I was just looking to see when they post results and it says they will not give a list of successful applicants, just able to check your own. Apparently there is a new law restricting it. I know other states are like this but I hate the idea. I liked reading thru the names to see who drew what. What do you guys think about this. What is it hurting to post the results?
utah dwr not posting draw results
- Thread starter smoktem
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C
ClorideRUS
Guest
Smoke,
Thought about that one too. I suspect people that draw LE tags are sick of the phone calls from the booking agents and guide services. Kinda miss cheering for the lucky bastages that draw as well.
RUS
Thought about that one too. I suspect people that draw LE tags are sick of the phone calls from the booking agents and guide services. Kinda miss cheering for the lucky bastages that draw as well.
RUS
M
MortgageMan
Guest
Apparantly the people that drew the good tags were getting bombarded by guides and outfitters. I think I read that on here but don't quote me on that. Needless to say I haven't been one of those lucky enough to get bombarded by guides. IMO who cares if you get bombarded by guides once every twenty plus years.
K
ktc
Guest
It has nothing to do with the phone calls. It has everything to do with making public private information. I kind of like seeing who drew, but in a world where protecting information is critical, I see the need.
I do not like my information sold or advertised to anyone so I guess this is no different.
I do not like my information sold or advertised to anyone so I guess this is no different.
littlebighorn
Long Time Member
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Well, it makes me a whole lot more productive at the office the next few days because I won't be plowing through thousands of names looking for someone I know!
Dang--they are taking away all of my fun!
Dang--they are taking away all of my fun!
T
thebuckstopshere
Guest
In this day and age, posting someones name is as good as giving anyone who wants it a free ticket to your home. Ever wonder why you get mail regarding taxidermy just by drawing a general tag?
I would rather not open the door one morning to find a deranged anti-hunter had spray painted my garage. . . etc. etc.
I used to look at everyone that drew, and that is why I am glad they changed it, so nobody knows when I draw.
Just my .02.
I would rather not open the door one morning to find a deranged anti-hunter had spray painted my garage. . . etc. etc.
I used to look at everyone that drew, and that is why I am glad they changed it, so nobody knows when I draw.
Just my .02.
R
Russ
Guest
Now I can just tell everyone I drew and hunt every year. No one would know the difference.
T
thebuckstopshere
Guest
Don't you think that would make people all the more suspicious?
R
Russ
Guest
I am just making a point, that if the names are out there and you know who draws a tag, then you can to a point help police a problem like that occurring. If I said I had a big bull tag and pulled in the first day of the elk hunt with a big 6 point, would you know the difference?? Next question is, If you request the records of who drew, would the state have to give them to you?? I know you hear of the newspapers doing that all the time. I am not sure just wondering. I enjoy seeing who has the tags and what town or even county they are from. It gives you an idea of the people putting in for these units.
antlerless
New Member
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well i heard for forty bucks the dwr would sell you a copy of the results with names and all anyone else heard that. and how hard is it to tell a guide no!!
"you can't fix stupid"
"you can't fix stupid"
MulePacker
Active Member
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To answer a few questions. Yes this information is public, if requested it must be provided. The DWR can charge to cover costs of printing, paper etc., I do not know of a set cost or if they charge for an e-mailed version. The laws or restrictions they claim to be recent are part of the GRAMA act which has been in place since the early 1990's. I do not know why the division decided to enforce the act recently but it has made many skeptical. As you can see it will not necessarily stop the mailings if someone wants it bad enough.
The DWR will not sell the lists. Maybe a news agency could get a copy, but not the general public. I talked with the DWR public records person and she said that a person could request a copy, then she would deny the request, then you could appeal and go before a Board which would decide if you get a copy.
I liked being able to look thru the list and see who is hunting around our ranch. People who are paranoid about having someone contact them should just look up their number on QWest, the political party web sites or even the County Recorders office. There are many ways to find one's information and alot more detailed than the DWR list. Aren't these public animals anyway and shouldn't the public be able to know who is hunting our animals?
I liked being able to look thru the list and see who is hunting around our ranch. People who are paranoid about having someone contact them should just look up their number on QWest, the political party web sites or even the County Recorders office. There are many ways to find one's information and alot more detailed than the DWR list. Aren't these public animals anyway and shouldn't the public be able to know who is hunting our animals?
grizzmoose
Very Active Member
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Why do you care who is hunting the animals? You will get the data as to how many are residents and how many are non-residents. You will even get how many drew with X amount of points. Im sure most people are 'just curious' as to who got tags, but I see no real justification why anybody other than a DWR officer NEEDS to know who it is. Its certainly fun to scan the names and hope to see friends or family, but that is no real reason to have the names published.
AndymanSavage
Very Active Member
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If I drew a tag and some self appointed "fish cop" asked to see my tag or for my name they would get a one-finger salute and that's it. What do you do, run around the pahvant checking names with your list? Poachers will poach, hunters will hunt, publishing a list won't change that. If you see something fishy, report it. You don't need to know who has tags. Just my opinion.
Andy
Andy
MulePacker
Active Member
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Packout,
PM me who told you they would deny the request. I currently have my GRAMA request submitted and have not heard one way or the other. The DWR has ten days to respond with a denial they must site reason of denial, this information does not fit requirements for denial as far as I can tell. The criteria must be met in order to deny the request, she can't just do it. For some this is trivial information for others it may benefit them for others it is entertainment. For me it is America, public information is just that public. Each year Utah takes one more step in making hunting an elitist endeavor IMO. I believe it is in the best interest of the sportsman to have knowledge of what a public agency is doing. An example: SITLA enough said.
PM me who told you they would deny the request. I currently have my GRAMA request submitted and have not heard one way or the other. The DWR has ten days to respond with a denial they must site reason of denial, this information does not fit requirements for denial as far as I can tell. The criteria must be met in order to deny the request, she can't just do it. For some this is trivial information for others it may benefit them for others it is entertainment. For me it is America, public information is just that public. Each year Utah takes one more step in making hunting an elitist endeavor IMO. I believe it is in the best interest of the sportsman to have knowledge of what a public agency is doing. An example: SITLA enough said.
antlerless
New Member
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mule packer let us know what you find out. i was just curious about the 40 dollar thing i heard that from a guide who was planning on buying a list from them. so i was just wondering their reasons behind it if people can get a list why not post them? so let us know if you get a list or what i hope it's not just a money making deal, cuz they already took 280$ from me for the LE bugling cow tag i got.
"you can't fix stupid"
"you can't fix stupid"
K
ktc
Guest
mp,
I still say private. Who's business, besides mine, is it if I draw or not?
Why are you so insistent that this is public? You may be right, but I doubt it.
I still say private. Who's business, besides mine, is it if I draw or not?
Why are you so insistent that this is public? You may be right, but I doubt it.
I think the results should be public, Even if it was a first name with a last name enitial, I think that it opens the door for people to do illegal things, (I heard) that the dwr is tired of negative feed back about who drew tags, or maybe they dont want people to know how many extra tags were given this year until after the seasons end, Just a thought, as for guides bothering people, there is not enough guides in utah to bother someone, It is like junk mail if you are not interested dont open it.....Just my thoughts
woodruffhunter
Long Time Member
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LAST EDITED ON Apr-28-07 AT 10:57AM (MST)[p]This thread is hilarious. I think its a good thing they are
keeping it private. I hardly believe anyone wants a list in
order to "police" their hunting area. If someone other than
an officer asks me personal information while I am hunting
I will just take Andyman's advice.
I doubt someone who draws the Pahvant wants people calling
them to solicite business.
keeping it private. I hardly believe anyone wants a list in
order to "police" their hunting area. If someone other than
an officer asks me personal information while I am hunting
I will just take Andyman's advice.
I doubt someone who draws the Pahvant wants people calling
them to solicite business.
H
HuntingMachine
Guest
I think they are hiding the number of tags they are giving so they can sell more tags that we don't know about to the big buyers.
Just my thoughts.
Just my thoughts.
Here in Colo the CDOW used to have the same lists. Now there is a place on your application that asks whether you would allow access this info to the public.
It is a great way to keep track of who's drawing what tags and also contacting past hunters who drew tough draw tags. This was a great research tool but it seems like more and more states are getting away from this since there is probably some shadey stuff plus "harassment" going on. I can see why guides and outfitters would like access to this information because they would have direct contact with potential clients.
I believe Garth has some of this same info available to his subscribers but subscribers offer this info. I'm not sure if it is worth $100 for the magazine but some guys think it is definitely worth it. I know it really wouldn't be in the best interest to me or any of my hunting buddies to broadcast units in Garth's newsletter (or elsewhere) because it would only make it that much tougher for my family and friends to draw!
It is a great way to keep track of who's drawing what tags and also contacting past hunters who drew tough draw tags. This was a great research tool but it seems like more and more states are getting away from this since there is probably some shadey stuff plus "harassment" going on. I can see why guides and outfitters would like access to this information because they would have direct contact with potential clients.
I believe Garth has some of this same info available to his subscribers but subscribers offer this info. I'm not sure if it is worth $100 for the magazine but some guys think it is definitely worth it. I know it really wouldn't be in the best interest to me or any of my hunting buddies to broadcast units in Garth's newsletter (or elsewhere) because it would only make it that much tougher for my family and friends to draw!
K
ktc
Guest
It is not like I am against other hunters knowing who drew, I just hate the thought of someone using the information for non-hunting means. For example, knowing if you will be out of town. Like was mentioned, last year, I got one phone call and less than 5 taxidermy and guide post cards. No big deal.
I can see the benefit of knowing who will be on the unit, scouting info, and potential poaching deterent. I would also like to know what mp comes up with and what the GRAMA board decides. I just think it will be kept private and that it is private?
I can see the benefit of knowing who will be on the unit, scouting info, and potential poaching deterent. I would also like to know what mp comes up with and what the GRAMA board decides. I just think it will be kept private and that it is private?
MulePacker
Active Member
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IMO this is know different than a state contract job. Many people bid or applied to receive a state awarded permit. That is public record. I will let you know where it goes. I believe that the state would be unwise not to allow access to a record for drawing of public permits that requires an application fee and is held out of state. I also can not find where these records are protected under the GRAMA act. That does not mean they have to post but public acces must be allowed. I would also like to know who the outfitter is that said they were for sale.
There is a difference between records which implicate and records of a public draw.
Packout,
Thanks for the pm I have talked with the lady and yes she is very nice. I also believe she is in a hard spot. She has probably been trained to handle requests in this way rather than someone taken the time to train her what can and can't be shared.
There is a difference between records which implicate and records of a public draw.
Packout,
Thanks for the pm I have talked with the lady and yes she is very nice. I also believe she is in a hard spot. She has probably been trained to handle requests in this way rather than someone taken the time to train her what can and can't be shared.
i say keep it private. maybe post some sort of hunter ID or something (without being the SSN)
why post someones name? tons of junk mail (with a name, they will find your address), phone calls, etc...
if your suspicious of "shady" business with agency, a list of names wont do anything. if they are going through the trouble of doing "shady" things, what would stop them from just listing fake names (or similar)?? what next we need the full name address, DOB, and contact info so we can all investigate on our own that nothing fishy is going on?
give me a break. keep it private.
why post someones name? tons of junk mail (with a name, they will find your address), phone calls, etc...
if your suspicious of "shady" business with agency, a list of names wont do anything. if they are going through the trouble of doing "shady" things, what would stop them from just listing fake names (or similar)?? what next we need the full name address, DOB, and contact info so we can all investigate on our own that nothing fishy is going on?
give me a break. keep it private.
MulePacker
Active Member
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I am not afraid of shady business at all. It may be from the years I spent in the media, it may be because I am cynical or you may think of a thousand other reasons. But as I stated before I simply believe this is public record and should be viewable. I don't care if it is posted, I don't care to see protected personal information, I don't care to do anything with it. I do care that a public record is public. Recipient and tag. There is alot of irony in the DWR and GRAMA information. Until I informed them of the listing of dedicated hunters and protected information it was still on the website (approx. 1 month ago) As of a few days ago you could still see recipients of dedicated LE permits for the past few years, maybe it is still there. Now they have listed COR numbers for dedicated hunters to view there info. I am not sure (lookin into it) but I believe a government assigned number such as a COR would be protected.
I don't have time today to do some research but to bring you up to date. I picked my mail up yesterday and did recieve a denial for my GRAMA request. It cites a clause under which it was denied, I will review the clause if it does not fit my request I will go through the appeal process.
I don't have time today to do some research but to bring you up to date. I picked my mail up yesterday and did recieve a denial for my GRAMA request. It cites a clause under which it was denied, I will review the clause if it does not fit my request I will go through the appeal process.
swbuckmaster
Long Time Member
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The dwr has been busted before for giving out tags to buddies and that is why we have the drawing process done in NV. If they dont show names they can hide who draws the tags alot eaysier.
MulePacker
Active Member
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It appears the records are inaccesible by the GRAMA act UCA 63-2-302 (1)(j) which reads:
(j) a record that:
(i) contains information about an individual;
(ii) is voluntarily provided by the individual; and
(iii) goes into an electronic database that:
(A) is designated by and administered under the authority of the Chief Information Officer; and
(B) acts as a repository of information about the individual that can be electronically retrieved and used to facilitate the individual's online interaction with a state agency;
They also cited a couple other sections which did not apply as I was not asking for more information than name and tag.
It appears it would take changing the code as the DWR does not have any specifics such as other DNR divisions do for releasing recors of public interest. I would be interested to find out if anyone does end up with the records such as the outfitter mentioned above.
(j) a record that:
(i) contains information about an individual;
(ii) is voluntarily provided by the individual; and
(iii) goes into an electronic database that:
(A) is designated by and administered under the authority of the Chief Information Officer; and
(B) acts as a repository of information about the individual that can be electronically retrieved and used to facilitate the individual's online interaction with a state agency;
They also cited a couple other sections which did not apply as I was not asking for more information than name and tag.
It appears it would take changing the code as the DWR does not have any specifics such as other DNR divisions do for releasing recors of public interest. I would be interested to find out if anyone does end up with the records such as the outfitter mentioned above.
