Poachers...Makes U Wonder???

muleyman

Very Active Member
Messages
1,538
Reading the post about Deerking, made me wonder just how many people here that use this site have done, or is doing the same thing!

Or how many of us know of someone that broke the law in these ways, and never reported it? Personally in high school there was a kid that bragged about killing many deer off season. I should have said something to someone...but I was stupid.

I'll admit it. In high school we use to pheasant/duck hunt out of season, without my parents knowledge. My dad was REALLY disapointed when I told him a few years later. I still feel bad about doing it...

muleyman
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-07 AT 08:13PM (MST)[p] I'm sure I'll get hammered for this, but I think there is a bit of difference when someone shoots a trophy buck after season or before season for that matter or shooting a buck with a rifle during bow season, to me that's a poacher.

Then.... crossing the zone boundaries during season, I know it's not legal, but way back when there were no boundaries, but now-a days there is, so we can manage for trophy quality, long story short maybe it's the lesser of two evils, just my theory? still a sad happening??.. 20 years is a long sentence and it don't fit the crime in my book, murders get out in 7years, I consider this a theft, a theft of wildlife?.

Oh by the way why don't we all tell of our shortcomings in the field?yah right that?ll happen?.
 
You might not care? 50 posts or 1500 posts, you won't care unless they are respected here?

muleyman
 
muleyman,

That was a "collective" we, and I see sarcasm goes right over your head.

JB
 
I will...I got caught hunting ducks many many years ago on January 1st without a new lisence. Never did that again! Most people will learn after the first mistake.
 
d13er

Nice to know it was a sarcastic remark. Atleast I know now that you might just care...

muleyman
 
>20 years is a long
>sentence and it don't fit
>the crime in my book,
>murders get out in 7years,

So are you saying that is too harsh???
 
>
>>20 years is a long
>>sentence and it don't fit
>>the crime in my book,
>>murders get out in 7years,
>
>So are you saying that is
>too harsh???


at this point of what knowledge we have of the offense... yah
 
Not knowing Colorado law, but basing it on AZ law, if you get caught poaching it is five years of lost hunting priveledges per incident, so taking that into consideration, 20 fits. The Game and Fish here can set whatever the collectively feel "fits". Colorado may be different, I don't know. But not trying to stir it with you, the charges are clearly laid out, 3 deer and one bear incident....
 
Twenty some years ago some friends and I did horrible things pertaining to poaching and never got caught. I am still sick about it and have no tolerance for that. Now I enjoy hunting more than ever without a kill involved. Boys will be boys. Stupidstupidstupid. If I caught anyone doing what we did I'd go ballistic. Lesson learned.
 
Zigga, you did some bad things? You mean like feeding donkeys to lions? LOL! Just kidding!

I once took an over limit of geese. I knocked down 9 with one shot.(the limit was 4) The game warden said it was the best shooting he had ever seen! The judge didn't see the humor in it though. $550 and lost my shotgun.(a lot of money back in the mid 70's). Lesson: you are responsible for what happens when you pull the trigger. Even if unintentional!

Eel
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-07
>AT 08:13 PM (MST)

>
> I'm sure I'll get hammered
>for this, but I think
>there is a bit of
>difference when someone shoots a
>trophy buck after season or
>before season for that matter
>or shooting a buck with
>a rifle during bow season,
>to me that's a poacher.
>
>
>Then.... crossing the zone boundaries during
>season, I know it's not
>legal, but way back when
>there were no boundaries, but
>now-a days there is, so
>we can manage for trophy
>quality, long story short maybe
>it's the lesser of two
>evils, just my theory?
>still a sad happening??..
>20 years is a long
>sentence and it don't fit
>the crime in my book,
>murders get out in 7years,
>I consider this a theft,
>a theft of wildlife?.
>
>Oh by the way why don't
>we all tell of our
>shortcomings in the field?yah right
>that?ll happen?.


Comparing loss of hunting to prison?? kind of reaching there.....

So if I have a general elk tag and happen to wander on to the monroe to shoot a bull, that is better than having a monroe tag and shooting my bull a day late??? No lesser evil to me here, both are inexcusable. I don't get the logic of your post.

Andy
 
>Twenty some years ago some friends
>and I did horrible things
>pertaining to poaching and never
>got caught. I am
>still sick about it and
>have no tolerance for that.
> Now I enjoy hunting
>more than ever without a
>kill involved. Boys will
>be boys. Stupidstupidstupid.
>If I caught anyone doing
>what we did I'd go
>ballistic. Lesson learned.


well just think you could be still sitting it out on the sidelines today...20 years man...that would be unbearable
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-07 AT 03:08AM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-07
>AT 08:13?PM (MST)

>
> I'm sure I'll get hammered
>for this, but I think
>there is a bit of
>difference when someone shoots a
>trophy buck after season or
>before season for that matter
>or shooting a buck with
>a rifle during bow season,
>to me that's a poacher.
>
>
>Then.... crossing the zone boundaries during
>season, I know it's not
>legal, but way back when
>there were no boundaries, but
>now-a days there is, so
>we can manage for trophy
>quality, long story short maybe
>it's the lesser of two
>evils, just my theory?
>still a sad happening??..
>20 years is a long
>sentence and it don't fit
>the crime in my book,
>murders get out in 7years,
>I consider this a theft,
>a theft of wildlife?.
>
>Oh by the way why don't
>we all tell of our
>shortcomings in the field?yah right
>that?ll happen?.

Manny,
Does your opinion expressed mean that if a fellow has an X-1 Tag in California and purposedly crossed over into another X Zone to shoot a once in a lifetime Trophy Mule Deer, you feel it is not a serious crime because there was previously no seperate Zones? If so, I think I better understand your position on this subject as we had previously discussed, at length.

TM
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-07 AT 08:33AM (MST)[p]THATS NOT WHY, BUT IN MY MIND A POACHER IS SOME ONE WHO SHOOT A DEER OUT OF SEASON....CROSSING BOUNDERIES IS A LESSER CRIME...STILL BREAKING A LAW JUST A LESSER IN MY MIND...

HAVE EVER DONE, NEVER NEEDED TO.....

THIS YEAR UP IN OREGON, WHILE DRIVING TO A NEW AREA I NEVER HUNTED (IN THE DARK)I DROVE TOO FAR AND MISSED MY TURN OFF AND ENDED UP IN ANOTHER ZONE, I GUESS I BROKE THE LAW 'EH...?
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-07 AT 10:28AM (MST)[p]I'll fess up to what I've done. I shot a doe pronghorn in the wrong damn state! About 15 years ago, I had a tag for the Manila, UT unit, boundary ran right up to the WY state line. This was before the days of GPS, we were going off USGS maps and honestly thought we were in Utah. After killing, dressing, and loading said doe into the truck, we drove south a few hundred yards and came across a fence with a small (6" X 6") sign that said UTAH STATE LINE. At first I was just damn glad we made it back to legal ground, but we just happen to run into a WY fish cop on the way home (we have to drive through WY to get back home), I said *&(# it, flagged the guy down and told him what happened, I'm not claiming to be morally above reproach, but this was just eating at me all day, - I still wasn't really clear, I think I said "I think I may have been in WY". He wasn't real concerned, said that UT and WY worked together to manage the same heard, and although I did break the law (I did get a lecture on knowing my hunt boudaries) he wasn't going to pursue it. This was a doe pronghorn, which are not in short supply in some parts of WY, so that may have had something to do with it, and I know that others have made legitimate mistakes, turned themselves in, and gotten royally screwed, but after my experience, I'd go talk to a fish cop if I ever screw up again. It has to be a lot better than getting caught later "concealing" it.
 
I'm with Manny on this one. I think 20 years is overkill. I think the same lesson could be taught with a lesser punishment.

How about 5 years for each goose killed with one shot? 9x5= 45 years? Then 5 more for lying about it?

How about 5 years for killing an antelope in the wrong state, then 5 more for crossing the state line with an illegally taken antelope?

You guys learned your lessons with much less punishment, and I'll guarantee you that DK would never, ever cross the line again even if he hadn't received such a harsh penalty.

The man is embarrassed, humiliated, and in my opinion has been over punished. I believe he was a high profile name, and the game and fish wanted to make an example out of him for everyone to see.

I'm not sticking up for poaching. I'm sticking up for a fair punishment for a crime.

Drunk drivers that have killed people get off with less than that. We're talking dead humans, not deer.

Ok, that's my take. Go ahead and blast the $hit out of me.
 
steelie, you were lucky you got a fish cop that was willing to look at the whole situation and make a fair judgement call. I have had friends and associates that weren't so lucky and these were guys who made honest mistakes and turned themselves in.
 
Don't tell me you honestly believe that getting your hunting privilege taken for 20 years is worse than being put in jail for say even 3 years. If so you must not have kids, family, friends?
We can all argue what we think the penalty should be for any crime, but thats part of the deal when you break the law, your fate falls in the hands of one person, the judge.
 
>I'll
>guarantee you that DK would
>never, ever cross the line
>again even if he hadn't
>received such a harsh penalty.

>Ok, that's my take. Go
>ahead and blast the $hit
>out of me.

Ok, since you offered, I will blast the ##### out of you. You GUARANTEE that DK will never cross the line again. Guarantee is a pretty stong word. I would bet that most on this site would have GUARANTEED that he was a stand-up, ethical guy that would never dream of breaking the law, but guess what? He did. He may do it again. You don't know that and cannot guarantee it. I hope he doesn't do it again.

As for me? I'm not afraid to admit my sins. I shot a forkhorn on my grandfather's tag when I was 14. 6 years later I was confronted by undercover wardens in the field TWICE in the same year. I was doing nothing wrong, but it was enough to scare me straight.

---------------------------------------
This is my post

I've just pissed in my pants.......and nobody can do anything about it.
 
There is a huge diffence between loosing DOW licensed privledges and being locked up in jail or prison. To make comparisons between the two is rediculous.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-07 AT 01:00PM (MST)[p]The Game Wardens I know are generally depressed because they are so understaffed that they cannot keep up with all the violations going on. Most really care about our wildlife resources. They are very concerned about our predator problems in California. They know many are getting away with violatons on a regular basis. Minor mistakes like poor map reading are generally explained away. Obvious or intentional poor map reading is usually detected quite easily. Like when a hunter has a tag for one Zone and goes repeatedly into another Zone or a closed area, because he or she knows there is a trophy residing there.
I go out of my way to be certain I follow the rules, Dad taught me that way and it stuck. He would have been tougher on me than any Game Warden. Loosing my hunting and shooting priveliges would not have required a ride to the courthouse with my Father!
I have made a serious effort to pass that appreciation for the Laws governing our Wildlife resources with my four children, eight grandchildren and all of those I hunt with. I wish everyone Loved our Wildlife as much. When people cheat, they are stealing from you and me...Break The Law, pay the penalty!

TM
 
Old Man, that's my point exactly. You were scared straight just by being confronted by the undercover officers twice in one year.
Did you need a 5 year revocation? Hell no!

Does anyone need 20 years revocation to teach them a lesson? I don't think so.
 
Travis, well said.
I find it interesting how quick all these self righteous b#stards are willing to string jeff up so quick. I know 2 very high profile hunters who are convicted poachers and who are also editors and owner(s) for two very popular hunting magazines. They have paid there dues and moved on.20 years seems like a pretty harsh crime. I'd be willing to bet that if your 18 year old son did a stupid thing and poached a trophy animal you'd be jumping off the 20 year revocation band wagon pretty d#m quick. I'm all about stiff pentalties for poaching but come on, 20 years. I'm with Travis and manny on this one. We have child molestors who walk away with nothing more than a mandatory registration on the federal sex offender reigistry, but by he!! we better lock these poachers up and throw away they key. Maybe my character flaw is that I'm to forgiving, but I'd be willing to bet the shame that jeff has had to go through has been far more punishment than any 20 year revocation or fine could ever be.
 
Sounds like our justice system could take a few pointers from the CDOW. Once again REPEAT offender. If you do it once feel guilty and learn your leason then ok, but when you do it over and over you have made a choice and you can't argue with anything after that point.
 
oldman, how do we know your not going to cross the line again and kill another forkie and wrap someone elses tag around it.I mean poaching is poaching. Right! Maybe you should have had your lic revoked for 20 years. I wonder how many other guys who have blasted jeff have several indicrections that they haven't been caught for.How many of your fathers or grandfathers were involved in party hunting. I'd wager there were quite a few. So should we nail their butts to the wall. Whats that biblical saying....he who hath no sin let him cast the.....

Mike
 
Got the chance to teach my son a valuable lesson this last summer.

My son and I went fishing with my cousin off of the southern Washington coast. The weather was awful and the fishing was slow. All of a sudden line was streaming off of one the poles. We were trolling and thought we had finally hooked a huge king. after about 15 minutes, I had fought a 50 lb. halibut to the boat. Not being sure if halibut were still in season we called on the radio to some of the boats in the area. We kept the halibut in the water waiting for a definitive answer. Ten miles down the coast the halibut season was still open, but not our zone. (Washington regs stink) We let him go unharmed.

We could have filleted the steaks off of that bad boy and no one would have ever known. Got the chance to tell my son that Integrity is doing the right thing even when no one is looking.
 
>>>>well just think you could be still sitting it out on the sidelines today...20 years man...that would be unbearable <<<<

aw cmon if thats unbearable then dont do it,,,,
 
>>>>>well just think you could be still sitting it out on the sidelines today...20 years man...that would be unbearable <<<<
>
>aw cmon if thats unbearable then
>dont do it,,,,


no one has all the answers, let this be a lesson to us all...
God Bless
 
"How about 5 years for killing an antelope in the wrong state, then 5 more for crossing the state line with an illegally taken antelope?"

I don't think the two can really be compared, intent certainly needs to be considered, as with any crime. Maybe they should be considered two different crimes, kind of like manslaughter/murder, unintentional/blatant poaching. I'm certain I got off light, he didn't even write my name down, but 10 years of not hunting for what I did? Come on.

What I don't like about our current laws (at least in Utah), is the extra penalties for "trophy" animals. Intentionally killing a 30" buck or a doe just isn't different to me. In Utah the crime/punishment gets escalated at I think 24" for a deer. So a guy could get a different penalty for the exact same crime on the exact same deer if it is committed in October instead of July?

The other point your making is the penalty only needs to be severe enough to correct that persons future behavior -"You guys learned your lessons with much less punishment". I think it is more than that, the penalty needs to be severe enough to stop others from doing the same. Make an example if you will.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-07 AT 03:07PM (MST)[p] I am going to go out on a Limb here, so keep in mind that this is only my assumption. I have a theory that the MAJORITY of us here have broken the hunting laws at one time in our lives, be it one bluegill over the limit, one minute after or before shooting hours, ect. How many of us would admit to even one of those things? not many.
I also have another theory. That unless you had a father that was a role model of perfect legal hunting, a youth (or new adult) hunter will go through a few different phases in his hunting career..
Many phases (these are not all Violations but a reason they hunt)may not include all or any of these but i think a lot of them apply.
Some start with the thrill of the kill, and do not want to stop at a legal limit, or kill just to kill and waste the meat.
Some do it for numbers to impress others.
Some do it for trophy's to impress others.
Some do it for trophy's to satisfy their own self sense of accomplishment.
Some do it for meat.
Some do it just to be out in the outdoors.
Some do it to be with family and friends (Midwest deer camps fit this bill a lot)

Bottom line is you hope that if any of the first mentioned ones are someones phase he gets his head out of his ass fast enough, or outgrows it. I seen a new hunter (26 years old) Shooting frogs in a puddle just for the sake of killing. It made me shake my head and asked him WTF he was doing. It was like watching a little kid. Then i realized i did a similar thing when i was about 8 years old with a BB gun and was disgusted with myself the next day. At least i learned at an early age.
 
schmalts- good one.

The one thing I have seen with many new hunters is they pretty much do the same things, regardless of age......

Go ape crap to shoot anything that moves, frogs, flies, wabbits tweeties.

Its kinda funny to see a little kid do it with a BB gun, but not an adult.

Anyway....off the topic.

I am sure Jeff is a decent guy, but he poached and got caught. Bottom line...pay the price. It is a bit stiff in my opinion.

Maybe 7 years off, requiring ride along with DFG each of those years during season and a nice fat $15000 fine??

Don't have the answers on this one, but 20 yrs is an awful long time.
 
I can't believe some of you guys. You act like this guy "accidentally" crossed into a hunting zone. No, he didn't. And he was going to let most of the deer rot. He knew. And then he got caught and tried to cover his tracks on 2 other poachings (and I bet there was more he got away with). 90% of the people I know think most poachers get off with a slap on the wrist. This guy gets 20 years revocation, and $7500 ($2500 per deer which is less than I have paid for a conservation permit) and his punishment is too harsh? Unbelievable.
 
By the way, this guy can still hunt in 28 other states, he can hunt Canada, Mexico, Africa....
And this compares to jail/prison time? I'm pissed now.
 
I'm all for redemption and individual acts aren't ever the full measure of a person so people who feel bad for Jeff I understand. The penalty though wasn't simple, he has agrivating factors and it's why he got 20 years instead of 5.

First, the guy makes money, or did, from game related services. Second, killing in another unit in this case was clearly calculated rather than a situation where a guy sees a deer just over the line and goes for it anyway. Third, the game taken was trophy quality which again goes to intent/premeditation and personal reward for Jeff be it social or business rewards. Fourth, it was repeated activity. And last it also involved waste of the animals.

Spur of the moment events, guy shooting from the road, over a boundary etc or people shooting and harvesting personal use meat vs trophy class animals (in season) are just not taken in the same light as a planned, repeated, trophy havesting, meat wasting events done for financial gain or for self promotion in the field of game.

I'm no saint in any area of life but I've passed on more deer than I've shot, passed on legal deer because of size, passed on deer just over a fence because they were on private... there are some crimes in the subject area that are more infractions than felonies but Jeff just had too much going against him.

BTW, grouse are poached like you can't believe! Roasted over open fires too.
 
In the last paragraph of post 34, Steelie makes an excelent point. Deerking was " high profile" . Some where there's a kid learning a valuable lesson from Deerkings mistake. The punishment handed out in poaching cases not only needs to fit the crime it also needs to deter or discourage the would be poachers. Sportsmen have been begging for stiffer penalties for years. Maybe the judges are starting to listen. just my opinion.
 
This guy pled guilty right? if he did wouldnt he know pretty well what the penalty would be? did he plea bargin? could the penalty been worse if he pled innocent and then was found guilty by a jury of his peers? This might have been the best deal he could get and knew it. 20 years really does suck but thats life.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-07 AT 07:10PM (MST)[p]Manny, wut u did ws an accident. U didnt do it repeatedly, did u? And u didnt shoot anything and then brag to everyone about how good of a hunter u r, did u? There is no lesser, he poached, plain and simple. Should've been banned for life in all 50 in my opinion. If u didnt know him, u would be bashing him like u have on previous posts about poachers. U know it. HYPOCRITS MAKE ME SICK! And yea everyone has done something breaking the law, but to do it over and over again, come on now. An with other crimes, yes there should be a hell of a lot more strict punishments. But how can u even compare losing hunting rights, no not rights, priveleges, to losing ALL OF YOUR RIGHTS?!
 
Just to interject a bit of humor to this serious post.....

I just got home about a hour ago from hunting. I went out this afternoon after work. There is a special Aleutian goose hunt going on. I have permission to hunt a private ranch. I stopped at the ranch house on the way in. No one home, so I went out alone. I walked to the back end of the property and noticed about 2000 geese sitting on the adjoining property. The closest ones were only 25 yards from the fence! I could have sneaked up to the fence and killed a limit easy! I thought about it for a second and then left empty handed. I did the right thing. (I think. LOL)

About the time I got back to my truck the rancher showed up. I told him about the geese sitting just over the fence. He said "That's the Beckett Ranch. He hates geese. You should have shot. No problem." By then it was almost dark and too late. I did the right thing! (I think)

Steve
 
If he wanted to hunt a different unit, why didn't he just apply for it like anyone else?
 
Two years ago I was invited to hunt muleys in Eastern Oregon with a "family" that owned a cabin outside of Heppner in the Blue Mountains. There was private property all around us and in order to hunt public, we drove a few miles each day. We had a great time...All nine of us killed bucks.

The "family" invited me again to go elk hunting on a spike only hunt the same year. I didn't go because I had already archery elk hunted.

The next week there was an article in the paper about pouchers taking 6 elk on private property w/o permission. All received a $5K fine, rifles, four wheeler taken and 10 years of no hunting...It was the whole "family!" From what I was told, the owner of the property wouldn't have called the police and pressed charges, but they had CUT a fence, to get a fourwheeler through to get the elk, and over 150 head of cattle escaped.

What do you think about this??? Was the punishment enough or too much???

muleyman
 
idabigbuck, I would be willing to bet the integrity you showed your son that day fishing is what he will remember you by the most.
I can't think of a better way to be remembered.

There are only two types of people - The Hunters and the hunted,
I hunt.
Alchase
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-07 AT 01:33AM (MST)[p]Honestly I'm worn out on this poaching stuff, maybe it is,?

You know I left the church and resigned from a patorialship alittle over a year ago mostly due to money being their new God, every where you look ministries got something to sell, the gospel isn't for sale, nor should a public wild game.... get my drift?. frankly I'm disappointed in the Church and our hunting community as well $$$,$$$.$$
 
"I got caught hunting ducks many many years ago on January 1st without a new lisence. Never did that again! Most people will learn after the first mistake. "

Most people "learn" When they are caught.

........ these topics are unfreakin' believable !!

-Moosie

People, they thin' I don't know a Buttload of Crap About the Gosple, but I do. (Nacho Libre)
 
>oldman, how do we know your
>not going to cross the
>line again and kill another
>forkie and wrap someone elses
>tag around it.

You don't but nobody is on here is standing up for my rightousness and saying that they GUARANTEE I will never to it again.


I mean poaching
>is poaching. Right! Maybe you
>should have had your lic
>revoked for 20 years.

Poaching is not poaching. It is a good thing that guys like you don't operate our legal system. Judges are luckliy wise enough to make distinctions in severity of crimes. Saying that poaching is poaching is like saying that murder is murder; luckily for us our legal system is willing to make distinctions based on intent, severity, and prior history. Poaching is the same. While it is all wrong, there are different degrees of it and different degrees require different punishments. Should I have had my lic revoked for 20 years? Well, if poaching 3 trophy deer is deserving of 20, then I would probably only be in for a couple.

How many of
>your fathers or grandfathers were
>involved in party hunting. I'd
>wager there were quite a
>few

Party hunting, when in the fashion of the old days, was done for different reasons. Deer were a resource to be harvested for food. Now they are killed for other reasons. If you cannot see this, then you are too dense to argue with.



---------------------------------------
This is my post

I've just pissed in my pants.......and nobody can do anything about it.
 
Manny: I am not a mean spirited person. The thing is, I've seen everyone on here say they should make punishment for poachers more strict. Now that it is someone that you know, its different. Now its too strict. You can't have it both ways. And if it were worse crimes, where I am he would be in jail at least eight years for three strikes. I don't have anything against Deerking, besides him poaching. I dont know him, so I cant say he is a bad person. A lot of people who commit crimes are not bad people.
 
How about this for radical:

Hunting is a privledge. It should be cherished.

Somebody shooting animals out of season and cutting off their heads should NEVER be allowed to hunt again. That to me is different than ending up in the wrong unit or accidently shooting some extra geese.

You see, they just don't get it and they are all about the wrong reasons.

I am insulted that they would be competing for the same tags as myself, my kids and my friends.
 
Driving a car is a privilege.

If you drive DUI, and kill your neighbor's 5 year old you'll be driving in a year.

We don't punish real violent crime the way some want to punish poaching. It's a property crime without violence. It's technically the same crime as stealing street sings or destroying other public property. Should a 20 year old that steals a road sign go to jail and never be allowed to get a drivers license? People here get disproportionately bent about it because we are passionate about game. Fact is that the general public would not see it the same way and put up against first time child molesters getting 6 months, car thieves in my state getting no time on average till their 7th conviction... on average poaching penalties that include long suspensions and big fines are appropriate. Are there really egregious cases that call for it, sure, was it DK? Personally don't think so.
 
The way I understood the wasted meat issue, was one was 1/4rd up but it was on his way back that he was questioned by the G&F so consequently the meat was left to rot I don't read it as intentional waste...again just my opinion...

(READ) ?Another deer was shot by the licensed family member and both animals were left to rot. Officers hiked to the kill site and located the trophy-quality skinned buck, as well as a quartered buck. The meat was only salvageable on one of the animals.?
 
Something my Grandfather and Father preached to me a long time ago--Kid, if your gonna dance you'd better learn to expect to pay the fiddler.
And I admit I ain't no saint-never did anything as blantant as this Deerking but since moving to Wyoming I DON'T DANCE!!
 
Moosie, "Nacho libre" was one dumbbass movie... no wonder you liked it !
Sure wish all this crap would get over with, so I could get back to more important stuff, like kickin you in the nut-sack. :)
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-10-07 AT 10:29AM (MST)[p]BFE, I came here to see how people reacted when the official release of Jeff came out. What a bunch of Wankers.

Anyways... when the DK Saga drops off the radar I'll be back to let you kick me in the nutz. Till then this "He owes us a post" crap makes me laugh. He's paying his price, He's not complaining about it, thats what he owes, not anybody here anything .... :)

So, I'll catch you in a couple months bud !!!

-Moosie

People, they thin' I don't know a Buttload of Crap About the Gosple, but I do. (Nacho Libre)
 
What a bunch of crap?I've spent the last few hours reading this whole DK poaching thing?
Do some of you guys honestly believe he should do jail time for poaching a few deer and lying
About a black beer?I say to you GET A LIFE, do you really think spending 50 to 60 grand a year to keep a poacher behind bars is smart? I for one think we could find something better to spend our tax dollars on.
Is a 20 year suspension too much? Well, I for one believe it is, but that's just my opinion. Maybe there should me a mandatory hunting training and education involvement and some community and state wildlife and habitat enhancement involvement.
It sound like from his friends that DK is getting on with his life, maybe the rest of us should get of his back and get on with ours.

Theirs shad just laying on the ground out there so let's GETER DONE!

Jim
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-10-07 AT 07:27PM (MST)[p]OK,

So many of you clearly think going to jail is too harsh for a lawbreaker. SO what then, fines? The fine schedules are a joke to many of the people that peruse this forum every day.

If someone were able to poach several states every year during the rut and kill numerous trophy animals what would it mean to them to get caught? I would venture that the actual number of cases filed is less than 15% of the amount of poaching going on, and that is a very liberal estimate.

So this poacher is killing these animals, gets caught once and pays a huge fine, say $10,000.00. That is less than the cost of MANY premium hunts and he is doing it all the time.

Look at the increases in cost of hunts. There a LOTS of folks out there willing to pay HUGE money for hunts. What does a 10K fine mean to them compared to the average guy? Nothing.....

SO, remove the consequence and open the door to high dollar poaching.

No, there has to be a significant consequence that will send the same message to all of em.

Flagrant poaching should result in JAIL time and LOSS of hunting priveledge. That is the only commmon denominator.
 
Some of you guys need to witness some of the mess left behind from poaching. Chase the crows and magpies off a few wasted carcasses left to rot minus the cape and antlers. Maybe then you could understand the need for severe punishment. Some of these tags take 15 years to draw or cost up to 15,000 to buy. Its a big deal and a 20 year suspension seems almost too lenient. Jail time doesnt sound unreasonable at all for stealing from basicly everyone . Poaching is just too easy to get away with and too many people are tempted not to make it a serious crime with serious consequences. Are some of you guys even on the right website? Do you really care about monster muleys?
 
How many poaching threads end up on this site every year?
How many discuss how fines and punishment should be more severe? When they finally start getting tougher, people start whining. Why, because this guy is a nice guy??? I don't understand?

Questions that have already been addressed by many:

If he was illegally poaching in the first place, what is 20 years going to do?
If you can sell a deer head or use it to make money, say 10K for a trophy what's 7500? That is still a profit.
How many chonic poachers that have been caught are still poaching?
 
OK I am officially stupider for reading ALL these posts.
Arguing about the punishment does NO good. He got caught, the judge made the call, END of story. Nothing anyone has said will change anything. If you want to change the law go be a game and fish officer or a judge. All we can hope is that the guy learns a lesson and that other people will learn from this too! NEW SUBJECT PLEASE!
 
>OK I am officially stupider for
>reading ALL these posts.
>Arguing about the punishment does NO
>good. He got caught, the
>judge made the call, END
>of story. Nothing anyone has
>said will change anything. If
>you want to change the
>law go be a game
>and fish officer or a
>judge. All we can hope
>is that the guy learns
>a lesson and that other
>people will learn from this
>too! NEW SUBJECT PLEASE!


AMEN
 
I know several people that there familys poached becuase that was there food they didnt have the money to buy other kind of meat. Know that is poaching, Yes it is wrong but They used all the meat they didnt just kill it to kill it. Know I dont mind that poaching but for poachers that kill to just to kill Is totaly wrong to me. There might be people agree and there will always someone that disagress. People look at poaching at different angles. Poaching to kill is totaly wrong to me, Poaching to Survive is wrong but I understand why they did it.
 
I guess most people here care more about poachers, and killing a big mulie at all costs...than the deer themselves.

It is people like that, and sites like this that have done more harm to western hunting than any defunct game agency.
 

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