I have only been able to go out west twice so I do not get on here much.I do hunt whitetails all the time on my farm.My question is,how old does a 400 bull have to be ? Also are they as tough to find as a 180 plus whitetail ? I would think some of the big multi-thousand acre ranches would have a couple or so vs the 200-500 acre dairy farms in the east that may get one if they can keep all the smaller ones from being shot. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Ed
How old & how common is a 400 bull
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AZStickman
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400" Elk are not as common as you might think after cruising the internet forums. Even in the states with the best genetics and habitat for producing big racks they are a special class of critter. You won't find them behind every tree or on every multi thousand acre ranch..... Terry
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Foxskinner
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I agree that they are not very common at all. Some years you never hear of a 400 class bull taken and then other years maybe 2-3. I think Utah had 6 one year but am not totally sure. Lots of things have to go right for it to happen. The bull first of all has to have the genes, then the age, then the right feed and habitat. Big bulls don't last too long when they are found. If a bull gets above 350 there are always people trying to kill it. A bull has to be super elusive and/or lucky to survive long enough to get that big. I know of 2 Utah bulls so far that have hit the dirt this year and they were super hard to kill. The guide services out here put in tons of time and man power to find 370+ bulls for clients so a 400 class is a true diamond in the rough.
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AZStickman
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Could be, although I really don't see many (any) 400 class Bulls on TV........ Terry
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ZIGGER
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....and believe it or not, most internet 400's fall far short when an official tape gets stretched on them.
In addition to the genetics, habitat, etc... I expect a bull will generally need to at least hit 7 or 8 years of age to reach its potential. Maybe a bit older in some cases. There are a few bulls that old out there, but many don't have the other variables to ever reach 400".
ARROWHNTR
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I think the difficulty in finding a 400" free ranging bull is more difficult then finding a 200" whitetail and a better example may be finding a 200" whitetail prior to the days of food plots, nutritional suplements and intense quality management.
Just like in whitetails it takes a very unique set of circumstances for a bull to reach 400, #1 probobly being genetics, #2 feed and water conditions and #3 age of the bull.
Just like in whitetails it takes a very unique set of circumstances for a bull to reach 400, #1 probobly being genetics, #2 feed and water conditions and #3 age of the bull.
littlebighorn
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Exactly!
There are plenty of 400" bulls in high fenced elk farms, but finding one in the wild...well that is priceless!
Age...I saw a 4 year old "farm bull" that was 400. The breeder said his semen was worth thousands per shot! But a wild bull probably needs many more years to get that big.
There are plenty of 400" bulls in high fenced elk farms, but finding one in the wild...well that is priceless!
Age...I saw a 4 year old "farm bull" that was 400. The breeder said his semen was worth thousands per shot! But a wild bull probably needs many more years to get that big.
>Exactly!
>There are plenty of 400" bulls
>in high fenced elk farms,
>but finding one in the
>wild...well that is priceless!
>Age...I saw a 4 year old
>"farm bull" that was 400.
> The breeder said his
>semen was worth thousands per
>shot! But a
>wild bull probably needs many
>more years to get that
>big.
I was going to say the same thing about a 4 year old 400" farm raised bull. He was on a elk farm near park city. I don't think the farm is there anymore though, I guess the asians weren't making as many boner pills to keep it running.
>There are plenty of 400" bulls
>in high fenced elk farms,
>but finding one in the
>wild...well that is priceless!
>Age...I saw a 4 year old
>"farm bull" that was 400.
> The breeder said his
>semen was worth thousands per
>shot! But a
>wild bull probably needs many
>more years to get that
>big.
I was going to say the same thing about a 4 year old 400" farm raised bull. He was on a elk farm near park city. I don't think the farm is there anymore though, I guess the asians weren't making as many boner pills to keep it running.
elkantlers
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The majority of wild bull elk, even if they are in their prime with the best feed, will never see 400".
F
Farms
Guest
A 230" whitey is comparable to a 400" bull to me. There is what, 15 to 20 times more whiteys than elk.
How many 200" plus whiteys get shot a year in Iowa, Ohio, Illinois, and Canada alone? Probably more that a guy thinks
How many 200" plus whiteys get shot a year in Iowa, Ohio, Illinois, and Canada alone? Probably more that a guy thinks
DonVathome
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I would day a 400" bull = 200" whitetail for sure.
Age I would guess at 7-1/2 to 9-1/2 downhill after that.
There are 20x the 400" bulls on the hoof vs measured (meaning lots of guys see bulls they call 400 that are 370)!
Age I would guess at 7-1/2 to 9-1/2 downhill after that.
There are 20x the 400" bulls on the hoof vs measured (meaning lots of guys see bulls they call 400 that are 370)!
elkassassin
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>....and believe it or not, most
>internet 400's fall far short
>when an official tape gets
>stretched on them.
ZIGGER!
Your Measuring Tape is kinda like your Pecker!
Shorter than most others!
How many people that brought 200"+ Bucks & 380"+ Bulls to you to be Measured have walked away/left in a Piss Poor Mood?
Wisz was a Hell of a Sport this year even if He did tell the UDWR to F-Off during the Phone Call!
15" Bases?
30" 5ths?
Missing 450" Bull!
The next 4 years is Slicks Fault,again,GEEZUS!
GOOD GAWD A MIGHTY!
>internet 400's fall far short
>when an official tape gets
>stretched on them.
ZIGGER!
Your Measuring Tape is kinda like your Pecker!
Shorter than most others!
How many people that brought 200"+ Bucks & 380"+ Bulls to you to be Measured have walked away/left in a Piss Poor Mood?
Wisz was a Hell of a Sport this year even if He did tell the UDWR to F-Off during the Phone Call!
15" Bases?
30" 5ths?
Missing 450" Bull!
The next 4 years is Slicks Fault,again,GEEZUS!
GOOD GAWD A MIGHTY!
DownThePipe
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Here in Idaho, a guy hunting with a hired guide, paying 5-6k for everything, with an over the counter bull tag in a wilderness area or just a general area that is harder to access, ought to be ready to shoot any bull that has 6 points on a side, or any 5 point bull that is 260 and greater. You just can't expect to have the situation line up perfectly when you only have 7 days to hunt. Not saying that better bulls aren't out there, you just have to understand that getting within range of a good bull is tough. If you are in a controlled hunt unit, and are paying 7-10k, you can expect to hold out for a 6 point bull measuring 300. But, you might go home empty handed if you pass on a 285 bull on day 4 of a 7 day hunt.
I think you can expect to shoot a 300+ bull in other states if you are paying 7-10k just because guiding in Idaho is different than a lot of flatter, easier accessible areas. My personal opinion is that the more beautiful the country is i.e. steep and magnificent, the less chance you'll shoot a big bull. You have to weigh the trade off. I personally don't get as much of a kick out of the flatter country for elk.
I think you can expect to shoot a 300+ bull in other states if you are paying 7-10k just because guiding in Idaho is different than a lot of flatter, easier accessible areas. My personal opinion is that the more beautiful the country is i.e. steep and magnificent, the less chance you'll shoot a big bull. You have to weigh the trade off. I personally don't get as much of a kick out of the flatter country for elk.
Lv2hnt
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As already mentioned, a 400 in. bull will be probably be about 8.5 years old (hard pressed to find one a year younger, I'd think). I could be wrong, but I don't even think any of the best Az. guides have ever personally killed a 400-in. bull here in Arizona on public land. And very few who've had a hunter put a tag to one. I've only eye-balled, at very close range, one on the hoof for sure (it was later measured), and one other I'm pretty sure was. There are other guys here in-state, though, that a spend a LOT of time scouting --- the big boys, few as they are, can't hide forever ...
Lv2hnt
"Every man dies --- not every man really lives."
Lv2hnt
"Every man dies --- not every man really lives."
B
bigeasygator
Guest
>So a more reasonable bull on
>a guided hunt is in
>the 250-300 class or maybe
>a bit more ?
>Ed
Depends what unit and where you're hunting. I've hunted on units where I've passed up loads of 300" bulls cause I knew the potential that was there. I've also put my tag on the first legal branch antlered bull I saw in other units. Point being, what's "reasonable" varies tremendously by where you're hunting (just like I wouldn't pass on a 120" whitetail in the state of Florida, whereas I probably would in Iowa).
Looking at the record books can give you a feel as to how this stuff compares. I tend to think that a 400" bull is like a 200" (or probably more like a 220") whitetail if talking gross scores. To me, a gross 300" elk is like a gross 120" whitetail or so. The P&Y minimums for typical elk and whitetail are 265" and 125" respectively (I'd say a 265" elk is probably more like a 100" whitetail personally). B&C minimums are 360" for elk and 160" for whitetail.
That should give you some idea of how "much" of a trophy you have. Again, what is "reasonable" depends more on where you are than anything in my mind.
>a guided hunt is in
>the 250-300 class or maybe
>a bit more ?
>Ed
Depends what unit and where you're hunting. I've hunted on units where I've passed up loads of 300" bulls cause I knew the potential that was there. I've also put my tag on the first legal branch antlered bull I saw in other units. Point being, what's "reasonable" varies tremendously by where you're hunting (just like I wouldn't pass on a 120" whitetail in the state of Florida, whereas I probably would in Iowa).
Looking at the record books can give you a feel as to how this stuff compares. I tend to think that a 400" bull is like a 200" (or probably more like a 220") whitetail if talking gross scores. To me, a gross 300" elk is like a gross 120" whitetail or so. The P&Y minimums for typical elk and whitetail are 265" and 125" respectively (I'd say a 265" elk is probably more like a 100" whitetail personally). B&C minimums are 360" for elk and 160" for whitetail.
That should give you some idea of how "much" of a trophy you have. Again, what is "reasonable" depends more on where you are than anything in my mind.
