long range shooting

[ck2128]

I'm trying to prepare for my upcoming mule deer hunt, more importantly, my first mule deer hunt. I'm trying to prepare for the long range shots I might be faced with. Do ya'll think the Leupold B&C reticle, or similar scope with bullet drop reticle, would be beneficial to me? I expect a 300 yard shot.

Also, I'm looking for any shooting tips. I shoot a Rem 300wsm and plan on first shooting from the bench to determine my bullet drop at different ranges. Next, I plan on practicing by taking long range shots in the field at balloons and milk jugs. Do ya'll have any other tips for me?

Thanks in advance!

 

[canhunter]

Please don't take this in a negative manner. But, if you are only going to be shooting 300yds you don't need anything special. Simply sight your rifle in for a 5" kill zone using the Maximum Point Blank Range method. You will get a specific range from 0-? where your bullet will hit in that 5" zone. This can be used regardless of bullet weight in this caliber, and you should be able to hit in that kill zone out to 300yds and never hold different then the center of the kill zone.
If you really want to have a set aiming point use the "Thick and Thin" method on a standard duplex. Sight in be dead on at 100. Basically you put where you want the bullet to hit on top of he horizontal. Out to 200 you should not have to hold any different because you will be only about 2" low with a 1.5" scope height. Then at 300 use the tip of the "Thick" post and it will be right on.
If you are going to buy a new scope just for this rifle and load then add a reticle to a standard duplex Leupold. The problem I have with the factory set "ranging" reticles is they are only guesses based on a average. If you are really stuck on having specific aiming points buy a Leupold scope then send it to Premier Reticle. They will install a reticle with aiming points based exactly on your known ballistics. All you have to give them is a true chronographed FPS, bullet type, Temp., and average elevation you are hunting at. The elev. and temp,thing is not as critical as some make it out to be so just pick your average. Premier is the only reticle company Leupold will still fully warranty their scopes with.
As far as practice is concerned 300 is just not that far. I would set up target with your wanted kill zone size and shoot it. Shooting water jugs, balloons, and other popping targets are fun to shoot but don't enhance your accuracy skills. Having a known specific impact hole like paper is the only way to really know exactly your POI.
To check your trajectory all you have to do is post your bullet, FPS, Temp., Elev., scope height, and I can give it to you at any distance. Trying to do it by shooting has too many variables to really make it accurate. Go with the computer model and believe the figures. With todays rifle set ups a 300 yd shot can be done in almost any position except for off hand with reasonable practice.
Don't fret about 300yds as it is not that far, and a mature Mule Deer vital area is a pretty large target at that range. The biggest tip I can give is have a truely accurate rifle load combination to start out with. I consider minimally acceptable as 3 shot groups of .75" or less at 100yds accurate is .5" for me. If your set up is only shooting 1.5-2" 100yd groups you are not able to make a 5" 300yd shot by default of your maximum accuracy. Yes some rifles over 6mm Cal. will shoot under 1" with factory ammo, but the are the rarity not the standard. I always call BS until proven when a person starts expounding how their factory rifle shooting factory ammo is shooting "quarter" size groups. The biggest clue is when they actually don't know what the group actually measured.
Good luck and practice a lot.

 

[buckmster28]

I agree 300 yards requires nothing special. I too shhot a 300 wsm, I topped it with a leupold 6.5 x 20 with the varmit hunter reticle. This reticle only worked out to about 400 yards so I sent my scope back to leupold along with all my rifle and bullet info and had a custom engraved bullet drop compensation dial installed. Now I simply range the target and turn the dial to the appropriate yardage and it works great. It will dial out to 1000 yards, and I have personally shot out to 800 and it works great. It will also save you alot of bullets trying to figure out bullet drop.

 

[Blackdeath]

The main thing you should get yourself is a good laser rangefinder so you "know" exactly how far the shot might be. Before the hunt practice, practice, practice, until you know what your maximum effective range is. After that the rangefinder can be used as a valuable tool to tell when the range is beyond your effective range.

If you want to seriously step up to long range shooting then would be hard pressed to find a more knowledgable bunch of guys than at this site. http://www.longrangehunting.com

 

[ck2128]

Thanks for all your replies. As you all stated, 300 yards isn't that really far of a shot. I'll probably keep my current scope (Zeiss Conquest) and get me a good rangefinder, AND, I want to be confident up to a certain range and know my limitiations. Thanks for all the replies and canhunter, I'd like to talk to you over the phone some time. Anytime after traditional business hours would be great. PM me and we can discuss a few issues I had.

Happy new year to all!!!!

 

[Phantom Hunter]

CK,

I was going to explain about sighting in 3" high at 100 yards but that has already been covered very well. The other thing which has helped me most in learning to hit deer-sized targets at 300+ yards is shooting at anti-freeze/gallon oil jugs filled with water. The gallon anti-freeze and oil jugs are about the same size as the kill zone on deer-sized game. Once your scope is set 3" high at 100 yds, find a place where you can shoot 300-400 yds. Set up several water-filled gallon jugs. Try shooting at them without knowing the exact distance if possible. Shoot at them from hunting positions. You will know instantly whether you have a hit or not. Once you can hit the jugs every time you could try some quart oil jugs. They are a lot harder. This practice will give you lots of confidence when that buck steps out at 350 yds. Good shootin'

Phantom Hunter

 

[mtmuley]

I used Sierra Infinity and taped my rifles trajectory table to the stock. I basically have it memorized, but it's there if I need it. As the other guys said, a rangefinder is an essential tool especially when ranges go beyond 300. mtmuley

 

[BeanMan]

Make or buy a set of shooting sticks, they will make a huge difference for you and are easy to carry.

Beanman

 

[canhunter]

CK so how do I go about "PM"ing you. Never done it.

 

[BeanMan]

Can,

Above each post is a set of icons. Go to CK's post The 2nd icon from the left is an envelope. Cick on that.

BeanMan

 

[canhunter]

Thanks will give it a try.

 

[ck2128]

canhunter, I sent you a PM. Thanks again.

 

[canhunter]

CK, I will have to get it at work in the AM.

 

[ck2128]

Cool, that works for me. Thanks again.

 

[slider]

300 yards use a pop can at 400 use a gallon milk bottle!!! Good Luck

 

[REDDOG]

canhunter, i was told premier only does shmit& bender scopes now that they have a military contract. i have a luep cut by them years ago but have not used them scince then,may want to chek it out. let me know if this info is wrong!

 

[canhunter]

Reddog, You may be correct. I have not used them for many years. I simply use the Thick Thin method and simply know game dimensions and needed hold over for my rifles trajectory. They installed a 1/4 min dot in a 6x for me and it rocks.

 

[Pre64]

Some good thoughts here. I might add a few. First, a 300 yard shot is a long shot. With a little practice and familiarity with your rifle 300 yards is very reasonable. Still, shooting in the field at critters is different than shooting from a bench. Shooting milk jugs at three or four hundred yards is the best practice you can get (I use coffee cans as you can fill them with dirt as you can shoot them more than once). Shooting sticks help quite a bit, but prone over a back pack or other rest works well.

1.5" groups are plenty accurate for 300 yard shooting. Equally if not more important is your rifles consistency. How much does temperature, elevation, a dirty barrel, hot vs. cold barrel (etc.) affect your rifles accuracy? I'd take a rifle that shot 1.5" groups consistently over one that shoots sub 1" groups under ideal conditions any day.

Another option for sighting in your rifle is to simply sight the rifle in for 200 yards. For most trajectories this will put your bullet about 1.5" high at 100 yards and about 8" low at 300 yards. I think you will find that most of your shots will be at 200 yards or under. I've shot over more deer than under, and sighting in a rifle with the high point of the trajectory at the yardage which I do most of my shooting (150 yards, + or -) just doesn't work for me. At 300 yards you should still hold on hair, just half way up from behind the shoulder rather than a third. BTW, this is just the method that works for me, others like a different method.

Computer ballistics programs are very accurate but they are only as accurate as the info you put in. A critical variable is velocity, and the only way to know for sure how a particular load shoots out of your particular rifle is to put it on a chronograph. Don't trust the advertised velocities of factory ammo.

Hope this helps.
Jim

 

[elkaddiction]

You've been given some good advice. In my neck of the woods, 300yd shots have proven pretty typical over the years. If you have time to set up, shooting sticks are more than stable enough for this kind of shot. Although I've killed several deer at more than 400 yds, it is my experience that it is very difficult to get a solid enough rest in the field to consistently place shots in the kill zone over 400yds under hunting conditions. For example, my Montana buck this last year was busy chasing does out in the open and the does would not let us get any closer. I shot 3 times hitting him the 1rst and 3rd shot, but missed clean on the second (he was moving). Significantly, the shots that connected were nothing to brag about although the 300 wby did its job. My point is hitting a deer a long range is one thing, killing it cleanly is another when you factor in wind, animal movent, an increased heart rate, and a less than perfect rest. I used to use a harris bypod. I now use stoney shooting sticks which fold up and fit in my hunting vest. The bipod is clearly more stable, but I've found the shooting sticks more flexible and convenient to manuever around the sage brush that it inevitably in the way. As for practice, I've shot milk jugs but prefer paper plates taped to a box. More importantly, do your long range practing using your shooting stix or bipod, and try to mimic hunting conditions by jogging to shooting spot, then setting up as quietly and quickly as possible. I site my big game rifles (300 wby/7 stw/340wby) to shoot 31/2" high at a hundred yards. Depending on the load, this puts them dead on from 325 to 350+ yards. The more deer sized game I shoot at ranges over 400 yds, the more convinced I become that it's pushing my limits. While I've never lost an animal shot at long range, I'm coming to the conclusion that any farther than I can hold dead on and still get a lethal hit is probably a good practical limitation. Finally, get a lazer range finder and use it constantly. You will be amazed at how poor a judge of distance the human eye is in western open spaces.

 

[JimNv]

Good advice on the stressors, EA.

The last time I shot an animal was after a lengthy jog. I then had to sit and brace off my knees. Used some control tricks learned in the military and made the shot at a little over 300 yards. The rifle (.338 Win Mag) had a 3-9 variable on it. I actually cranked the power down to 3 to keep the "illusion" of my reticle wandering all over the animal while I settled in. So sometimes bigger power scopes aren't the end-all in long range situations. Again, depends on the stressors (physical exertion, excitement, wind, terrain, etc.).

Good thread. Learned a lot.

 

[canhunter]

CK, I did not get anything at work, so I sent my email to you via a PM message. Reply to my email and I will give you a call.