Ironic ain't it...

M

manny15

Guest
with all th talk of DK, here we have this one, I nver said what DK did was wright or O.K, but this is blatant bunk! did the punishment fit this guy,,,,?
=======================================

Glad the judge took trespassing serious...

UNLICENSED HUNTER RECEIVES JAIL TIME FOR TRESPASSING
RATON - A Guadalupita man caught trespassing and hunting elk without a license was sentenced Monday, Feb. 26, to pay $2,114 in fines and spend 30 days in the Colfax County Detention Center.

Herman Vigil, 47, from Guadalupita, Larry Horton, 60, from Mora, and Alexander Romero, 55, also from Mora, were charged with trespass after they were caught on the UU Bar Ranch by Department of Game and Fish Officer Clint Henson on Oct. 14, 2006. Horton held the only elk license of the three men for Game Management Unit 48, but the party took apart a wire gate and drove past a "No Trespassing" sign to enter the private property. After the three men had been caught and escorted back onto the correct hunting unit, it was found that Romero had an outstanding arrest warrant. When the officer returned to arrest Romero, he found that Vigil had taken Horton's rifle and was in the field hunting.

All three men were found guilty of criminal trespass. Vigil also was found guilty of hunting elk with no license. During sentencing, Officer Henson's recommendation for the State was for maximum fines but to suspend all jail time. Colfax County Magistrate Warren Walton disagreed with the recommendation and sentenced Vigil to the maximum $2,114 in fines and 30 days in the Colfax County Jail. Fines assessed against the three men totaled $3,381. The Department of Game and Fish also may revoke the men's hunting privileges for 3 years.

-------------------------------------

MAY revoke the men's hunting privileges for 3 years.
 
As far as I'm concerned,maybe jail time is the answer for all poaching incidents.The threat of fines and loss of privileges sure doesn't seem to deter anyone.Maybe if DK knew he could spend 6 months in the "hoosegow",he wouldn't have done what he did.Higher fines and jail time-it's time this kind of bull**** stops!Manny,I agree there are varying levels of offenses.But when a guy KNOWINGLY AND WILLFULLY,WITH THE SOLE PURPOSE TO KILL A TROPHY ANIMAL,breaks a game law,he needs to have the book thrown at him!I'm not saying that I've never been tempted-I have.But the thought of losing privileges-more than any fine-keeps me from ever crossing that line.Unfortunately,some people's egos aren't affected by that penalty.Later,N.T.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-07 AT 10:14AM (MST)[p] That's all I'm saying, there are different degree?s of offence?s, but because it was a trophy some one should have a 20 year sentence just doesn't sit right with me, maybe everyone who takes a deer illegally, fork horn or trophy should have a mandatory jail sentence of 30 days or more, but then that county would have to pay room and board for ?em.

I love big deer just as much as anyone else here on this site, but I just don't like how if it's a trophy its more important that a fork, and one should have a stiffer sentence, that just sends a bad message all together, there needs to be a deterrent for all illegal taking of game animals?anyways who knows
 
Manny, I couldn't agree with you more. To make a long story short, my brother and I turned a guy in for poaching here in Utah, he was confronted by the warden at his home and confessed that he shot the deer but that his wife tagged it. They fined him a $1000 dollars and revoked his lic for one year, and here is the clencher; He got to keep the deer, or rather his wife got to keep the deer.Incidently, this was a trophy buck. Why give one guy 1 year revocation and the other guy 20.

Mike
 
Jail time should be mandatory , regardless if it's a first time offense or if it's a trophy. Poaching is poaching , why put more value on a trophy buck or bull , it should be a straight high dollar fine paid for by garnishment of income checks and sale of confiscated weapons and vehicles , max jail time enforced regardless if the person may loose job or who the individual is in their community. Poachers WILL NEVER FEAR GETTING CAUGHT, until EXTREMELY SEVERE PENALTIES ARE ENFORCED!There's nothing worse than a LIAR AND A THEIF, ONE IN THE SAME and poachers are just that!They steal from you and me with no regards to the law or the land or any animals.
 
Manny the fact that this was not an isolated incident is why 20 years fits the bill. Trophy or not if you have a repeat offender then what ever the judge decides is ok with me. A repeat offender will continue until he is caught. If this was his only offense and a case could be made that this was ONE lapse in judgement then ok maybe 20 is stiff, but how is being soft the first time going to stop anybody?
 
The Judicial system (JUDGES) frequently make lousy decisions. Generally, but not always, they are soft on Wildlife oriented crime.
The Judicial System needs an overhaul, and that is a big order!

TM
 
>Jail time should be mandatory ,
>regardless if it's a first
>time offense or if it's
>a trophy. Poaching is poaching
>, why put more value
>on a trophy buck or
>bull , it should be
>a straight high dollar fine
>paid for by garnishment of
>income checks and sale of
>confiscated weapons and vehicles ,
>max jail time enforced regardless
>if the person may loose
>job or who the individual
>is in their community. Poachers
>WILL NEVER FEAR GETTING CAUGHT,
>until EXTREMELY SEVERE PENALTIES ARE
>ENFORCED!There's nothing worse than a
>LIAR AND A THEIF, ONE
>IN THE SAME and poachers
>are just that!They steal from
>you and me with no
>regards to the law or
>the land or any animals.
>

Oh for Gods sake!!! You guys are so full of #####. Jail time ##### OJ Murdered his friggin wife and didn't get jail time---there are so many things that are way worse than poaching a couple deer that do not get Jail time. I think you boys need to get your prioritys straightend out. Save the jail time for the Meth dealers, mob,murderers, and rapists.
 
O.J. did'nt get any jail time BECAUSE he was'nt convicted.
When poachers get caught red handed, and CONVICTED,
they should get their asses nailed to the wall.
 
Cabinfever, I call BS on your story about some guy shooting a deer with wifes tag and paying a small fine and the fish and game letting him keep it. That is BS!
 
I posted this on the DK post. But it is pertinent here.

"Yes, maybe you were friends. And I realize that friendships can be very strong. I was more appalled at your attempts to make somebody a lesser christian because he feels strongly about somebody whom isn't his friend. My best friend is now going thru a wildlife violation case. He took a deer without a license in another state and transported to his home state violating the Lacey Act. This happened several years ago, in a whitetail state and the buck was a mid 170's trophy. I cannot be specific as he is in the process of a plea arrangement. He has so far spent $65,000 in attorney fees in the last 1.5 years hiring counsel in the state in question, and counsel in the form of a previous federal prosecutor in his home state. Why? Because violating the Lacey Act is felonious. He adamantly did not want a felony on his record. Of course there are many reasons somebody wouldn't want to have a felony, loss of gun rights, travel rights, admitting to a felony when asked, etc. $65K later he indeed is pleaing to a felony, with probation, loss of hunting priveleges, and fines yet to be determined but estimated at $15K. He spent all of that money so that he would not have a felony conviction on his record. And has now thrown in the towel. Am I hurt? You bet, we hunted great together, as we all know it is hard to find somebody that hunts like you do. Will we still be buddies? You bet. Will we hunt again? Time will tell. But definately not for the next 3-5 years depending upon his outcome, and never again will we chase birds or bucks with rifle, only bow. We were best friends and I still have reservations about ever hunting with him again."
 
>I guess since one system is
>busted that we should allow
>poachers off? What kind
>of mentality is that?


Buddy-- if the rapist and murderer get off then what does that say about priorities??? A couple deer and a lie about a bear tag is of more significance than a murder?? I ain't gonna convince you guys any way any how but jeez----how long ago would this sort of offense been considered a misdemeanor 20-30 years ago???Things have changed for sure but throwing a guy in jail with the rapist,muderer and gang members over a couple deer-I can't go there. Fine and loss of priviliges is reasonable at least.
 
As far as Wyoming goes, the G&F does not have and cannot issue felony violations. They are all misdemeanors.
A felony is what screws a violator. They can't do lots of things without chancing serious prison time: possess a gun, leave the country, etc.
That kind of mark is life-long.
I guess the question is do we want to empower more the agency that already has the most powerful law-enforcement individual in the State (there are 50), or are really sick and twisted poaching screwballs to be left an accountability escape?
Gillette is pretty bad with these thrill-killers and game-wasters. Worst in the state, probably lots of states.
Idunno, I ain't been elected yet!
 
horseshoe, I cannot agree with you.Jail is for law breaking persons , that is ANYONE who breaks the law.Regardless if they killed a person or an animal, if they broke the law they should have to be punished,it's the society you and I live in. My point is , that because poachers risk very little if cuaght , most are not too afraid of getting caught.Now if jail time(the risk of loosing employment if any)and high dollar (forced payment)fines were enforced than maybe that risk wouldn't be worth their little cheap thrills.
Are you a judge or have you been caught poaching? I don't disagree that those criminals you mentioned should be locked up , but am puzzled at how you said I'm full of xxxx.Since you said this , then what would you say about poaching and poachers caught? You said a dead deer(poached) is not much , so I'm curious as to your feelings about this....
 
Outdoordan, you can believe what you want to believe. PM and I will give you my phone number and the name of the guy who was busted, his wifes name, the game wardens name and any other pertinent information to the case. It is all a matter of public record. And yes your right, it is BS that they let them keep the deer.

Mike
 
First off, he is comparing apples to oranges. We have a whole system of law enforcement on both the federal and state levels, including laws, codes, and regulations. The laws are broken, and punishment is given for these wildlife crimes. If we want to sit here and complain about what happens to murderers and rapists, we might as well all just complain because we all probably agree that they aren't getting stiff enough punishment. But that ISN'T what we are talking about. This is a hunting forum, and we are talking about poaching.
 
Yes they got what they deserved and should have been slammed harder. They were blatantly breaking the law.

Deer King got what he deserved and should also have been slammed harder. Deer king was also blatantly breaking the law and was being deceiving after he got caught. The book should be thrown at it him......including jail time.

If the punishment had been harder in the past, poaching would not be as likely a problem as it is today.
 
>horseshoe, I cannot agree with you.Jail
>is for law breaking persons
>, that is ANYONE who
>breaks the law.Regardless if they
>killed a person or an
>animal, if they broke the
>law they should have to
>be punished,it's the society you
>and I live in. My
>point is , that because
>poachers risk very little if
>cuaght , most are not
>too afraid of getting caught.Now
>if jail time(the risk of
>loosing employment if any)and high
>dollar (forced payment)fines were enforced
>than maybe that risk wouldn't
>be worth their little cheap
>thrills.
>Are you a judge or have
>you been caught poaching? I
>don't disagree that those criminals
>you mentioned should be locked
>up , but am puzzled
>at how you said I'm
>full of xxxx.Since you said
>this , then what would
>you say about poaching and
>poachers caught? You said a
>dead deer(poached) is not much
>, so I'm curious as
>to your feelings about this....
>


All I am saying is that a crime against a citizen should be more severe than a wildlife violation and if criminals are getting of with less punishment for a crime against humanity then the priorities are wrong.

One day we all will have to give account for our sins of commision and ommision and all of us will be found wanting won't be one who stands with his head held high.....Includes you sir.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-07 AT 00:36AM (MST)[p]The criminal justice system isn't perfect, or even close. I've worked in law enforcement in Kali for 24 years. I've seen inmates with 15-20 arrests from Orange and Los Angeles County doing their first prison sentence and seen inmates from rural counties do prison time for their first or second offense of the same type. Mostly drug crimes but not always. Bigger counties plea the charges down so that the courts aren't crowded.

That said, I believe there are varying degrees of poaching. I have a friend that took a bull in Colorado that his dad tagged and he only had a cow tag. He got a $2,700.00 fine and three 3 years time out time. (No hunting in any Western State for 3 years) This fine was appropriate for the offense. He'll NEVER do it again.

Should it have been a felony? I don't believe so. The punishment should fit the crime. Is he a threat to public safety? Not now!

2 years ago I was in Colorado. I had a map, GPS and saw private property markers. I was at least 800 yards from where I thought the private property began. Some guys started yelling at me that I was trespassing. I left. I think they were BSing me but if I had taken a deer, transported it to Kali and been caught, I would have technically been guilty of violating the Lacey Act. Felony, 24 year career down the drain, etc for a MISTAKE. I left the area because I can't afford that but would a Lacey Act violation have been appropriate in that situation?

As a peace officer I've seen first hand those that abuse their authority. Usually they make a big deal about busts since they don't do their job on a regular basis. Their testimony can carry lots of weight with a judge though.

Am i soft on crime? NO! But seeing the Criminal Justice @ work scares me almost as much as the criminals sometimes and I work around murders and rapists daily.

As for the individuals that cut somebodies fence, trespassed and intentionally poached, throw the book @ them.
 
I'm with you Horseshoe.
As for me, DK was part of the pulse of this board, that's why this whole ordeal hurts something bad.
 
Outdoordan, quit talking out the side of your mouth. If you really read each post and understood what they were saying, you could take a prozac and tap out. Not one person on any post reguarding DK has said that poachers should walk free. My he!! dude, you can hate the crime and still like the person. The only thing you have spewed forth is hate and bitterness. You really need therapy man. You called BS on one of my posts and I gave you some facts. Still waiting on your response. Call me when you get out of therapy.

Mike
 
>2 years ago I was in
>Colorado. I had a
>map, GPS and saw private
>property markers. I was
>at least 800 yards from
>where I thought the private
>property began. Some guys
>started yelling at me that
>I was trespassing. I
>left. I think they
>were BSing me...

Califelkslayer, don't let those Smith boys push you around! ;-)
 
Horseshoe!The jail time I refer to is county jail-not the state pen,for crying out loud!Poaching is not a felony.How else do you propose to stop it??!!Until the penalty is severe enough,poaching will continue to happen.We're just supposed to stand around and wish it wouldn't happen?I'm telling you right now,there are at least AS MANY,IF NOT MORE,trophy bucks killed illegally as there is legally!Ask any warden!I say take all possesions that were used in the commission of the CRIME(just like dope dealers),and throw the S.O.B.'s in jail for awhile!Otherwise, poaching will continue at the pace it does now!And you say I'm full of sh**!!!???Horseshoe,you are full of horsesh**!!!Basically,you are saying it's okay if poaching stays at the present pace.I say we must stop it.Whatever works!
 
Cabin, they keep guns, ATV's, trucks, ammo, etc from poaching crimes. But they don't keep the evidence? Whatever. Obviously having this debate is like driving in a circle, it won't get anywhere, and I still don't believe it.
 
From my experience making something a felony doesn't stop someone from doing the crime. Generally speaking when people (criminals) are committing the crime they don't think of the consequences. The difference between us and them is that you rationalize your behavior and see that the negatives outweigh the positives. A criminal doesn't think like that, it is what they want to do now, a quick satisfaction without thought of consequences. I have asked numerous criminals why would you risk going to prison for 20 years. They all say they didn't even think about it.

All of us are passionate about wildlife or we wouldn't be debating the facts. Judges and prosecutors are soft on wildlife crimes, their priorities as stated above are person to person crimes, plain and simple. I have seen some atrocities in the courts and believe that the "system" was set up for a simpler life not as society has evolved today.

As the "trophy hunting" craze continues we will all be seeing more and more of this kind of behavior whether we like it or not. The best thing you and I can do is to be the best witnesses and stewards of the wildlife when we are out in the field. I am always watchful for violations and poachers, but they usually aren't there when you and I are there (during seasons).

Rich
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom