weeks no one hunts, let the elk breed in peace
The next 2 weeks to muzzy, .50 cal or larger and iron sights only
Then any weapon for however long to achieve the desired success rate. you could also at least double the tag numbers

I do believe this would solve the 20 yr wait.
 
RE: REget: utah archery elk till the 30th???

35 to 4o percent my aaa .the bow hunters and dwr have pushed that bs for years. for every elk . deer brought in . how many are dead on the mountain..????when you manage big game' its for how many can make it through the winter' with the feed they have.not how many people get to hunt......you bow hunters know dam well whats going on.... all you guys want is more; more more.. takeing the hunt out of the rut. wont help odds. if you dont like the bow hunt here. dont hunt utah......now that i have pissed off all you bow hunters. think i will go moose hunting.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-02-11 AT 11:53AM (MST)[p]If the archery hunting is so bad why do I see so many archery killed big bull pictures? also there are late rifle hunts and a lot of rifle hunters that get 300 point or less bulls, no one talks about that. Leave the hunts as they are, I believe if things were that bad you wouldn't see all these big archery killed bulls , and muzzy hunters don't do bad either, especially considering there are less tags given out in both archery and muzzy seasons. The opportunity is spread out pretty well now, and I agree that wounding is a problem with archery hunting.
 

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