Horrible..............

Ever been on the other side? I know someone who was in the exact same position a few years ago. DWR introduced elk to the mountain above his property. He owns the only ponds for water anywhere around, uses them to irrigate his land. After a few years, elk were devastating his alfalfa fields. They would come to water at his ponds, bed down in the brush, then spend the night eating his crops. He worked for couple of years trying to get something resolved with the DWR, asked for help building high fences, asked for increased permits to be issued to hunters and allowed free access to his property... but the DWR was less that responsive.

He shot and killed 7 bulls one year, called the DWR and said come get them and told them to not drive on his fields, pack them out.

Within a couple of weeks he had an agreement with the DWR to help him build a high fence.

All I'm saying is before you go judging what the guy did or didn't do you might want to know the details of the issues he is facing.

Want to control the elk population, shoot the cows. Want to get the DWR's attention, shoot the bulls.

sled_guy
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-25-12 AT 11:05AM (MST)[p]Yep sure have and my family currenly own property in the same County...... I know the details, elk gettin run out several nights a week by the dwr, thousands of dollars every year bein paid out by dwr for feedloss, new fence, new stackyards, new sprinkler lines all paid for by dwr, special cow elk hunt that runs from October to January surrounding his property, and there are plenty other ranchers in the area with more problems than him.

it's not about the elk or deer at all with the guy it's about hating the dwr now animals and sportsman suffer....that's why I said horrible.
 
One of the posts said he runs his cattle on fed land. Well if his is complaining about wildlife being on his land maybe he should take his cattle off our fed land and keep them on his own
 
Doubt the landowner dumped all 7 bulls walking in. Bet he drove his john deere accross his place to get within range then won't allow the wardens access to the dead animals other than by foot....wtf?

I know some landowners are trying to make a good balance but most people who have game on thier place that they Don't want usually still Don't let a guy with a valid tag go put some game on the ground legally. I know a warden and he says most fences they Give away either never get put right or not at all. He got a call one night with the whole "better get over here before I start shooting" so he went over and the fence that was given free was still wound up standing against the haystack.

Do you think a landowner with a bunch of elk in his pivot line would post a message on a site like this or ksl with a "hey if you have a late season cow tag then meet me at mile post ###" wouldn't get any calls to help out? Doubt it. I know a guy here in mt who plants winter wheat to bring the elk on his place do he can get $$$ per cow elk, then wants his depredation money on the spring for his crop loss. Talk about gettin your cake and eating it too.



That's a special feeling, Lloyd"
 
So does this give the right to property/cabin owners on the mountain that cattle graze, to shoot any cattle that wander on their property???



Traditional >>>------->
 
yup, it also makes it open season on all livestock on the mtn. after there exit date in the fall. Curious, who paid for that pivot line? Also curious how this gets played. If you claim the elk are damaging your ground, its the DWR's job to move them, or pick them up after you shoot them, but if you own a CWMU, you own the animals? Which is it, are they the publics animals or the landowners? Name this guy, he is acting not as a public citizen, but as a commericial entity. We can then perhaps contact his hay buyers and cattle buyers, perhaps they won't like doing buisness with this D-bag.


When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
 
Maybe they should just buy his place Sound like a good deal for the DWR. MAYBE the SFW will pony up some money.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
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Just got word sounds like ya need to add some deer to the list after last night.
 
My favorite country singer is Gary Allen. I love his songs about rain, and killing elk. Gary Allen is a great singer, I heard he is goin to tour Marysville this year. I googled my favorite singer, Gary Allen, and was suprised (not really) to see that he takes huge ammounts of farm subsidies. I have also learned that my favorite country singer Gary Allen, has taken plenty of restitution money from the DWR. For some reason my favorite country singer, of songs about rain, loving the pain and so on even has a biologist trying to get together a group of guys to harrass elk(perhaps for his next country video) but he continues to slaughter wildlife. I just wanted to drop in and tell you about how I am a "big fan" of my favorite singer, Gary Allen.

As a side note, sure hope no one is discharging firearms after shooting hours.



When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
 
i had heard about this last year while up on monroe. Rumor was flying around he had shot a great big 7pnt bull.



-Cass
 
Why hasn't this situation recieved any local press? I can smell this situation and I'm over 1,200 miles away.
 
The local paper Richfield Reaper had the article about it this week.This isnt the first time he has done this.
 
The big game board, today,took 5 elk tags out of the draw for the Beaver unit because of this. That's 5 sportsman that don't get tags this year.
 
This is actually pretty common. My brother was a depredation specialist for the DWR a few years back and this happened a lot. I obviously don't know the details of every specific case let alone this one, but he would often get this same kind of call, head out to the property, load up the elk, make as little impact to the farm as possible with his vehicle, then take them elsewhere and take care of them properly. Almost 100% of the time, the farmer called immediately and he was able to save the meat. Land owners have a lot of leeway in this area, it doesn't look fair to the general public and from the sounds of this, this particular guy might be a real piece of work, but it is probably legitimate. I would assume that if he is calling the DWR, he is probably well within his rights and he knows it.

Being a depredation specialist was a tough job. The land owners were always irate and very demanding. Most of his efforts were spent in trying to build relationships with them and they didn't always cooperate. The harder part though for him was the killing. As much as he loves hunting, the killing could get rough. Sometimes it made him sad even though he knew it was necessary, like when he had to put roadkill animals out of their misery, or the time he was able to walk up on a sick and blind spike elk calf to within 5 feet and put it down with a shot right between the eyes, or the time the elk were trapped on the cliffs down by Price and they had to kill them on the cliffs as there was no way to rescue them. They hoped to put them down with one shot and that they would just die on the ledge, but every single one of them fell off the cliffs and he said the sound the bodies made when they hit was one of the sickest sound he ever heard but the silence while they were falling was worse than that.

One case however, was a huge 360 bull that the farmer had only wounded, so he had to track it down and finish it off. It was his biggest elk ever, he couldn't even take pictures with it however, but he did cape it out and turned it over to the division. I think they ended up mounting it in the Vernal office.

You don't even want to know about the bears he had to kill and what they had to do with them.

It is a shame, but it does have to be done.


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Good for the landowner. If the DWR can't or won't help the problem...the owner will. Look at it this way: If someone enters your property to damage it and steal from you, what are you going to do? Call the cops right? When they can't fix the problem, you will most likely take matters into your own hands right?

If this guy is making a living off his farming...he has every right to defend his farm. As for all you morons talkin' smack about shooting livestock on range lands...I hope you all become more sympathetic of someones lively hood.
 
How much do you think the DWR needs to compensate Gary?How many yrs. has he done this? How many depredation cow elk hunters did he tell no to getting on his property?I dont want to get into a pissing contest,just wondering.
 
How many years has the DWR let it drag on, 10 years or more of Elk being shot(all those tags) could brought a pretty good start on the fencing to go around those fields, is that what you are saying Rodroost or are you mad because he told them he has had enough.
If the elk is doing damage to his livelihood, I don't blame him a bit. You think he is in a pissing match with the DWR, You can bet the farm on it. Fence it or buy it is what they are looking at. So do one or the other. BUT it is a DWR problem to keep the elk out of his fields.He has found out that shooting cow and little bulls don't work, so he moving up to the big stuff. I'm sure that will get their attention more then shooting those small bulls.

FENCE IT OR BUY IT.

DWR should buy it and raise monster bulls for the SFW tag holders.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
All I am asking is how much he has been paid throughout the different years that he has been killing the deer and elk while not letting the cow elk hunters in to try to kill the cows and help his problem.
 
Very unfortunate. I can see both sides of the story. The DWR should have the Dedicated hunters go out there and do some type of service project to aid the issue.

Here is the link.

http://www.richfieldreaper.com/news/local/article_8719e546-93cb-11e1-bf3c-001a4bcf887a.html

KINGSTON ? Seven elk, including some bulls, were shot last week in Piute County.
However, the incident was not poaching, according to the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources, but a private property owner exercising his legal right to protect his livelihood.
?He was within his rights,? said Lynn Chamberlain, regional outreach manager for the Utah DWR. He said the elk were removed after a long struggle to keep them from damaging crops of alfalfa and oats.
Chamberlain said the property owner, Gary Allen, had spent hundreds of hours and untold dollars trying to keep the elk from damaging his farm. Fencing and even hazing of the animals didn't work, as they returned season after season.
Allen formally notified the DWR of his intention to remove the animals from his land, according to Chamberlain. After a 72-hour waiting period, he was allowed to shoot the animals.
?If we can't respond within 72 hours, he is within his rights to take the animals,? Chamberlain said.
After the animals had been shot, they were left on the ground until DWR officials were able to remove them.
?That's the way the law reads,? Chamberlain said. He said while private property owners are able to protect their agricultural operations by shooting elk or deer that are creating documented damage, they are not allowed to keep any part of the slain animals.
?It's not something we like to see,? Chamberlain said. He said the case is an extreme one, and not typical.
?These elk, for whatever reason, were particularly persistent,? Chamberlain said. He said many times elk and deer benefit from time spent on private property, but in the Allen case they were causing damage, which had even resulted in mitigation payments in the past.
?He did everything that's required of him,? said Piute County Sheriff Marty Gleave. He said the elk were causing damage every year, and that the state Legislature had cut funding for reimbursement of damage to agricultural operations.
?That money wasn?t based on the actual damage, but on what they want to pay,? Gleave said.
? 2012 The Richfield Reaper. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
 
Well then, If you are out in the area where this guy runs his cattle on public property in your hunting grounds shoot a couple cows because they screwed up your chances at the monster bulls you were hunting!




YOU'RE FAT!! DON'T TRY AND SUGAR COAT IT OR YOU WILL EAT THAT TOO!!
 
This guys is an asshat but the Dwr is even worse! If they knew they had to respond within 72 hours and didn't??? ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?????
I can drive anywhere in the state dozens of times in 72 hours!!! Sounds like a few people need their azzes kicked.


Traditional >>>------->
 
The DWR has 72 hours to respond with a plan. If the land owner does not like the plan he does not have to accept it. Although you can put some blame on the DWR for not acting in the past you cant really blame them for not trying. This is a loop hole in the sysstem that he is taken advantage of.What is real sad is this guy has been dumping some deer since this incident.

I would like to see someone post what they have paid Gary Allen in the past years. I was told that the DWR and the State of Utah has bent over backwards to accomodate him. Anyone know where to find what they have paid him in the past?
 
You can google Gary Allen, Marysville utah. This guy takes a ton of welfare from the government. I havent found the DWR payout but the rest is eye opening.

I contacted the Cattlemens association. Mr Allen dropped out of the association. The gentleman that I talked to pointed out twice that Mr. Allen is difficult and very independent minded.

I contacted the Farm Bureau(yeah I am a great speller). Mr. Keeler told me he has contacted Mr. Allen and that they explained to Mr. Allen how legal or not doesn't matter, he is bringing very bad PR to all ranchers. Mr. Keeler also let it be known that Mr.Allen is very difficult to deal with.

In short these two groups have tried to help out, but both point out that Mr. Allen isn't the greatest guy in the world.



When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
 
LAST EDITED ON May-08-12 AT 12:37PM (MST)[p]OK - here is a question that some of you may be uncomfortable answering.

Why is it unethical for this landowner to kill these elk, who according to the Sheriff, is well within his rights to do so because they are destroying his crops and he has followed the correct procedures and the DWR hasn't responded within the 72 hour window to kill them, yet it is ethical, in many of your opinions, for a rancher (or any hunter) to illegally and clandestinely (SSS!) to kill a pack of wolves destroying his cattle (or elk and deer populations)?

Now, don't go calling me a wolf-lover because that is not my point, all I am saying is this: substitutue the word "elk" for "wolves" and the word "crops" for "cattle" and half of you who are complaining would be clapping.

Also - don't get me wrong on the flip side of the argument either, I am not advocating for the rancher. I am just making a simple observation for the sake of argument, that many of you have not thought this through all the way and are responding emotionally rather than rationally.


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I do know if it was my livelihood, There wouldn't be one left standing, Sorry Boys BUT my family needs and welfare comes before some elk or deer. His land needs to be protected and he using the means he has.WHY HAVEN"T THE DWR FENCED THIS OFF. Money???. Selling Monster(Spider) bull tags can raise all the money they might need.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
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if he gets one dime, its one to many, take that gov money away .see how long he still is a want to be rancher,,,,
 
>LAST EDITED ON May-08-12
>AT 12:37?PM (MST)

>
>OK - here is a question
>that some of you may
>be uncomfortable answering.
>
>Why is it unethical for this
>landowner to kill these elk,
>who according to the Sheriff,
>is well within his rights
>to do so because they
>are destroying his crops and
>he has followed the correct
>procedures and the DWR hasn't
>responded within the 72 hour
>window to kill them, yet
>it is ethical, in many
>of your opinions, for a
>rancher (or any hunter) to
>illegally and clandestinely (SSS!) to
>kill a pack of wolves
>destroying his cattle (or elk
>and deer populations)?
>
>Now, don't go calling me a
>wolf-lover because that is not
>my point, all I am
>saying is this: substitutue the
>word "elk" for "wolves" and
>the word "crops" for "cattle"
>and half of you who
>are complaining would be clapping.
>
>
>Also - don't get me wrong
>on the flip side of
>the argument either, I
>am not advocating for the
>rancher. I am just making
>a simple observation for the
>sake of argument, that many
>of you have not thought
>this through all the way
>and are responding emotionally rather
>than rationally.
>
>
>HOOK 'EM!
>_______________________________________
>
>Since I am frequently asked about
>my religion on this site
>and others, I have created
>a profile that explains my
>beliefs. If you are interested
>in finding out more about
>my faith, please visit the
>link below:
>
>http://mormon.org/me/6RNQ/

Roy, if i may answer this the way i see it.
Although your point was gearing towards hypocrisy between killing elk and wolves, the wolves are a predator that no one really wants, elk are a very limited resource that some wait a lifetime to draw a tag for.
 
Here's the thing that bothers me the most: How many of you Trophy Hunter's (myself included) eat only wild game meat...3 meals a day? Without farmers crops, no one would have anything in the kitchen pantry. Most everyone is complaining about their once-in-a-lifetime tag... When that equates to nothing more than a hobby. We are all dependant on what farmers and ranchers produce. Unless you are an Inuit, I highly doubt modern day hunting is a matter of sustaining a family (unless you are a guide/outfitter), it's a hobby, recreation.

This talk of shooting livestock shows your intelligence level.
 
Excellent point SneakAttack - there is a lot of livestock killed every year by idiots like this. Really, talk like this has no place in any intelligent conversation about wildlife resource management. If I were this rancher, I would archive this thread and the IP and user info of all those that mentioned killing livestock as potential evidence in case anything does happen.

Slammy, hey - I can show you several hairy-legged women who DO want those wolves there! LOL. Good point, and I agree, it is just that there is such a double standard when it comes to ethics when there doesn't need to be. The law is the law, obey the law, let others obey it and live with it. We all can't get exactly what we want all the time. It is a tragic situation all around.


HOOK 'EM!
_______________________________________

Since I am frequently asked about my religion on this site and others, I have created a profile that explains my beliefs. If you are interested in finding out more about my faith, please visit the link below:

http://mormon.org/me/6RNQ/
 

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